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Doc Nickel
10-29-2008, 06:34 PM
I posted a day or two ago about needing a favor from someone in the Milwaukee area, and as it turned out, the guy who told me about the deal went and picked it up for me. (Thank you to the others that replied, though.)

It was Craigslist ad for some horizontal mill cutters, come get the whole heap, $250. There were over a hundred visible and countable in the ad photos alone, so I figured it'd be a pretty good deal, even with shipping involved- taking advantage of the Post Office Flat Rate boxes, of course.

Well, my new best buddy went over and bought them for me, and has spent the past day or so wrapping all eight-hundred-plus for shipping. :D

These bins hold five hundred and thirty...

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/cutters-packed.jpg

... Plus the NMTB shell-mill holder. Then he figures there's still another three-hundred-plus yet to be wrapped:

http://www.docsmachine.com/machineshop/cutters-loose.jpg

There's inside and outside radius cutters, gear tooth cutters, slitting saws, slotting saws, carbide-faced cutters... roughly a third of them are still coated in wax...

I don't see any nice, wide slab mills yet, but I'm not gonna complain. :D

Once I have them in my hot little hands, I'll probably be spreading the wealth a little bit, as I'm sure there'll be many duplicates, and I can't possibly use all eight hundred cutters.

Doc.

lane
10-29-2008, 07:04 PM
Boy O Boy that was a deal and a half. 25 are 30 would be enough for most folks. That is pure D tool gloat.

Dragons_fire
10-29-2008, 07:25 PM
NICE SCORE!!!

hope youre friend doesnt make you replace the hardwood for him after...

Teenage_Machinist
10-29-2008, 07:35 PM
Looks like a ton of side/periphery mills and some angle or form relieved cutters, Just what is in there?

recoilless
10-29-2008, 08:11 PM
Doc: there is NO possible way that you can use all those cutters or maybe some of them just won't fit your machine!! If you decide to spread the wealth...let me know I'd be glad to offer FMV to relieve some of your burden

Paul

I'm jealous, great find.

nheng
10-29-2008, 08:31 PM
hope youre friend doesnt make you replace the hardwood for him after...

No, but his wife will :D

Nice score Doc !

Fasttrack
10-29-2008, 08:38 PM
Wow! Nice score.

I don't even have a horizontal mill but those still look awfully tempting. I'd have a hard time keeping them from sticking to my fingers if I was wrapping them :D Just kidding!

G1K
10-29-2008, 09:15 PM
I'm also interested in a few of the potential duplicates.

What a great score

Ryan

wierdscience
10-29-2008, 09:28 PM
Doc,I am impressed,that is first class tool haulage!

gzig5
10-29-2008, 09:53 PM
Doc,
I'm glad that worked out and that you didn't need the help I offered!

That Craigslist add has been running every other day for weeks. I emailed him back in September to ask what sizes he had and his reply was "come look". It wasn't convenient to get there during the day so I never did it. When you get them sorted, I'd be interested in 1" hole cutters if you have any to get rid of.

Greg

sidegrinder
10-29-2008, 10:16 PM
If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that ad ran for at least the whole summer. Just shows how spoiled we are here in the upper rust belt ;)

gunbuilder
10-29-2008, 10:45 PM
Doc,
Wow, what a haul, looks like just about every imaginable cutter. I too am interested if you have any surplus.

My KT will enjoy using your cutters to make big blocks for steel into chips.

Just remember to save a few cutters for Dulie's Dad.

Thanks,
Paul

J Tiers
10-29-2008, 11:13 PM
yeah, those are great type deals!

I got 200+ a few years ago, for , as I recall, $50. Lots that I could use, still have plenty that are too big for me, including some slab mills, matched interlocking cutters, etc..

They are a drug on the market, I couldn't sell more than a half dozen over on PM even...... and those were specialty roller chain cutters etc. I suspect the weight puts off purchasers..... shipping cost. Only a few would fit in a flat rate box, so the shipping was as much as the cutters. Several folks dropped out based on that.

torker
10-30-2008, 12:44 AM
Holy Smoke Doc!!! Wow! I am jealous!
LOL! I'd go on that list for some big cutters for when I breath life into the VN!
Russ

Ian B
10-30-2008, 12:47 AM
Nice pile of cutters doc!

What's the minimum spindle speed of your mill? That'll probably determine the maximum cutter diameter that you can use.

With that many cutters, it doesn't seem worth the trouble of getting a T&C grinder - just chuck them in a corner when they get blunt!

Ian

Doc Nickel
10-30-2008, 01:28 AM
Ian- I believe the inherent lowest on this Nichols mill is 200 rpm. But with the VFD, of course, I can dial it down from there.

And I already have a couple of plans for different tool-and-cutter grinders, including one potentially from scratch, and the other a modification of my old Van Dorn "valve and tool" grinder.

One thing I'd like to be able to do is some minor profiling to certain cutters, so I can make a tool that, for example, makes a groove with tapered sides, in one pass.

And yes, I know I'll never, ever, need all... well, the latest update is actually... um, twelve hundred cutters, when taking into account the small slitting saws and whatnot... :D

But anyway, yes, I expect I'll be selling off some of the inevitable duplicates, plus anything over 6" OD, since that's the largest the Nichols can swing on an overarm arbor, and then anything with an arbor bore over 1-1/4".

But I'm getting ahead of myself, as I don't even have them in hand yet. :D

Doc.

Bguns
10-30-2008, 03:03 AM
Lot O Cutting action available now :)

Makes my Free little Unimat SL, look like a puny Score...

My 2 Horizontals can swing up to 12 in OD Cutters :) :)

Let us know when the Goodies arrive...

Doc Nickel
10-30-2008, 04:43 AM
A suggestion:

One thing that doesn't appear to be part of this collection are wide slabbing cutters. I'd like to have a couple of these, say, 3" OD by 2" wide, 3" wide and/or 4" wide (or thereabouts.)

Nice and sharp for doing primarily aluminum, 1" or 1-1/4" arbor.

If anyone has anything in this ballpark, and would like to trade for a selection of whatever I can spare, let me know. Or at least keep it in mind 'til I actually have the cutters on hand and can do a proper inventory, anyway.

I could also really use an NMTB-40 arbor, of any length, in 1-1/4" diameter, preferably with at least some spacers and a nut. Actually, for either the above cutters or this arbor, I'd be happy to buy outright if you have something available and don't necessarily wish to trade.

Doc.

J Tiers
10-30-2008, 08:31 AM
To swing some of those, you will need more like 40 RPM.......... The VFD may give you little power that low, which would be 10 or 12 Hz.......

Doc Nickel
10-30-2008, 09:18 AM
Good point. Checking Tony's site, the Nichols article says the lowest speed is actually 100 rpm for the 1HP motor and five-step pullies.

And I expect that the vast majority of my work, just like my work on the vertical mill, will be in aluminum, which will withstand somewhat faster cutting speeds.

Last, the biggest cutter the Nichols can spin is six inches. I would imagine the majority of my work will be at 4" OD and below, so assuming all that, hopefully I won't run out of adjustment too quickly. :D

Doc.

J Tiers
10-30-2008, 10:39 PM
Good point. Checking Tony's site, the Nichols article says the lowest speed is actually 100 rpm for the 1HP motor and five-step pullies.

And I expect that the vast majority of my work, just like my work on the vertical mill, will be in aluminum, which will withstand somewhat faster cutting speeds.

Last, the biggest cutter the Nichols can spin is six inches. I would imagine the majority of my work will be at 4" OD and below, so assuming all that, hopefully I won't run out of adjustment too quickly. :D

Doc.

Aluminum works OK with faster speeds, like 300 FPM. Mild steel is Ok at up to maybe 100 FPM max, better to stay at 80, most likely.

Tool type steels may need as low as 40 FPM.

A 4" cutter is 12.5" circumference, or 1.05 feet.

So 300 FPM with a 4" cutter is 285 rpm approx.

80 FPM is 76 rpm with a 4" cutter.

and finally, 40 FPM requires 38 RPM with a 4" cutter.

For a 6", take 2/3 of those rpms.

You may find that you burn corners off cutters and saws if working steels other than 1020 types, in which case you should slow down. One problem is that unless you have the power to boost the feed way up, the depth of cut per tooth is tiny, and most teeth just rub.

I find that a horizontal mill wants a slower RPM and a heavier feed, to make the cutters happiest. Mine goes down to 30 RPM with back gears, and I end up using that quite a bit.

Doc Nickel
10-30-2008, 11:43 PM
80 FPM is 76 rpm with a 4" cutter.

-So worst case, at least as far as I can forsee for the bulk of my work, is that I might have to use the VFD to turn the motor speed down by just 25 - 30%.

That's doable.

Or, I can use a cutter- which I'll bet I have :D - with fewer teeth for the same OD, to get the chipload back up for the unreduced spindle speed.

Unfortunately the Nichols doesn't have a backgear, but again, with the majority of my work being in aluminum, hopefully I won't have too many problems with it.

Doc.

Astronowanabe
10-30-2008, 11:55 PM
Doc... you have enough they could be considered disposable :)


<just kidding>


-So worst case, at least as far as I can forsee for the bulk of my work, is that I might have to use the VFD to turn the motor speed down by just 25 - 30%.

That's doable.

Or, I can use a cutter- which I'll bet I have :D - with fewer teeth for the same OD, to get the chipload back up for the unreduced spindle speed.

Unfortunately the Nichols doesn't have a backgear, but again, with the majority of my work being in aluminum, hopefully I won't have too many problems with it.

Doc.

Doc Nickel
10-31-2008, 03:13 AM
Final tally, wrapped, boxed and shipped: 1,227 cutters, of which a full third are new-in-the-wax. Plus five broken ones my loyal minion is going to throw in with his knifemaking steel stash.

That ended up being twelve small and one large USPS Flat-Rate boxes, with an estimated final weight somewhere north of six hundred pounds.

I might have to get a horizontal arbor for my vertical mill just to use them all. :D

Doc.

Bguns
10-31-2008, 04:43 AM
Get a Mill for every 100 Cutters....
And a Shop for every 10 Mills... :) Mines getting tight with just 3....
Might want to give the Kenai Post Office, some Back Pain Pills, if they come in same day :)

Doc Nickel
10-31-2008, 06:19 AM
Well, as much as I like my Nichols- it's fairly small and compact, and my shop is quite crowded- I'd still actually, someday, like to get a bigger one, something with maybe 5 HP and a 50 taper and a big cast iron dovetail overarm...

I don't have the room for it, I don't really even have the need for it, but if I ever run across one that's fairly cheap, I'll probably still jump at it. :)

Doc.

J Tiers
10-31-2008, 08:19 AM
That's doable.

Or, I can use a cutter- which I'll bet I have :D - with fewer teeth for the same OD, to get the chipload back up for the unreduced spindle speed.



it doesn't quite work that way, but you can try it for yourself..... and see.....

There is chipload, there is power, there is straight SFM and cutter edge heating.........fast dulls cutters by wear even at higher chiploads if the speed is up. And it takes power. Inserted carbide plus power equals high speeds.

Fewer teeth has other problems...... that lovely banging noise until the teeth are well in. You generally need to have about 2.5 teeth buried in the work at once to avoid the banging during a cut.

torker
10-31-2008, 04:17 PM
Well, as much as I like my Nichols- it's fairly small and compact, and my shop is quite crowded- I'd still actually, someday, like to get a bigger one, something with maybe 5 HP and a 50 taper and a big cast iron dovetail overarm...

I don't have the room for it, I don't really even have the need for it, but if I ever run across one that's fairly cheap, I'll probably still jump at it. :)

Doc.
Doc..nothing I've run to date can compare to a horizontal with 50 taper for just pure meaness when it comes to chompin metal.
It still amazes me when i can bury the whole 6" shell mill almost 3/16" deep in
a big block of steel.... and the machine doesn't even grunt or chatter or anything. It doesn't even slow down. Even at just 250 rpm the roostertail of chips is awesome to watch... at WOT (384 rpm) it's bloody wicked!
I'm really looking forward to see what my VN can do....three times the rpm,twice the hp and twice the weight of my Ohio :D
Russ