PDA

View Full Version : Best begineers CNC book?



torker
12-24-2008, 07:38 PM
Hey guys...the gurl wants to take a stab at this cnc business. She wants a book to read and help her learn the basics...g-code etc.
Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks!
Russ

studentjim
12-24-2008, 08:02 PM
Torker, I have a very good book on learning cnc it is called " 7 Easy steps to CNC Programming...A Beginners guide. You can check out the authors website
www.haydenpub.com. I'm not sure if it's the best but I consider it very good.

Jim

oldtiffie
12-24-2008, 08:05 PM
That post has made my day Russ. Anyone who can take what has been dished out to the Gurl and just get up, dust herself off and get going as she does is an example to us all.

She seems to personify the old sayings that too many men think only applies to them - it doesn't, but it sure as hell applies to a lot of women:
"When the going gets tough - the tough get going"; and

"If they were any tougher they'd rust".

And they do it in style with no loss of dignity or femininity.

And you are no mean person or "boss" either - there are way too few of you about.

I'd suggest that John Stevenson would be the best for CNC advice in this instance as he really "knows his onions" and he and the Gurl are "down-to-earth" and "no-nonsense" people, that they should get this "sorted" in very quick time.

It is a "given" that John Stevenson has set up many "small/HSM" CNC-ed machines in so many shops for so many novices and gets a lot of "return", "word of mouth" and "referral" business. He has a down-to-earth approach and talks "to" rather then "at" or "down to" people at their level and encourages them rather than confusing or demeaning them by telling them how much he knows etc.

John would be hard to beat.

I hope that this and your Christmas and 2009 are all that you and yours wish and hope for.

Dawai
12-24-2008, 09:47 PM
The Mach3 manual is the best explanation I have ever read. Interface, how it works.. how the computer works.. gcode (program control code) and all..

It is available from the Mach3 website.. it has changed.. used to be www.artofcnc.ca (http://www.artofcnc.ca).. now it is?? You will have to google it..

You know of course you need a decent design program to go with any hardware/software that runs the machine.. OK?? The better flame-plasma-waterjet has a swarf offset made right into it.. you can draw a part that is say one inch wide and it comes out one inch wide.. not one inch minus half swarf cut width..

There is programs which take things like autocad dxf drawings and makes "gcode" movements off it.. but nothing works as good as mastercam or other devoted design software..

Some programs that run the cnc are HUNDREDS OF thousands of lines of code.. noway a human can write stuff like that anymore.

I have fell behind.. Not worked in my trade for a while now.

The better cnc software looks ahead, goes into the next line of gcode seamlessly.. the old stuff stopped at the completetion of each line..

I got a hobby machine here.. not a production one. Beware of the chinese software, they all have hidden stuff in them. All that software that is high dollar talks back to homebase with updates about what the software is doing, and where..

I'd get the Super-Gurl some 3d modeling training somewhere.. NOW I have seen a mastercam tutorial disc somewhere.. One of my canadian friends got me a manual book. I have had to threaten people to keep it here.. I don't see it right now, so it might have finally snuck out the door under somebodys coat.. JUST the book was over a hundred. The engineers I know lust after things like that.. most don't even have a cnc..

Edit:
I found it for ya..
http://www.machsupport.com/

OHH.. and before you write a check.. BOBCAD I purchased.. well, it blue screened the intel-processor-intel motherboard computer about three hundred times over a year.. I finally started keeping a notepad next to the computer recording the events, what caused them dates, times, and number of events.. I got my money back out of it.. I was "cofer-headed" stubborn and kept after them till I did..
they may have fixed it now, but.. It'd have to be mighty cheap for me to buy it again.. That was about five years ago.

David

Dawai
12-24-2008, 09:59 PM
I THINK, if I lived out in the sticks.. I'd build me a "cnc sand carver"...

Press the mulled sand, carve the shape out.. pour both carved halves full of metal..

Smile.. one offs are worth so much more money than repops..

I was carving UHMW/wood for molds back when I was casting a lot.. I never got the hang of Shrinkage calculations.. nor the thickness variance cracks that come up.

I can not melt metal where I live.

motorworks
12-24-2008, 09:59 PM
Dave beat me to it but Mach 3 manual is the best...

lazlo
12-24-2008, 10:49 PM
Hang out on CNCZone, read the build logs for the various CNC mills (JGro' (http://www.cnczone.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&file=viewarticle&id=4)s is a classic), read the FAQ's on ballscrews, servos versus steppers, ...

wierdscience
12-24-2008, 11:20 PM
Nother vote for Mach3,it's so simple even I can do it:D

macona
12-24-2008, 11:35 PM
Best thing would be to have her go to a local community college to get some training. You can read all the books you want but until you have a machine and see what happens when you do what its real tough to get things to stick.

torker
12-24-2008, 11:42 PM
LOL! Ya...that'd be nice...local college...600 miles away and she needs to work full time to stay afloat.
BTW..."Super Gurl" is no more...she's got other serious health problems...that we're hoping will get better.
Depression is a major thing now too.
She was on top of the world 7 months ago...now...it's pretty bleak. Just trying to give the kid a bright spot...something to look forward to.
I'll try the Mach 3 deal if you guys say it's the way.
Thanks!
Russ

oldtiffie
12-25-2008, 12:08 AM
.................................................. ..

BTW..."Super Gurl" is no more...she's got other serious health problems...that we're hoping will get better.
Depression is a major thing now too.
She was on top of the world 7 months ago...now...it's pretty bleak. Just trying to give the kid a bright spot...something to look forward to.
..............................................



Jeezuz.

That's a hell of a hand to be dealt with and a crying shame.

"Depression" covers a multitude of some God-awful things.

I sure do hope that she is only "depressed" and not with any of the "biggies".

"Bleak" can be a real understatement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressed

Your Old Dog
12-25-2008, 08:51 AM
sent you a PM.

Butch Moses
12-25-2008, 10:54 AM
another PM

Evan
12-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Mach III has a manual?

mochinist
12-25-2008, 12:23 PM
Are there any local cnc shops, maybe she could do some sweeping/help around their shop for some CNC experience before you go spend thousands of dollars getting setup.

John Stevenson
12-25-2008, 01:26 PM
Mach III has a manual?

Yup.

http://www.machsupport.com/docs/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf

.

Dawai
12-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Yes.. Mach3 has a manual.. one of the best explanatory compilations available anywhere.. SO.. if someone wanted to go take a six month course at the college, they could just read the mach3 pdf and get more education at their own pace..

Then there is the yahoo group where you can talk to the author himself.. A damn nice guy..

NOW Mach3 has a camera input for centering.. If they'd just build a 3d scanner into it?? come on now..

oldtiffie
12-25-2008, 05:24 PM
Yup.

http://www.machsupport.com/docs/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf

.

Thanks John.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

I thought I had that file on my computer - seems not. I started to down-load it and the computer disconnected several times. Then I got/get a response that the file is damaged and will not load under "Acrobat 6" - which usually works fine.

Can anyone point me to a "working" copy of that file please?

John Stevenson
12-25-2008, 05:29 PM
Dump Acrobat and get Foxit Reader.
far better, smaller, quicker and doesn't barf out like Acrobat.

I have just opened that file in Foxit, took about 10 seconds then did a save as so the file isn't corrupt.

[Edit] This version is quite new, with 2 or three months.
the old version was based on Mach 2, upgraded to Mach3 but still a long way behind.
This new copy has been written in the US by a professional manual writer.


.

mochinist
12-25-2008, 05:31 PM
John beat me to it


adobe is crap

torker
12-25-2008, 06:03 PM
OK..That explains why it took me all afternoon to load the file...had to instal Adopey7 to get it to work.
Mo...there's no cnc shops here at all.
One guy just leased $150,000 worth of HAAS equipement...with no work for it. Last I heard...the lease company was going to take the stuff back. He never even got any tooling for it yet.... and he has no clue how to run it.

macona
12-25-2008, 06:27 PM
Yes.. Mach3 has a manual.. one of the best explanatory compilations available anywhere.. SO.. if someone wanted to go take a six month course at the college, they could just read the mach3 pdf and get more education at their own pace..

Then there is the yahoo group where you can talk to the author himself.. A damn nice guy..

NOW Mach3 has a camera input for centering.. If they'd just build a 3d scanner into it?? come on now..

There is a probing plug in for mach that will scan an object if you have a probe.

Evan
12-25-2008, 06:41 PM
[Edit] This version is quite new, with 2 or three months.
the old version was based on Mach 2, upgraded to Mach3 but still a long way behind.
This new copy has been written in the US by a professional manual writer.



That's why I questioned. This new version looks very decent.

oldtiffie
12-25-2008, 07:26 PM
Thanks John.
Merry Christmas to you and yours.

I thought I had that file on my computer - seems not. I started to down-load it and the computer disconnected several times. Then I got/get a response that the file is damaged and will not load under "Acrobat 6" - which usually works fine.

Can anyone point me to a "working" copy of that file please?



Dump Acrobat and get Foxit Reader.

far better, smaller, quicker and doesn't barf out like Acrobat.

I have just opened that file in Foxit, took about 10 seconds then did a save as so the file isn't corrupt.

[Edit] This version is quite new, with 2 or three months.
the old version was based on Mach 2, upgraded to Mach3 but still a long way behind.
This new copy has been written in the US by a professional manual writer.

Thanks John for the excellent advice.

It won't surprise you to know that I've been told that and meant to down-load it, forgot etc. often enough, never did it and came the inevitable "gutser".

Thanks for the pointer and rescue - Foxit was down-loaded and installed. Worked fine.

Mucho gratias.

DR
12-25-2008, 08:00 PM
Yup.

http://www.machsupport.com/docs/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf

.


Is there a programming manual? This appears to be an installation manual.

I'm curious to see what features Gcode-wise have been implemented.

oldtiffie
12-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Dennis,

have a look here as it might help.

http://www.machsupport.com

http://www.machsupport.com/documentation.php

John Stevenson
12-25-2008, 08:21 PM
Is there a programming manual? This appears to be an installation manual.

I'm curious to see what features Gcode-wise have been implemented.

Dennis,
it is inside the main mach program, you call the screen up on a G code or M code button.
Here's [ hopefully ] a link to the file it calls.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Mach3MillGcode.htm

.

SGW
12-25-2008, 08:36 PM
I believe a revised Mach3 user's guide is in the works. No schedule yet. I don't think it will be a "how to program GCode" book, but there are a ton of those already.

mochinist
12-25-2008, 09:57 PM
OK..That explains why it took me all afternoon to load the file...had to instal Adopey7 to get it to work.
Mo...there's no cnc shops here at all.
One guy just leased $150,000 worth of HAAS equipement...with no work for it. Last I heard...the lease company was going to take the stuff back. He never even got any tooling for it yet.... and he has no clue how to run it.Hmm you gotta wonder about some people, thats just nuts.

Anyways there is a lot of good advice in this thread so far and I would normally be against telling you to get one of these small hobby cnc mills to try and make money with, but I wouldn't want you to be like the guy you described either. Maybe with a small hobby mill she could start off by making small jewelry type items to sell on etsy.com or something. That way you could get a new working machine that doesn't break the bank. A used cnc can be a real nightmare like someone said above and I imagine the problems would be tenfold since you don't have a lot of the support that would be available in a big city.

Dawai
12-25-2008, 10:09 PM
There are vbscripts wizards in Mach3 that do most the cnc work here.. Polar holes.. a few clicks away..

Multiple holes.. face off.. circular mill, bore larger holes with a small end mill..

If you ain't got the work for it, but got the payments you are going downhill fast.. just cause you got the ability to buy something don't mean you can profit from it..

NOBODY has ever bought themselves "RICH" it takes selling or work..

torker
12-26-2008, 08:36 AM
The guy with the HAAS equipment...he came to me to try to get me to go into partnership with him before he got this stuff.
LOL! Good one...he "was" going to set the world on fire...he was going to get all kinds of work thru the internet. He was totally sold on that outfit that finds jobs for machine shops (MFG.com ?). He paid the membership fee etc.
He did hire a cnc guy from another province...the guy soon quit...he came here looking for a job and filled me in on the "details".
Anyway... a kind fellow from here(Butch Moses)has offered to send me a book to get this started.
I contacted Jeff at Xylotex to get a new driver for my rotab and I've downloaded the Mach 3 stuff for her to look at. I'll get her to wire in the new driver...get a different computer and instal Mach 3...and she can fool with what I have now to see if she can do it.
I need some gears made for my quill driver on my mill. That'll keep her busy for awhile.
I think for now that'll be far enough.
Thanks for the info guys!
Russ

hitnmiss
12-26-2008, 09:03 AM
I found this from Sherline pretty good G code primer and the cost is right:

http://www.sherline.com/CNCinst.pdf

mochinist
12-26-2008, 10:21 AM
Yeah mfg.com tried getting me, about 5 minutes with google was enough to see that it wasn't a good company to get involved with. If I remember right they wanted around 6 thousand up front, just so you can bid on their jobs and get beat out by someone doing it for less than you can buy the material for.