PDA

View Full Version : Buying a MADE in The USA product that ain't (warning OT Hillbilly RANT)



Dawai
07-28-2008, 05:04 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/WiescomadeinTawian.jpg

I paid extra for these wiseco pistons, the wrist pin is labeled made in Tawian..

Too mad to spit. Ain't a wrist pin an important part?

DR
07-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I believe only 51% of an item has to be made here to be labeled as made in USA. At least that's the way it was years ago when I complained to some gov entity about a product that had foreign made bearings.

Not sure if the 51% would include labor dollars for assembly in USA.

x39
07-28-2008, 05:40 PM
That's about how I reacted when I discovered my Mason "Work America" boots were made in China. What a crock.

topct
07-28-2008, 05:56 PM
Send that picture to Wiseco.

x39
07-28-2008, 06:04 PM
Send that picture to Wiseco.
Better yet, send them a link to this thread.

S_J_H
07-28-2008, 06:28 PM
Hmmm.. sign of the times,
well Wiseco makes an excellent piston at a decent price so I would not worry to much about them fitting and using an inferior wrist pin. Can't say the last time I used a set of wiseco's( maybe 8 years ago) in one of my engines I remember seeing "made in taiwan" anywhere in the packaging though.
Eagle H beam rods are pretty decent and been around a while now and they are made in Taiwan. I've used them before too.
Maybe give them a call and ask how long they have been using pins from Taiwan.
Steve

John Stevenson
07-28-2008, 06:44 PM
Send that picture to Wiseco.

Why ? Suely it was their decision where the part was made, sending them a picture isn't going to change anything.

,

topct
07-28-2008, 06:56 PM
Why ? Suely it was their decision where the part was made, sending them a picture isn't going to change anything.

,

They might decide to not have that printing put on the package. Then this topic would not have come up.

CCWKen
07-28-2008, 07:10 PM
Well, as someone said to me; "You get what you pay for". That statement makes about as much sense as; "If you don't like it, make it yourself". Both may be true but they're still asinine. Especially when on the receiving end. The fact is, not much is made here anymore and what is cost too much in a Global Market. I would much rather have something made in Taiwan (ROC) than in the mainland China though.

Have you looked at "American made" cars lately? That 51% sure isn't by weight. Even the "only sports car made in America" has imported parts now.

tattoomike68
07-28-2008, 07:51 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/WiescomadeinTawian.jpg

I paid extra for these wiseco pistons, the wrist pin is labeled made in Tawian..

Too mad to spit. Ain't a wrist pin an important part?

Mic it first, if its good dont say jack. Some guy in the usa said he wanted wrist pins to X specs where he got them matters little. im sure you can buy total crap here in the USA too.

No dog on the big work on bikes, I would get a honda goldwing as my first choice.


I just told my woman if she dont like the stove she can change it, same deal.

Frank Ford
07-28-2008, 08:25 PM
Actually, I believe it's legal to call something "made in USA" even if virtually no part of it is actually made here - just as long as over 50% of the "value" is added here.

Back around 1980 the Martin guitar company contracted to have instruments made in Japan, and imported them unfinished, with the necks and bodies separate. They joined the parts, and lacquered them here, added a pickup and labeled them "Made in USA." They were standard Japanese guitars, no better nor worse than others, and a decent value a the time.

At my shop we took a fairly hard line and refused to stock them year after year until finally they got the message from various respected dealers, and changed the label to read "Assembled in USA from imported components," or something like that. We asked the production guys why they didn't make more inexpensive instruments here, and he was very upfront, saying that times were really hard then, and as soon as they could afford the CNC gear, they would do exactly that. True to their words, they did dive headlong into CNC production, quit the offshore stuff, and we're all happier as a result.

.RC.
07-28-2008, 08:27 PM
I have bought a Caterpillar part that says Made in USA on the carton and the part says Made in China..

Dawai
07-28-2008, 08:38 PM
Piston looks like a jewel... pretty.. bright.. was wrapped in a wax like paper like a washington apple. Hastings rings look good.

Piston is true to tolerance, I just mic'ed them. Fit the new OE cylinders just fine. Piston pins, well the pistons must be warmed to press fit into them. THE wrist pin bushings in the rods must be lapped in to fit the pins.

I emailed them while I was still angry. Note to self.. don't burn bridges or piss on neighbors.

I think, pistons are made in USA.. pins are imported.. they do have a world wide company now thou it says on the website.. MADE IN USA in more than one spot thou.

Hell, I am still angry.. Not really fair.. when you try to buy american you get baited and switched.

PTSideshow
07-28-2008, 10:06 PM
Part of the problem is they have gotten slick with words. Some packages are the only thing made in the USA on some of the stuff. If a number of items are assemble to another item as had been said added value in the USA. It can be called Made in the USA. When you contact the factory overseas they ask about packaging or bulk packaging. So it is a crap shoot, anymore as I have had name brand American made tools that were junk.
The Toyota has more American made content parts than the big 3. And made in Canada or Mexico is not the same thing as Made in the USA.
So you have to be able to make an informed buying decision.
:D

dp
07-28-2008, 10:15 PM
Call these guys and buy their product: http://www.bmeltd.com/Wristpin.htm

lazlo
07-29-2008, 12:05 AM
I just bought a pair of Bessey clamps from J&L -- the expensive yellow cantilever clamps. Same price. Made in China :mad:

oldtiffie
07-29-2008, 12:28 AM
From an investment/cost/risk/profit point of view it makes more sense to be a dealer/distributor/etc. and be a "Trader/Shop-keeper" just putting on your margin/mark-up and "clicking tickets" than it is to set up a manufacturing enterprise where you are at the mercy of you raw stock suppliers and customers (probably only a few).

I have a Ford car. If parts are to Ford or equivalent standards (if required) I buy them - irrespective of source.

Some "home" shops and factories/mills etc. have conditions that some Third World countries would baulk at.

And how do you know that any raw material/stock is "home" sourced - even if the finished product is "home-made"? How do you know that all that work in that "home" shop are USA citizens or that any profit and wages are not going out of the USA?

If "Starret" and the like can import stuff and still charge - and get - a premium based on the name they deservedly earned all those years ago - why can't others?

gmatov
07-29-2008, 03:49 AM
oldtiffie,

My own view, near enough.

Sell me a US made product, I will pay for it.

Sell me a matsu****a (Panasonic) VCR with GE or RCA on the face plate, panasonic on the back, screw you. I will sooner pay a Panasonic worker to haul that thing around the warehouse, after some Japanese employees have made a living, than I will to buy one from a company with a receiving warehouse, who shuffles stuff around with a forklift, load trucks while the wheels count their profits from all them workers they don't need

Was at HD this evening, looking at Husky tools. Curious. 90% at least marked "Hecho en Chine". Prices about 5 times what Horror Freight charges. Horror Freight is not facing bankruptcy, HD and Lowes are having money problems.

Horror Freight, I break something, take it back, they don't ask questions, give me another, if they have to break open a 99 piece set, and I get a 5/16 socket from it.Inconvenient, but you got the same with Kennametal, Iscar, whoever. Them you gotta go through the hoops to get a warranty, if there is one, honored.

Serious business people, mebbe you have to buy NAMES. HS SS, you probably can wait a day or so, go to the store and get it replaced immediately.Made in China on something with US logo on it, screw you. I think you are charging me your premium for your name on it, regardless the source.

Cheers,

George

oldtiffie
07-29-2008, 07:22 AM
George.

Funny you should mention GE.

They, like Ford, GM, Toyota etc. etc. all or mostly make more from their finance arms than they do from their manufacturing arms. A lot of the employment is hard arduous soul-destroying assembly-line repetitious work that is not able to be done as well or as cheaply as robotics.

So, their finance arms make a motza with few people (and no machinists at all) and many on the production line "tread-mill" are process-workers or machine attendants. They screw their suppliers at one end and their customers at the other.

Its their own damn fault if they are too slow and not as agile or as smart as the (mainly) "over-seas" competition.

And does anyone know or is able or cares to monitor just where those parts made by "others" are made or sourced from?

GM is struggling here but does very well in the car and engine export market. GM is closing one of its older engine plants. Ford is doing it tough and has closed one plant and perhaps another. Toyota is going gang-busters!! Mitsubishi has closed its manufacturing plant.

Toyota "caught the wave" and the others relied on old technology and practices as well as tariffs but it caught up with them - big time.

There is some irony in that the "winners" of WW2 (USA, UK OZ NZ etc.) are almost in the "rust-belt" as regards industry and the budget deficiencies whereas the "losers" (Japan, Europe and Asia) "knuckled down", "bit the bullet", developed a long-term plan and th necessary commitment and discipline to "do it" and started from scratch in just about every aspect - and now look where they are!! Korea, Malaysia, Taiwan, India and Eastern Europe have "seen the light" as well and are likewise "getting on with getting on with it".

I'd be more concerned about choking in their dust before I choked in their pollution.

We are lucky here in OZ as the sale of mining/mineral/hydro-carbon product has largely - but not entirely - sheltered us from the extremes and deficits of others as we have had many large local budget surpluses recently but are a bit behind in our "Terms of Trade" (ie deficit as a percentage of GDP)- which while large, is "manageable").

Just Bob Again
07-29-2008, 09:22 AM
I'm more concerned with the fairness of the product than the "made in" sticker. China has artificially low labor rates and heavy subsidies. So do American farm products for that matter. I'd rather buy from places that treat people nicely, but not much choice economically. Much of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia where they treat women like cattle and chop of people's heads. Gonna stop driving? I wish I had a good answer.

Yes, things should be truthfully labeled so you can make the choice. Let's start with stuff made here like food. They load it up with toxic garbage and the laws say they can lie to you. Been a long time since I saw a sticker on anything that said "Union Made". Remember those?

Lew Hartswick
07-29-2008, 10:17 AM
Much of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia where they treat women like cattle and chop of people's heads. Gonna stop driving? I wish I had a good answer.

Something like 17% or less. I don't think I'd call that " much".
...lew...

oldtiffie
07-29-2008, 10:37 AM
Try Africa - its really tough there!!! Or has everybody forgotten or ignored what it happening there where a huge mount of hydro-carbons and minerals come from and "civil rights" seems to be a non-issue.

Alistair Hosie
07-29-2008, 01:09 PM
Dave take it easy America owns taiwan don't they??:p Alistair

oldtiffie
07-30-2008, 03:48 AM
Or is it "America "owes" Taiwan"?

And which will collect/pay its IOU's?

gnm109
07-30-2008, 06:20 AM
Actually, I believe it's legal to call something "made in USA" even if virtually no part of it is actually made here - just as long as over 50% of the "value" is added here.

Back around 1980 the Martin guitar company contracted to have instruments made in Japan, and imported them unfinished, with the necks and bodies separate. They joined the parts, and lacquered them here, added a pickup and labeled them "Made in USA." They were standard Japanese guitars, no better nor worse than others, and a decent value a the time.

At my shop we took a fairly hard line and refused to stock them year after year until finally they got the message from various respected dealers, and changed the label to read "Assembled in USA from imported components," or something like that. We asked the production guys why they didn't make more inexpensive instruments here, and he was very upfront, saying that times were really hard then, and as soon as they could afford the CNC gear, they would do exactly that. True to their words, they did dive headlong into CNC production, quit the offshore stuff, and we're all happier as a result.


Yeah, but they're slipping again and making part of their stock in Mexico. It makes me value the ones I have that were made in America all the more.


.

Dawai
07-30-2008, 06:24 AM
So the new disclaimer will be.. made with parts in "USA GAWGIA" from parts sources unknown.

Adding value to a part? does that mean wholesale to dealer retail markup?

Try buying a made in America flag.. ha.. I didn't buy one this year to hang out at the 4th. My crazy dog ate the one from last year.