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Thomas Staubo
08-16-2008, 07:18 PM
I saw an ad for this old Swedish made milling machine, and I can get it for not much money.
The only problem is that I don't really have room for this type of large and heavy thing now, I would probably have to store it some place meanwhile.

It's from the late fifties, and looked interesting to me because of the vertical milling attachment that you can see mounted on the machine. I don't know how common those are. There is power feed on both X and Y axis.

According to seller everything works, but it has not been used for a long time and there is some rust as the pictures show, and it should be dismantled and reconditioned.

Table length: 120cm (47")
Height: about 150cm (59")
Weight: about 1000kg (2200lbs)

The weight seems a bit heavy to me for this size, but I don't know really.

Spindle taper is unknown. I can take a guess at Morse taper, because that seems very common in Swedish machines (maybe not in the horizontal spindle).
I have not seen it in person.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5377/75519626271bt5.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6462/75485284395ng4.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8906/75266918744cs6.jpg

What do you think? Is it a usable machine for a home shop? :)


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Ken_Shea
08-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Of course it could be useful in the home ship Thomas.
Couple things to think about is, are you up to a re-condition and where you have to store it, is there electric and room to work on it ?, is it close by ?.
The fact that you are not ready for it could provide the needed time for the re-conditioning.

It would be a job for sure, depending on what condition it is really in upon inspection but you would have a very rugged piece of equipment for sure. Horizontal machines are not as versatile as a pure vertical but that issue mat be minimized with the vertical attachment, although it looks to be of secondary use and would not be as versatile as a dedicated vertical.

Down the road you may find yourself wanting a more traditional vertical milling machine so will you have room for both at that time ?

If question the room you may have then it may be wise to look / wait for a dedicated vertical machine.

Ken

lazlo
08-16-2008, 08:06 PM
That's a neat machine -- never heard of Sajo before. It's got a universal table, which often meant it was for a toolroom environment. Am I seeing the picture right that it has a universal overarm mount too (a vertical spindle that rotates via a spiral bevel gear)? If so, that's really cool!

But like Ken says, it's going to be a lot of work to restore it -- looks like it was stored outside...

Mark McGrath
08-16-2008, 08:10 PM
Nice little machine.It is a universal mill.Weight will be at least 1000kg`s.Looks older than late fifties to me but may just be the mess it`s in.If the price is right it would be a nice starter machine although you may have problems finding morse taper arbours for horizontal milling if it is indeed a morse spindle.
Mark.

Greg Menke
08-16-2008, 08:16 PM
Get it, fix it, use it, keep it... :)

You can do all kinds of stuff with a machine like that. The envelope will be smaller than something like a Bridgeport, but this machines convertible nature will allow a wide variety of setups and tooling.

Looks kind of old for a mid-50's machine but you never know. 2200 lbs might be a little high but not much, certainly will weight lots more than 1/2 that. Looks like the base might be a coolant recovery reservoir- if so it could be packed full of chips and rotten coolant.

Regards,

Greg

rockrat
08-16-2008, 08:20 PM
Almost all small and medium sized machines are good home shop machines. Given that they fit your capability. Keep in mind,
1-Can you move it or have it moved.
2-Are you willing to give her the TLC she needs so that she can do what you want
3-For you specifically, can you afford to store it and then have it for later

Sure there are pitfalls. You may find that the taper is such that you just cant find new or used tooling for it. Can you make some? If so, do you want to spend the time to make it? I have found that sometimes making the tooling is either the best time of my life or the worst. Motor working? Etc.....

Personally, if I could get it and move it home for $100 +/- a bit, I would buy it and have a rainy day project.

In the end, its back to you and your wants/needs.

I do like the milling attachment..... Cool.

rock~

Thomas Staubo
08-16-2008, 09:10 PM
Thanks for your answers and advice!

Well, the seller advertised it as a universal mill, and before Lazlo commented on the universal table I didn't see that it can swivel, but it sure looks like it. That's cool!

There is some tooling with the mill, "some collets and equipment for keyways", whatever that means.

Maybe it looks older than it is simply because Sweden was lagging behind a bit, it may be a pre-war design made well after the war?
It has been stored indoors, but has been put outside under a tarpaulin for the last week or so.

Sajo is still in business: http://www.sajo.se/ making CNC machines now.
And there is a separate company, Sajo Service (http://www.sajoservice.se/) who have spare parts for machines from the fifties and onwards.

The price is low so I maybe can get it scrapped (god forbid!) and get the same amount back if it turns out to be a hopeless case.


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lazlo
08-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Sajo is still in business: http://www.sajo.se/ making CNC machines now.

Shoot them an email, with some pictures. I bet they'd be willing to help identify the machine, and may even have some manuals! :)

chrsbrbnk
08-19-2008, 12:39 AM
we had a slightly bigger version of that sajo at the shop I work for as I recall it had a standard mill taper in the horizontal, good rigid mill, straight forward electrics and gearing we would proable still have it if the idiot running it had kept oil in the lube unit.

derekm
08-19-2008, 05:32 AM
Thanks for your answers and advice!
....
Well, the seller advertised it as a universal mill, and before Lazlo commented on the universal table I didn't see that it can swivel, but it sure looks like it. That's cool!

There is some tooling with the mill, "some collets and equipment for keyways", whatever that means.

.....

.
Could mean it also has a slotting attachment -a sort of vertical shaping attachment- a very good find indeed

hardtail
08-19-2008, 10:35 AM
I would think how equipped it would be very useful, almost the perfect size for a HS, snatch it up and figure which buddy can store it for abit.........

camdigger
08-19-2008, 11:00 AM
Yes, this is a versatile, useful machine If it's in serviceable condition. From what I see, it is unlikely that it might run without a lot of TLC - something I would not tackle. I want to run my machines, not work on them interminably.
My $.02

lazlo
08-19-2008, 11:56 AM
Could mean it also has a slotting attachment -a sort of vertical shaping attachment

You know, with that universal table, and the table power feed driven off the spindle, and that slick rotating vertical adapter, I bet that machine was set up for spiral cutting.

If there're any storage compartments in the pedestal, check for a universal dividing head! :)

Thomas Staubo
08-19-2008, 01:02 PM
Yes, this is a versatile, useful machine If it's in serviceable condition. From what I see, it is unlikely that it might run without a lot of TLC...

I have not seen this machine in person yet, and still have some more days to decide if I will go for it.

I know it's difficult (impossible maybe) to say just from some low-res pictures, but what do you think is a minimum amount of work needed to get this up and running, if nothing is broken (there probably is some things that's stuck and/or broken). Not counting "restoring" visual appearance to former glory,as that varies according to how much work one wants to put in it.

Fixing the ways which seems rusty is one of my concerns.
And if let's say the spindle bearings are bad, how difficult could that be to fix?

I just want to hear some advice from someone who has done some similar work (as an amateur primarily).

---

In my first post I said that it had power feed on both X and Y direction, but I can't see how the Y slide is powered in the pictures so I'm not sure it has one, but it might just be me who are clueless about how this should function.


With.. ..table power feed driven off the spindle
Yes, it seem to have feed ratios from 0,06 to 1,9 times the spindle speed.
It translates to: "Feed speed 1m/m at one revolution of the spindle"
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7806/75799727215qe0.jpg



Could mean it also has a slotting attachment
It would be really cool, but I doubt it. I personally think "equipment for keyways" is amateur word for the milling cutters, which have a key way in them to be driven on a horizontal arbour.



PS. Please correct me if I write some wrong English, as I'm not too good about it (built in spell checker in Firefox helps a bit :) ).

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Thomas Staubo
08-19-2008, 02:02 PM
we had a slightly bigger version of that sajo at the shop I work for as I recall it had a standard mill taper in the horizontal...

By "standard mill taper" would you mean something like the NMTB 30 and 40 Taper, or... ?


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chrsbrbnk
08-19-2008, 06:54 PM
I thought a 30

Greg Menke
08-19-2008, 11:03 PM
An inspection will tell for sure but it looks mostly just dirty. The rust as it appears is of little account- but try to avoid operating the slides over it (so no full traversals, just see if stuff is frozen or not).

The spindle being 30 or 40 taper would be good news, BS#9 or other maybe not so much.

A minimum amount of work would be to pull the overarm, table, clean inside & out. Unearth all lube points, dig out the goo (would be good to fully disassemble around them to really get them clean- but its not always easily done). Then some judicious disassembly to examine the spindle to check for lubrication, re-establish preload, measure runout. Probably will need new belts and electrics.

I'd pull the knee as well and thoroughly clean it too.

I got a Nichols horizontal and did the above list, then repainted. Had to do some repair but nothing exotic, the whole process took a few months of several evenings per week and the occasional weekend day.

All that said, its a risk- you might find the spindle bearings wrecked or the main motor missing, or the machine might be near pristine. There is no guarantee the machine will work out well in the long run even if its working. But if you like to tinker and the machine isn't a disaster then I think you'll find it very satisfying, particularly once you get it running.

Greg

lazlo
08-19-2008, 11:36 PM
And if let's say the spindle bearings are bad, how difficult could that be to fix?

I've replaced the spindle bearings on most of my machines and several workheads, both tapered roller bearings and angular contact bearings. It's not a big deal. Just keep things clean, and make sure to mark the high spot on the spindle when you remove the old bearings.

The only gotcha might be getting the bearings themselves. Precision Tapered roller bearings, in particular, are no longer mass produced -- they're build to order, so a Class 0 (ABEC-7) tapered roller cup and cone is ridiculously expensive.

If it's just a "normal" metric angular contact bearing pair, they're readily available, especially on Ebay.