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View Full Version : Anyone still make a *quality* drill chuck?



jkilroy
10-09-2008, 11:09 AM
I need a good chuck in a small size, no bigger than 1/4 diameter. The last two Jacobs I got have not been the quality I thought I paid for.

Fasttrack
10-09-2008, 11:24 AM
What about albrecht, or are they junk now too?

davidh
10-09-2008, 11:36 AM
by the prices they seem to be, they certainly should be good. German made ?

lazlo
10-09-2008, 12:02 PM
Unfortunately, Jacobs had serious financial problems and was bought out by the giant Danaher group, and the chucks are now made in China. I bought a new Jacobs 14N from Enco, and it was lousy -- I returned it and bought a New Old Stock 14N on Ebay, and it's much nicer.

I remember seeing a post on Practical Machinst that said that the Chinese Jacobs chucks cost-engineered the integral ball thrust bearing, which would explain a lot...

JCHannum
10-09-2008, 12:02 PM
What Jacobs chuck did you buy? They make a broad range of chucks from throw away chucks for hand drills to the industrial quality ones. The 8-1/2N Ball Bearing Super chuck or the 1A, 1B or 7BA chucks should be good quality. They don't make a 1/4" taper mount chuck, but the 34 series in the 0-1/2" range are heavy duty chucks as well.

Albrecht are high quality while Rohm and LFA are pretty much comparable in keyless chucks at lower price than Albrecht.

jkilroy
10-09-2008, 12:53 PM
All of the Jacobs I have are the "Super Chucks". The allowable runout is .003 which is fine (most of the time) if I am drilling a 5/8" hole with a big chuck. Not acceptable for really small drills. (For me, anything under 1/8" is really small) The bad part is most of them are not that good. I may have to get a ER16 holder and resort to collets.

Fasttrack
10-09-2008, 01:53 PM
If you don't want to go the collet route, look at an Albrecht with an integral shank. They will be more accurate than the ones you need an adapter for. It looks like albrecht is still made entirely in Germany.

These seem pretty neat (not what your looking for I realize):
http://www.albrechtchucks.com/apc_milling_chucks.cfm

A TIR of .00012 is pretty damn good in my book ;)

lazlo
10-09-2008, 02:32 PM
LOL Fastrack! That's a high-speed, dynamically balanced CNC chuck. I bet they don't carry that at Enco :D

BadDog
10-09-2008, 02:34 PM
I've got Jacobs in both plain and ball bearing. Very nice. As others have said, modern Jacobs is only barely (if any?) above the cheapest CDCO/Shars lineup, but the MBAs at Danaher are still "leveraging the Brand" to coax out a few more years of enormous profit margins (the only reason they bought the Jacobs name) until they've run it (the brand, chucks are already there) completely into the ground.

I've also got a very nice old 1/4" Jacobs keyed chuck on my Pratt Whitney sensitive drill press. It is taper mounted, so I know they made them at some time in the past.

Also note that "Super Chucks" typically have more runout than the plain bearing lineup.

For new keyed chucks, I have no idea where to look. But I have some relatively new Albrechts that are fantastic. And the first R8 mounted chuck for my 2J was a Rohm 1/2 Keyless from the typical Enco sales catalog for about $55 or so. It seems very nearly as nice as the Albrechts, but MUCH cheaper. Not sure if they have any of the Rohms as small as you want, might check. But I have 3/16 and 1/4" Albrechts that are top notch for anybodies money...

Fasttrack
10-09-2008, 02:52 PM
LOL Fastrack! That's a high-speed, dynamically balanced CNC chuck. I bet they don't carry that at Enco :D


Yeah, like I said - not a viable solution for the "home shop machinist". :D Thats probably why I never saw them before ;)

dan s
10-09-2008, 03:01 PM
Rohm, is supposed to be really good.

MTNGUN
10-09-2008, 08:37 PM
At the risk of being laughed off the forum, I have two 1/2" "Golden Goose" ball bearing chucks made in Taiwan. They are excellent. Minimal runout (0.001" when new) and they grip tight. I can't remember ever having a bit slip in these chucks.

One was the Enco house brand, the other came from ebay.

Small they are not. I keep a cheap chinese plain chuck on hand for the rare occasions when a smaller chuck is required to reach into a tight spot.

Sorry if this offends yall patriotic types, but some of the asian stuff is pretty good these days.

wierdscience
10-09-2008, 08:58 PM
It won't be me laughing,I have several of the Taiwan keyless chucks.Could not be happier.

http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/3-8-Keyless-Drill-Chuck-JT2/G8232

Albrecht is over priced and over rated,they self tighten to the point a strap wrench is required to release them.Never had that problem with the Taiwan units.

Teenage_Machinist
10-09-2008, 09:08 PM
Sorta funny. This was when i first got my lathe. No enco catalog and no clue. I accidentally bought a Jacobs 0-.375 from Mcmaster Carr and it was made in the USA. I guess this stuff is made in lots and may sit around for years. Either way, it has about 1 thou runout, would be better if I cleaned it out 100%. Use in the tailstock seems to result in chips. It is oddly slightly worse feel than the cheap chuck that came with my micromill, though I suppose I do not know what good feel is.

Fasttrack
10-09-2008, 09:18 PM
It won't be me laughing,I have several of the Taiwan keyless chucks.Could not be happier.

http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/3-8-Keyless-Drill-Chuck-JT2/G8232

Albrecht is over priced and over rated,they self tighten to the point a strap wrench is required to release them.Never had that problem with the Taiwan units.


Maybe you just need stronger hands ;) :D
I'm not a big fan of keyless chucks, myself. No particular reason - it just seems like they shouldn't have as a good of holding power as the ol' Jacob's keyed "super chucks". Too bad about Jacob's, though.

The chineese chuck that came with my 3-in-1 feels "smooth" although it has no ball bearings and a TIR of .008. Its worthless. I even took it off its adapter several times to try to find a better orientation that would result in less runout. Its ok in the tailstock if you have oriented so its a tad high. If you put it in the mill it is scary! I'm affraid it will just destroy my drill bits. Luckily those Pacemakers came with an assortment of old Jacob's ball bearing chucks - max capacity from 1/2 to 5/18 to 3/4

McNeillMachine
10-09-2008, 09:50 PM
I just bought a chuck from Mari Tool, and I couldn't be happier. It was relatively inexpensive, and its dead nuts. A little larger capacity than 1/4, but if I've ever learned one thing, its that "excess capacity" becomes "Just enough" pretty quick. Comes with a morse taper or R8 shank.

http://www.maritool.com/p87/R8-DRILL-CHUCK-TOOL-HOLDER-BRIDGEPORT-MILL-16mm/product_info.html

Phil

macona
10-09-2008, 10:01 PM
An Albrecht may self tighten to the point it needs a strap wrench, but I have never had that happen when using it with non overly large drills. Thats when you should be using a good keyed chuck like the Jacobs 16N I have.

Lets see, I have:
Jacobs 8-1/2N, 11N, 16N
2 Almond Chucks 3/8"
Albrecht 1/2
Little Machine Shop 1/2 Keyless
Nikken BT30 Shank Keyless.

In the mill I either use the Nikken chuck or collets to hold drills. The lathe I have the almonds set up with center drills and use the Albrecht up to 1/2 and then the 16N for anything bigger.

I also had a Whalstrom Automatic Drill chuck. Pretty cool. You can change bits while the spindle is running. But it is longer so I gave i to my dad.

wierdscience
10-09-2008, 10:09 PM
Maybe you just need stronger hands ;) :D
I'm not a big fan of keyless chucks, myself. No particular reason - it just seems like they shouldn't have as a good of holding power as the ol' Jacob's keyed "super chucks". Too bad about Jacob's, though.

The chineese chuck that came with my 3-in-1 feels "smooth" although it has no ball bearings and a TIR of .008. Its worthless. I even took it off its adapter several times to try to find a better orientation that would result in less runout. Its ok in the tailstock if you have oriented so its a tad high. If you put it in the mill it is scary! I'm affraid it will just destroy my drill bits. Luckily those Pacemakers came with an assortment of old Jacob's ball bearing chucks - max capacity from 1/2 to 5/18 to 3/4

I cranked on those Albrechts till they had finger prints of their own:D

I have a collection of old Jacobs stuff too,some ball some plain.I replaced them with new 5/8 keyless and never looked back.

japcas
10-09-2008, 10:55 PM
I have Rohm 1/2 inch chucks for my mill and lathe and they hold very well and run true. I've been very happy with them for the price.

ulav8r
10-09-2008, 11:17 PM
Recently purchased a Jacobs Super and an Accupro ball bearing chuck. The Accupro seemed to be the same quality as the Jacobs at about 1/2 the price. Asked the operator to let me know if he could tell any difference. Haven't heard any complaints yet.

nheng
10-09-2008, 11:18 PM
I have a new Bison 1/2" chuck that is very well made and finished. Around $80 from New England Brass and Tool. Also have a 1/2" Rohm Supra which is OK, $55-ish and several Jacobs super ball bearing which have super grip. If you need guaranteed low TIR every time (or high speed balance), stick with Albrecht.

One thing that separates high quality keyless chucks like Albrecht from others is that (as far as I recall) the jaws are offset at a very slight angle from a 90 degree radial which causes them to tighten by themselves. This may be why some find them tight to loosen ... it's a feature :) Cheap imports may or may not have copied this feature.

One thing I've found with several low cost imports is that the Jacobs tapers were not very accurate and they did loosen from the arbor or spindle (DP).

Ed P
10-10-2008, 09:00 AM
I need a good chuck in a small size, no bigger than 1/4 diameter. The last two Jacobs I got have not been the quality I thought I paid for.

You can't go wrong with Albrecht as already mentioned, but if you
want something a little less pricey I swear by Yukiwa, a Japanese maker,
just as good as Albrecht.

http://www.yukiwa-usa.com/

Ed P

fasto
10-10-2008, 10:05 AM
An Albrecht may self tighten to the point it needs a strap wrench, but I have never had that happen when using it with non overly large drills.

When using an Albrech or a similar self-tightening keyless chuck you can't put the bit in so far that it touches bottom inside the chuck. If you do so, it will get stuck but good.

I have a Jacobs industrial keyless chuck which I like, and I would recommend.

I also use an LFA ball bearing chuck which is quite good.

Mcruff
10-10-2008, 08:51 PM
This is from a friend of mine that worked for Jacobs until about a year ago.
There keyless and consumer chucks are made over seas now. There industrial chucks such as the Ball bearing super chucks are still made in the US by several different companies. He sent me 2 new Ball bearing super chucks (11N) about 14 months ago, free of charge, they were just as good as my 24 year old 16N chuck and my 35 year old 14N.
Albrechts are great chucks, I wouldn't own a Rohm if it was given to me.

SDL
10-10-2008, 10:17 PM
I wouldn't own a Rohm if it was given to me.

Why?

Steve Larner

andy_b
10-10-2008, 10:49 PM
This is from a friend of mine that worked for Jacobs until about a year ago.
There keyless and consumer chucks are made over seas now. There industrial chucks such as the Ball bearing super chucks are still made in the US by several different companies. He sent me 2 new Ball bearing super chucks (11N) about 14 months ago, free of charge, they were just as good as my 24 year old 16N chuck and my 35 year old 14N.


if employees are sending free $150 chucks to their friends, no wonder Jacobs is going out of business. :)

andy b.

lazlo
10-10-2008, 11:04 PM
There industrial chucks such as the Ball bearing super chucks are still made in the US by several different companies. He sent me 2 new Ball bearing super chucks (11N) about 14 months ago, free of charge, they were just as good as my 24 year old 16N chuck and my 35 year old 14N.if employees are sending free $150 chucks to their friends, no wonder Jacobs is going out of business. :)

Dang, that wasn't my experience with the Jacobs 14N I bought last year from Enco.

Here's a thread on PM about the quality of Jacobs Super (Ball Bearing) Chucks in recent years:

Jacobs Chuck (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141540)


what gives, I bought a jacobs 14N super chuck and jacobs R8 arbor from ENCO. chuck looked like someone held it with a pair of pliers and spun it all the engraved text around the chuck body was wiped out. I sent it back got the new one and it has .0045 runout measured on a pcs. of .375 drill rod at the nose of the chuck. pulled the chuck off the arbor and the runout on the arbor's taper is .0005 my spinde runout is about .0003 Do I send it back and try again or buy something else.

John


I have sent back 3 jacobs chucks in last 2-3 years. I have now given up. Quality control was horrible as you noticed. Dreadful runout, rough edges, jaws looked like a beaver machined them. Cheap ass Chinese chucks work better at 1/4 the price in my experience. Older stock Jacobs may be fine but I would stay away from any recently made stuff except for their arbors which still seem okay.

Michael

Spin Doctor
10-11-2008, 03:42 PM
I really like Albrechts over a Jacobs* for the most part. Rohms I'm kind of luke warm on. Seen nice ones and ones that if 20 times heavier would make good boat anchors. IMO drill chucks are one of the most abused tools i the machining world. Even a good one is trash when misued.

Except for two JAcobs I've had for years. One is a 1/2" plain chuck with a shop made straight adaptor for use in the mill. Had it for 30 plus years and it still runs pretty good. The other is on a home made fine feel drill chuck I made out of a Jacobs 1/4" chuck and a drill bushing with a home shop made shank to fit. Not quite as neatly done as a commercial one but I had the pride of doing it myself.

torker
10-11-2008, 07:38 PM
I dunno guys.. I'm hooked on LFA chucks. I had to replace two worn out drill press chucks at the last place I worked. They whined about the cost of Jacobs so I ordered them a couple of LFA's. I was so impressed with them that I replaced my chuck on my mill with one. By far the most accurate chuck I own. Oh..it's a keyed chuck... I hate keyless chucks...maybe cuz I've never owned a good one so I stay with what I know.
Russ

Mcruff
10-11-2008, 09:11 PM
if employees are sending free $150 chucks to their friends, no wonder Jacobs is going out of business. :)

andy b.
Nope, he was an engineer and these were tested for accuracy and hardness of material and such, they were destroyed when testing was done or in my case sent to me with several dimples from a hardness tester and stains from chemical testing.

As far as Rohm chucks the company I work for uses them alot, alot of them would not stay on the arbors and quite afew of them would not stay tightened, plus the fact that are far heavier than a comparable Albrecht and they are finished much worse.

quasi
10-11-2008, 10:18 PM
Toker, I mean Torker, do you mean LFA?

torker
10-11-2008, 11:26 PM
Toker, I mean Torker, do you mean LFA?
Yup...lol...that's what i meant. Toker...lol! If you knew me you'd never say that.

David Powell
10-11-2008, 11:55 PM
I have used a variety of chucks . both at work and at home. Some, even of doubtful parentage and great age, have worked well, others, of known parentage and having youth on their side have not held true or firm or both. Maybe a lot depends on the heat treating, so the parts are hard enough without being brittle to the point of being liable to cracking. In my current job I use a Golden Goose self tightening o-3/8 on an r8 arbor in a First Mill on a daily basis. Our normal aim is for everything to be within 2 thou of spec on position and holes, square straight. and on size .I have seen no errors which I can blame on the chuck, it holds straight and firm, though I have made plenty of other mistakes. Maybe drill chucks are like women, when you find a good one treat it right and hold it close. Regards David Powell.