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View Full Version : A question for the guys from Australia..



torker
12-22-2008, 08:27 PM
Is this true..or just some hocus sent around the internet?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prime Minister John Howard - Australia


Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law Were told on
Wednesday to get out of Australia , As the government targeted
radicals in a bid to head Off potential terror attacks. Separately,
Howard angered some Australian Muslims On Wednesday by saying he
supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.


Quote:


'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.
I am tired of this nation worrying About whether we are offending some
individual or their Culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali ,
we have Experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority Of
Australians. ' 'This culture has been developed over two centuries
Of struggles, trials and victori es by millions of men And women who
have sought freedom' 'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese,
Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.
Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society. Learn the language!'
'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right
wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on
Christian principles, Founded this nation, and this is clearly
documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls
Of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you Consider
another part of the world as your new home,
Because God is part of our culture.'


'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is
that you accept ours, and live in harmony And peaceful enjoyment with
us.'


'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, And we will allow
you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done
complaining, whining, and griping About Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
advantage of one Other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force You to come
here. You asked to be here. So accept the Country YOU accepted.'
Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American and Canadian
citizens will find the Backbone to start speaking and voicing the
same

Evan
12-22-2008, 09:17 PM
There isn't a single reputable news web site that has reported this.

bollie7
12-22-2008, 09:27 PM
Torker
Hocus pokus.
John Howard hasn't been Prime Minister for over 12 months now. He was a politician, he would have never said something like that. might have lost a few votes. Besides, something like that is not "politically correct". In fact I don't think any of our pollies would have the balls to say something like that publicly. It would be political suicide.

A lot of the people here probably think that way but wouldn't be game enough to air their views publicly because of the media frenzy that would follow. The media here have never been known to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
We have pretty strong anti racist/descrimination laws here but sometimes it seems that they work the other way.

bollie7

Bones
12-22-2008, 09:28 PM
If he hasn't said it, I wish he would.

bones

R W
12-22-2008, 09:36 PM
Torker
Hocus pokus.
John Howard hasn't been Prime Minister for over 12 months now.

A lot of the people here probably think that way

Migrants of whatever background have been welcome in Australia,but have
no right to expect us to change our laws or way of life to suit them.

Would also agree with Bones.

oldtiffie
12-22-2008, 09:48 PM
Russ.

Thanks for that.

I've had that message come in at least three times in the last week - all from our own brand of hot-headed "red-necks".

I think you'd need to source that quote from ex-Prime Minister John Howard - I'm not sure its true.

The rest of the stuff has been circulating among the so-called "White Supremists", xenophobics and those on "the fringe".

John Howard got on very well with Muslims and all other religions etc. both in our "home-born" and immigrant communities. The new Government under (fluent Mandarin-speaking) Prime Minister Kevin Rudd get on very well with Indonesia as well. We do and will continue to have our differences with Indonesis but we respect each others positions and agree to disagree. There is a very large Australian expatriate community in Indonesia. They are a big trading partner too that we have a lot of Agreements and Pacts with.

We are having some relatively minor problems with some immigrants "settling in", Islamics included, but by and large, given where they and other religions have all come from in out migrant intakes, its not too bad at all.

Some of the problems with previous intakes of immigrants from all parts of Europe were that they brought their religious, cultural and ethnic differences with them as well. They were just as bad if not worse than any we've had with Islamic immigrants. The children gradually inter-mingle and become part of the polyglot cosmopolitan mix that were are and are to be.

And yes, we have our share of "Red-necks" (the worst variety) as well as so-called ""Nazi"-type anti everything and everyone else" brigades too. So the USA, UK and Europe etc. haven't got them all!!

One of the big problems is the sensationalist media/press (not all by any means) that seems more interested in making or being the news instead of just reporting and commentating and seeking balanced comment from the wider community here. Their job is to sell papers and and advertising anyway they can. They are just as bad as the sensationalist "Tabloid" media in the UK.

We get on pretty well with Indonesia really, and just as well, as it might surprise some outside OZ to know that we can just about see Indonesia from our northern shorelines and also that Indonesia has the largest Islamic community in the world - bigger than any in Asia, Africa, Europe etc. So we just about literally have them on our door-step.

Given that there is so much concern elsewhere, it is a bit difficult to see the "drama" and "frenzy" that is whipped up over-seas (including the USA).

We have fought several undeclared wars with Indonesia and we have lost poeople in several terrorists bombings in Indonesia too, so all in all we are in a better position than most as regards required levels of concern etc.

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesia



The Republic of Indonesia (pronounced /ˌɪndoʊˈniːziə/ or /ˌɪndəˈniːʒə/) (Indonesian: Republik Indonesia), is a country in Southeast Asia. Comprising 17,508 islands, it is the world's largest archipelagic state. With an estimated population of around 237 million people,[3] it is the world's fourth most populous country and the most populous Muslim-majority nation; however, no reference is made to Islam in the Indonesian constitution. Indonesia is a republic, with an elected legislature and president. The nation's capital city is Jakarta. The country shares land borders with Papua New Guinea, East Timor and Malaysia. Other neighboring countries include Singapore, the Philippines, Australia, and the Indian territory of the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.


Although religious freedom is stipulated in the Indonesian constitution,[110] the government officially recognizes only six religions: Islam; Protestantism; Roman Catholicism; Hinduism; Buddhism; and Confucianism.[111] Although it is not an Islamic state, Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim-majority nation, with almost 86.1% of Indonesians declared Muslim according to the 2000 census.[83] 8.7% of the population is Christian,[112] 3% are Hindu, and 1.8% Buddhist or other. Most Indonesian Hindus are Balinese,[113] and most Buddhists in modern-day Indonesia are ethnic Chinese.[114] Though now minority religions, Hinduism and Buddhism remain defining influences in Indonesian culture. Islam was first adopted by Indonesians in northern Sumatra in the 13th century, through the influence of traders, and became the country's dominant religion by the 16th century.[115] Roman Catholicism was brought to Indonesia by early Portuguese colonialists and missionaries,[116] and the Protestant denominations are largely a result of Dutch Calvinist and Lutheran missionary efforts during the country's colonial period.[117] A large proportion of Indonesians—such as the Javanese abangan, Balinese Hindus, and Dayak Christians—practice a less orthodox, syncretic form of their religion, which draws on local customs and beliefs.[118]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Indonesia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISLAM

torker
12-22-2008, 10:24 PM
OK..Thanks! That's why i asked...I couldn't see any politician saying that without a major worldwide uproar.
I also forgot about Indonesia being so close to you guys.
I've watched a couple of shows about the big muslim popultaion there as well.

.RC.
12-23-2008, 04:07 AM
As others have said our ex PM has not said that and the retarded wanker we currently have in power certainly wouldn't say it...I may piss off a few here by calling our current PM a retard but considering he is trying to implement a mandatory internet censorship scheme I have no love for him whatsoever..(along with his other hair brained schemes)

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/91593,conroy-expands-isp-filter-tests-to-examine-p2p-and-bittorrent-traffic.aspx

Your Old Dog
12-23-2008, 06:25 AM
Torker, I was going to make that thread but decided the better against it. I was afraid I'd find out he didn't write it and I liked thinking he did better :D

Would be nice if just one damn politician wasn't in it for "tomorrow" and lived for "today" only. I never supported "term limits" but I am an advocate for them now. We couldn't possibly do any worse. The current method of term limits, the vote, is not working by a long shot. I expect to see Angelina Jolie elected to President in 4 years just to make it fair.

Evan
12-23-2008, 07:30 AM
This quote sums up the Canadian perspective fairly well.


"The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear.
Will Ferguson

Peter N
12-23-2008, 08:36 AM
I have some sympathy for those views, and how our own cultures are being slowly eroded by those that would enforce a local parity with an alien culture in a foreign homeland.

However, before I get castigated as a racist or religionist or bigot, I should explain that my point of view is that of an immigrant myself. Whilst I generally view myself as British (except when international sport is concerned..), I was not born in Britain, I don't have British parents, and my wife is Italian. My children are polyglot European mongrels. We have all lived in England for most of our lives, are all British citizens, and all have British passports.
I'm a fierce defender of British Culture, and a fierce critic of policy and government when I believe it is wrong.

But I do object very strongly to those who would impose their culture over ours. If I lived in Australia or the US, I wouldn’t give up my Britishness one bit, but would accept and adopt the law, the mores of Society, and the cultural norms of behaviour. To do less is both insulting and anarchic to the host country that has taken you in.

My brother writes a rather good political blog ( http://raedwald.blogspot.com/ ), and I’ll make no apology for a few cut & pastes and quotes from some of his past missives. I think that one of his more accurate descriptions of the issue is that
“ Multiculturalism is just Apartheid in a posh frock”, and I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment.
The fact that our weak willed governments seek to appease the minorities by trashing our heritage – for the sake of political correctness and re-election – makes me spiting mad. They can’t seem to grasp that we want a future for our children and their children that embraces cultural diversity, not cultural abandonment, and keeps the values that have made our individual nations what they are. Multiculturalism has created more division and more racism within our societies then ever before, and has managed to achieve exactly the opposite of what I’m sure the original intent was to be. It has given birth to extreme right wing political parties (the BNP in Britain for example) and has fuelled simmering resentment on both sides of the fence.
Any immigrant, no matter what the colour of their skin or whatever their religious beliefs, should integrate with Society, not separate from it.

The picture below and the accompanying text from the Blog will also strike a chord with many I’m sure:

If you don't like it here, Piss Off.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_02/policeES1807_468x369.jpg

Raedwald said...
Oh dear. Looking at this post again tonight, I suppose I might be mistaken for a Supremacist White Thug myself. However, the post heading was my visceral reaction first thing this morning, so it's honest at least.
It's the wording on the sign that so infuriated me. 'BRITISH Police go to hell', not 'POLICE go to hell'. The protesters are not just having a go at the Police (something we all do from time to time) they're having a go at the Police for being British or protecting the British way of life. Yes, protesting against the Police is quite British and OK. Protesting against your hosts and benefactors, and the Police who are your defence against hatred and violence, in costume that many of them will find alien and repulsive is not OK.

There is another interesting -and balanced -view on multiculturalism and its effect on our society and the history we teach here: http://raedwald.blogspot.com/2008/08/curse-of-slavery.html

With apologies to all for posting a Political Rant on a machining forum. I won't do it again, but had to get this off my chest. I'll understand if George wants to delete this or lock it.

Peter

Teenage_Machinist
12-23-2008, 11:54 AM
FEARFUL DISCRIMINATION
AND BLAZING INDIGNATION!
RISE ABOVE THE FEAR!


I find the inexplicable fear of Muslims.... INEXPLICABLE

CONSIDERING that there is little risk of a country being taken over by "immigrnts"

Every country West of the Sea and North of the Isthmus is new and subject to the numbers and the wills of those within it's borders, including mine. (will and country)

jmm360
12-23-2008, 01:51 PM
This quote sums up the Canadian perspective fairly well."The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear.
Will Ferguson

Who's Will Ferguson? As an American that's spent a lot of time in Canada, I've never once felt they "wanted to keep me out".

Your Old Dog
12-23-2008, 02:16 PM
I've never once felt they "wanted to keep me out".

Try to earn a $5.00 bill up there if you aren't a citizen! The Canadians routinely come down to Buffalo to work the hockey games but it won't wash the other way, we aren't allowed. Jobs only go one way.

jmm360
12-23-2008, 02:32 PM
Try to earn a $5.00 bill up there if you aren't a citizen! The Canadians routinely come down to Buffalo to work the hockey games but it won't wash the other way, we aren't allowed. Jobs only go one way.

I've earned a few fivers in Canada and I have a herd of American cousins doing so, I admit it's not easy though.

Astronowanabe
12-23-2008, 02:59 PM
Australia is however extending censoring their internet
to include bittorrent packets beginning pretty much now.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,24833959-5014239,00.html

pcarpenter
12-23-2008, 03:01 PM
I find the inexplicable fear of Muslims.... INEXPLICABLE


TM-- please first understand that I don't hate any particular nationality of individuals, but I do want to help you with your "misunderstanding". I will assume that your "handle" is correct and that you are a teenager. At most, then, you are 19 years old. Likely, then, you were at most 12 years old when the United States was attacked by a group that distinguished themselves not by nationality or government, but by their religion. That religion was Islam and no other specific religion since has called for the complete destruction of the United States, or Israel as have some who represent themselves as Muslims. Are they incorrectly representing their religion? Perhaps, although the Koran seems to suggest that they are to pursue the destruction of "infadels". Having been once attacked by that group and since heard plenty of cries for more of the same, I don't know that one can emphatically state that the fear is "irrational".

That having been said, there are those of the Muslim faith who make it clear that they do not see things this way. More power to them, but they are not the most outspoken group.

Even beyond the concern people have based on acts of terrorism is the more general issue of having one's national customs and culture diminshed. Many mid-eastern nations do not care for the western influences in their societies in recent years and I believe they are entitled to that. Why then, can't people on the other side of the fence prefer that their customs and ways be preserved also? This doesn't require that you hate anyone or want to restrict any group from immigrating. Rather, it simply suggests that those who do immigrate should accept our culture and be a part of it and be willing to understand that we may not want to change our culture to include all parts of theirs.

You know the old joke...the great thing about standards is that their are so many to choose from. Likewise with nations....if you want a country like, say, Iran...then go to Iran, but understand that the US is not Iran and doesn't want to be.

Paul