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madman
10-15-2008, 10:29 AM
I wass told by a fellow the other night while having a Beer that if you use 1.250 inch black pipe yopu need a inspection?? Any thoughts on this? I was also told that if you use one inch dia pipe or under you dont eed it? HM.

PTSideshow
10-15-2008, 11:05 AM
I don't know about where you live it seems they are slightly different in every location. It may be code or it may be work rules. In the Detroit metro area the union rules on who does what size4 piping are for only one thing so they can keep people working and make money.
Air lines are handled by Pipefitter's no matter what dia. Plumbers do anything under 3" but in reality they do any brown /black water (solid human waste lines) as the fitters don't do dirty work. But any potable water lines or gray water they do or have to be on site and getting paid as the plumbers have to do the drain and sink fitting connections.

Everybody assumes it is code when the inspection group only cares about the FEES for permits etc. And that the job will not imperil Health and safety.

It was fun when a fitter and plumber that didn't like each other were on the same job as the shafting and waiting around for union reps could go on for weeks. And this was with in house personnel, with a board of education.

After 3 weeks of the BS. I finished the 3" water line to one end of the building so I could get the Lavatories back up and working. I did it in 4 hours and I'm only a Stationary Engineer/facilities manger. On a week end. When the fitters came back on Monday with the union rep, They asked who fixed it I told them the fitter faeries, must have come by over the weekend. The union rep wet himself laffing, as the Fitter was and still is a world class, legend in his own mind and A$$.
;)

madman
10-15-2008, 11:08 AM
Well i dont want to waste money on fees when i could spend it buyiong something nice for my shop like BEER. Thanx for the reply Mike

Evan
10-15-2008, 12:35 PM
Mike,

It's entirely possible that the smaller diameter pipe doesn't require inspection. The relative strength of a pressure vessel goes up as the diameter goes down given the same wall thickness. You will have to check with the local code enforcement officer to be sure. The last time I installed black iron pipe for natural gas I called the inspector before hand and flat out asked him what he wanted to see when he came to inspect. I don't think anyone ever asked him that before so he thought for a while and then told me he wanted to see more pipe hangers than the code required, an extra elbow at the meter and a 24 hr leak down test instead of 1 hour. It cost me nearly nothing to make him happy and he approved it all on first sight.

Rob Peterson
10-15-2008, 01:14 PM
Inspected by who? For what - who cares if an air line leaks? It isn't gas pipe or plumbing. I would guess that the rules that your friend partially remembers are based on gas piping, and don't apply to air lines. Or it is as PTSideshow has said, really a union issue.

The one area that air lines would fall under the jurisdiction of a government body is as pressure piping.
Most jurisdictions will have a minimum volume of piping and at least 100 psi working pressure to warrant registration. In Alberta, that volume is 0.5 cubic metres. I suspect the threshold volume is similar throughout North America. It would take many hundreds of feet of 1.25" to make up that volume.

But registration (which requires drawings stamped by an engineer) is a very different animal from an "inspection".

RP

PTSideshow
10-15-2008, 02:10 PM
Again in the City of Detroit they have the inspections and a yearly license for Air tanks, compressors, It covers everybody from the corner gas station to the auto plants( big bucks) for the money involved, One of the boiler inspectors gets the job afternoon or Mid nights his choice and for a month. as not to interrupt production and tie up a plant personnel giving the tour to all the hidden locations of the receiver tanks and booster pressors etc.

They general let the gas stations and small operators slide. Unless you are dry cleaners with air assisted steam equipment, for pants pressing etc.:D
I swear the inspectors get a per centage of the fees;) but a friend that is a city inspector says no.

derekm
10-15-2008, 02:51 PM
If you are employed or self employed and its for your business it clicks in if the pressure volume product of the system exceeds 250 bar litres (very easy to do) . Then its regular inspections by a "competent person" etc... YMMV and disclaimers et cetera et cetera tandem ad infinitum ad nausea

Paul Alciatore
10-15-2008, 04:17 PM
Inspected by who? For what - who cares if an air line leaks? It isn't gas pipe or plumbing. I would guess that the rules that your friend partially remembers are based on gas piping, and don't apply to air lines. Or it is as PTSideshow has said, really a union issue.

The one area that air lines would fall under the jurisdiction of a government body is as pressure piping.
Most jurisdictions will have a minimum volume of piping and at least 100 psi working pressure to warrant registration. In Alberta, that volume is 0.5 cubic metres. I suspect the threshold volume is similar throughout North America. It would take many hundreds of feet of 1.25" to make up that volume.

But registration (which requires drawings stamped by an engineer) is a very different animal from an "inspection".

RP

If you have ever seen an air line "go" then you wouldn't doubt that it can be a safety issue. Even lower pressure lines like 60 or 80 PSI can do some damage as they flail about.

Inspection, union issues, etc. can and will vary widely from one state to another. I have always found the local building inspectors to be very helpful if you call them with a cooperative attitude and ask politely. Your mileage may vary.