Tight TIG joint

[JRouche]

Hey guys.. I am welding some small fittings together. Its an inside T joint. I have always had problems with this joint. I end up having to use too much filler (.040" filler and electrode) and the bead is too big for the piece.

I just cant get the electrode in there close enough. And I have some small cups. So I end up sticking the electrode out far, way too far by the looks of it. Still within the gas flow. But is that what you do?? I am trying to get a small bead with a 1/32 to 1/16" fillet

Its stainless.

I guess another problem I have when trying to weld this small of an area is arc wander. Because its such a small joint I am pretty low on the current and that seems to make my arc want to jump from top to bottm, from one piece to the other instead of consetrating on the inner joint.

Any help would be great. As you see, Im trying to learn to use the TIG LOL

I think the wandering arc is most of my problems..

Thanks guys!!!!! JR

[rebel54]

If your heat is too low can cause the problem you are having. Also if the electrode is not sharpen properly could cause the same thing. Have you tried to increase your heat then after the welding starts to lower the output with the foot pedal as you start welding? A picture of the part would help to determine what can be done to help with your problem.

[macona]

I recommend the gas saver kit from CK worldwide. Its like a gas lens but has even better flow. You can really stick the tungsten way out there and still have good coverage.

So yes, stick your tungsten out if you have to.

[JRouche]

If your heat is too low can cause the problem you are having. Also if the electrode is not sharpen properly could cause the same thing. Have you tried to increase your heat then after the welding starts to lower the output with the foot pedal as you start welding? A picture of the part would help to determine what can be done to help with your problem.

And your right.. The heat is prolly a factor. I have thought about it after writing. I sometimes go in to the weld cold. I am gonna try to heat it up "hot" with the arc first and see if I can get the arc to start a good small puddle without having to go in cold and really hot with the torch. I know what you are saying. Like once I get the puddle, the arc does stabilize, it is attracted to the puddle where I want it. But to get to that point I end up having to start the puddle with alot more heat than I want on these small parts. But yeah, yer right. Once I get a lil 1/16" puddle going I can chase it just fine. And at a nice low heat. Just getting to that point is frustrating. I have to go way above that heat level. Preheating with the arc?? What do you think?

And yeah, my .040" electrode is good and sharp. Ground correctly. Oh, yeah, the metal is in pristine condition. Virgin you might say. Ground and cleaned with my "super solvent". Dont ask LOL Thanks.. JR

[JRouche]

I recommend the gas saver kit from CK worldwide. Its like a gas lens but has even better flow. You can really stick the tungsten way out there and still have good coverage.

So yes, stick your tungsten out if you have to.

Ok.. Thanks. I just didnt wanna think I was doing something stupid just to get it done the wrong way. It works but I didnt know if it was right. Haven't heard of that "gas saver" kit but where do you think Im gonna go look right now :) Yup.. Thanks. Im on it.. JR

I just went to their web page and I only saw some numbers for torches. Didnt see mine. Its and older torch and not a professional model. Its a Weldcraft CS310A. I may have to call them to see if they have a fitment.. Thanks :)

[torker]

JR.. I'd get that joint...nice tiny little fillet. You did say you already have a .040 tunsten...right? Turn your gas down...to about 10 cf.
.040 tungsten is hard to sharpen ...make sure the point is dead center...use a cordless drill to spin it while pinching it with your fingers to guide it...very light pressure.
I prefer Zirtung for them little guys. Don't get a real long taper on it or it'll just melt the tip.
Get rid of that huge filler ..use .023 mig wire. I prefer the uncoated cheaper stuff. Does a nicer job IMO.
If you can, turn the joint into a V..or flat position...this is were cupwalking absolutely is the bomb! But you'll do ok..
Try to keep your tungsten almost upright. If you tip it back as usual you will broadcast too much heat in front as you go and it'll ball up the little filler wire..keep it neat and tidy!
If you have to weld the T joint so you have a flat and a vert... feed your filler into the top, just below where you want the leg to end. The arc will slurp in perfectly into the bottom of the joint.
Somewhere on here I have pics of fillets I did that are slightly wider than a pin. The ones you want are pretty easy once you get the hang of it.
Russ

[JRouche]

JR.. I'd get that joint...nice tiny little fillet. You did say you already have a .040 tunsten...right? Turn your gas down...to about 10 cf.
.040 tungsten is hard to sharpen ...make sure the point is dead center...use a cordless drill to spin it while pinching it with your fingers to guide it...very light pressure.
I prefer Zirtung for them little guys. Don't get a real long taper on it or it'll just melt the tip.
Get rid of that huge filler ..use .023 mig wire. I prefer the uncoated cheaper stuff. Does a nicer job IMO.
If you can, turn the joint into a V..or flat position...this is were cupwalking absolutely is the bomb! But you'll do ok..
Try to keep your tungsten almost upright. If you tip it back as usual you will broadcast too much heat in front as you go and it'll ball up the little filler wire..keep it neat and tidy!
If you have to weld the T joint so you have a flat and a vert... feed your filler into the top, just below where you want the leg to end. The arc will slurp in perfectly into the bottom of the joint.
Somewhere on here I have pics of fillets I did that are slightly wider than a pin. The ones you want are pretty easy once you get the hang of it.
Russ


LOL!!!! Been waiting for you to chime in damm it!!! What?? Its only been an hour or two. :)))

Ok, thats exactly what I was looking to see.. I have been laying the filler down low. So come up from the top? Prolly been cooling the joint with too much lay down?? And melting the filler before it was in the joint. Im on that tip.

And Hmm, didnt think to lower my gas. makes sense, I have been pumping in the gas for aluminum work lately and it may be WAY too much for the small work..

And brother!!!! I swear you have been snooping around my lil shop here.. I bought three 30LBS spools of stainless .023" MIG wire fifteen years ago at swap meet for nuthing. Dragged them around for years. Actually designed a straightener for it cause I cant MIG it. I wanted to use it as TIG filler. And I cant hand feed a curvy piece of filler. LOL

So yeah!! I have tons of .023" SS wire to feed. Bout time I use it huh?? I have used some, tried to straighten it out to finger feed. That stuff is tough LOL

Ok, Im gonna straighten out a couple two foot sections. Ill dip those thin wires in from the top. Check my flow rate and heat up my metal abit. I may have been too low of an angle for my filler..

But hey!!!! What about my wandering arc. It only wanders till I get a good hot puddle. Huh??? What causes that. Too low a pedal? Like what "Rebel" was saying. Sometimes I will just let it wander, not melting much, the heat is low. Let it wander and it wont set on a point. Till a puddle is set, and the puddle sets on one or the other, never right in the joint where I want it. And I usually have to move the puddle down or up from one piece into the joint. Its not HF wander, the arc is lit, but it wants to jump from one piece to the other, Cant focus it. And its lit, I can chase it up one piece or the other and write my name if I want. It just does NOT want to go to the root of the joint no matter what, at really lower temps.. I can scribe my name in a piece thats all by itself no prob. But to hit the joint it wants to choose one piece or the other. ??

Thanks!!!! I love feeding off you experts!!! Freebie info for me :))) Thanks!!!!!!! JR

[torker]

JR...."T" joints are one of the toughest to do. The wander...it is because of the low amps to a certain extent. But it could be because you don't have the tungsten close enough. I run my tungsten in the puddle...literally. I can walk it and see the tip stirring the top of the puddle. It's not quite breaking through the surface tension of the molten metal. This is not for the faint of heart...you dip it in .001 too far and you know what will happen ;)
Another thing that comes to mind...do you have the metal cleaned exactly the same? I find that both pieces have to be identically cleaned...the low amp arc will want to go to the cleanest.
You'll likely have trouble with that small of SS filler wire. You may want to try to hold one piece very straight then wrap another piece around it... like a rope but with a straight core. This "should" add up to .046 but it doesn't act like that when you feed it.
You are taking on a very tough task here. I don't know what your eyesight is like but you want maximum magnification when doing this type of work. As in a cheater lens??? I'm bettin you already figured that one huh?
Another thing you may want to try is a 1/16" tungsten...ground to a long point. I find a more stable arc with that. Remember in a T joint it is critical to heat both pieces at once.
Another thing that can cause problems... too much dwell time. Sometimes we try to go too slow with too little heat. The more experience we get...the faster we can go with more heat...and a stabler arc.
OK...now I'm out of ideas...
*Edit*...one more...you may want to try different filler ideas...like .030 mig wire or .035...whatever it takes. I mentioned the ,023 because I spent most of one winter tigging new body panels into an old Camaro I rebuilt. It took me almost 4 days to weld in a new rear quarter but the results were outstanding. The whole quarter only took about a half cup of bondo to smooth it off. I also built a lot of my own patch panels including T joints and did most of it with 20 gu metal and .023 filler wire.
Russ

[shawnspeed]

Tip for straitening mig wire for hand feeding in tig applications.....get a pair of safety wire pliers, pinch one end in a vice and the other in the pliers and give the twist knob on the saftey wire plyers a couple of pulls and you have easy to feed mig wire for Tig welding....also do you have a ground jumper on your part or are you relying on contact with a metal table for your ground???when welding small/delicate parts I have found that a stranded (THN Wire)in the 10-12 ga area with large alligator clamps on both ends to attach to my ground clamp & the work also helped with the wandering arc on thin material.....Good luck Shawn