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PTSideshow
06-02-2008, 07:53 AM
Here is something new in the way of cutting torches, At least new to most of the welding community. It is becoming the #1 preferred rescue torch by the Firedepts and home land security. Take a look at the vid's dragging the light torch thru a pan of sand is impressive in it self
http://www.petrogen.com/ US company
http://www.petrolwin.com/products.asp another company
http://www.pr9.net/business/trade/3492february.html a paper on the fuel gas vs gasoline

torker
06-02-2008, 10:19 AM
PT, I've heard of them torches for years but have never seen one. Pretty impressive specs though.

Dawai
06-02-2008, 11:49 AM
Only thing that worries me is it says there is no popback valve.. and a hand pump there on the tank.. meaning it is a charged air-gasoline tank. A bomb.

Vapor explodes.. once it empties itself what happens? do you depend on a check valve of some kind there on the tank? will it get a flake of rust in it?

Saw a nice explosion once, two electricians were using a gasoline generator and a cutting torch in a platform lift.. the gas tank on the just emptied generator exploded. Both boys were burned.. I told them to take the generator out of the lift before. (they didn't have a good place to stand with it in there) all one kept saying was he was going to be in trouble about his burned shirt. he got a ride in a ambulance where they cut his shirt off.


I'm all for cheaper thou.. THE argon is $85 a tank now too.

lazlo
06-02-2008, 12:13 PM
http://www.pr9.net/business/trade/3492february.html a paper on the fuel gas vs gasoline

""oPetrol cutting torch cuts everything an acetylene torch cuts and has all the strength of an acetylene cutting torch in performance. It cuts fast and clean. The heat affected zone is very smaller compared to acetylene cut. On top of it, oPetrol torch cuts multiple layers through air gaps, dust and dirt."

At first glance, this looks like an ordinary OA cutting torch that atomizes gasoline as replacement for acetylene. But on an OA torch, it's the oxygen that's doing the cutting -- the acetylene just heats the metal to the oxidizing temperature.

So how does the oPetrol torch cut through air gaps? When you cut through multiple plates with an OA torch, it will blow back on you and shower you with hot slag, which is why bank safes are laminated.

Also, if this system works on cutting torches, would the atomized gasoline work on a welding torch?

barts
06-02-2008, 12:50 PM
Only thing that worries me is it says there is no popback valve.. and a hand pump there on the tank.. meaning it is a charged air-gasoline tank. A bomb.

I'd guess there's a few PSI in the tank to move the gasoline to the torch...
the same system is used in gasoline blow torches and camping stoves.

Keep the sparks out, and you're fine.

- Bart

Dawai
06-02-2008, 02:05 PM
<quote> Keep the sparks out, and you're fine.</quote>

I've had personal luck problems ever since I worked next to "Murphy North Carolina".. I met Murphy's law.. There is a hydro plant out there in the boon docks. Nottley Dam.. Everthing that could go wrong there did.

If it can happen.. it will to me..

Yeah, yesterday when I set my wrecker on fire, I pushed it out of the shop (7000lbs), when I turned around to fight the fire on a creeper with pooled gasoline on it, the truck bumped me in the butt as it rolled back into the shop.
A tiny burr on the brass fitting in the $500 carburetor. NOW, it's fine.. except for the burned Metalmeet shirt I put it out with.. I'm lucky, the shirt was soaked with sweat.. it didn't blaze up..

I know Murphy's law personally..

PTSideshow
06-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Only thing that worries me is it says there is no popback valve.. and a hand pump there on the tank.. meaning it is a charged air-gasoline tank. A bomb.

Vapor explodes.. once it empties itself what happens? do you depend on a check valve of some kind there on the tank? will it get a flake of rust in it?


well only info I have is from the web site and their description.The gas isn't atomized till the end of the torch tip when it leaves. So it is liquid in the hose, and torch. I figure if any one would be paranoid about the the gas it would be Fire depts. But the government reports show that it is what it claims.

oPetrol cutting torch cuts everything an acetylene torch cuts and has all the strength of an acetylene cutting torch in performance. It cuts fast and clean. The heat affected zone is very smaller compared to acetylene cut. On top of it, oPetrol torch cuts multiple layers through air gaps, dust and dirt."
My under standing is this brand (oPetrol) is a reworked oxy propane torch that why it claims it can be used for welding.

My understanding is that acetylene is the only gas that burns with a neutral flame that is required for proper welding chemistry.
These burn with the oxidizing flame and burn the steel to increase the temperature and that what can make it burn thru
the air gaps and such thick material. It works best on ferrous materials steel then iron. It will work on the non ferrous but not at the highest rates.
The video's and reports are short but interesting.:D

PTSideshow
06-02-2008, 06:49 PM
And while we are at discussing other type cutting equipment this one is for all you tactical/underwater machinists/welders.
http://www.magnumusa.com/
A back pack oxygen lance cutter for all your black ops work:D
It is pretty cool the video sucks but they must think it lends an air of the Bond, James Bond world;)

steverice
06-02-2008, 07:09 PM
Seems to me that gasoline wouldnt burn very clean, and could leave alot of carbon behind.

PTSideshow
06-02-2008, 07:55 PM
At the temperatures you would be talking about it would burn cleaner and little or no slag, or air quality problems with the amount of oxygen and the fact that it burning up the steel it is cutting thru.
The biggest reason I would say this new version of the gasoline torch is little know is that most welding supply shops are in the biz of selling tanked consumables welding/cutting gases so they wouldn't want to have a torch that only depends on them for one item.

tryp
06-02-2008, 10:51 PM
I'm sceptical when I see a website with that much bunk and flash. Sure it works, why wouldn't it. As soon as you get enough heat into the steel to start oxidizing it, the stream of oxygen will sustain it. There are cutting torches out there that use a spark to start and O2 to do the cutting with no fuel.

As far as it cutting through air gaps and contaminants, I believe that when I see it, there is no reason that it cuts any better than an acetylene torch.

Acetylene is used for a reason, it has an extremely high adiabatic heat of combustion. It burns so quickly and completly compared to other fuels sometimes you need the quick concentrated heat from an acetylene torch.

Any oxy fuel torch can be adjusted to burn with a reducing oxidizing or a neutral flame btw.

tattoomike68
06-02-2008, 11:28 PM
It looks impressive to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWAnv3r0CSw

http://www.youtube.com/v/YWAnv3r0CSw&hl=en

I must admit a pressurized can of gasoline sitting close by a torch does sound scarry

radish1us
06-03-2008, 08:36 AM
Well, after watching that video, either they can tell whopping great lies and have rigged up some way to fool the camera, if they have done neither, then that thingy can sure beat the heck out of using acetylene.
As for jumping air gaps, I think that myth is totally dispelled, as it can be done with this stuff and NO slag left behind either.
I personally like that idea, as I'm just sick and tired of using the man killer 9 inch angle grinder, dunno why the boss always says to me to clean it up.

Occasionally the snake oil merchants have to be believed, until somebody proves that video wrong, then it aint no snake oil that lot is selling.

Think they have convinced me, now how to I get one of them thingies over here, down under.

tryp
06-03-2008, 09:44 PM
There are things unaccounted for in the video, like the nozzle sizes, and the oxygen pressure/consumption. It uses less O2 than propane, but they say nothing about oxy/acetylene. They could be using a larger tip and higher pressures(and a tip that is designed for higher pressure). So its cheaper, and lighter, great for emergency recovery services (yay disaster capitalism) I'd bet that thing blows through the tank of fuel and O2 alot faster than you could burn through a tank of C2H2, which accounts for the cutting speed, but since gas is cheaper per unit energy it makes sense to crank it up.

However until I see the acetylene business crashing and these in every maintenance shop I feel that there are advantages to the higher heat available from an acetylene torch.

Performance wise I've seen guys with acetylene torches do everything they show in the video even with cleaner cuts on the thick stuff, except the 1/2 inch gap, but I'd bet a skilled operator could do that, it aint magic. And whats with the box of sand, are they trying to say its safer to put the torch out in a box of sand if it is gasoline?

jstinem
06-03-2008, 10:38 PM
The price I could find of the thing was $1495.99 for the torch, 2 hoses and the Gas tank. That seems a little steep, doesn't it? would the start up cost be bit less?
Joe

PTSideshow
06-03-2008, 11:06 PM
There are things unaccounted for in the video, like the nozzle sizes, and the oxygen pressure/consumption. It uses less O2 than propane, but they say nothing about oxy/acetylene. They could be using a larger tip and higher pressures(and a tip that is designed for higher pressure). So its cheaper, and lighter, great for emergency recovery services (yay disaster capitalism) I'd bet that thing blows through the tank of fuel and O2 alot faster than you could burn through a tank of C2H2, which accounts for the cutting speed, but since gas is cheaper per unit energy it makes sense to crank it up.

However until I see the acetylene business crashing and these in every maintenance shop I feel that there are advantages to the higher heat available from an acetylene torch.

Performance wise I've seen guys with acetylene torches do everything they show in the video even with cleaner cuts on the thick stuff, except the 1/2 inch gap, but I'd bet a skilled operator could do that, it aint magic. And whats with the box of sand, are they trying to say its safer to put the torch out in a box of sand if it is gasoline?
I suggest you go to their web site and check out the FAQ's
http://www.petrogen.com/page.asp?id=35
It doesn't put out the flame in the sand box. Its still light when they pull it out. The videos and other information.
It gives the oxygen use.

wierdscience
06-04-2008, 02:12 AM
The local scrapyard uses them.They are cheaper than propane or act.They do cut faster than propane,but it's not much cheaper since propane is $2.25/gallon as compared to $3.85 for gasoline.

Realise here though that the oxygen is doing all the cutting,the fuel being used matters not so long as it developes sufficent pre-heat to get the cut started.Diesel even burnt motor oil could be used if the ignition system where figured out.

The 1/2 air gap and the laminated cuts are nothing,so long as all edges are pre-heated to critical temps you can burn them with O/A,O/P without much trouble.

Dawai
06-04-2008, 11:05 AM
<quote>Realise here though that the oxygen is doing all the cutting,the fuel being used matters not so long as it developes sufficent pre-heat to get the cut started.Diesel even burnt motor oil could be used if the ignition system where figured out.

The 1/2 air gap and the laminated cuts are nothing,so long as all edges are pre-heated to critical temps you can burn them with O/A,O/P without much trouble.<\quote> Pre heat the bottom layer, angle the torch up preheating the top layer.. both will burn out if you don't outrun your heat.

Would you believe this came up at breakfast with a guy sitting three booths down? I tried to explain that to him.. About oxygen lowering the combustion temperature of anything, preheated metal burns out, you can turn off the acetylene, if you keep the pre-heat going.. It will not combust cold steel. That Henrob dillion torch I got, it must be preheated cause it don't have enough "heat" to heat as it goes.. it cuts like a plasma if you keep the straw colored heat right in front of it. A narrow crack. You can near cut out a gear with it..

Oxygen, It also lowered the flash temperature of the Apollo astronauts much to the Nations dimay (and mine, I loved the space program). As a kid, I never thought much of that till I saw the DO NOT SMOKE sign close to a family member in a oxygen tent.

Okay, somebody explain spontaneous combustion of humans to me..