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Bguns
10-07-2008, 04:02 AM
If you want to post an Off Topic Post, how about a Off Topic Forum, So I can Ignore It... ?

5 OT Posts just on this screen view of 20 posts.....

Really,

I Can Get any sort of Political Crap I need off of other places on the Internet.

This is a Home Shop Machinist Forum, not Oprah.com.

Stick to the Subject Matter, or go elsewhere...

Fed Up, Retired GI....

Norman Atkinson
10-07-2008, 04:25 AM
Bguns,
Sad to think that you are doing precisely what you don't want the rest of us to do.

Your Nom de guerre is 'military' your refence to conclude is 'GI' which reinforces your earlier military connection.

If a concentration towards 'machining', you are not helping.

It's no different than me prattling on about my time in the mob.
'Tally ho- Roger and out?'

Goldstar

R W
10-07-2008, 04:42 AM
If you don't want to read an OT then ignore it.

derekm
10-07-2008, 04:53 AM
Because they masqerade as either Non-political OT and then get political
A death or accident its then on death of children and then before you know its abortion.
...
or its on topic and it gets dragged off to politics... topic moves to safety and then its the Fedral Gov is trying to takeover the world...
...

Norman Atkinson
10-07-2008, 05:15 AM
Do you think that I could start the topic about the punters here who cannot be arsed to research earlier answers to topics or yet another about those who steadfastly refuse to put their hands in their pockets and buy decent text books?

If and I wrote if, this all happened, there would be the square root of f***all to make up the forum.

Bguns
10-07-2008, 05:17 AM
Yes, Retired Military,
Yes, I was cutting Spur Gears on a Van Norman Before Military Service,

Yes I make a living running old ancient Machinery Made before Me...

Yes I repair many Things, (Including, GASP Firearms, and am Federally Permitted to do so )

Yes I can Ignore OT's, But they seem to consume 25% of available postings...

No Black Helo's or such around here...

Just a working Stiff... that uses things I see here at work.. Thanks to Sir John, AND THE MANY OTHERs...

LAST time I was In England/France was for the 50th of D Day

Edit: And a fond place in my Heart for Avie and his Mates :) Always a Ground Pounder...

Hope I have helped a few, with my own feeble postings :)

DickDastardly40
10-07-2008, 05:42 AM
I have a divided opinion on this.

I sympathise with Bguns, there do seem to be many OT posts, many of which seem to run off course.

If I have a non-machining related question I would rather ask people on the fora which I post and whom I know and trust, than join 'which-coffee-and-salted-watermelon.net' as a newbie and get replies like 'here we go again.'

My personal opinion is that a little more active moderation might help, not just locking threads which have spiralled out of all help, but steering threads so that they do not.

I mean no disrespect to anybody in my opinions, the sole moderator has a onerous task, which could be made easier by less inflamatory postings.

I come here to glean machining advice and ideas and dispense whatever help I can for whatever it's worth. If I have to put up with a number of OT threads to sift through to gain that then I guess so be it.

Al

Bguns
10-07-2008, 05:47 AM
Never given you any info :)

Really,
If it relates to machining its fine, otherwise, hit the Net for entertainment ..

If I know something (machining related), and anybody needs that info, If I am here, I will help, (as best as a Poor Alaskan can) :) ...

An Off Topic Forum Might get the Monkey off the back, of the USEFULL INFO...

G.A. Ewen
10-07-2008, 08:20 AM
Having an "Off Topic" section is a good idea IMHO. The "Networking" section is rarely used so why not just change it to OT? There are plenty of reasonable members of this forum that could moderate an OT section if the need arises.

It would give a kind of "order" to things. It is unlikely that many of this forums members have their drill bits mixed up with their endmills or use oil containers as book ends. Some things are better if kept separated.

MickeyD
10-07-2008, 08:26 AM
When you combine the very dynamic times that we are in (two wars, an economy trying to decide if it wants to dump us back into the dark ages, a historic political event in the US presidential election) with a group of vocal people who are coming into this with many different perspectives and positions, you are bound to get some fireworks. I am actually amazed at how civil this has all stayed here, we discuss, argue some, but then come back together with our ontopic discussions. I got a haircut last week at my barbershop (the real kind with bass fishing and hunting magazines and antlers on the wall) and I thought the barber and a customer would come to blows because a discussion about Palin got so heated, so we are not alone here.

I think that a lot of it comes from nobody really knows what is going to happen and everyone is looking for some answers, reassurance, and a little comfort that everything really will be alright. The politics will settle down in a month or so, and we will either weather the economic storm or will all be to busy digging for roots to eat or shoes to boil to hang out here.

Dawai
10-07-2008, 09:16 AM
A "CHAT" forum, Like they did at Metalmeet.. it clears up the "on topic" lists.

Their chat forum, deletes after "no activity" for a day.. Meaning "granny's warts on her toes" does not hold the same esteem in archives as a informative post on cutting threads or.....

I can think of only one post here I archived in pdf. It is now lost in the sea of "other things".

I'm so upset by politics at the moment I need drugs daily. No matter who gets elected, I'll probably have a drug habit to break. I don't need it rubbed in my face here too.

THE OFF TOPIC makes people "talk" and become friends.. Or enemies.. it has a place, it's hard to recruit people to teach machining if you don't offer them entertainment.. SOME BS is not entertainment thou. Politics, Hitler, bloody pictures probably have no place here.

Carld
10-07-2008, 09:19 AM
I just don't see the problem with OT's. I read the subject line and if interested click on the thread. If the opening post is of no interest I back out and move to the next thread.

At no time have I had anyone forcing me to read an OT thread. This is a subject that comes up from time to time and it is puzzling to me why it is a problem to anyone.

The only thing I can conclude is, those that don't like OT's have more curiosity than they need and can't control themselves to NOT open an OT thread.

With that said I don't read every thread on any forum site. If the subject line is of no interest I don't open it.

BTW bguns, you should have had OT in your subject line for this thread.

Dawai
10-07-2008, 09:24 AM
Carl, some people don't like their foods touching either.. hence the plates with the dividers..

I don't like turnip green juice on my mashed potatoes.

Carld
10-07-2008, 09:31 AM
Life is as it comes. There are things worth complaining about and things best left alone.

If OT's bother a person they should not read them.

If mixed food bothers you don't eat it.

torker
10-07-2008, 09:50 AM
Life is as it comes. There are things worth complaining about and things best left alone.

If OT's bother a person they should not read them.

If mixed food bothers you don't eat it.
I have NOTHING to add! Well said..

smiller6912
10-07-2008, 09:55 AM
My thoughts are, a separate forum would be a good idea if for no other reason than to make the site more appealing to new and potential users. We tend to be a fairly tight group here and can, somewhat reasonably, chat about most anything, however, our hosts are in business to make a dime and attract new users. I don't want to inundate newbies with our off topic chatter in the main theme forum and potentially run them off. We could be running off a wealth of experience and knowledge.

But, hey, that's just me............

A.K. Boomer
10-07-2008, 10:05 AM
BTW bguns, you should have had OT in your subject line for this thread.




Well said Carld --- There is an extra amount of OT posts, esp. political but please try and add 2 and 2 together and realize that there is a presidential election coming up soon with an economy thats crashing:rolleyes: Since "most" of the posters here are american (including Bguns) you might want to add that to the 2 and 2 if you have a calculator near bye --- I welcome the OT's, keeps this place from drying up -- sorry -- pure machine talk all the time is about as much fun as watching paint dry --------- dont tell me to go someplace else -- you want all machine talk? you go someplace else...
There are people Iv come to trust over the years - right here in the "general" forum, I like hearing what they have to say with other things that one would think isnt even related to machining -- in someways it helps me even understand the vast differences in the machining/technique approaches themselves so therefore is related...
The one thing I do get sick of is the insipient whining about the whining, Now your not accomplishing anything, now your just a "victim", A victim that wants to repeat the same mistake that he's complaining about and have the audacity to not even label it O-T --------- Im not whining about it though -- Im looking at it as an opportunity to tell you to Grow a nut sac.

BobWarfield
10-07-2008, 11:10 AM
I like to think of HSM as the OT board for all the rest of the machining forums. If we take OT's away here, they'll just go to the other boards, which would be a bad thing.

Cheers,

BW

Willy
10-07-2008, 11:22 AM
Carld and A.K. Boomer have both expressed my sentiments on the subject very well.
I came here mainly for the machining content and there is plenty of excellent knowledge shared here daily, usually more than I can absorb, and if I need more, the archives are a gold mine of info that has almost never failed to answer my questions.
However after trusting the knowledge of the board members here to guide me through so many subjects machining related, I have developed a "relationship" of trust and respect with them. Whether I call them "brothers" or "friends" is irrelevant, I respect their opinions...not that I always agree with them. It is because of this respect that I also like to hear their opinions on other subjects, much as i don't talk strictly shop with the people I work with.

neonman
10-07-2008, 11:41 AM
--- Original title ---

Ditto! I agree, I find I'm frequenting this boards a lot less than I used to because of the content free OT opinion and EBAY stuff.

It seems folks are on break a lot more lately, and doing less in the shop.
Is the hobby just becoming boring?

Neonman

Mad Scientist
10-07-2008, 11:48 AM
Carld and A.K. Boomer have both expressed my sentiments on the subject very well.
I came here mainly for the machining content and there is plenty of excellent knowledge shared here daily, usually more than I can absorb, and if I need more, the archives are a gold mine of info that has almost never failed to answer my questions.
However after trusting the knowledge of the board members here to guide me through so many subjects machining related, I have developed a "relationship" of trust and respect with them. Whether I call them "brothers" or "friends" is irrelevant, I respect their opinions...not that I always agree with them. It is because of this respect that I also like to hear their opinions on other subjects, much as i don't talk strictly shop with the people I work with.

I second that.

MickeyD
10-07-2008, 11:51 AM
It slows down a lot during the summer. The folks in the frozen north can finally go outside and it is too hot for us southerners to spend too much time out in the shop. There are about three months here where it is still up in the 90's in the shop at midnight so you spend more time wiping up sweat drips than actually making anything. Folks seem to start ramping up projects in November that taper out during the summer.

lazlo
10-07-2008, 12:02 PM
When you combine the very dynamic times that we are in (two wars, an economy trying to decide if it wants to dump us back into the dark ages, a historic political event in the US presidential election) with a group of vocal people who are coming into this with many different perspectives and positions, you are bound to get some fireworks.

Mike nailed it -- we all spend a lot of time "together" here, all have strong opinions about the election and the train-wreck of the world's economies, and most importantly, we're all right :D

On the other hand, point taken -- I'm personally going to stay out of the political and finance discussions, although I can't help but reply to technology-related items like RFID :)

kendall
10-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I think the OT posts add a lot to the forum, I'd say a good chunk of the people here don't mind OT posts with loose limits, I base that on having read a lot of them and seeing that most of the actual contributors to the boards stated purpose also post in the OTs, it's not like there's a very small group of people posting to the OTs, or just a few who take the take the topic to a different direction. I feel if someone's taking the time to post to an OT, they're reading it so they must have an interest.

It's fine as it is, the 'passing interest' members quit posting and the thread dies on it's own, if it's an interesting thread it stays alive for a while.

If you don't like OT skip it when you see the OT.

Ken.

gregl
10-07-2008, 03:06 PM
I find the OT threads fun and adding spice to the mix. If you don't want to read them, don't.

There is another machining board out there where the moderator is very heavy-handed, with no sense of humor, and who always seems to jump in with what he considers The Definitive Answer to any question. There is Only One Way, his way, and he regularly reminds readers of his vast and extensive experience to the point of odiousness. He takes himself way too seriously. And the resulting traffic on that board has slowed to a snail's pace. It's just no fun to post or read there any more. I'd hate to see that happen here.

Your Old Dog
10-07-2008, 03:11 PM
I look at this forum like a retiree looks at a McDonald's restaurant at 10 am in the morning. Only difference is, we all have a serious interest in machining. But that doesn't mean we only discuss machinery over our cup of coffee and breakfast bagel. We talk about whatever the conversation strays towards.

If you don't like OT's the option is truly yours to avoid them. Just don't participate. As for post turning political? I refuse to no longer remain silent while someone takes a slam at all I hold dear. I now speak up. Seems there is a certain group of folks who feel they freely launch an attack against a specific country, politician, religion or whatever. To me, an attack on any of these subjects is not much difference then an attack on my wife. Expect to get some lip back. Expect some of us to defend them or the ideals they represent.

I have also found that a lot of us have similar interest such as firearms, photography and woodworking?

Fasttrack
10-07-2008, 03:17 PM
Sometimes OT posts are interesting since we all have at least one thing in common - we like machining. Internet forums specifically for politics are vague sort of places where you have no idea who you are arguing with. The HSM seems to be a tighter-knit bunch so when I am arguing with a member, I have an idea of who he (or she) is. Plus, like I mentioned, we all have at least one element that "unites" us. It makes arguing more interesting. Instead of hearing the view point of some internet junky who spends his whole life reading about whacko conspiracy theories, we hear the opinions of "ordinary" folks.

Sometimes they do get carried away. Too many personal attacks, imo. I like the idea of using the Networking board as an OT board.

But then, there are some OT posts that really not OT at all. Like posts about Live Steam, painting aluminum, etc. They are not specific to machining, but they are appropriate for a "Home Shop Machinist Forum" since most home shops dable in a little bit of everything.

Of course, in the end it is entirely up to villiage press and George Bulliss


edit: Exactly what YOD said! I view the board in much the same way you do. :)

George Bulliss
10-07-2008, 04:29 PM
There has been talk in the past about setting aside an area for OT threads. I have given some thought to it but I donít think we will be doing it anytime soon. I have several reasons, but mainly because this is a hobby machining site and I would like to keep it that way. Village Press has nothing to gain by hosting a site full of political and religious rants; there are plenty of other places to do that anyway. An OT forum would attract a whole new breed of member, and bring along a whole new bunch of headaches.

I would hope that anyone that stumbles across this site while looking for help with their new hobby would find this site useful. There is a ton of great info here, along with plenty of knowledgeable members willing to help. OT threads that get nasty or start to dominate the board are likely to drive people away. I would a least like them to stay long enough to learn about Village Press and maybe buy a subscription or two.

I have no problem with OT posts in general. When I worked in shops, I certainly didnít spend my entire day talking about machining and I wouldnít expect you guys to limit yourselves to just machine related topics. So, for now itís business as usual. I will try to balance the OT threads by locking when necessary or when I have had enough of a subject (really, what more can be said about gas cans?).

George

speedy
10-07-2008, 04:56 PM
Good for you George.
And if we did have an OT forum? God forbid that anyone should introduce machinery matters into that area for fear of criticism:p

We are living in interesting times and OT will feature more or less. Harder times are ahead.
I am getting accustomed to preparing my sandwhiches without butter....or jam!

Your Old Dog
10-07-2008, 08:44 PM
I hope we don't turn into a forum that has a sub-forum for every topic under the sun. I wouldn't like check into the Left Hand Thread Forum because I was looking to follow an artical that I found in the Shaper Section..... or was that the Square Hole Drill Bit Forum? I guess there are three sections on this board but I have never looked anywhere but here.

[quote=Fasttrack] .....................Sometimes they do get carried away. Too many personal attacks, imo. I like the idea of using the Networking board as an OT board. ................. [quote]

In general I don't think I can agree with you on the personal bickering with the exception of Lazlo beating on Evan. I like'em both and it's upsetting to see the rift. Hell, from what I've witnessed, even Wolf has made a major effort though his a$$ still sucks buttermilk :D JUST KIDDING WOLFIE !

wierdscience
10-07-2008, 09:02 PM
I've been here long enough to know that ANYTHING and I do mean ANYTHING OT or not can turn into a knock down drag out arguement/flame war.

I remember one about center drills-vs-spotting drills,on topic,but a flaming castle seige.

So long as we keep it civil there isn't anything wrong with OT posts.

Mad Scientist
10-07-2008, 10:02 PM
So long as we keep it civil there isn't anything wrong with OT posts.

So true!
There is nothing wrong with arguing for a point that you believe to be correct.
But one needs to listen and consider opposing arguments, just on the chance, you might not be correct. :o
However as soon as you allow a debate to disintegrate into name calling then you have lost the argument

JRouche
10-07-2008, 10:29 PM
I personally dont mind the off-topic posts and discussions. If I did I would just bypass them. Kinda irks me though hearing all the complaints about it.

My view is the person complaining actually looks at the post and reads it. And doesnt like what he is reading..Most of the time the off topic stuff is labeled correctly in the subject line. Someone didnt stiff in a political post with a topic line of "Look at my new lathe".. If it doesnt look like machining stuff on the topic line it prolly isint.

Use some self control and dont open that topic.. Oh!!! But the ol train wreck thinking comes into play. Curiosity takes over and they take a looksee. And just like the bad train wreck, they dont like what they are seeing once they do look..

Use self control, just dont look.

Same thing as the rubber neckin folks passing a car wreck. The guy will be bitchin and moaning about all these rubber neckers just as he is getting his turn driving by at 25mph..

I dont mind the OT posts. Some are fairly intelligent. When I loose interest I just go on to the next topic. Simple... JR

Richard-TX
10-07-2008, 10:42 PM
If you want to post an Off Topic Post, how about a Off Topic Forum, So I can Ignore It... ?

5 OT Posts just on this screen view of 20 posts.....

Really,

I Can Get any sort of Political Crap I need off of other places on the Internet.

This is a Home Shop Machinist Forum, not Oprah.com.

Stick to the Subject Matter, or go elsewhere...

Fed Up, Retired GI....


I agree. Having no limits on topic matter is what killed Usenet. It died a horrible death. Unless something is done to keep people on topic, any forum will sink into the black hole of politics.

Discussing politics accomplishes nothing. It does not sway anyone one way of the other, it doesn't enlighten. I does not entertain. It pisses people off and makes enemies. Then there are the election year trolls that come out of the woodwork and infest the internet.

Want to kill off a forum? Start discussing politics. After the election, the forum will be dead.

Ken_Shea
10-07-2008, 10:51 PM
Just the way it is is just fine, no need for another forum at all that I can see.
Life ain't Burger King, we don't always get it our way.
Also no need to take things said so seriously, I come here because it is enjoyable, it needs to be a relaxed atmosphere, uncomplicated and as free form as possible, most have had enough of the rigid day to day crap that absorbs most of our lives.

OT lives, I really enjoy them !

toastydeath
10-08-2008, 02:27 AM
*cough*

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/memes/sewious.jpg

John Stevenson
10-08-2008, 04:04 AM
*cough*

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/toastydeath/memes/sewious.jpg

So is this.


http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/strangled%20duck.jpg

.

chief
10-08-2008, 06:09 AM
I agree with George. Sometimes you see something on the news and you would like a second opinion on the subject or another point of view.
Unfortunately some people immediately fly into a rage over them, which is quite ridiculous.
Everyone their own ideas, I don't get annoyed or make ignorant remarks when I see some of the on topic posts which are quite elementary in nature.
The problem is that some posters believe that they own the board. Some on the information put out on this board by the "experts" is flat wrong or too complicated for a beginner to understand, the "experts" rather than simply offering the easy solution turn the post into a "let me show you how much I know" dog and pony show, sorry but I don't do hero worship.
As a former professional machinist, I don't learn much from the machining posts but some of the OT or general engineering posts are quite informative.
This board is much better than PM, I checked that site out a couple of times
and realized it was nothing more than milicron's " I love me board". I hope this board does not turn into a mirror image of PM.
So if you don't like OT, don't read it. Lastly cursing is the crutch of the conversational cripple.

torker
10-08-2008, 08:15 AM
Want to kill off a forum? Start discussing politics. After the election, the forum will be dead.
Oh my goodness....whatever will we do then? Ummm...Richard ol' boy....this place has survived other elections....
And someone else mentioned chasing away newcomers with the OT stuff.
There again...it's kinda funny that I see noobies happily joining in the OT posts as well.
Geezuz....OT is NOT the end of the world!
Russ

sidneyt
10-08-2008, 08:51 AM
I have a divided opinion on this.

I sympathise with Bguns, there do seem to be many OT posts, many of which seem to run off course.

If I have a non-machining related question I would rather ask people on the fora which I post and whom I know and trust, than join 'which-coffee-and-salted-watermelon.net' as a newbie and get replies like 'here we go again.'

My personal opinion is that a little more active moderation might help, not just locking threads which have spiralled out of all help, but steering threads so that they do not.

I mean no disrespect to anybody in my opinions, the sole moderator has a onerous task, which could be made easier by less inflamatory postings.

I come here to glean machining advice and ideas and dispense whatever help I can for whatever it's worth. If I have to put up with a number of OT threads to sift through to gain that then I guess so be it.

Al

I agree especially with the "little more active moderation" needed. I have no problem with expressing an opinion about whatever subject you wish to talk on this forum, as long it is about machining. Otherwise move it to another group. This would, however, require more attention from a moderator. THis does not seem likely to happen based on what I have observed over the past few years. So, I try my best to ignore the unrelated topics having nothing to do with HSM.

Your Old Dog
10-08-2008, 09:16 AM
Spot on Torker!

I think maybe some of the guys who only want to deal with the on topic post are those who have extensive networks of friends, neighbors and family to deal with.

I live in the country and have little opportunity for (gawd this is gonna hurt!) "social intercourse" :D The guys on this board and the things they talk about supply a large amount of my touch with society. For awhile I would check in on the board every time i came into the house. From what I've witnessed here, I'm not the only one to do that.

A.K. Boomer
10-08-2008, 09:30 AM
Its not the OT posts that are a problem, its the people who try to dictate just how the site should be, Sorry, thats not your call, OT posts are just that, no big whoop, and I might add that many of the board members get to throw in their expertise in area's that others dont know a thing about -- thats great, as long as im learning im happy, even politics have something to do with machining as perhaps the outcome will decide what machine or tooling you can afford to buy in the future (if any -- or what you might have to sell:( )

So if you come on here and try to moderate the board I think you really need to have your act together and then I believe you'll still take a spankin,

We all know how it turned out for the Jackal when he tried to tell George just how the cow ate the cabbage ------- poor jackal... But what a fine example of how it should be, Dont like the way Village press runs their wonderful site that they let you use? simple solution - take a hike...