Auto darkening helmet

[Wayne02]

Thinking about asking Santa for an auto darkening helmet this year.

It would need to work for mig/tig/stick, 80% inside work under florescent lighting, 20% outdoor work. Not overly concerned about price, but am concerned about quality, particularly in the area of headgear. I'd like to find something that can last two generations like my beloved huntsman 430P. My 25 year old sellstrom is still going strong as well.

What say you?

Bonus question: So far I have ok eyesight but do need glasses for reading, and it will of course get worse with age. I'm wondering how declining eyesight affects the use of welding helmets and welding in general. Do people just wear their regular glasses under the helmet? What happens when you are at the point where you may need glasses to see the puddle while welding, but distances just beyond that (like when grinding or set-up) don't require the glasses?????

Thanks

[PTSideshow]

Have had a Harbor fright one and used it for a couple of years. it isn't designed for low amp TIGging. Just picked up my new Digital elite Have had a chance to use it yet but it does fit nice for me.
I think that the head gear is a matter of choose and the amount you use it. And the length of time using it in a day.
Here is a great review on another forum of the elite digital low amp TIGGing ok goes down to 5amp or less. lots of senors for out of position welding http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/showthread.php?t=11548 cover the helmet like a blanket.
:D

Answer to your second part question they have cheater lens that go inside the helmet or you can wear glasses since the recommend that you have on safety glasses and flash grade at all times.

I do wear mine which are also safety glasses sometimes and sometimes I don't. They have magnifier lens y7ou can get in different strengths to use.

[davidh]

i use bifocals as a added lense in my standard helmet. i tried the autodarks, a couple years ago, and could not stand it. i seemed to get flashed ever so slightly. gave it back.
friends that have good ones, swear by them. . .

i also use reading glasses besides the added close up lense and it too seems to help seeing what im doing.

however please note, i have VERY sensitive eyes. . . . .
and im getting old.

[macona]

I got my dad an Optrel Sattelite and I have one myself. One of the best helmets out there. Fully adjustable from 4 to 13. Controls on the outside to so too so you dont have to reach in to change settings.

The optrel also has adjustments to move the helmet further from your face. I have never had an issue with glasses.

[torker]

I've used Optrels for over 10 years now and wouldn't switch if my life depepnded on it. I bought the gurl a fancy new Miller helmet...thing is nothing but trouble. I'd never buy another.
Glasses...The only time they are a real pain is if you have to reach beyond the focus range (happens more than you think..when working on machinery).

[rmancini]

I use my regular bifocals under the hood but I did make an improvement --
I got a set of prescription "Double Dees". These are the bifocal portion of my glasses on both the upper and lower part of the lens.
These work great for overhead welding as you won't have to crane your neck back to see what you are doing.
I'm told thar airline pilots also like these for seeing overhead instruments.
Just a thought.
Rich

[R W]

Have never owned one and have no intention of owning one.

[macona]

Why is that?

[doctor demo]

I have a Miller. About a year old and have already had the cartrige replaced once , no charge ... just a pain . New cartrige has new problem.... goes through batteries like a kids toy on Christmas Day. I had to finish a field install yesterday by welding by ear and by feel, thank goodness it was the last weld of the day or else.

I now officialy hate miller

Steve

[gnm109]

Take a look at SpeedGlas. I've used one for close to 8 years and it's still got the same batteries. It has settings for outdoor welding, indoor and low level TIG as well as sensitivity controls.They are very also light and the screen is big enough to see what you are doing.

There are other good ones as well but I couldn't do without one anymore.

[R W]

Why is that?
The cost for a start, Have also heard reports of some being a little slow to
darken, I don't consider them a necessity for the majority of welding that I do, no doubt they would be usefull on certain jobs, have made out OK
for over 40 years without one.

[torker]

Have never owned one and have no intention of owning one.
My favourite...laying under a piece of machinery...holding a part that needs welded on with one hand..stinger in the other hand...Now I gotta try and flip this ol helmet down so I can weld...ooops...rod stuck...now I get to do it all over again.
No thanks! I'll stick with auto dark.

[gnm109]

The cost for a start, Have also heard reports of some being a little slow to
darken, I don't consider them a necessity for the majority of welding that I do, no doubt they would be usefull on certain jobs, have made out OK
for over 40 years without one.

Certainly, a good auto-darkening hood can be a considerable expense. On the other hand, they will last a long, long time if properly cared for.

If there are some that are slow to darken, they must be very inexpensive. I've got two of them. One was an add-on unit for a typical standard welding hood. That one has used the same batteries for the past ten years. The only problem with that one is that the viewing glass is too small. It still works perfectly although it's been retired to a shelf in my welding equipment cabinet for use only as a backup.

My regular auto-darkening hood is an 8 year old Speedglas. Both helmets are instantaneous in operation, down in the millisecond range. The Speedglasss has lots of adjustments for density and sensitivity. Since I started using the auto-darkening versions, I've not flashed my eyes once. With the larger viewing screen of the Speedglas, my welding has improved as well.

Let me be the first to say, however, that after 40 years without one, you certainly do not need an auto-darkening hood at this point. ;)


.

[jacampb2]

I use an Optrel satellite here. It is roughly 8 years old. I love it, I have a miller ellite and a speedglass 9000 (?) that I bought new less than two years ago, and I never use them. The speedglass has cheesy head gear and flops around on me, and the elite has a lot of trouble dealing with radiated HF from HF tig.

The optrel satellite is excellent, however, it's cartridge will not last as long as you are hoping. About 6 years in, my cartridge quit working , After speaking with Optrel, I was notified that their cartridge life for the satellite is ~5 years. I was pissed. I bought the other two helmets in an effort to find something with replaceable batteries that performed as well. I was happy with none of them. I took the Optrel cartridge apart (destroyed it, as it was potted in epoxy) but I did find that it has two lithium watch cells in it-- Although they claim it uses no batteries, they should revise their data to say that it uses no replaceable batteries. Once the lithium cells are dead, there is not enough solar power to flip the shade until long after the arc starts. I called them again, and they ended up giving me a replacement cartridge. Word is, that they are working on a cartridge for the satelite that takes replaceable batteries.

Advise on keeping a satellite working as long as possible. Put it in a dark place while not in use, otherwise ambient light could cause the shade to change and wear down the batteries. There is no on/off switch.

IMO it is still the best helmet out there for the money. As far as I can find, it is the only helmet that allows an autodark shade down to din4. Most other autodarks go down that low, but they are fixed shade for grinding, I like a din 7 or so for most of my mig and low current tig. No other autodark I found allows a shade that low.

As for shades, and flashing, if the cartridge conforms to the current ANSI standard, then they are required to provide the same protection on all shades, regardless setting.

Later,
Jason

[featherhead]

I'm thrilled with my ArcOne. It's got the largest lens on the market and with magnifiers I can see everything. The first lens deteriorated or cracked somehow and they replaced it no questions.

[R W]

[QUOTE=torker..holding a part that needs welded on with one hand..stinger in the other hand...[/QUOTE]

I did say they would they would be useful on certain jobs and what you just mentioned is one of them.

[Rustybolt]

I've used Optrels for over 10 years now and wouldn't switch if my life depepnded on it. I bought the gurl a fancy new Miller helmet...thing is nothing but trouble. I'd never buy another.
Glasses...The only time they are a real pain is if you have to reach beyond the focus range (happens more than you think..when working on machinery).

Started out with a #10 lens, then went to HF autdarkening. I should have bought the optel at the outset. Huge difference. I've had it a year now and wouldn't trade it for anything.

[radkins]

Back years ago when these things first came on the scene I bought one of Jackson's first models, they still had a long way to go then compared to what they have now. Like anything new we knew little about them and naturally there was some concern about safety. These fears were totally unfounded however but now even after over 20 years on the market there still seems to be some concern about the safety and the fear that slow or faulty electrics could lead to eye damage. These things are probably safer than a conventional helmet because the electrics have nothing to do with eye protection and the lens offers 100% of it's rated UV and IR protection even in the lightened stage so a person will suffer no harm even if the lens fails to go dark. It can be somewhat un -nerving when the lens fails due to a blocked sensor or other reason but it is nothing to worry about, likewise a slow darkening lens may be slightly uncomfortable but it will not lead to flash burn. When we questioned Jackson about this they sent a rep out to explain the inner workings and as he put it if there was any way one of these things could harm your eyes the workman's comp and product liability lawyers would put them out of business PDQ!


I am fairly new to this site and this is my first post in the welding section so I hope you don't mind my jumping in.

[Errol]

Wayne 02, if your eyesight is starting to go from aging, then get one with a large window so you can still use your "nose" glasses. I finally had to put my optrel (small window) into retirement, because of having to use reading glasses, and now have the top of the line Jackson with large window and am quite happy with it after about 6 years of use. I would stay away from those cheap ($100) units, because they don't have proper range of "delay" adjustment. I tried a couple cheap units, but they just were just a waste of time, and without proper "delay", you will scorch your retinas when the white hot puddle suddenly becomes visible when the arc extinguishes. The Jackson is hard on batteries though, about two sets per year.

[radkins]

without proper "delay", you will scorch your retinas when the white hot puddle suddenly becomes visible when the arc extinguishes.



Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree since the electrics have nothing to do with protection from damaging rays and you will still have 100% of rated protection even if the lens fails to darken. Due to awkward positions while working in cramped spaces on mining equipment I have had my lens fail on many occasions because of blocked sensors, sometimes many times in one day, and never had any problems at all. This was a concern when we first started using these things but we were assured by the Jackson reps that it posed no hazard, after learning about how they work it was easy to understand why. Likewise the glowing puddle is no danger not only because the damaging rays are absorbed by the lens material but also due to the fact that the lens does not go completely light when it changes.

Here is an informative article on the subject
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/jan2002/collision.htm

[QSIMDO]

I just got the $50 helmet with the flames from Northern and couldn't be happier.
Solar powered, adjusts in & out so I can wear my cheaters and it will darken to 13 if desired. (10's my max though)

[torker]

Due to awkward positions while working in cramped spaces on mining equipment I have had my lens fail on many occasions because of blocked sensors, sometimes many times in one day, and never had any problems at all.
I couldn't agree with you more! I work under a lot of cramped equipment and have been "flashed" like that thousands of times and never had a problem. It doesn't matter were the sensors are located on a helmet...you will always run into this.
Far worse is working beside 3 or 4 guys all on the same job...working in close quarters. You will get dozens of REAL flashes in a day in this circumstance.
I have really tough eyes or something. I've been flashed hundreds of times...many right in front of me or whatever and never had a problem.
I've seen guys just walk thru a shop and get really wicked arc flash blisters on their eyes from as much as 40 feet away. They say that is one of the most painfull injuries there is. (Psst..put cold, wet tea bags on your eyes...it helps)
Russ

[macona]

I have had arc flash two or three times. NOT FUN. These were caused by being in metal buildings that had reflective walls.

Feels like someone pulled open your eyelids and poured in sand.

Even standard glasses will help prevent arc flash. Most plastics and glass absorb about 99% of UV. Special plastics and glass is formulated for those times when you do need UV transmission (quartz, being one)

[radkins]

Special plastics and glass is formulated for those times when you do need UV transmission (quartz, being one)


These helmets were kind of a "hard sell" when they first appeared because a lot of people, me included, had the mistaken idea that some of the rays could get through before the lens would go dark however it turned out we were worried about nothing. The field reps who came out to explain the inner workings of those early helmets to us (we had purchased 20 of them) demonstrated that the UV and IR was blocked even with the lens in the light phase and that the darkened phase was not the method by which this is done. The glass and plastics, as has already been mentioned, plus the material sandwiched between are what protects our eyes so there are no dangerous rays passing the lens dark or not. It was pointed out that stopping the rays was the easy part in designing these lens and that it would have been more difficult to get the UV and IR to pass through all that material if there had of been some need to do so.


As an added note it is interesting to know that this technology was developed first by the military as a way to protect pilots and other military personal from the blinding effects of a nuclear explosion.

[Errol]

Radkins, I agree with you, I didn't mean to imply that one is not protected. I was talking about comfort and not to have that bright puddle momentarily making spots in front of your eyes. (different than the dangerous arc flash)

With proper delay adjusted in to your own personal preference, I found that I could eliminate those annoying temporary spots in front of my eyes.

I think when it counts, when out of position, in cramped conditions or using TIG, helmet adjustment controls like shade and delay are essential to have, (along with the large window)