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GKman
12-17-2008, 08:46 AM
Have a big pond mostly drained so it will dry out to be cleaned. Usual procedure is to cut the dam but it's not making much sense on this one. I've cut down to remove the rusted out tube and siphoned most of the remaining water out. Most rain water is terraced away so it won't re-fill much until I want it to.

Guess I've spent too much time in the Netherlands because using a wind powered sump pump is making a lot of sense. Sump pumps are available on eBay cheap and somebody has a nice looking set of 3 fiberglass blades for a 6.8' wheel for about $60.00.
http://cgi.ebay.com/WindMax-Low-Startup-6-8FT-Wind-Turbine-Generator-Blades_W0QQitemZ120348765403QQcmdZViewItemQQptZEle ctrical_Solar_US?hash=item120348765403&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|2 93:2|294:50

400 watts of wind energy and a 1/3 hp sump pump should be a good match. How can I transmit the power from the windmill to the pump. 450 rpm windmill at 10' high 1750 rpm pump? Pump shaft could be vertical or horizontal but the fan would need to be able to rotate into the wind while the pump would be stationary.

Thread on gears from the dumpster got me thinking about it but nothing specific has come to mind.

Evan
12-17-2008, 09:04 AM
Wind power pond pumps are common as dirt in Alberta.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics3/windmill.jpg

Dawai
12-17-2008, 10:17 AM
WEIRD and I was just talking in pm about a pvc blade..

Grey pvc conduit bends freely.. you must heat it to the proper temperature..

I am going to carve out a stack of 2x12's into a 2-part blade form.. affix a plug on the ends.. then heat and "blow" the pipe to match the blade form..

People are cutting the blades out of pvc and they are working just fine.. go to youtube.. or I can post some links.. Kinda flimsy.. a full piece of pipe shaped properly would make it a lot stiffer.. and possibly blow-great stuff foam into the middle to give it more sectional stability.

My greenlee pvc bender-heater is six feet long.. making for a 12 foot diameter blade.. that's enough for most..

Dawai
12-17-2008, 10:24 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BawUfbDDvtA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEeAiuIL8Ew Easiest to make..

tdmidget
12-17-2008, 01:57 PM
Well GK every one else want's to tell you how to make blades instead of answering your question. The vertical shaft from the windmill would have to be centered so as to rotate. The way to do this is with a planetary gear set which will allow the input and out put shafts to be on the same centerline. Ypu did not say how much lift you need but the kind of pump you describe will not pump or lift much at low speeds. You might be better off with type of well pump most windmills have originally. It will pump at low speeds and fairly high lift if in good shape.

Dawai
12-17-2008, 02:15 PM
Ahh was pretty amazed once..

two three phased motors.. power on two legs.. tied to another 100' away.. as the first rotated, it would rotate the second.. Power was limited on the first via resistors.

It moved the shutter/scale showing the height of the water behind a dam built in the late 1800s..

I was confused.. how the heck did they have stepping motors way back then?? no steppers.. just phase connection.

GKman
12-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Ahh was pretty amazed once..

two three phased motors.. power on two legs.. tied to another 100' away.. as the first rotated, it would rotate the second.. Power was limited on the first via resistors.

It moved the shutter/scale showing the height of the water behind a dam built in the late 1800s..

I was confused.. how the heck did they have stepping motors way back then?? no steppers.. just phase connection.

David, I wondered about something like that. Would a pair of those dc treadmill motors do that or what I want? You might check what they are selling fiberglass or metal blades for. I wouldn't make them that cheap.

tdmidget,
Pond is so silted full that a 5' or 6' lift would be enough until I start digging it out. I thought that would be about ideal for a sump pump if I can get it all working together, horsepower, fan rpm to pump rpm, pump that wouldn't overload the fan 'til it gets up to speed. I carved out a 4' blade per Hugh Pigget and just used counterweights for the other two to test it. Thing would scare you to death the speed and power it put out. The old fashoned 18 blade were/are good for high starting torque but the blades mask each other and the efficiency is lousy plus why deal with 18 blades when 3 can do a better job? Thanks for the input.

J Tiers
12-17-2008, 08:32 PM
It's a basic mismatch, slow speed windmill (even as fast as it can go is slow) and a pump type (sump pump) that needs to go fast......

You'd be better off generating electricity and powering the pump.

Windmills are made to do pumping, with a sucker rod and traditional pump. Or, I suppose, a bucket chain would work.....

Gearing etc to get up to 1750 rpm is just not that sensible, as I see it. We just had a discussion of that in a thread on some sort of display using a windmill.

camdigger
12-17-2008, 09:06 PM
The wind mill Evan posted looks like the Koenders unit. That design uses a diaphragm air compressor and an air jet style water lift. If so, they are a bit limited in volume, and need a minimum hydrostatic head to work.