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cybor462
10-08-2008, 10:40 AM
:o Ok I am fooling of course but I have been trying to find spindle bearings, not cheap China types. I have been searching and I have found that most of my links to bearing suppliers I had no longer work or the websites are gone.

I searched here for the last hour and have not found any specific info on where to buy. When I googled them 99% of what I got was links to China suppliers.

I need a replacement 30212 and a 30211. The old bearings are Chinese and in tough shape. I hoped to get a better made product.

Next question I also noticed there are several grades of these numbers. The one I assume I should get would be the precision style. From what I have found they have better quality and tolerances and would be what I should have for the spindle.

Am I in the right neighborhood? If so where could I buy them. Any ideas?

Thanks

cybor462
10-08-2008, 10:56 AM
I Googled it and find nothing relating to bearings. Is there any other info I should have.

topct
10-08-2008, 11:08 AM
Google "30212 bearing".

cybor462
10-08-2008, 11:22 AM
I did I either get email requests only or Chinese suppliers. I do not want a Chinese bearing as the ones in now are really in tough shape. I wanted to put in a better bearing. Also there are a number of different type of 30212 I assume different specs relating to quality and performance. I need to speak to someone to get that answered and email is too slow. I may have found a phone number to try. I will give it a whirl.

cybor462
10-08-2008, 11:39 AM
Just ordered Timkens. They said there is only one grade. Seems funny as I saw prices online from $8.00 -$300.00 for those numbers. He said they are Chinese made.
So I ordered them. Hope they are decent.

Anybody have any recent dealing with Timken? I know they were good years ok. But they were not made in China then either.

miker
10-08-2008, 04:37 PM
There is a lot of info on this site. Contact phone numbers as well.

http://www.bardenbearings.com/conta_us.html

Let us know how the new bearings work out.

Rgds

pcarpenter
10-08-2008, 04:47 PM
It does make me cringe to hear that Timken bearings are made in China (at least some). Timken and some of the related companies like Fafnir are some of America's premier bearing makers.

I did do some poking around and found this link which offers a cross reference to a bunch of other MFG's part numbers for these metric roller bearings:

http://www.consbrgs.com/pdfs/CONSO.CH.7.pdf

Paul

RobbieKnobbie
10-08-2008, 05:06 PM
Looks like I'm a bit late with this reply, but for future reference, try calling Philly Ball and Roller Bearing. They have - or will get - anything under the sun. Looks like you're out by Harrisburg, so you're not too far.

Aside from that, you could try Applied Maintenance. they're nationwide and specialize in such things.

sidneyt
10-08-2008, 05:20 PM
I have replaced the bearings in my mill/drill and they used P5 grade bearings. So, I would think that your lathe would require something comparable. P5 grade bearings in the size you need aren't going to necessarily be cheap (you can buy P6 30211 and 30212 bearings on Ebay for ~$13 a set) and I would not be installing P6 bearings in my lathe (ABEC 3 equivalent vs ABEC 5 for the ISO P5s) As it so happened I purchased my bearings from Consolidated, one was made in German and the other came from Slovakia. If it came from China it would not have mattered to me.

HSS
10-08-2008, 05:46 PM
My bearing supplier said SKF, and he thought, MRC were european made bearings. But then, he was unaware Fafnir was made in Chin-a now.
Patrick

lazlo
10-08-2008, 06:14 PM
My bearing supplier said SKF, and he thought, MRC were european made bearings. But then, he was unaware Fafnir was made in Chin-a now.

I'd be surprised if the Timkens were made in China. I think Klem's bearing distributor is specifying a Chinese equivalent of a Timken 30212 tapered roller bearing.

The $8 - $300 price he was quoted is consistent with Chicom automotive-grade bearings (at the $8 price) up to Class 00 (ABEC-9 Equivalent) name-brand Timkens (at the $300 price).

MRC is a US company, based out of Pennsylvania, but they were bought by SKF (Sweden) years ago.

By the way Cybor: check your PM's.

Mark McGrath
10-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Timken built a large new facility in China a few years ago and planned to stop production in the rest of the world,keeping only sales offices in the individual companies.All their factories in Britain with the possible exception of one have now closed.

cybor462
10-08-2008, 07:52 PM
I have replaced the bearings in my mill/drill and they used P5 grade bearings. So, I would think that your lathe would require something comparable. P5 grade bearings in the size you need aren't going to necessarily be cheap (you can buy P6 30211 and 30212 bearings on Ebay for ~$13 a set) and I would not be installing P6 bearings in my lathe (ABEC 3 equivalent vs ABEC 5 for the ISO P5s) As it so happened I purchased my bearings from Consolidated, one was made in German and the other came from Slovakia. If it came from China it would not have mattered to me.
Now I am getting nervous. This guy from BDI tells me there is only one grade from any manufacturer on metric bearings. I asked him several times as I read there are different grades. He said no only standard. He did say they are Timkens and they are made in China. He said Timken was recently bought out.

Thanks guys for the info. I would like to dig deeper into the grade thing. The bearings that came out one had a P5 and the other P6 so according to sydneyt that would be their grade. If these Timkens are crap I will send them back. I will call BDI tomorrow and see about grading.

If anyone is interested this is their website http://www.bdi-usa.com/

mbensema
10-08-2008, 08:47 PM
All the major bearing companies have factories in China, Timken is the only one I know of that imports these bearings into the North American market. They sent a letter to their distributors a couple years back informing of them they could be getting Chinese bearings and not to expect a discount since they are built to the same standards as anywhere else in the world including North America. I would not have any problem accepting Chinese bearings made from any of the major manufacturers. If they do say China on them, you can at least be assured they are not counterfeit, I doubt the counterfeiters would mark them as coming from China :)

Did I read your statement right that the distributor says no metric bearings are available in anything better then the standard class? That is simply not true. Metric bearings come in P6, P5 and P4 classes and correspond to ABEC 3, 5 and 7. The part number for the FAG product is 30212A.P5 for the P5 class bearing. They are not in stock in North America, but they are made. Consolidated has a large supply of bearings and probably could get you anything you need if your local distributor can't or won't.

GKman
10-08-2008, 08:55 PM
I think that machine tools to make bearings have advanced so much that manufactures would have to intentionally make products to lower tolerances that we used to accept for lower grade bearings. They no longer need to measure and match to get the higher tolerances. Why manufacture and stock 4 or 5 grades when machines will spit out high tolerance parts all day? Wanting or not wanting products from a country based on one past experience makes as little sense as boycotting British products based on the Lucas rectifier on my '59 Triumph or the radiator on an American '76 Chevy Vega.

Just my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

wierdscience
10-08-2008, 09:07 PM
http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catalog.do?e=10&s=7332781&r=0&type=a&mp=30211M90KM1

There is the Timken set,the SKF set is also availible for the near the same money.

Yes Timken is making bearings in China,mostly the dirt common types for automotive applications.

Did you try Wells Index for a spindle rebuild?

http://cgi.ebay.com/R-8-spindle-grind-NEW-BEARINGS-Wells-Index-Bridgeport_W0QQitemZ120286391871QQcmdZViewItem?has h=item120286391871&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C 240%3A1318&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

lazlo
10-08-2008, 09:31 PM
http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catalog.do?e=10&s=7332781&r=0&type=a&mp=30211M90KM1

There is the Timken set,the SKF set is also availible for the near the same money.

I sent Cybor/Klem a link to an Ebay Buy It Now auction for an authentic Made In USA Timken 30212A cup and cone for $25. That's hard to beat.

J Tiers
10-08-2008, 10:07 PM
I have bought bearings from Bearing Headquarters, who have an outlet fairly near me. They can match about anything, and have, for me. Should be other branches elsewhere findable on their site

So far no chinese bearings........ did get one made in Turkey once......

http://www.bearingheadquarters.com/

wierdscience
10-09-2008, 12:31 AM
I sent Cybor/Klem a link to an Ebay Buy It Now auction for an authentic Made In USA Timken 30212A cup and cone for $25. That's hard to beat.

Those type deals are good,but if the bearing has been sitting on the shelf for a long time the factory lube will need to be boiled out on the cook stove.

sidneyt
10-09-2008, 12:54 PM
I sent Cybor/Klem a link to an Ebay Buy It Now auction for an authentic Made In USA Timken 30212A cup and cone for $25. That's hard to beat.

Yeah, and most of the 30212 bearings appear to be going on truck axles that don't require P5 tolerance. I would not expect to get a 30212 P5 bearing for $25. I paid more than $50 each of the smaller 30206 and 30207 P5 bearings for my mill/drill from Consolidated.

lazlo
10-09-2008, 02:30 PM
Yeah, and most of the 30212 bearings appear to be going on truck axles that don't require P5 tolerance. I would not expect to get a 30212 P5 bearing for $25.

Agree completely, but Cybor's distributor is ordering a Class 2 automotive grade tapered roller bearing for him, which is also the grade that Weirdscience linked for $45 at Consolidated.

If you want a Class 3/P5/ABEC-5 tapered roller bearing, it's going to cost a whole lot more than an automotive grade bearing. That's the situation Doc was in last week.


Those type deals are good,but if the bearing has been sitting on the shelf for a long time the factory lube will need to be boiled out on the cook stove.

Don't even need to do that -- tapered roller bearings are open, so just dunk it in mineral spirits if the bearing grease has separated.

wierdscience
10-09-2008, 09:24 PM
Agree completely, but Cybor's distributor is ordering a Class 2 automotive grade tapered roller bearing for him, which is also the grade that Weirdscience linked for $45 at Consolidated.

If you want a Class 3/P5/ABEC-5 tapered roller bearing, it's going to cost a whole lot more than an automotive grade bearing. That's the situation Doc was in last week.

Those P5 aren't just expensive,they are near impossible to find sitting on a shelf anywhere.All the bearing houses want to stock are the common types.




Don't even need to do that -- tapered roller bearings are open, so just dunk it in mineral spirits if the bearing grease has separated.

I know tapered bearings are open,it's the goo on the backside of the cages between rollers that likes to give trouble.I have about 1,000 lbs of NOS Timken on the shelf so the problem has come up before.

cybor462
10-10-2008, 12:25 AM
I called Grizzly and they said the replacements they sell (do not have them anyway have to order from China) they said they are only a standard bearing. They want $65 each so they could be the $25 one that they mark up to $65

Where the heck can I get a decent metric for this spindle? I have looked and looked, read about grades but can't find them.

macona
10-10-2008, 04:21 AM
You might be able to retrofit the spindle to use angular contact bearings. What are the IDs and ODs of the bearings you have?

Richard-TX
10-10-2008, 09:37 AM
I'd be surprised if the Timkens were made in China.

Timken has 7 plants in Asia.

http://timken.com/en-us/about/NewsRoom/Stories/Pages/TimkenAddstoIndustrialCapacityinAsiawithOpeningofT woNewPlants.aspx

Two new ones were opened this year. One in India and the other in China.

SKF has just opened it's 10th plant in China.

http://www.skf.com/portal/skf/home/news?contentId=027128&lang=en#


I fail to understand why a bearing that is made in a certain geographic region would be any different than one made in another. Same steel, same machines, same QC standards.

Richard-TX
10-10-2008, 09:45 AM
Now I am getting nervous. This guy from BDI tells me there is only one grade from any manufacturer on metric bearings. http://www.bdi-usa.com/

He is dead wrong.

Call Accurate Bearing if you need ABEC 5 or 7 bearings. They cater to small shops.

lazlo
10-10-2008, 10:23 AM
Timken has 7 plants in Asia.

Two new ones were opened this year. One in India and the other in China.

SKF has just opened it's 10th plant in China.

I just bought a set of the SKF Explorer (ABEC-3/ABEC-5) bearings from MSC, and they're Made in USA. By the way, bearings are a fantastic deal at MSC during the monthly 30% off sale -- I got the SKF bearings for 30% off.

If you watch the How Its Made episode on making bearings, which was the NTN bearing factory in Canada, the entire operation including assembly is completely automated -- there wasn't a human hand that touched a bearing from beginning to end.

http://www.youtube.com/v/eGyoMuE4gDQ&hl=en&fs=1

lazlo
10-10-2008, 10:58 AM
I just bought a set of the SKF Explorer (ABEC-3/ABEC-5) bearings from MSC, and they're Made in USA.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/SKFBearings.jpg

lakeside53
10-10-2008, 11:40 AM
I've had SKF bearings from Argentina, Turkey, France, China and the USA.. to name a few...

The latest Nachi bearings I used were from China.


With bearings, I choose the brand, not the country...

mbensema
10-10-2008, 12:39 PM
Timken imports many industrial bearings from China, not just the automotive sizes. Demand for different sizes changes often and manufacturing changes along with it. If certain sizes are not used as often in the US and is increasing in China, or Brazil or somewhere else, the manufacturing of those bearings is likely to be shifted there. The country of manufacture on the box does not mean all the components were manufactured in that country. The rings could have been done in India, cages in China, rolling elements in Romania and the final grinding and assembly in the United States for example. As Lakeside53 says, go for the manufacturers reputation and not where it was made.

The video is a good example of small bearing manufacturing and is for the most part fully automated for standard tolerance bearings, but high tolerance (ABEC 7 and 9) still has a large amount of manual labor involved and part of the reason for the higher prices.


I think that machine tools to make bearings have advanced so much that manufactures would have to intentionally make products to lower tolerances that we used to accept for lower grade bearings. They no longer need to measure and match to get the higher tolerances.

Simple economics. It costs more to build a higher tolerance part regardless of how precise the machine you are using is. Bearings are certainly better and easier to make now, but that means the prices have come down or they can build them faster. Standard clearance bearing components still need to be measured and matched for the proper clearance. There is still enough deviation in the dimensions of the components to produce a bearing with too loose or too tight clearance if they components were just taken off the shelf and assembled.

The P5 class for the bearings Cybor is looking for is not all that common and might need to be special ordered. Bearing distributors and manufacturers are only stocking what sells and will not keep something on the shelf for a year if they can put something there that will sell in a week. Consolidated Bearing usually has the stuff the other distributors will not stock and is worth calling.

cybor462
10-11-2008, 12:59 AM
I called these guys today. I spoke to the fellow that said they were only made in standard grade. Today he had a different opinion. It seems he also did a little research and now says that they do come in precision grades. He even had the bearings lined up to order. I guess he knew I would be calling back.
He ordered me P5's for each at roughly $130 each. He said they were SKF made in Germany. I would guess they will be better and will hold up and hopefully be tight enough to hold tolerances. I guess if it is P5 they should.

We will see what comes in. I will trace their numbers to be sure they are what he said they are. He did say the Timkens he ordered were not automotive bearings. They were industrial. I have no clue but hope these will fit the bill.

Thanks for all this good info. I learned a few things about bearings. Only wish I knew for sure I could remember it.:o