Free welding gas = CO2

[aboard_epsilon]

British ..take note

Yup, know it should be in the welding forum ..but thought this deserved more coverage .

Well the rental on my cylinder is about due ...i use a an argon mix at the mo ...but.........

and was thinking alternatives

Since us Brits have to pay extortionate sums for our gas .....hundreds for rental and cylinder swaps over a couple of years


here are two youtube vids ...to give the idea away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPTgPFAM20k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EDosfDeG_k&feature=related

also I'm sure this could be done with more effect with bicarb and dilute hydrochloric acid or vinegar...how much more so, i don't know .....does anyone else know

has anyone here experimented with this idea .

I know it's going to be no use to the professional welders ...but it could save us DIY'ers a fare bit of money .

what do you think guys.

All the best.markj

[Teenage_Machinist]

Maybe...Not for stainless i assume. Why is gas expensive in Britain? Import?

[aboard_epsilon]

because there are two main suppliers ..

boc and air products...and they are in cahoots with each other ..one was going to take over the other at one stage.

add fat cats , shares-holders .bonuses etc ..

how do they bump the share price up ...with a company that cannot expand any more ..increase the price of the product rental ..price ..surcharges on surcharges ..this has gone on and on over the years.........its just like what ebays doing now

and the little man is left with very little money.

all the best.markj

[M_C]

Only two major suppliers.
BOC and AirProducts.

We can't buy bottles across here, so you have to rent them.

[Dawai]

and they are in cahoots with each other

Yep.. same thing here in my home town. All the suppliers bought out by the same company.. Then the price doubled.. Plus I don't know anyone behind the counter anymore.. they roll their eyes when I walk in. I am not exactly sociable when I am getting screwed.

I still need their products, but I don't have to like it.

[Timleech]

Only two major suppliers.
BOC and AirProducts.

We can't buy bottles across here, so you have to rent them.

I get my gases from l'Air Liquide, they took over the other small supplier I used to use whose name escapes me but they were a tiny bit cheaper.
They all seem to be in bed together, Air Liquide joined forces with Air Products a few years ago to try to buy up BOC but the regulators wouldn't allow it.

Don't get me started on Air Products (I used to use them, never again)

Tim

[NickH]

There's Messer too in the UK, unfortunately they're the thieving barstewards too, they bought out Distillers so CO2 is now a Freaking fortune.
Messer tried to charge my dad delivery on a bottle we picked up from the distributor, thieving scumbags.
Nick

[Timleech]

There's Messer too in the UK, unfortunately they're the thieving barstewards too, they bought out Distillers so CO2 is now a Freaking fortune.
Messer tried to charge my dad delivery on a bottle we picked up from the distributor, thieving scumbags.
Nick

I'm fairly sure that Messers are owned by Air Liquide (aka SAF and Oerlikon).

They all charge a fee for the pleasure of doing business with them, separate from the delivery fee.

Tim

[macona]

You need about 25 cubic feet per hour for mig welding. Thats a lot of wine! Plus the CO2 coming out is not what I would call pure! Lots of water vapor and other crud.

[Teenage_Machinist]

Where does argon come from anyway, I wonder. Seems like the CO2 could come from vinegar/soda. What about nitrogen. Its 70% of air!

[ckelloug]

Argon comes from liquification of air. There is a small amount of argon in ordinary air and when you cool and pressurize the air sufficiently to liquify it, you can separate the components in a manner similar to distilling moonshine

[macona]

Both Argon and CO2 are byproducts of refining oil. Argon is the most abundant rare gases. It is refined through distillation of liquid air. One of the reason for the increases in prices was from the price of oil and the reduction in refining.

[speedy]

We have boc and air liquide here. The same sort of bast***s with different names. Time was that we had New Zealand companies, Mason Mesco and NZIG (New Zealand Industrial Gases) and they would fill either companies bottles and owner bottles, no problems. --In fact I inherited a set of oxy (NZIG) acetylene (Mesco) owner bottles that were a retirement gift from NZIG to my Father in law when he left the employ of NZIG.-- We also had a owner bottle system; then the two bast***s bought them out.
Luckily we have another operater that is more sympathetic to the small business/homeshop type. They are Supagas and are located in Manukau and Hamilton. I think that they are Kiwi with an association with the Aussie company of the same name?

[Ian B]

Where does argon come from?

It's the 3rd most abundant gas in the atmosphere at 0.934%, behind nitrogen & Oxygen. CO2 comes 4th at 0.383%. Don't tell the treehuggers about the argon; they'll start whining about MIG welding sets destroying the planet...

Ian

[aboard_epsilon]

OK, thats all the bickering about the high prices out of the way ..
now lets talk making gas

With the bicarb and vinegar or hydrochloric ...........are there any bi-products other than water and co2.

The guy who does the demo in the video, I estimate he has over 5 cubic feet in that bag .so it's only five bags full and you have an hours continuous welding....enough for any job that I tackle.

why the grapes ...or wine ............will sugar and yeast do the same job?

who says the co2 has to be 99 percent pure ..........im not welding aircraft parts !!!

all the best..markj