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Alistair Hosie
08-03-2003, 11:41 AM
I saw an ad on ebay for a truck which runs on vegetable oil (with a minor alteration )have you heard of this? Seems veggie oil can be bought for about a fifth of disel prices here in UK, and the authorities are getting annoyed at losing the high cost of tax on disel .I am really intersted in this as it makes a lot of sense seems to be free of polutants too so why not? They say it can be run on even old used and filtered cooking oil has anyone here heard of this.Alistair

Thrud
08-03-2003, 12:44 PM
The problem with those oils is they have a low caloric value so power is much lower than with heavy wax laden petroleum oils - #2 gives far more power, but is useless in the Arctic were the diesel is cleaar as water and pours at -55*C. #2 fuel viscosity is countered by the use of pour point depressants so it is possible to use it into the Yukon and Alaska. They also use Cetane boosters to advance the ignition curve and increase power from the fuel.

In Australia they have been testing vegitable oils and ethanol. Normally the two will never mix. They came up with a compound that makes the two miscible and are doing wear testing on pumps and injectors to see if it is viable. This combo gives extreme power and fuel economy to the diesel. It can utilize the discarded spluge from resturants (once filtered to less than .25 microns using a oil centrufuge). The goop has a milky appearance.

Any diesel can run on nearly any hydrocarbon Fluid. Herr Diesel actually designed it to run on coal dust (as it was to be used in the mines). The relative effeciency of the diesel depends on the caloric content and works best if Cetane is present (Cetane is the diesel analogue to octane in gasoline).

So the answer to your question is - yes, it can be done, but the motor may not run as effeciently or may need to be slightly modified for it to be reliable. It will work best on engines with very high compression ratios (~22:1).

Also, cooking oils here are far mor expensive than fuel oils.

[This message has been edited by Thrud (edited 08-03-2003).]

wierdscience
08-03-2003, 12:46 PM
Well the Japanese did it in WWII,at least on their large frame diesils,and after all the original diesil was intended to run on coal dust so why not?
There has been some interest in biodiesil here,I think most are a mixture of the normal stuff and vegatable oil,sounds promising as a suppliment anyway.

BC21OSH
08-03-2003, 12:52 PM
Alistair,

Yes, there are quite a few running in the US now. The Discovery Channel has run a story on a van that runs around the country from one fast food restaurant to the next collecting and processing the used deep frying oil to run their engine.

Bernard

mbensema
08-03-2003, 01:28 PM
You can find alot of info on it at this forum http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751 but you have to weed through many of the zealot comments. Another place is www.biodiesel.org (http://www.biodiesel.org)

In a nutshell, you can use it, but it is much more viscous then diesel or biodiesel, so modifications to your engine are required. If you process the vegtable oil through transesterification then it will be much less viscous and you can use it in a normal diesel engine without modifications. To make the biodiesel, you would have to be comfortable mixing chemicals, it requires a base and an alcohol to separate out the glycerides.

The forum should be able to answer all of your questions and there are many people from England that could probably help you with whatever you need as far as engine conversion or making it yourself.

Mike

Samuel
08-03-2003, 02:36 PM
In Portland Or, they sell 80 cut bio diesel( only 20 percent) at the pump. well ok only one that I have seen I think I remember it being 1.70$ or so. there is a local mechanic that only does bio refits. just my 2 cen. worth.

cheers

Samuel

SGW
08-03-2003, 04:31 PM
Yes, see www.biodiesel.org (http://www.biodiesel.org) and it will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

My brother-in-law is trying out B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% regular) in his diesel VW Jetta now. There's a public pump in Chelsea, MA that sells it.

As others have said, it's possible to run an engine on straight vegetable oil, but it works better if it's processed into something more resembling regular diesel. See the web site.

One really neat thing is that pure biodiesel is classed as non-hazardous, so if it spills it's not as big a deal; spilling a truckload on the ground would be like spilling a truckload of vegetable oil.

Johnson
08-03-2003, 05:19 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SGW:
Yes, see www.biodiesel.org (http://www.biodiesel.org) and it will tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

My brother-in-law is trying out B20 (20% biodiesel, 80% regular) in his diesel VW Jetta now. There's a public pump in Chelsea, MA that sells it.

As others have said, it's possible to run an engine on straight vegetable oil, but it works better if it's processed into something more resembling regular diesel. See the web site.

One really neat thing is that pure biodiesel is classed as non-hazardous, so if it spills it's not as big a deal; spilling a truckload on the ground would be like spilling a truckload of vegetable oil.

</font>

Spill biodiesel on asphalt and you'll have a crater in short time. It's a strong solvent, don't forget.

As to running on SVO, there is a kit from Elsbett that has been getting favorable reviews. http://www.Elsbett.com. For me, the cost of the kit is beyond what I want to pay, it would take too long to recover given that the TDI gets 50 MPG... and since I can make my own B100, I'm happy enough with that.

Another most excellent biodiesel site not yet mentioned here is http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html

Tuckerfan
08-03-2003, 07:20 PM
SGW, your brother might want to be careful with that. Newer VW's fuel systems aren't up to the task of handling biodiesel, so a greater ratio of biodiesel to ordinary diesel might cause him problems.

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Alistair Hosie
08-03-2003, 07:27 PM
The stuff this guy was using was ordinary cooking oil not biodiesel so spill it on your asphalt and it would not melt it.I think these are two different things biodiesel seems much more sophisticated than what this guy was doing he bought ordinary cooking oil from the supermarket much cheaper than diesel as it is so highly taxed here and his truck went like the clappers.Alistair

gunsmith
08-03-2003, 08:11 PM
Something that you may not realize with using vegetable oil is that it is a great preservative. I use to store large diesel motors, 1000 hp and up by first firing them on heavy diesel and then separating the fuel line before the injector and switching to corn oil. It will leave the engine, injectors and pump in almost perfect condition years later and ready to start again. Vegetable oil, in my case corn oil contains no acids. It is also a great winter preservative for gas burning engines as well. As far as running them on vegetable oil this I have done and it was all they could do to creap in low gear to the storage area after the switch over.

siminov
08-03-2003, 11:37 PM
for those interested check out http://www.greasel.com/

jfsmith
08-04-2003, 01:15 AM
Every year they have aalternate fuel contest and a few years ago, so guy with a Bentz disel, poured in liquid vegatble oil and the car did run for a bit.

Jerry

Alistair Hosie
08-04-2003, 09:52 AM
Simonov that article is very good thanks Alistair

hms50
08-04-2003, 09:55 AM
Last year a women showed up at school and wanted to know if we would build her a converter to take used french fry oil and make it into bio-deisel. We did and she demonstrated the process. Pretty neat. She now makes about 25% of her home heating oil. It's nor hard to do, but does take some time and you have to work with lye.
hms50