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View Full Version : Building a $5,000-6K brand new harley clone.



Dawai
07-24-2008, 02:06 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/PICT0406.jpg

This here.. a S&S set of cases, evo flywheels on the way, screaming eagle heads, new barrels, new wiseco pistons.. Somewhere around $3,000 invested. 80 cubic inches, 4.25 stroke, 3.4785 bore.. stock evo. Crank sets are $500, crank cases are around $850 cost..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/PICT0407.jpg
This is a Fatso style engine, a marriage of twin cam later model heads and barrels with a mucho plentiful EVO set of flywheels. Somewhere around $2100 to complete.. This one is around 107 cubic inches, 4.25 stroke by 4" bore.. Pistons are pricy, as are pushrods or, I might find a way to machine the heads.. the twin cam lower end has a straighter set of pushrods.. Minor alterations. ALL in the realm of home shop machinists.


Cheap engine scenario complete,

Transmissions, well the market has been flooded with Korean transmissions from Midwest motorcycle marketers.. jireh.com cycle supply has a bargain on these at times with a slight mark up.. I see them at dealer costs for $500.

Wheels? I see spoked wheels sales fliers from $89 to $2,000 each.. The lower end wheels are nice enough for this old country boy.. I jump mud puddles still with them..

Frame? well Midwest offers a softail replacement frame for around $600.. comes with MSO like the motors.. Rear section is a problem, they didn't make them for a while.. I see them from $100 to $400 for a wide one on ebay..

Pulleys, well about $100 for rear..

Front ends? well they vary from $400 for a wide glide style to a springer for $600 off ebay..

Oil tank? ($65 from a buddy)
Belts?
primary.. ($99 off ebay)
handlebars, (I paid $35)
tanks and fenders? (I paid $250 for heritage clone metal)

Plenty of lil parts from the front to the rear, mostly the customer chooses his own style and tastes.. cheap or expensive..

I rode a $6,000 bike for a year, sold it for a profit, then bought my first cnc milling machine. I had fun, still made money.. It was not a JUNK Motorcycle.. it got totalled out, the bud who bought it for $9500 got $18,500 from the insurance settlement..

I've still got greasy fingernails.. how about you??

garyphansen
07-24-2008, 02:21 PM
Mr. Cofer: Are there any problems insuring a home built bike? Gary P. Hansen

Dawai
07-24-2008, 04:39 PM
None with State farm.. they just insured a friends new custom.

gnm109
07-24-2008, 09:44 PM
I presume that you will license this as a "New Construction:" bike, right? It's nice to build a bike that way. If I were to do it, however, I would want a Harley-Davidson title.

Honestly, I think you are low on the cost of things. I'm rather familiar with bikes and your process looks good. I think it might cost the average person a bit more, however. In fact I am sure of it.

Apparently you are an insider and can get items at a discount. I used to be able to get 10% off from my favorite independent dealer and I favored him for about 15 years until he unfortnately passed on. The new owner is straight retail so there's no point in carrying on with him.

The Harley dealers where I am won't give a dollar off. In fact, it appears that the economic downturn has caught up with them as they are laying people off and have cut their stock as well.

I sold my 1982 Shovelhead a couple of years ago and now I have a 2004 HD Ultra Classic with a new HD sidecar so I'm still hanging in there. This is my third HD sidecar rig in the past 20 years but I've been riding them much longer than that.

I'm currently working on a prototype for a solenoid shifter for the bike and a reverse for the sidecar. These are available from the aftermarket but they are too pricey for me - $800 for a shifter and $1,500 for the internal reverse gear. It keeps me busy, anyway.

Keep up the good work. :)

Dawai
07-24-2008, 10:11 PM
The Harley dealers where I am won't give a dollar off. You are talking about tee shirts right? everything else has to be ordered. When I paid $100 for a set of rear brake pads I can now buy for $12? who am I going to be loyal to?

To title a motorcycle as a new harley, you must purchase a harley engine and frame.. From the dealers, a harley evo engine is approxmiately $2700... Now the frame, look out.. normally about two grand.

You kinda sound like a loyal ford owner.. kinda like a buddy of mine who bought a ford 500.. I told him it was a volvo design.. he is still mad at me. That's been a few years ago. Raise the hood on any american car, dodge, ford, chevy.. count american parts.

My loyalty is to 1)me now, 2)my family, 3)my county, 4)my country, 5)my friends. Sometimes I do switch the first two thou. Grown kids will suck you like a vampire if you let them thou. You gotta pay attention.

There are people all across the country that will sell you motorcycle parts for cost plus 15%.. enough of a purchase comes free shipping.. NORMAL prices are 100-160% mark up. Shop around, make friends.

I bought the neatest springer today for $395... I could not build one that cheap.

ahidley
07-25-2008, 07:52 AM
garyphansen The problem with insurance is that the insurance company has no way to figure a value for the bike. A home made bike is not listed in kelly blue book. So a certified apraisal, may, be acceptable. I believe that they need to be done each year. PITA


So when it gets stolen, smashed, drop a bucket of paint on it!, whatever happens the insurance company wants proof of value before they pay out.

Dawai
07-25-2008, 09:37 AM
Insurance is not a problem.. A friend has a 2000 roadking police model.. not worth a whole lot in the book.. but he has a 5,000 paintjob on it, loaded it with chrome.. and has it insured for 25k....

You have to shop around.. My road bike, a 97 roadking is only worth around $4700 on the blue book.. in the real world it is worth somewhere around 10k.. It is near 100% harley.. but the toys are not.

I got a deal right now in a shipment of ultima engines, 120 cubic inch engines are what a 80 is.. Around 4k delivered. ALL made in America internal parts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6JQv2MCq8c

You can do more with a engine than put it on a motorcycle.. I been thinking about the t-bucket in the back yard.. it'd be cheap since you'd not have to purchase that $700 radiator or.... well I got a front axle out of a amish haywagon..

Re-edited.....
By the way, I've found some reasonable pistons for the fatso 107 build.. Mahle makes them.. $169.. for a set.
BY the way

Your Old Dog
07-26-2008, 08:49 AM
The Harley dealers where I am won't give a dollar off. In fact, it appears that the economic downturn has caught up with them as they are laying people off and have cut their stock as well.



Are you familiar with an old friend of mine Jerry Ballard? He is in your neck of the woods near Sac and builds from Harley parts he finds at flea markets. He has several garages full of parts. It's all he does.

Dawai
07-26-2008, 11:10 AM
Check these toys out.. I am amazed that sporty motor will pull that phonebooth tee..


http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/05/harley_t_450.jpg
This morgan clone just excites me thou.

http://thekneeslider.com/images/cyclecar.jpg

No YOD: Don't know him.. there has been a slew of Home shop based motorcycle shops around my neighborhood that have put hand painted signs out thou. Times are getting tough here in gawgia.. I think some of the whites are competing with the mex's at the home depot..

I sold some stuff last week.. didn't end up making a nickel.. floating the money on the parts on a card, ya gotta race the money to the bank and get it paid off before it costs ya to sell stuff. (two farmers selling fruit, sells a truckload they bought for $5 a crate for $5.01 then finds out they didn't make a dime with the price of gas?) Then there is my wife, she still thinks since I have a grand in my pocket I ain't broke.

Another friend got foreclosed on.. lost their house they raised their kids in.. not good.. Most us all are three months from foreclosure if a disastor happens.

I found a source for the 113" rotating assemblies as cheap as the 80ci ($488) if you didn't have a set of 80s used flywheels.. and the same place for the big ole pistons ($169) Buying all new stuff that brings the build to about 3k thou on the HOTROD big incher. I can't buy a Onan engine that cheap.

I guess it takes a special kinda person to want a Nice and cheap motorcycle to ride

Dawai
07-26-2008, 11:23 AM
So when it gets stolen, smashed, drop a bucket of paint on it!, whatever happens the insurance company wants proof of value before they pay out.
David Cofer said:

I rode a $6,000 bike for a year, sold it for a profit, then bought my first cnc milling machine. I had fun, still made money.. It was not a JUNK Motorcycle.. it got totalled out, the bud who bought it for $9500 got $18,500 from the insurance settlement..

You had better determine proof of anything you insure, be it old Harley, new harley davidson or custom assembled Onan powered bicycle. When my 1976 FXE superglide less than 3 months old was stolen I lost about a grand.. it was not a happy day since I was making less than $5 a hour then.. I had to go around to get valuation estimates from the dealers I knew in the area to even get that from the insurance company. I had a sheet with a hand written note from each dealer saying my bike in it's new condition was worth so much $$.. I was a 19 year old they thought they could write off.. Lil did they know how stubborn I really am.

Ohh.. and *D*A* "me" insured that custom bike for 6k.. Lil did I remember or expect to make money off it.

Alistair Hosie
07-26-2008, 11:40 AM
My cousin bought an older bike here in the uk bike was worth about 2 grand or $4 grand dollars.he spent another 4 g's doing it up til it looked like a show model chrome everywhere.when it was stolen the insurance offered hi a grand for it they looked up the well used book price and that was that.Nothing he could do .It seems as though things are better then in the USA.Alistair

aboard_epsilon
07-26-2008, 12:07 PM
when you insure something like that ...
you take out agreed value insurance

the car or bike has to be inspected and valued ..

all the best.markj

madman
07-26-2008, 12:58 PM
David my fingernails are gritty dirty AND Greasy.

Dawai
07-26-2008, 03:14 PM
when it was stolen the insurance offered hi a grand for it they looked up the well used book price and that was that.Nothing he could do .It seems as though things are better then in the USA.Alistair

Insurance companies don't stay in business by paying out claims. Law requires you to have it, or a cash bond stored in a bank somewhere. THEM are crooks that legally are betting on they don't have to give you a nickel for your money.

Just ask the Katrina victims.. I quit my insurance company for another after that fiasco.

chief
07-26-2008, 11:54 PM
All my bikes are running and I thought I could spend the summer riding and avoiding the tool box, alas, a friend shows up with a van and says he needs help. Inside the van is a 66 FLH, I'll be in the shop if you need me.

rbregn
07-27-2008, 02:21 AM
The problem with Ultima is the cases is the cases are made in Korea and are soft, threads will pull , they are ok if you don't use all the horse power, same with their trannies. The way I ride I stick with Jim's, Baker, S&S, BDL. I would rather pay up front then blow stuff apart. For some people Ultima and similar brands and quality is more then enough. My luck I would build something like that and a gearhead would buy it a tear it up, then blame me!
Here is a nice old knuckle for ya!
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/jarhead1962/61.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/jarhead1962/52.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/jarhead1962/60.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/jarhead1962/59.jpg

not mine, just seen on a different forum. I think I may have to do something like that though:D

Dawai
07-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Made in USA stamped on the Ultima cases.. can you send me information on "where" they are made?? S&S is double priced (Never had a bad S&S part). for some builds, you cut corners where you can. I never try to cut quality thou. Help me out.. I was told by one person Delkron makes the cases. THE fit, and quality of finish is much refined as a set of delkron cases.. pretty.. lots of machining. pretty good appearing quality.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/UltimamadeinUSA.jpg

Help a brother out.. educate me.

Revtech is a Asian manufacturer. They also had Made in the USA at one time on their products. I figured out that before I spent my money. (I mean someone elses' money) I detest buying parts made in the USA and then find a china or other stamp on them. If I pay extra for USA label, I want USA parts.

I DO NOT LIKE Ultima's case bolts.. I much more like S&S's case studs that go all the way through.. and yes, steel threads hold a lot more than a bolt in aluminum. But there is very little pressure in that direction on a engine.. THE twin opposing timken bearings support the crankshaft and the pinion bearing supports the other side. A tight and line honed pinion makes a motor last ohh so much longer.

I love the "bug" with the knuckle engine.. ohh would I love to have that engine in a cut-down bobber thou.. They'd always leak oil like crazy thou..

I don't claim to know everything, I do ask for help when required I am not arrogant. This is what they advertise...
http://www.ultimaproducts.com/100engine.html

rbregn
07-29-2008, 04:48 AM
I was told by a dealer that Ultima products, altho say Made in USA, are like so many things, not necessarily so. He said they were Korean. Maybe not all of it, enough to still be called made in the USA. Maybe he was wrong. All I know is you can't get the raw materials for the price they are selling their stuff and you can bet they ain't in the charity business. I might have been thinking Rev-Tec when I said that about the cases. I knew they are a problem. Maybe it is just the internals, except where specified. I never had a ultima motor, but I was checking on a 6 speed tranny and heard to many horror stories about bad shifting and weak gears. I figure if one of there products is like that, why wouldn't the rest be like that. But like I said before, if you don't push it to the limit, it should be fine. I know how I drive and I build things accordingly, I figure my customers are the same! That keeps everyone happy. If they want to use the cheaper stuff there is already a guy in town selling it, they can go to him.
Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, sorry if I did:cool:

Dawai
07-30-2008, 06:20 AM
I think all the suppliers have "some" stuff that is pure junk. Try buying decent bolts to put a project together. Even the grade stamp is lying at times. Go to Lowes or Home depot and I assure you it will break way before it torques down.

Tractor Supply Corp... I been buying the ugly grade 5 bolts. Them and socket head allens from a machinery supply locally. Bolting down suspension parts on a hotrod will really make you think.

YES, the Ultima transmissions are pretty crappy, I've seen pictures of the gears that looks to be pourous and read them advertising about aluminum shifting forks. BUT they also sell a trans with Jims internals. Jims has been good stuff, high priced but. Those korean transmissions are $500 for a six speed. THE american 5 speed ones are over a grand. A baker is dlr cost at 2500.

For the average person who rides 1,000 miles a year one of them cheap transmissions would probably do just fine.

See the twin cam dealer take out cylinders on ebay for buy it now at $40. That'd get a cheap engine up and together.. the whole concept for doing it yourself. Seen some heads there near as cheap.

RancherBill
07-30-2008, 09:06 AM
My cousin bought an older bike here in the uk bike was worth about 2 grand or $4 grand dollars.he spent another 4 g's doing it up til it looked like a show model chrome everywhere.when it was stolen the insurance offered hi a grand for it they looked up the well used book price and that was that.Nothing he could do .It seems as though things are better then in the USA.Alistair

That is the catch with insurance. Probably when he bought the policy he purchased a policy for a 2000 pound bike with x kilometers. When the accident occurred, they depreciated the bike based on increased years and kilometers. That is fair. The insurance company was insuring a 2k bike not a 6k bike.

The only way around the problem is to buy a "new" policy for the value of the "new bike", 2k + 4K + labour = 10,000 pounds. You must get an mutually agreeable appraisal as to the new value and pay the premiums at that level.