"Home Shop Welding 101"

[torker]

OK guys! I can't stand it anymore. We've got to start a REAL Home Shop Welding thread!
I am so sick of so called "experts" coming here...blabbing off to Home Shop Guys about how they need 12 million dollars worth of heat treating ovens...expensive tig equipment, million dollar gas welding torches, etc.
It's time to cut all the BS.
So..lets do this right! THIS IS HOMESHOP WELDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have some pretty strong opinions about welding. I've worked as a supervisor in a big welding plant for a long time...teaching the beginners.
I have my own welding business.
I've been the local welding "do anything" for years.
I've studied welding towards being a Welding Engineer for a long time.
I DO NOT know everything!
So.. lets start from the beginning.
Tomorrow I'll do a deal on O/A welding... where we ALL should start!
Then we will move on to Tig... the best way IMO.
Then stick..then wirefeed!
Anyone else have anything to add...be "OUR" guest...just make sure your facts are right.

[Mcgyver]

i'm looking forward to this and will bring a nice shiny apple tomorrow :D way to go Russ. one thing to keep in mind is budgets, some things like gas and low end mig is more accessible to a home shop budget than say a real tig....but interested to hear what you have to say

[2ManyHobbies]

Ooh! I want front row. I grew up learning stick, but I find that much of what I'd be interested in welding these days would be incompatible with such methods. A few years ago, I picked up wire-feed for a project, but the next endeavor will be MIG or TIG with a proper table. No more floor welding!

[JRouche]

Well Russ, great idea!!!

Its nice to have a guy like you around who has all the experience to weld up some certifiable weldments but still knows we are mostly abunch of Home Shop guys and we dont need to cert our stuff. We just need good, usable information to get the job done..

Its refreshing to hear advice from you because you know we are not making nuclear containment vessels.

I like the approach, Oxy-Act first, then TIG. Thats how my instructor started us. Even though some anxious folks, myself included, wanted to jump right into TIG. Im glad he made us go through the O/A first, before we could continue we had to pass some tests with O/A first.

Looking forward to the lessons!!! I specifically want more knowledge in TIG welding aluminum when that lesson comes. I have always had difficulties there. And I follow all the rules I have been taught and read, still difficult for me.

And Im hoping there wont be any chiming in from all the other "professionals" on how to do it "better". Im thinking if they have a "better" way to do a process they could start their own thread and leave yours clutter free for the rest of us...

Waiting on the edge of my seat, ok stool :)))) JR

[mechanicalmagic]

Great idea.

I bought my first O/A, May 12, '69, used. Still have it, with new hoses. It was the learning tool, and I can still lay a bead, with it, or the later machines.

Suggestion: Let the gurl edit the post, since she might be more familiar with the noob problems and the feel of welding, long forgotten by some of us. (But now instinctive.)

Dave

[Tim Clarke]

Time to eliminate the bullcraap.

Ive managed to weld up almost anything I wanted to for, well since I was in high school. Graduated in '71. With a Lincoln crackerbox and a oxy/acet rig I can weld, cut, braze, solder about anything I want. With a few more bucks to spend, I'd get a TIG. Then SS and Alum would be welded, no sweat.

I learned to weld with Oxy/Acet first. I think it's a really good way to start. I've used TIG and wire also, it seemed easy after learning the basics with a torch.

Anything you'd care to pass on to those of us who aren't profesionals would be much appreciated.

Regards, TC

[torker]

Nope... there is no more "gurl". She's out of the welding biz for good.. no more hands to do it with.(arthiritus)
She was an amazing welding student.
I welcome HOMESHOP welding info on this thread
Tomorrow..uphand O/A gas welding...."OMG! I can't believe how hot this is"

[torker]

Time to eliminate the bullcraap.

Ive managed to weld up almost anything I wanted to for, well since I was in high school. Graduated in '71. With a Lincoln crackerbox and a oxy/acet rig I can weld, cut, braze, solder about anything I want. With a few more bucks to spend, I'd get a TIG. Then SS and Alum would be welded, no sweat.

I learned to weld with Oxy/Acet first. I think it's a really good way to start. I've used TIG and wire also, it seemed easy after learning the basics with a torch.

Anything you'd care to pass on to those of us who aren't profesionals would be much appreciated.

Regards, TC
Tim.. you about said it all...:D

[doctor demo]

OK guys! I can't stand it anymore. We've got to start a REAL Home Shop Welding thread!
I am so sick of so called "experts" coming here...blabbing off to Home Shop Guys about how they need 12 million dollars worth of heat treating ovens...expensive tig equipment, million dollar gas welding torches, etc.
It's time to cut all the BS.
So..lets do this right! THIS IS HOMESHOP WELDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have some pretty strong opinions about welding. I've worked as a supervisor in a big welding plant for a long time...teaching the beginners.
I have my own welding business.
I've been the local welding "do anything" for years.
I've studied welding towards being a Welding Engineer for a long time.
I DO NOT know everything!
So.. lets start from the beginning.
Tomorrow I'll do a deal on O/A welding... where we ALL should start!
Then we will move on to Tig... the best way IMO.
Then stick..then wirefeed!
Anyone else have anything to add...be "OUR" guest...just make sure your facts are right.
Russ, I don't have the ''proper'' paper trail on all of My past experiances but I have been earning a living with My hood down for a long time. Having said that ,I would welcome the chance to learn more.... But it is My opinion that tig should fall twards the back of the learning curve, especialy in a ''home shop'' environment.I think that gas welding and brazing along with stick and mig would be more of what most home shop guys and gurls have access to.
Of course this is only My opinion , and I am in no way looking for a fight.
Steve

[lazlo]

Fantastic idea Russ -- looking forward to it!

I signed-up for the advanced TIG class at ACC this Fall (orbital, pipe, ...) -- it's for credit class, so I'm probably going to get my cert just for the heck of it :)

[hardtail]

OK since the enrollment fee is reasonable count me in.......LOL, a coworker welder that just retired (moving to BC) worked with a German fella early in his career that did 36" segmented elbows all with O/A, probably the place where everyone should start.........me I'm much too lazy and usually go for the stick.....LOL

[Dawai]

Well, here is the spot where I say

"I welded with my henrob/Dillion-2000 the first time out of the box"

AND?

I could use some advice on welding up a old wood stove, I recovered a small pot belly stove from my mothers estate and it has cracks in the cast in several places.. SHOULD I mig it with stainless wire like the last time I did cast (that held) or purchase some high dollar cast rods and use the henrob OA rig?

That Henrob rig is pricy, but acetylene and oxygen is so low of pressure during use it must save you money.
There are hours of videos online to watch too.

[Evan]

Russ,

Write up the info with pics in a form suitable for a web site and I'll put it online for you.

[torker]

Russ,

Write up the info with pics in a form suitable for a web site and I'll put it online for you.
Evan...that just might be a great idea.
I was wondering....thinking this may turn into the worlds longest thread.
I'm going to get started on the gas welding part this morning as time permits. Gotta get flashback arrestors on my welding torch again...then find a coathanger and go...

[DICKEYBIRD]

Great idea Russ....can't wait to see your experience come forth!

One "expert welder" story and I'll shut up.

In my 1st "real job" (after a couple burger-flippin' jobs) I worked for an import car repair shop. I had a couple years of "metal shop" in high school and did pretty well with OA & stick welding. I did more & more welding as the boss gained more confidence in this long-haired, pimply faced kid and ended up doing about 99% of the welding jobs on the POS clunkers that (sometimes) rolled into the shop. I did tons of exhaust system work, usually cutting and fitting systems from scratch using the oddball pipes he had in stock and used coat hangers almost exclusively. His (tight-a$$ed bastid) stock answer was "The welding supply is out of 1/16" & 3/32" rod." I found that the coat hangers worked great and never had a comeback (on welding jobs anyway.)

One day, bossman hired this new, older guy who said he was a "certified welder." He took one look at me using coat hangers and went ballistic. Me being "the kid," I just tucked my tail and didn't say a word. Later that week, welder-dude draws an exhaust job and rolls out the OA rig. He rummages around the cart, ignoring the tube of carefully straightened coat hangers and picked a 5/32" rod, the smallest ones left other than the coat hangers. He struggled for at least an hour trying to make 3 welds. It was too funny for words. The unmistakable sound of a too-big tip at too low pressure popping & snapping loudly was interspersed with the other unmistakable sound of big blowholes opening up in the pipe as he cursed and jumped around under that old Vauxhall or whatever it was. The smell of burnt hair was pretty strong too.;)

He finally gave up, shut the torch off and rolled it into the corner on the way to his toolbox. He picked it up, glared at me and spluttered, "A trained welder can't weld properly with these rods!" He walked out the door, never to be seen again. Oh yeah; he didn't shut off the tank valves either.

Bossman said: "Finish the job kid." Dutifully, I changed tips, grabbed a couple coathangers, filled in all the blowholes & re-flowed all the clumped up crappy beads welder-dude had left behind. Ever so often I'll pick up a coat hanger and relive that experience....and that was 40 yrs ago.:)

[Evan]

Who do you get your internet service from? You may have web site space of your own. If you like I can turn it into your own stand alone web site as long as it is not-for-profit. I already host a couple of non-profit sites and I don't mind doing another regardless of where it is, especially if it is educational and aimed at this forum.

[Mike Burdick]

Could be interesting....I think it would be nice if you did it on this site!

[ftl]

I'm looking forward to this.

I'm a purely amateur welder (gas, stick and MIG, wanting TIG). I kinda learned how to weld over the last 20 years via reading and experimenting and most of the metal I've welded together has stayed that way. It's been a while since I've brushed up on a lot of the details (many of which I've probably forgotten).

Suggestions on the best way to get into TIG (mainly for smaller aluminum stuff) would be welcome as part of your curriculum.

Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!

[lazlo]

Suggestions on the best way to get into TIG (mainly for smaller aluminum stuff) would be welcome as part of your curriculum.

Lots and lots of practice.

Seriously, TIG is so much harder than any of the other welding processes. When I took my first welding class, the instructor taught us the basics of TIG, and by that point we were pretty respectable with oxy, stick and MIG, but with TIG, you just have to sit there with piles of coupons, tons of filler, and spend lots of time at the grinder before you get your feet and both your hands all synch'ed together.

Aluminum, stainless steel and copper are also harder to TIG than steel, because you have to modulate the foot pedal according to where you are in the weld: with aluminum and especially copper, the material wicks away the heat so fast, you have to stomp on the foot to get the puddle started, then backoff once you get away from the edge, and then really feather off the pedal as you approach the opposite edge.

With stainless, I was able to get a nice looking stack-of-dimes bead pretty quickly, but it would have that flat-matte color that meant that I cooked it. It took me a long time to get the pretty rainbows...

[ftl]

Thanks Lazlo. Good comments.

Part of what I am looking for is what to get in terms of a TIG welder. Without an infinite supply of money (or shop space) to do this with brings the questions:

- How big a welder?
- What features?
- What other equipment & accessories?

My understanding is that since aluminum is a very good conductor of heat, that as Lazlo said, the welder needs to be able to supply significant heat as the aluminum gets thicker and bigger. I'm looking for some suggestions as to welder capabilities vs how big a piece of aluminum it can weld. It is poor economy to save a few hundred $$ on a welder that can only do half of what I want to do (as with most machinery).

Say I was happy to be limited to doing a good job on 3/16" or 1/4" thick aluminum and maybe struggle on occasional 5/16" or 3/8" stuff, how big a welder would be required?

Are there TIG features or techniques that can help with much thinner aluminum? For instance, I really struggle trying to weld steel below about 1/16" with my stick welder, but the MIG makes it pretty easy down to 18ga or 20ga.

[wierdscience]

Russ,good idea,if you want some help with demos let me know.I was thinking of a thread on brazing the otherday.Practical CI welding would be another good topic,but like you said we need to limit it to methods within reach of HSM's.

[pcarpenter]

I vote for a web site. I learned O/A welding, brazing, stick electrode and mig welding in a couple of semesters of classes in high school a couple of decades ago. I hesitate to brag, but I was good at it--back then:rolleyes: So much has been lost from lack of use that I feel like I have a lot of work to do. I know if I review it all now, the same thing will happen...some of the techniques will go unused for some time. As such, a web site that could be referred to much more easily than finding a thread here would be really useful as a "touch up" before taking on a project that used some given technique. A web site lends itself to various forms of media storage as well.

Russ-- thanks in advance for the help this will be for those of us who go a while between weld jobs. (I bought the Square Wave Tig, by the way-- it looked like it had maybe 2 hours use on it:D )

Paul

[kc5ezc]

You got it right Russ. OA, TIG, Stick, MIG. The learning process and kinesthetics translate upward nicely. My hat is off to you. Wish I were closer so I could get some hands on help.
Thanks for your efforts to get us going the right direction in Home Shop welding.
You da man!

[torker]

Lots of good responses! Didn't get done what I wanted today...too damm many customers interupting me.
I did get to do some gas welding... have a few interesting welds done up.
Ran into a problem... feelin sorta dumm about it. I bought a used torch from a guy awhile back and only used it once. Went to change the tip out to a smaller one and found out the other 6 tips don't fit the damm torch.
So... what the hell..in "true" homeshop spirit.. I've decided to do a bunch of different welds with the wrong tip...lol! It's proving to be a challenge!
I'm trying to put together the "right" info... safety stuff...tricks etc. but it's a big undertaking. While at it.. I figure a good thing would be a bit on cutting torches also...
OK.. the O/A then moving on to tig... not "normal" maybe but that's how I like to teach if I can. The two processes are almost identical and both teach puddle control... a big benefit before going into stick welding.
And.. how far to go?
This all started when ..yet again...some people recommend the wrong rod to a beginner.
There is far more to some of this stuff than you may think.
6013... this one.. it is a tricky rod. It is from the "Rutile" family(7014 is also). The weld deposit is usually FULL of tiny inclusions. Not getting into all of it but the weld bead ends up with a course, blocky ferrite microstructure that is very brittle... did you get that??? The weld is brittle! You actually should run a little bigger bead with this rod to compensate.
7018 on the otherhand.. has the far more desirable Acicular ferrite microstructure... this makes for a very tough weld.
Too many biga$$ words... in short.. a noobie weldor is better off using a 7018, 7024 or one of the cellulosic 60 series rods. You can make a poor weld that is still remarkably strong.
Real world... while fabbing something up.. tack a piece of steel with 7018 and one with any 60 series rod... try to move the tacked pieces about a bit with a hammer. The 60 series tacks will fail very easily.
OK... that's enough of this tech crap.. it's all very boring.
Evan...I'll have to get some guidance what to do here to get this stuff on a website or whatever.
Thanks!
Russ

[Evan]

Russ,

Just check with your service provider to find out if you have a web space allotment. I can handle the rest from here if you want. All I would need is the FTP user ID and password. If you don't have web space then I will put it on my server, no charge.

[spkrman15]

My 0.02. When i took my welding course, it was good to have someone show me the correct way, but it was also nice to have a description of what i was probably doing wrong.

"You started out ok, but are not moving at a constant speed, your bead varies in size here, here and there. Watch your rod's angle and make sure your arm can move freely through out the bead. If not stop, move your body and start up again.", etc.

If you can have some examples with suggestions on how to cure mistakes. Not just the "Correct" and "Wrong" pictures. That might be benificial.

Rob :)

[torker]

If you can have some examples with suggestions on how to cure mistakes. Not just the "Correct" and "Wrong" pictures. That might be benificial.

Rob :)
Rob... good idea....ahem...that's sorta the idea with gas welding with the wrong tip...lol! I got thinking that the average home guy isn't going to run out and buy the latest and greatest stuff for eveything.
Thanks Evan..I'll check that out.

[shadoof]

I got thinking that the average home guy isn't going to run out and buy the latest and greatest stuff for everything.


I'd agree with that, I have an old Snap on mig welder 180 Amps runs off 240v single phase, came with a Co2 cylinder from a pub!

Pop gas is not the best stuff for welding I've been told,

I also have a second hand Cebora 140 Amp arc welder (buzz box ?) I use a motley collection of rods of unknown origin or condition, advice on storage and handling would be good.

I've read books but they only tell you what there is to buy, or tons of stuff on grain structure, straight forward stuff on how it's done in a shop, with pictures of set ups, control settings, where and how to stand or sit, that's like being there.

Ok ramble over.


Lee.

[Duffy]

Russ: I am going to stick my neck out as your first guinea pig. I inherited a Lincoln 225 and a whack of electrodes-some of which I gave away. I have maybe 60 lbs of 6011, a box of 6013, one of 7024, three boxes of 7018 and a box of various envelopes of "mystery metal" like stainless and stellite hard surface. All of this stuff has been kept indoors, heated in winter, cooled in summer, (just like my house!) I bought an auto-darkening helmet a couple of years ago and then got frightened. What do I do next? BTW I dont own an O/A set. I did recently get a B tank and Smith air/acetylene torch so maybe I am halfway there. Criticisms or witicisms equally appreciated. Duffy

[lazlo]

Just check with your service provider to find out if you have a web space allotment.

Russ (Evan), if you don't have the web space or bandwidth, I can host it on my personal web page, as long as someone doesn't link it from Make.com :)

[Bill Pace]

Ahhh, Russ, you just may have created a monster here!!

But .... I'm sure gonna encourage you to keep on feedin it!!:D

Great idea, especially from YOU, I always like the way you go at a problem--- with whatever you got at hand! which is the way prolly 90% of us have to do it ... we just cant justify going and spending those big bucks on some speciality "whatzit" for those probable one-off jobs. Good example is your using the "wrong" tip for the OA youre doing now, --- just what a lot of us would be doing, because we just dont have any other.

Course the bestest thing to do would be to make up maybe 3 CD's on the topics and sell em -- you'd prolly get well just off this group! Hey, if Rudy and Jose, etc can do em, I know you could----

Good luck on this venture!!!!

[Your Old Dog]

I don't think I like this idea.

What the hell can I use for an excuse for my news photographer type welds if I'm supposed to know how to do it? :D

Torker I got oxy/acet, mig and AC/DC stick welder. Start with one of them as TIG ain't on my radar anytime soon !!

[Fasttrack]

6013... this one.. it is a tricky rod. It is from the "Rutile" family(7014 is also). The weld deposit is usually FULL of tiny inclusions. Not getting into all of it but the weld bead ends up with a course, blocky ferrite microstructure that is very brittle... did you get that??? The weld is brittle! You actually should run a little bigger bead with this rod to compensate.


Yep, I got it :)

Lest anyone think that I was just making stuff up, I thought I would include some sources. I'm not disagreeing or arguing, just pointing out that I did have some reason to support E6013.

Rutile electrodes just mean that they have titanium oxide in the flux. Common coatings include Rutile, Basic, Basic Rutile and Cellulosic according to a text from our local library. Basic, when compared to the others, have the highest resistance to cracking. Low hy rods are from the basic family.

Rutile electrodes are known for their "operational characteristics" and are popular choices for many factories over seas. The cost and quick learning curve make them ideal for applications that do not require the strength of a low-hy rod. (Like Christmas tree stands or etc).

According to "Metals and How to Weld Them", by TB Jefferson and Gorham Woods (a welding engineer and metallurgist, respectively), even with a rutile electrode, a weld bead produced by a competent SMAW welder will out-perform the same weld produced (at the same settings) by a MIG machine. Of course, this probably has alot to do with electrode size. By bumping up the heat on the MIG unit, it would probably out-perform the rutile electrode.

Anyhow, I may have mis-interperted his statements but I wanted to make it clear I was not just blowing smoke out of my ... well you know. :)

Anyway, everything that I could find online (including many scholarly articles available through JSTOR) all indicated the "exceptional operational characteristics" of rutile electrodes. For general purpose welds in low stressed areas, 6013 is pretty hard to screw up. From personal experiences and all of the references that I could find, they are known for their appearance, if not their mechanical strength. Hydrogen embrittlement is the issue with rutile electrodes and my choice, using 6013 for a structural joint, was not a good one. Luckily it hasn't failed... yet.

I'm looking forward to seeing a website on welding by someone who knows what they're doing. There is alot of myths and rumors out on the web and I can't wait to learn something new! I already learned quite a bit. I'm excited to explore some of these different electrodes that I've never used before.

[small.planes]

Im looking forward to more info. I bought an OA set with a tax refund when I was a student (10 years ago). I figured OA was the most versatile, and being limited to one welder thats the road I chose (cutting as well as sticking together :) )
As a self taught welder Im looking forward to learning the bits I do wrong.
I have since taken a course at the local college, so can (IMO) reasonably weld with stick and MIG as well.

Dave

[torker]

"For general purpose welds in LOW STRESS areas, 6013 is pretty hard to screw up."
My point... noob welders welding things on the trailers, trucks, heavy shop racks etc.... not a good idea.
That's why we only use it for chutes etc. in sawmills or pulpmills.
I don't see the argument about it compared to mig tho..
A 70S-6 wire has the same properties as any 70 series electrode.
Of course if mig is done wrong... then I can see it.
After it cools down in the shop.. I'll be doing some gas welding with a cutting torch...lol! Now that's "Homeshop"!
Remembered why I don't like doing a whole lotta gas welding. Was doing an uphand T joint...burnt the crap out of my left hand cuz my coathanger was too short :D

[torker]

BTW.. I find I prefer coathangers to RG45 gas welding rod. I think they killed it better. Seems to handle like an RG60 but of course...we don't know the properties of a coathanger do we?
(Well we do to a certain extent... steal enough coathangers outta the closet... pretty soon that will cause "property " issues with the missus) :D

[Tim Clarke]

Well, anytime I haven't had the filler from the welding store, I've used the hangers. Made some nice welds with them. But the point is, if you're welding mystery metal, why not use mystery filler rod???????????? Works great on non-critical welds, such as exhaust pipe.

Regards to all
TC

[torker]

Well, anytime I haven't had the filler from the welding store, I've used the hangers. Made some nice welds with them. But the point is, if you're welding mystery metal, why not use mystery filler rod???????????? Works great on non-critical welds, such as exhaust pipe.

Regards to all
TC
Yabut... we are going to see... I'm going to destructive test the coathanger/cutting torch welds.

[doctor demo]

[QUOTE=torkerI'll be doing some gas welding with a cutting torch...lol! Now that's "Homeshop"!
Remembered why I don't like doing a whole lotta gas welding. Was doing an uphand T joint...burnt the crap out of my left hand cuz my coathanger was too short :D[/QUOTE]
Go down to the local hardware store and get some rolls of tie wire, that way You are still (sorta) mig welding with a torch. I don't care for clothse hanger welding the (flux) varnish coating gives me a head ache ,

Steve

[torker]

Steve..all i've seen here is galvanized or somesuch coated tiewire.
May as well post some welding stuff here. Was pretty interesting..
My "TOO" large welding tip... hard to handle but I'm getting the hang of it.
A few restarts that aren't great due to short pieces of coathanger..ouch!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00004-24.jpg
I gotta take a new pic of this in the morning...it turned out as nice as wirefeed..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00006-6.jpg
NOW.. welding with a cutting torch... This will be fun...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00007-6.jpg
Hmmm ...doesn't look THAT bad... but "Houston...we have a problem"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00011.jpg

[torker]

Flip it over and back gouge it...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00010.jpg
OMG.. this is hot! Only 1/4" material...very hard to weld fast enough with the torch..
The problem.. as I was welding it I could see that the high gas pressure from the torch was "sucking" dirty air into weld from under the flame. The weld wasn't pure...it was sorta frothy. All in all... it didn't look too bad considering..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00012.jpg
Bend test... failed.. you can see the frosty weld broke..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00014-1.jpg
However.. this wasn't a proper test. I never waited for the coupon to cool, the anvil on the press was very sharp and the female die was too short...compared to a proper tester..
So.. I'd like to try this again, with a smaller tip. I'm also going to do some more testing with the coathangers...maybe a problem but I don't think so..
Russ

[NickH]

Is there a point demonstrationg how not to do things, given that there are a million & one ways to do a job wrong the thread could become a little long?

Can you get video rather than stills? Welding is a dynamic process where video with good instruction could be much more valuable than stills?

With OA how about starting with the basics - Oxidising Flame - Neutral Flame - Carburising Flame explaining the uses and effects and working from there?

Weld pool, whats a weld pool? You could also start out with a statement of assumed level of knowlege so newbies lacking some of this would not think they should be able to work it out,
Regards,
Nick

[torker]

Nick..where did I say "weld pool" anywhere on this thread??? I re-read all my posts and don't see it.(That one torch weld WAS a weld pool tho)
And I didn't realize you where from the UK(your spelling of oxidising and carburising) (My spelling would be oxidizing and carburizing)
I agree with the video...so you gonna lend me you equipment?
What's the "point"?
This is a "Homeshop" welding deal. Trying to think outside the box here... some of the things a homeshop guy would try.
How many times have you read about guys welding with a cutting torch? I have... in fact I've done it a few times in emergency situations. However.. I've never taken the time to test the results.
The "too large" of a tip... Why not? This is a very real homeshop or otherwise reality. Gotta weld on Sunday...no welding supply open...
And you should read the thread...right now I'm compiling any ideas and things I'm doing to get an idea where this will go.
I threw in the pics to break up the boredom...this is NOT how I would start out the real thread...if you read it you would see I've already said so.
Now please...where did I say "weld pool" in this thread...
Russ

[DickDastardly40]

I'll be watching this one with interest, only ever did O/A as an apprentice.

I and others will have a coupla (dozen) questions, do you want to field them as you go, your all important time dependant or wait until the end each segment you intend doing.

Also would it be worth starting a new thread for each section, ie O/A TIG, MMA etc to make it easier for others to seach and ask questions specific to that technique.

Your thread, your rules, happy to watch anyway whatever.

Al

[Carld]

Russ, may I suggest that the instruction part be a NO COMMENT thread. If you allow posts there will be much arguing about how and why your doing it. Have a seperate thread for comments. You know this is going to turn into a man eating Bear don't you.

Like you, I have used the cutting torch head to weld as well as the wrong size tip. When your in a hurry, your in a hurry and it works.

I use 6013 'cause I like the way it flows and was not aware of the brittle aspect. I also like 7018 rods and use them for strength welds.

When I was a teenager in the late '50's my uncle set me to cutting old engines to scrap out. I had to learn how to cut cast iron with a O/A torch and it's not easy and I probably can't do it now as it takes a lot of practice.

I hope you can turn this into a good instruction thread without comments.

[torker]

Guys! This is heading towards becoming a website. There's no way this will work as is. It'll just turn into a jumbled up mess.
I'm still looking for ideas. Seems pointless to just spew out what has already been written time and time again. Contrary to what some may think.. I see a lot of value in doing a "Mythbuster" section. THAT has not been done before.
If you think about it... the home guy is going to create a lot of problems for himself. I think it's worthwhile finding out "why or why not".
Still just kickin things around...like Bill said "creating a monster" isn't what I have time for.
I need to work on better pic taking skills etc.
BTW... I don't mind helping out thru PM's. I'm already doing that with a few guys.
Russ

[torker]

Russ, may I suggest that the instruction part be a NO COMMENT thread. If you allow posts there will be much arguing about how and why your doing it. Have a seperate thread for comments. You know this is going to turn into a man eating Bear don't you.

Like you, I have used the cutting torch head to weld as well as the wrong size tip. When your in a hurry, your in a hurry and it works.

I use 6013 'cause I like the way it flows and was not aware of the brittle aspect. I also like 7018 rods and use them for strength welds.

When I was a teenager in the late '50's my uncle set me to cutting old engines to scrap out. I had to learn how to cut cast iron with a O/A torch and it's not easy and I probably can't do it now as it takes a lot of practice.

I hope you can turn this into a good instruction thread without comments.
Carl...see my post about the website. Cutting cast... it helps if you feed a welding rod into the flame.
Lots of guys use 6013...just be careful what for.
I worked with a welding engineer for 7 months a few years back. He had incredible knowledge... but he sucked at welding. LOL! He ran 6013 way more than he should have... he even admitted it. It was just easier for him.

[NickH]

Nick..where did I say "weld pool" anywhere on this thread??? I re-read all my posts and don't see it.(That one torch weld WAS a weld pool tho)
And I didn't realize you where from the UK(your spelling of oxidising and carburising) (My spelling would be oxidizing and carburizing)
I agree with the video...so you gonna lend me you equipment?
What's the "point"?
This is a "Homeshop" welding deal. Trying to think outside the box here... some of the things a homeshop guy would try.
How many times have you read about guys welding with a cutting torch? I have... in fact I've done it a few times in emergency situations. However.. I've never taken the time to test the results.
The "too large" of a tip... Why not? This is a very real homeshop or otherwise reality. Gotta weld on Sunday...no welding supply open...
And you should read the thread...right now I'm compiling any ideas and things I'm doing to get an idea where this will go.
I threw in the pics to break up the boredom...this is NOT how I would start out the real thread...if you read it you would see I've already said so.
Now please...where did I say "weld pool" in this thread...
Russ

So take it as ideas then:D

[torker]

So take it as ideas then:D
I already did! :D

[rdesign]

One possible way to lay this out is one example at a time. IE show a welding job; "repair to a broken wyx stuck half way up pritchet canyon trail", etc.. the welding process chosen, why, procedure, some settings and photos of the area before, during prep, and after. If you try to cover all things you have a text book, if the examples are situational a home shop welder can find a similar situation and give it a try. Many of us have textbooks, how about real examples later organized somehow to search by process or base metals or working conditions? The entry about cutting cast iron while feeding a little 6013 filler is a perfect example of one entry. knock off the flux? does the filler go at the leading edge of the cut? a little elaboration and a title on the entry and you have it. Kind of like the book "machine shop trade secrets" but for welding.

[torker]

One possible way to lay this out is one example at a time. IE show a welding job; "repair to a broken wyx stuck half way up pritchet canyon trail", etc.. the welding process chosen, why, procedure, some settings and photos of the area before, during prep, and after. If you try to cover all things you have a text book, if the examples are situational a home shop welder can find a similar situation and give it a try. Many of us have textbooks, how about real examples later organized somehow to search by process or base metals or working conditions? The entry about cutting cast iron while feeding a little 6013 filler is a perfect example of one entry. knock off the flux? does the filler go at the leading edge of the cut? a little elaboration and a title on the entry and you have it. Kind of like the book "machine shop trade secrets" but for welding.
Ya..that's kind of the stuff I was thinking. BTW.. I just use RG45 or you could use coathangers....lol!

[gellfex]

I don't think I like this idea.

What the hell can I use for an excuse for my news photographer type welds if I'm supposed to know how to do it? :D

Torker I got oxy/acet, mig and AC/DC stick welder. Start with one of them as TIG ain't on my radar anytime soon !!

second that! I've got MIG & AC/DC. Maybe you should go in order of ease of entry, starting with the cheapest. Tig would be last, no?

[lazlo]

Maybe you should go in order of ease of entry, starting with the cheapest. Tig would be last, no?

TIG's also the hardest, by far. In my multi-process welding class we did oxy first, then stick, then MIG (which is the easiest, by far) and then TIG. I'm told that's pretty standard.

But I understand where Russ is coming from -- puddle management and tempo on TIG is very similar to Oxy, you just don't have a foot pedal to modulate the heat of the torch.

[Evan]

Well, the offer still stands to make it into some web pages and put it on line Russ. But, you better have it pretty well formatted the way you want because I'm not going to take any of the blame for the content. :D

[lazlo]

Well, the offer still stands to make it into some web pages and put it on line Russ.

My offer still stands to host it, if Evan will WebMaster it -- I've got a Gigabyte of web server space and 60 GB of bandwidth parked on a web site that's currently unused...

[small.planes]

The welding with a cutting torch, and in the spirit of homeshopping, reminded me of a dodge Ive used a few times, cutting with a welding torch. Its not very neat, but if you turn up the oxy to a very oxidising flame you can cut thin sheet quite sucessfully which does save you some time when your wedged under a car and that little bracket is in the way....

Dave

[torker]

Hola! I need time to get some stuff together.... and still getting good ideas from here.
Today is crazy.. got a welding job in a few hours ago. Still haven't touched it. There's three hornet nests in and around the old trailer the guy drug in for me to do some work on. He got the crap stung out of himself here. I ran out of hi pressure wasp spray so I'm waiting til the missus brings home some more.
I'd fry the little buggers out with the Tiger torch but this trailer is full of diesel fuel and other assorted flammables.
That and playing the "waiting games" all day trying to pick up my equipment. Geez.. the things you gotta do when you break yer gurl!

[rohart]

If George would set up a welding forum, there could be a few stickies, say one each for O/A, MIG, TIG, Which method, and other methods.

Welding-wise, I hope to be a real noob. I've got limited shop size and funds, not to mention nosey neighbours, and I'd like to do some welding, but the list of things I want to do seem to suggest I need to start on all the techniques at once. Like small aluminium for bike cases, 1/4 inch steel plate and angle for frames, cast iron for fixing broken tailstock castings, brazing for bike and other frames etc.

So starting off with a good description of what each type of kit and technique will do would be really helpful. And the basic science/engineering reasons why one piece of kit can't/won't do two jobs. Where must I keep bottles ? Are rods called the same thing in the UK as in the states ? Where is it safe to weld ? Ventilation requirements etc.

Strength to your elbow torker. The whole project sounds brilliant. Am looking forward to it.

[Carld]

torker, I'm with you on O/A to TIG. Untill I got my TIG I didn't realize how much they have in common. Stick and MIG are in many ways the same.

ROFLMAO, if you heat a piece up with a welding tip and when it's all good and red then turn more oxy to the flame it will cut the piece like a cutting torch. That is, if your a smooth operator.

[torker]

ROFLMAO, if you heat a piece up with a welding tip and when it's all good and red then turn more oxy to the flame it will cut the piece like a cutting torch. That is, if your a smooth operator.
Carl.. LOL! another one I've never heard of..it makes sense tho.
It's still about 100* in my shop.. aint doing any gas welding tonite..
Hot spell is supposed to be over in a day or two.

[gearedloco]

Hola! I need time to get some stuff together.... and still getting good ideas from here.
Today is crazy.. got a welding job in a few hours ago. Still haven't touched it. There's three hornet nests in and around the old trailer the guy drug in for me to do some work on. He got the crap stung out of himself here. I ran out of hi pressure wasp spray so I'm waiting til the missus brings home some more.
I'd fry the little buggers out with the Tiger torch but this trailer is full of diesel fuel and other assorted flammables.

Yeah - had a little shed in the back of the lot where I did some tinkering. Bunch of wasps came in one day and decided to take over. Didn't have any real bug spray on hand so I tried WD-40:rolleyes: . Man, did that ever piss 'em off! I don't know how I beat 'em to the cement pond, but I did.:eek:

[torker]

Well this one is going to be fun. I checked for the nests in the dark last nite. they are up inbetween the sides of the trailer where I couldn't spray. Might have to risk the tiger torch yet.

[lazlo]

if you heat a piece up with a welding tip and when it's all good and red then turn more oxy to the flame it will cut the piece like a cutting torch. That is, if your a smooth operator.
Carl.. LOL! another one I've never heard of..it makes sense tho.

I've removed a broken tap that way: use the smallest welding tip you have (a 0 or 00), heat the broken tap in the blind hole until it's cherry red, and then turn the oxygen way up. The tap will disintegrate.

[Evan]

Hey Russ,

I have a question for you. I have my little Miller 135, a roll of .025 aluminum mig wire and a 14.5 cubic foot tank of helium meant for balloons. I have checked and the helium is pure helium, not diluted (based on lift). What's my chance of doing a little aluminum welding without a spool gun and using a jury rigged flow meter? What flow rate would I use?

[torker]

When in doubt... use 20 CFH. Really you could use prolly 12 CFH to 15 CFH with that little wire.

[Evan]

OK, thanks. I'll give it a try soon. If anything turns out I'll post a pic for a critique.

[bhjones]

Aluminum is a sponge that'll soak up the heat and 135 amps is pretty light. I hope your welding thin material. Preheating will help if your wire will feed. Personally I was never able to get consistent wire feeding through my 175+ Lincoln, even using the alum liner and feed rolls. It would burn back to the tip or birdsnest at the feed rollers. I gave up and bought a tig welder.

OK, thanks. I'll give it a try soon. If anything turns out I'll post a pic for a critique.

[BadDog]

I was never able to get consistent wire feeding through my 175+ Lincoln, even using the alum liner and feed rolls. It would burn back to the tip or birdsnest at the feed rollers. I gave up and bought a tig welder.
He's talking about a spool gun (gonna be fun trying to hook to the 135).
What's my chance of doing a little aluminum welding without a spool gun and using a jury rigged flow meter?
Ever thought about adapting a "Ready Welder"?

[lazlo]

H I have my little Miller 135, a roll of .025 aluminum mig wire and a 14.5 cubic foot tank of helium meant for balloons. I have checked and the helium is pure helium, not diluted (based on lift).

I TIG welded aluminum with helium balloon gas (dc electrode positive), but the party gas has a ton of impurities, and the arc was very unstable. Industrial helium is much purer, which is why it's also more expensive.

[lazlo]

He's talking about a spool gun (gonna be fun trying to hook to the 135).

Russ, if you re-read Evan's post, he's saying he wants to weld aluminum without a spoolgun. Like bhjones says, MIG'ing aluminum is pretty dicey without a push-pull gun, even if you replace the rollers and use teflon liners.

It helps a lot if you use 5356, and keep the lead as absolutely straight as possible.

[torker]

All bad gas jokes aside.. I wouldn't bet too much money that Evan couldn't make this work..:D

[BadDog]

Russ, if you re-read Evan's post, he's saying he wants to weld aluminum without a spoolgun.
Oops! :o I read it AND quoted it without registering the "out"... <sigh> Back to my hole under a rock... :p

[lazlo]

All bad gas jokes aside.. I wouldn't bet too much money that Evan couldn't make this work..:D

Yeah, but you know Evan -- he's going to say it worked no matter what :)

Seriously, the problem I had was with the crap in the cheap party gas contaminating the TIG electrode. But since the electrode on MIG is consumable (i.e., the wire is feeding out) he'll probably be fine. If it's anything like the balloon gas I got in Austin, he'll get a lot of arc flashing and chemical contamination in the weld, but he's not doing aerospace stuff ;)

[torker]

Here's one for you..."Problems from our shop"...er.. i guess it's just me now...lol!
Guy brings in this ugly old homemade trailer.. I "strongly" suggested maybe i reweld some of the more critical welds... can any one spot why...lol!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-68.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00002-47.jpg
Oh boy.. the deeper you dig...
See the blue spots? That's where someone just "slopped" weld on...there is no fusion under the blue spots..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00003-30.jpg
Notice the little wee blue spot and several small inclusions. This was just plain ugly about halfway down...still needs a little more grinding
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00004-26.jpg

[lazlo]

Guy brings in this ugly old homemade trailer.. I "strongly" suggested maybe i reweld some of the more critical welds... can any one spot why...lol!

You're just being too picky Russ -- you're not doing aerospace welds you know...

There's a professional welder in town likes to say "anyone with a denim shirt thinks they're a welder" :)

[torker]

The repaired one with the big blue spot...(Don't worry.. i fixed that ugly lil roll over...the rod sputtered)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00005-12.jpg
Here's the one with the smaller blue spot...this was worse than I thought.
Notice the repair.. I've stacked the beads by cutting them in half. Notice also the ends...they are all staggered...you will avoid cracking if you do that.
Why stringers? This is pretty old metal..to run big honkin weaves here would add stress the already stressed metal.
I also ran stringers across the ends and around the outer corner...to add strength
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-69.jpg
This was all done with 7018DC+ 1/8" rod @125 amps.

[Errol]

Nice job Torker! I've got a couple hundred butt joints to weld in 1 1/2" 0.100 sprinkler pipe. Building a short pipeline from my dugout to standpipe for my new shop Fire Suppression system.

What I've done for years with this type of thin wall pipe, is use O/A, but I want to speed it up a bit, so I have been trying stick.

Now the only stick I can get to function properly for me on this pipe is 3/32" 6010 or 6011, downhill welding running at just under 80 amps. Problem is I would rather use 3/32" 7018 which normally (on thicker pipe) gives me a more reliable joint.

Does anyone have tips on how to use 7018 "vertical up" on thin material without blowing holes in the joint? Oh, this is an outside job, so can't use my wire feed.

[gnm109]

I'm a long-time home welder. I've been welding up motorcycle frames and accessories for many years. I do O-A, TIG and stick. I think that welding goes hand-in-hand with a home machinist's shop. I would welcome either a section on welding or a separate website. I'm certain tha tI could contribute a few items.

I visit several welding sites now that are frequented by "professionals" . I'm mainly a lurker but I can always learn more.

It's a really good idea to have a welding area similar to this website.

Regards to all.

[torker]

Errol..Have you got a rotator? I've done lots of thinner wall stuff with 3/32 7018 on a rotator. This allows you to weld "in the flat" for the whole joint.
Uphand with 7018 is going to be tough on that(but you can run it downhand also). You have the problem that 7018 can't "dig" like 6010 to make sure the root is in. Ooops..you said buttweld...then there is no bevel?
You could do it in quadrants or maybe thirds.. I'm just guessing here...are you doing long runs...more than two pipes together?
Is this stuff galvanized?

[Errol]

Torker, No rotator.

I'll be laying along side the pipe in a trench on a hill side that has a few zig zags, so can't rotate it unfortunately.

As for bevel, that would be simple, just a swipe with the angle grinder would do it, but my feeling was to keep as much "meat" as I could to hold the "puddle" in place.

As for Downhill with 7018, I've never had much luck with that. What's the trick?

I'll try a few practice joints on the bench this evening and try the downhill 7018. Too bad 7018 doesn't "whip". I'll also try some bevels and try different rod angles.

gnm109 has a great idea! I would agree with him....to Add (Insert) a completely new welding section on the first screen of this HSM forum. You know the one that has "General...Network...and Third Hand.

[torker]

Errol.. I'm not very good at downhand 7018.. I must have been at one time.. I passed the tests we had to do for journey status but have never done it since.. The guys in Alberta use it a lot for pipe(that goes in the ground).. Here...most of our pipe welding is above ground and the proceedures call for uphand only so that's all I ever did.
Biggest thing with any downhand is staying ahead of the puddle. You can wiggle it a bit side to side ..that helps. I'll try some later today when it cools off.

[lazlo]

Errol..Have you got a rotator? I've done lots of thinner wall stuff with 3/32 7018 on a rotator. This allows you to weld "in the flat" for the whole joint.

What's a rotator? Is that a ball joint on the stinger?

[torker]

Laz...nope...a positioner..
Errol.. hows dis??? (First time in about 15 years..)(downhand)
First pass... 3/32 7018 @ 95amps(from 2 oclock down...use a slight side to side motion... start pulling a slightly longer arc at 3 oclock.. will keep the slag backed up a bit better)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-70.jpg
sorry for the crap pic.. the white spot is a "restart notch I ground in the start of the bead from the other direction.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00002-48.jpg
Last pass..looking up from the bottom... Arrggghhh.. I held it just a second too long and got a snotgoobler..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00007-8.jpg
A little more practice and we'd have it made! Forgot how I hate lil pipe.. you gotta change the rod angle SOOOO frikkin fast.
Russ

[Errol]

Wow! I'd sure be happy with that. Is that really .100 pipe?

Yah, changing rod angle is tricky for me too, I find cutting the rods in half helps a lot with the "shake factor".

Too hot here in Kamloops right now to put the mask on. Will try later this evening.

For Lazlo, the rotator is just a simple stand with rollers so you can rotate the pipe as you weld so you are always welding in the "flat" position.

[torker]

Wow! I'd sure be happy with that. Is that really .100 pipe?


Errol...sorry..it's not .100 wall. I didn't have any. It's .125 wall.
The .100 wall would be better actually. This... I have just a hint of a root peekin thru... if it was .100 wall it'd be a bit better.

[mikfish711]

Good morning all. First off let me say, I have been visiting for a while but just joined. There is a ton a great info here. I amy be your ultimate ginuea pig for this project (although you may not want to start as low as I am). I was recently given a small (110V)Campbell Hausfeld flux core/mig welder. I am extremely interested in learning but dont know where to start. I would love to take a class but am having trouble finding one so I figured I would start here. I will primarily be making very rudementary items such as exhaust and motor mount brackets for ATV and motorcycles out of mild steel that will be painted. So I think I may be a good candidate for your trials. Would it be possible to start with set up items such as metal prep, heat ranges, wire speed, angle of the guns, etc. (if you are willing to start with the noobiest of the noobs)? Thanks for all the great info!!!
Mike

[TexasTurnado]

I am extremely interested in learning but dont know where to start. I would love to take a class but am having trouble finding one so I figured I would start here.

If you have a Junior college there that has vocational classes you may find welding courses are offered. That's where I learned to TIG weld. The instructors I had were very good and no book or text will come close to watching a pro do it properly - or having him watch you and tell what you are doing wrong.:)

[torker]

I think a few of you here think i just fell off a turnip truck...so.. In the FUTURE...we will be learning how to weld Titainium...this is "sorta" how we do it..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00001-71.jpg
trailing gas shield...made from a couple cents worth of alu foil.
This.. how to rescue a Polaris shift rod in a hurry.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/torker/DSC00003-31.jpg
Don't worry.. this "thread" is "sorta" on track. It will be a little different than you think..
BTW... if you have the cheapest 110V FC welder on earth... you get what you pay for. I've NEVER bought one of these. I HAVE used them...all I can say.. if it's cheap enough.. turn it up as high as it will go and hope for the best. My opinion only.. I really hate those little machines. They make the beautiful "art" of welding a farce...it's more like "hold my breath and hope it works"
Russ

[Evan]

Russ,

Get a tripod.

[lazlo]

I'd love to learn how to TIG titanium, but the cost of the coupons would really suck, at $15/lb! :) That's another good reason to take the advanced TIG class at the local CC.

[TexasTurnado]

I'd love to learn how to TIG titanium, but the cost of the coupons would really suck, at $15/lb! :) That's another good reason to take the advanced TIG class at the local CC.

We never got to weld any Ti where I went, but one night the head instructor showed off by cutting a coke can in half with a knife, then TIG welding it back together after cutting a narrow strip off one end to use for filler:D

[lazlo]

Yeah, we TIG welded the coke can and the razor blades in the multi-process welding class at ACC. It helps a lot if you use the filler rod to shield the thin material. The Advanced TIG class goes into exotics like Titanium.

To be honest, I don't think learning TIG would have been cost-effective if I had to pay for all the aluminum, steel, and stainless coupons, but maybe I'm a slow learner :)

[Smokedaddy]

Downhill 7018 ... humm ... anyway, here are a few test coupons we use, 100 percent xray of course and not prepped yet and our plate test.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/100672204

-SD:

[TexasTurnado]

Yeah, we TIG welded the coke can and the razor blades in the multi-process welding class at ACC. It helps a lot if you use the filler rod to shield the thin material. The Advanced TIG class goes into exotics like Titanium.

To be honest, I don't think learning TIG would have been cost-effective if I had to pay for all the aluminum, steel, and stainless coupons, but maybe I'm a slow learner :)

At that time (early 90's) aluminum wasn't all that expensive, but I loved to work with the SS and used a bunch. Maybe it was those nice colors when you get it right:D I really enjoy the TIG welding, and use it almost exclusively. MIG was the one I never could get to like - I thought it was harder than TIG, especially to get enough penetration. Too many welds looked great, but were just sitting on the base metal.

I took the advanced class here, but only talked about Ti. Also took the next class, which was even more advanced topics, and you were required to select a project of your own choosing, so I did an all aluminum o/a cart with rod storage tubes. Still have it and have my set in it.

BTW, I tried to PM you, but got an error saying you already had too many:)

[torker]

Sorry guys! The Ti job never showed up. Anyway.. want to weld Titainium?
Need "coupon" material... for free??? Think outside the box......Go to the local dirtbike dealer. Most of the new fourstrokes have Ti header pipes (that's what I was supposed to repair). These get wrecked on a regular basis and thrown in the garbage.
I get them to save them for me. I use a zip wheel to cut them into strips that I use for filler. Be careful... don't use any kind of alu oxide wheel to grind the strips down...it can contaminate the strips.
SD... you guys building cannons?

[lazlo]

I took the advanced class here, but only talked about Ti.

At Austin Community College, the multi-process welding class is in the continuing education program, but the advanced classes are intended for guys getting their welding certs, so they're in the for-credit college. So I had to apply for ACC, which is amusing since I have two Master's Degrees, so they wanted my graduate transcripts from Virginia Tech and the Naval Postgraduate School :)

In any event, as I told Mike (MickeyD), ACC canceled the evening session of the Fall Advanced TIG class (that I was signed-up for) :mad: The daytime session is 10:40 - 1:40 Tu Thu, so I could conceivable take a long lunch, but then I'd be coming back to Nvidia stinking of sweat and smoke.

So it looks like I'm going to have to wait 'till the Spring session.

ACC also added a welding special topics class called "Toolmaking" that got me all excited -- I was hoping it was specialty HSS welding for tool and die work. But when I asked my welding instructor about it, he said it was making blacksmithing tools. Doh!

By the way, ACC has a fantastic Blacksmithing program if anyone's interested. I haven't taken any of the classes, but the forge room adjoins the welding area, and I love watching those guys work!

BTW, I tried to PM you, but got an error saying you already had too many:)

Sorry about that -- I got a ton of PM about the bearing charts I posted. All cleared up now.

[lazlo]

Need "coupon" material... for free??? Think outside the box......Go to the local dirtbike dealer. Most of the new fourstrokes have Ti header pipes (that's what I was supposed to repair). These get wrecked on a regular basis and thrown in the garbage.

Oh, that's bloody brilliant Russ!!!

Please do post more of the back-purging setup for welding Ti!

[oldtiffie]

Oh, that's bloody brilliant Russ!!!

Please do post more of the back-purging setup for welding Ti!

Colonic irrigation?

Enema?

Touch ya toes!!!!

[Smokedaddy]

SD... you guys building cannons?


Grin,

The coupons in the images (2 inch) are for just one of our certification test. The 1 inch plate test, all 2 welding positions, was for embeds certification for PaloVerde nuke.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/100672204

The one below is TIG all the way out in a 6G position, 45 degree (some call it a Arkansas bell hole) and a different certification. Of coures there are others, TIG stringer with 7018 filler and cap, 2 inch, 12 inch etc. Pretty tough test in my opinion.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/100745924

The one below is a 2 inch, 6G, TIG stringer and low high out (7018), ready to be sent out for xray.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/100745929

We go through a butt-load of large and small bore pipe all the time. We have 40 weld booths. Of course we re-use the coupons as much as possible (cut and re-bevel etc.).

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/100745932

-SD:

[torker]

SD...LOL! Yup..that's a tough test if it's tig all the way out... and 6G. I had to learn how to tig left handed for that test... right on one side..lefthand on the other. I watch some guys try to do it all right handed...it's pretty gnarly looking.
Looks like nice tig work there from what I can see. I don't miss that..tiggin 6G small dia pipe. Can't bend too good for that anymore. Then in the real world they put the damm pipe right up close to a wall or a foot off the floor..makes it even nicer :(
Russ

[DICKEYBIRD]

Okay, okay....back to the original topic you gurus. That's hardly HSM welding.;) Sure is purty though.:D

My neophyte question for you grizzled veterans is about 6013 rods. I bartered for an inoperative Century 220v AC-DC, 230 amp max AC, 140 DC welder. Once I fixed the squeeze & slide amperage adjuster it seems to work fine. I asked the guy at the welding store what a good all around rod for general purpose home shop Mr Fixit projects would be and he recommended 6013. I bought a box each of 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" a year ago. I noticed in the other recent welding thread that 6013's were poo-poo'd. My hobby budget is pretty limited so I'm stuck with using them though.

My welding jobs are fairly infrequent and usually consist of tacking 1/16" mild steel sheet, solidly welding 1/8" to 5/16" mild steel brackets with the occasional 3/8" x 1 1/2" bar and some misc. angle iron & tubing. You guys have any general tips on how best to use the 6013's? This is my 1st experience with DC and so far I like it.

[Smokedaddy]

You might find this helpful (you need to read all of it too).

http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=1674

-SD:

[torker]

SD..good resource there. Notice "6013 rod...should ONLY be used to weld new clean sheet steel".
You welding supply store... We have two in town...maybe a total of 8 employees. Not ONE of them knows how to weld. How can they REALLY tell you which rod to use?
My guys..at Praxair..they'd have sold you a box of 7024 and a box of 6010..
Dickey... for what you are doing.. the rod will work. Not my choice but it'll work as long as no ones safety is at risk. If you find any BB's(big slag inclusions) in a weld.. grind it out and redo it.
Also..watch that the puddle with 6013 flows out and fuses on the sides.
For thicker stuff...watch the same thing plus!
You should maybe do some bend tests on coupons to see if your work will stand up. Even clamping a 1 1/2" wide coupon in a vise and banging it over with a hammer will tell you if your welds are ok. If they fall apart...you got troubles.
Tight budget??? Come on.. a box of 7024 costs about $15. You'd thank me after you used it.
Russ

[JRouche]

I would like to hear about the various "tricks" to welding. And I know, they aren't really tricks, just normal procedures to welding. But sometimes the books talk about how to do something but dont say why. Im a "why" kinda guy. Cause once I know the why it sticks in my head, it then makes sense to me.

I took some courses at our local community college that was taught by Jack D. Compton (AWS Director district 21). He was the only instructor. Brilliant guy and had a sincere caring for the guys enrolled to get them AWS certified for structural steel welding (stick), to help them get a job.

Anyway, I was one of ten other guys that were not interested in getting a cert for stick. I wanted to learn to TIG weld. Not to put him or the course down but us ten were kinda the red headed step children, the real focus was on the fifteen other guys who were there to learn a trade and I get that. Employment for our kids is number one.

So this class started us "redheads" off with O/A as many do. I hated it, at first. Then realized this needs to be taught first. With O/A you can go much slower and learn how to control the weld puddle and actually see it and manipulate it while not blowing it all out like a tig might do for the beginner.

I went through many lil pieces of sheet metal (which we sheared our selves) before he would even talk about TIG. Had to pass all the coupon tests for that, various joints is all.

But I digress LOL My point with the tricks was. Not really a trick but I didnt get it till he came by my booth and showed me. I was doing butt joints on 18ga. I was burning the stuff up. Big ol 1/4" holes everywhere. I was frustrated, I thought I was applying too much heat so what did I do, back the flame away. WRONG!!. I just didn't know. So, after he showed me when its getting too hot move the tip in closer. Sure enough, with the flame going through the keyhole it would put the heat to the other side, not on top the metal. And really, as trivial as it sounds that lil "trick" got me more motivated cause I wasnt burning metal anymore, I was actually welding. Made a HUGE difference for me..

So.. My need for tricks is paramount really.. And again, prolly not tricks, just the standard for welding but I don't get it alot of the time till its explained by a person.. JR

[doctor demo]

SD..good resource there. Notice "6013 rod...should ONLY be used to weld new clean sheet steel".
You welding supply store... We have two in town...maybe a total of 8 employees. Not ONE of them knows how to weld. How can they REALLY tell you which rod to use?
My guys..at Praxair..they'd have sold you a box of 7024 and a box of 6010..
Tight budget??? Come on.. a box of 7024 costs about $15. You'd thank me after you used it.
Russ
Russ, I get 6010, or 6011, or 7018, but I don't think I have ever used 7024.
So what benefit is 7024 over the others?

steve

[torker]

Steve...7024 lays in like puddin...a pure and clean weld... even better with DC-(If you want the "glassy look").
I still use it a lot for outdoor welding in the flat and horizontal. Beauty is.. it's not lowhy so you don't need an oven.
BTW.. need an oven? You can buy the small portables like I use for about $150 Cnd.
JR...The more I get into this the more I think the "tricks" could prevail. There's lots of regular info out there but not much in the way of tricks that could help a HSM guy (my dirtbike header pipe deal is an example.)
I also don't agree that tig isn't in the realm of the HSM guy... a lot of people own tig machines now.

[torker]

JR...Geez.. I almost missed that! You brought up one of the most important things in welding. "Short arc length"! It all matters.. you get the torch, tunsten, rod..wire..whatever too far away and it will "superheat" the metal all around it. This makes it very hard to manage a puddle.
This is especially true with stick...uphand is the worst. You pull a long arc going uphill and you are in trouble.
You also mentioned "keyhole"...the most important thing in open groove welding. You have to strive to keep the keyhole consistant as you weld and keep it centered. Feeding the rod into a keyhole consistantly only comes with practice.
A little trick here... when doing a 6010 root...always look at the end of your rod...see that the flux is centered. If it's not...if it's thinner on one side...you will have big trouble running the root in even. When testing we always pick perfect rods to run in the root.

[doctor demo]

Steve...7024 lays in like puddin...a pure and clean weld... even better with DC-(If you want the "glassy look").

I also don't agree that tig isn't in the realm of the HSM guy... a lot of people own tig machines now.
Russ, I guess that I allways just thought 7024 was like soupped up 6013 ya know 60xx vs 70xx. I'll have to get and try some.
On the tig topic...I was thinking more in terms of ( HSM 101 ) being a more (advanced) subject than a 101 course .I did not mean to imply HSM people can not or should not use or learn tig. In fact I'll come to class, it has been 30 something years since I have had formal instruction on tig.

Steve

[Smokedaddy]

Personally I was brought up on 5P or 5P+ (all position rod) and I really love that stuff ... but hated it initially (while learning). <grin> Love that Jetrod too!

Were can you purchase a homeshop type rod oven that cheap Torker?

-SD:

[torker]

SD...got mine from local Praxair...Gullco ..model 10A-20. Was about $135 when I bought it. I hear they're about $150 now.
Ya,,,you can use a toaster oven...but a real rod oven is so much nicer.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Thanks for the input fellers. I'll have to get some 70 series rods to play with. Sounds like they'll help a lot.

S/D thanks for the link...that's a fantastic website! Not just for welding but for almost everything I'm interested in.:D

[torker]

Dickie..I'll run a bit of 7024 later so you can see how purdy it is :D I always have a box of 3/32 on hand. I use it a lot on customers stuff that won't fit in the shop near enough to the wire machines. It looks really nice on bumpers etc.

[Smokedaddy]

Got our mural installed today at our school. Turned out super nice.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/101023439

-SD:

[dp]

When this thread started I thought it was a great idea, and now that this forum is available it's an even better idea. Torker, or should I say, Mr. School Master, what say we all put our heads together and put a bit of formality into the next phase with a curriculum of sorts, and some weld-at-home projects? This thread has wandered around the topic a bit as is typical of this chatty bunch, but interest is high all around. So what's next, teach?

[Smokedaddy]

Here's a weld at home project. I found some used expansion tanks from a chill water system, cut the ends off them, bent and welded some round stock on the perimeter. I’m using them for tiered a water fountain. Of course they're not finished yet.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/101060545

-SD:

[Smokedaddy]

Tried using this rod today. Just screwing around. I've never seen it before (not that it means anything).

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/101061361

The rod ...

Aladdin Products

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/101061362

I'm quite sure with a little (and I mean little) practice you could make a nice looking weld. This was my first shot ... yes I can do better.

-SD:

[pcarpenter]

Yeah-- that would appear to be yet another one of those rods like I first saw being sold by what I call one of those "infomercial guys" at a woodworking show. You always wonder if its right up there with a "Shamwow" or something:D

Years later I bought some in a tube at Harbor Freight. Its actually useful stuff. Properly, it should be called a brazing rod because it melts well before the base metal...at least in the case of aluminum. You do have to wire brush with a dedicated clean brush to help do away with the oxides. The stuff does have some fluxing agent in it though, I believe. They also have you keep stirring the rod at the base metal as the base metal just begins to soften. In a way you are scraping oxides off the base metal with the filler rod and keeping the filler rod down in the puddle of melted filler rod.

I had this (probably potmetal) Bridgeport knee elevation crank that came with my mill. The handle broke a big chunk out when it broke and some pinhead did some cludge weld of a washer on the backside. I was going to hack the whole end off and make a replacement end of round aluminum bar stock and solder it on with that stuff. Instead, I thought that good practice might be to solder it up first before cutting it back off...just to try it out.:D When I was done, I hit it with a belt sander and it finished up so nice that I could not justify cutting off the end and replacing it:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n16/pfcarpenter/Tooling/Kneeelevationhandle.jpg

[torker]

Guys...sorry... I am absolutely swamped with work right now. I'll hopefully be posting some pics of a bunch of tanks I'm building...fuel tanks 3'X4'X14" with bafflles...lotta weld in bungs etc. I'm wanting to do a pic show of the entire build of one but need the time. The first bunch are rush jobs.
I have new ideas...I'd really like to share some "heavy" fabrication techniques we use in the business. How to handle fit up problems and control warpage etc. I've never seen some of this stuff mentioned anywhere...could be a hit!
Got some more very interesting work coming up soon...another 20 ton core splitter...only twice the width.
Yawn...got another huge pile of fenceposts to build....yay ironworker!!!
And umm... to top that off...the old fab shop I worked at.. I may be going back there to run an afternoon shift as well...they are buggin me to no end.
But...the best news of all..."The Gurl" might be coming back :D. She'll be limited to what she can do on the floor but it'll be good to have the "office/quoting/ordering/finding my glasses" boss back again!
Russ

[Smokedaddy]

I finally got arround to taking a few images of 7024. I could of filled it out a touch more but I was simply trying to show how pretty this rod can be.

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/105467688/large

Big boy rod ... <smile>

http://www.pbase.com/smokedaddy/image/105467689

A crummy little video, with my crummy little cheap'o camera of me welding some 7024 on a coupon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXLFUmEldGE

-SD:

[torker]

SD...NICE! You gotta love 7024. You ever run it on straight polarity? It runs like glass.
I wish more beginners would try this instead of the ever constant 6013 ;)
Geez...I've been so bloody busy.. I haven't even had a chance to get to this welding thread.
I even bought a new camera..haven't had time to figure it out yet :D
Russ

[geb]

Not sure this is the correct place to ask this question.........but. ....Where did the 'Home Shop Welding 101' go?

Sounds like a fantastic idea. Hope it is still in the works.

Thanks
geb

[torker]

Geb..it'll be coming. I finally got a new camera...don't have all the bugs worked out yet...and am pretty busy in the shop. I was hoping HSM would be able to host pics here that wouldn't disappear but it seems that isn't possible.
When i came up with the idea I thought my help was coming back to the shop and would give me a bunch more free time. That never happened..now I'm on my third helper who has turned out pretty much useless....this one is going down the road soon so it'll be onto #4 pretty soon.
Russ