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Teenage_Machinist
12-31-2008, 04:44 PM
I have noticed that the complete forum rules are not listed in a forum. Can Buliss or another post and stickey them some we can know what is an is not OT< what rules for arguments are?


I pray to god for less than 10 replies here.

Evan
12-31-2008, 04:53 PM
Rule 1: No advertising

Rule 2: See rule 1

mochinist
12-31-2008, 05:27 PM
1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.

dp
12-31-2008, 05:29 PM
And never, ever mention converting a radial arm saw to do surface grinding.

Phil McCrackin
12-31-2008, 06:07 PM
And never, ever mention converting a radial arm saw to do surface grinding.


Really? ......You can do that? LOL

John Stevenson
12-31-2008, 06:09 PM
Don't mention knurling....................


.

Bmyers
12-31-2008, 06:13 PM
or Harbor Freight vs Enco lathes
opps wrong forum

oldtiffie
12-31-2008, 06:20 PM
Rule 1: Use common sense and precedence (what has been OK (or not banned) in the past.

Rule 2: If in doubt ask George.

Rule 3: What George decides or does is not open to or subject to question (He has, as have all VP Moderators, done very well indeed so far) and he DOES NOT have to "explain" or concede to or defer to ANYBODY - end of story.

Rule 4: If in doubt, just keep pushing the limit/envelope until the "axe" falls and you "get it in the neck".

If I recall correctly, George Bulliss (Happy New Year George) said previously, at or just after the "IOWOLF"-ie affair that he was in the process of looking into updating "The Rules", but that it would take some time as he was busy and this is not an easy task.

I suggest that we leave it to George B to be completed or proceeded in due time without undue haste in "the fullness of time".

In the meantime I suggest we we keep "self regulating" and that we are within George's very generous limits if a post or thread is not deleted or if a thread is not "locked".

In the meantime I suggest a (re??)reading of the "Rules" at the opening page for the forum, which seem to have served their purpose pretty well for quite a while and which for the "General" and other fora are:



General (*** Viewing)
This forum reserved for your comments and discussion about anything pertaining to our magazines or machining and metalworking in general. It's a place for feedback, idea exchange, criticism, kudos, sharing your expertise, your hobby or virtually anything else that other home shop machinists would be interested in. I will be monitoring it on a regular basis and will participate as it seems appropriate. However, for the most part, it's your forum. I hope you will use it regularly.



Home Shop Welding (* Viewing)
No rules posted - but use common sense.



Networking (* Viewing)
Need to brainstorm? Feeling isolated? Here's another forum for you to connect with other hobby machinists who share your specific interest. Fill in the information slots and add a brief statement about your interest and whom you would like to hear from. You can remove your listing at any time.


Third Hand (4 Viewing)
This forum is for seeking and finding help in a variety of ways. You may be seeking advice on a way of solving a problem you have in your shop. Or possibly you just bought a used lathe or some other machine tool, but the seller didn't have an owner's manual, parts list or operating instructions, so you are in need of one. Perhaps you want to contact a manufacturer, but don't have any information about their address or phone. In other words, any help you need can be solicited here. One thing we insist upon, however; this is not a place to sell something. Also, out of courtesy to the helper, the offer of payment for photocopies and postage is certainly in order.

mochinist
12-31-2008, 06:24 PM
If there was a no kissing George's arse rule, Tiffie would get multiple violations for that post

lazlo
12-31-2008, 06:38 PM
Don't mention knurling...............

Or ask about collets versus endmills. Or ER collets versus 5C :D

oldtiffie
12-31-2008, 06:42 PM
If there was a no kissing George's arse rule, Tiffie would get multiple violations for that post

Probably right in-as-much as my attitude - so I've been told often enough - is that "You can kiss my ar$e" - which applies here too.

Irrespective of how or what you think of me or the "Rules" and how they are administered - or not- just show me where I am wrong in fact - and not as you think "it should be".

If you want to address an issue as regards the "Rules", it will ultimately wind up in George's hands/lap for him to decide.

If you feel that we should all know what you think - post it here. If you want to "go private" - so we can't see it - use PM or email. But in any case address it to George for decision. Addressing it to the rest of us can only be "for comment only" as we can only "talk about it".

That you - or anyone else - may or may not like me or what I say or the "Rules" and how George/VP administers them won't change anything until - and if - George sees fit to decide and publishes it.

In the meantime the "status quo" remains.

You don't have to love or like it, but you do have to put up with it.

Live with it.

mochinist
12-31-2008, 06:47 PM
Probably right in-as-much as my attitude - so I've been told often enough - is that "You can kiss my ar$e" - which applies here too.

Irrespective of how or what you think of me or the "Rules" and how they are administered - or not- just show me where I am wrong in fact - and not as you think "it should be".

If you want to address an issue as regards the "Rules", it will ultimately wind up in George's hands/lap for him to decide.

If you feel that we should all know what you think - post it here. If you want to "go private" - so we can't see it - use PM or email. But in any case address it to George for decision. Addressing it to the rest of us can only be "for comment only" as we can only "talk about it".

That you - or anyone else - may or may not like me or what I say or the "Rules" and how George/VP administers them won't change anything until - and if - George sees fit to decide and publishes it.

In the meantime the "status quo" remains.

You don't have to love or like it, but you do have to put up with it.

Live with it.post more of the obvious, throw in a few wikipedia links for the hell of it also.

DFMiller
12-31-2008, 06:48 PM
What about the most important one.
All equipment must be painted the right shade of GREEN.
Nothing else is acceptable.
Happy New Years to all
Dave

Evan
12-31-2008, 06:56 PM
Want to see an example of real forum rules?

Look here:

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1826

lazlo
12-31-2008, 07:06 PM
On a less contentious point, I think a sticky FAQ might be beneficial, with stuff like:

"Where do you get AO wheels for the Harbor Freight carbide grinder?"

"How do I get the Enco Free Shipping code?"

"What's a good starter set of mill tooling?"

"Can anyone recommend a starter lathe?"

...

derekm
12-31-2008, 07:10 PM
Or ask about collets versus endmills. Or ER collets versus 5C :D
And always remember Flood coolant is for an HSM a Horrid Smelly Mess :D

lazlo
12-31-2008, 07:18 PM
And always remember Flood coolant is for an HSM a Horrid Smelly Mess :D

I heartily agree with that Derek, with one exception -- a horizontal bandsaw. I'm trading-up from a Jet 4x6, which I've always run dry, to a Wilton 7x12, which is a considerably larger saw. Most of my machining buddies/mentors have told me that using flood coolant on a bandsaw cuts a lot faster, cooler, and cleaner, and the blades last twice as long. The Wilton has the flood coolant skirt and drain plumbing, so it sure looks like I should be able to run it without getting it all over the shop.

I'm got two little kids, so I'm going to try a full synthetic, and if it's too messy, I'll just drain the sump...

oldtiffie
12-31-2008, 07:41 PM
There seems to be a lot of "dodging the issue" here - intentional or not. Any deviation from the OP is OT until the issues and intent of the OP-er have been fully addressed.

The OP is here:

I have noticed that the complete forum rules are not listed in a forum. Can Bulliss or another post and stickey them some we can know what is an is not OT< what rules for arguments are?

I pray to god for less than 10 replies here.

I can only assume that as there has not been - so far as I can see - any substantial addressing of the OP that:

1.
There are no changes required;

2.
The "Rules" are those that you "signed up to" when you applied for and were accepted by VP as a member of the HSM forum and subsequently the "Rules" ("Guide-lines"?) as published at the opening page of the forum - as I posted earlier.

So.

For the OP-er ("Teenage_Machinist"):
Are you satisfied with the answers to your specific questions in your OP? And if not, what else if there that you need to know?

Feel free to not answer here but to address them to George B by PM or email - as is your right. We do not have a right to know what you PM or email, unless you elect to tell us.

I hope you get a satisfactory answer and/or outcome.

lane
12-31-2008, 07:49 PM
I heartily agree with that Derek, with one exception -- a horizontal bandsaw. I'm trading-up from a Jet 4x6, which I've always run dry, to a Wilton 7x12, which is a considerably larger saw. Most of my machining buddies/mentors have told me that using flood coolant on a bandsaw cuts a lot faster, cooler, and cleaner, and the blades last twice as long. The Wilton has the flood coolant skirt and drain plumbing, so it sure looks like I should be able to run it without getting it all over the shop.

I'm got two little kids, so I'm going to try a full synthetic, and if it's too messy, I'll just drain the sump...

You will love the 7-12 that is what I got and I use coolant some times . any questions please ask.

MickeyD
12-31-2008, 08:10 PM
I think that the main rule us open and polite discussion, unless the other person is just flat wrong, then anything goes.

rockrat
12-31-2008, 08:10 PM
Did we pass 10 replies yet?
I think there was one about buying a new lathe and asking about which one here.
:D
I thought that I read a list when I signed up. Or was that the things to ask list?

dp
12-31-2008, 08:41 PM
There seems to be a lot of "dodging the issue" here - intentional or not. Any deviation from the OP is OT until the issues and intent of the OP-er have been fully addressed.

If we must be entirely literal then yes, I can answer the OP's question: Yes, the moderators can post rules.

That they have not done so speaks well of this group, generally.

John Stevenson
12-31-2008, 08:52 PM
If there was a no kissing George's arse rule, Tiffie would get multiple violations for that post

It would have been better with a Tiffiepedia link....................


.

lazlo
12-31-2008, 08:55 PM
It would have been better with a Tiffiepedia link....................

My pleasure John :)

a servile person who, acting in his or her own self interest, attempts to win favor by flattering one or more influential persons, with an undertone that these actions are executed at the cost of his or her own personal pride, principles, and peer respect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant)

Evan
12-31-2008, 08:57 PM
I think that the main rule us open and polite discussion, unless the other person is just flat wrong, then anything goes.


So if sombody is wrong you get to crucify them? Why?

Teenage_Machinist
12-31-2008, 09:03 PM
Well, the only ones that can be ascertained are:

1) Do not try to sell anything.
2) Threads that get too argumentative will be locked
3) Anything that is not related to machining must be marked OT. Anything totally unrelated to machining, mechanical stuff, manufacturing, craftsmanship, etc must be marked "Way OT". and posted in General



What prompted this was the recent insta-locking of the US splits as predicted by Russia guy. I AM NOT PROTESTING THAT LOCKING!

but I was intrigued because there were hardly any posts and that sort of thread is normally tolerated only to become locked in the end. Also GB posted and let somebody else post before locking.


Also, I kind of wonder what the IOwolf affair was. Before my time, I think, and search feature turns up arguments but not anything clearer. He was not banned, was he? Was that related to Torker's welding-adept friend who fled this forum or the person who's first post was an angry rant?


I do not remember very much of an agreement on the create account page, but I remember little of it.





So really I would ask , apart from common sense, common law, and precedent, what will result in instant thread locking, and what will result in banning, ect, and what will cause a thread to be locked eventually?

dp
12-31-2008, 09:14 PM
George has mentioned in the past that politics and religion are off limits. Even so he's pretty loose about snuffing a topic that wanders that way.

IOWolf is a person who speaks his mind (his words) and believes it is the reader's job to deal with it. George seemed to agree, and did.

Teenage_Machinist
12-31-2008, 09:22 PM
hmm as many, many threads have started pure politics and yet had many posts before locking that is odd.

So he was banned?

wierdscience
12-31-2008, 09:42 PM
#1 Don't advertise
#2 ANYTHING can become a flame war here.War,religion,politics,electrical theory,Morse tapers,fly swatters etc:D

Teenage_Machinist
12-31-2008, 09:49 PM
Never heard of morse tapers becoming a war.

Evan
12-31-2008, 09:49 PM
I have yet to see anything here that resembles a real flame war. A few abusive ad hominem statements don't constitute a flame war even if they should not be permitted.

Teenage_Machinist
12-31-2008, 09:51 PM
By the way, can anybody tell me what the IOWolf affair actually was

Evan
12-31-2008, 09:59 PM
He became miffed because he posted a political thread and George locked it. He took his ball and went home.

dp
12-31-2008, 10:04 PM
By the way, can anybody tell me what the IOWolf affair actually was

He's entertaining the troops over at PracticalMachinist now - seems to have kept the core tools that make him stand out.

dp
12-31-2008, 10:05 PM
I have yet to see anything here that resembles a real flame war. A few abusive ad hominem statements don't constitute a flame war even if they should not be permitted.

I think some of the ToolMan stuff came close.

wierdscience
12-31-2008, 10:07 PM
I have yet to see anything here that resembles a real flame war. A few abusive ad hominem statements don't constitute a flame war even if they should not be permitted.

Okay,Police action:)

There have been a few times where comments have become incendiary
which of course serves no purpose to anyone.

It's only that the majority members here are intelligent enough to ignore that sort of thing that it doesn't become worse.

2ManyHobbies
12-31-2008, 10:21 PM
And never, ever mention converting a radial arm saw to do surface grinding.

That is the next life for the floor buffer. Everybody knows it would be better to convert the RAS to a 5-axis CNC mill -- of course, you'll need to finish converting the drum-sander to a lathe first. :D

dp
12-31-2008, 10:24 PM
That is the next life for the floor buffer. Everybody knows it would be better to convert the RAS to a 5-axis CNC mill -- of course, you'll need to finish converting the drum-sander to a lathe first. :D

Has to wait until I finish converting my treadmill to a thickness sander.

wierdscience
12-31-2008, 10:32 PM
Has to wait until I finish converting my treadmill to a thickness sander.

Been watching Red Green re-runs again have we?:D

torker
12-31-2008, 10:36 PM
Way to go guys...you all forgot rule #6...
"Every three months someone must start a thread about round column mills"
Only thing I can't figure...is how come I have to do it all the time? :D

dp
12-31-2008, 10:39 PM
Been watching Red Green re-runs again have we?:D

You haven't seen my planishing hammer converted from my old tap dance shoes and an air chisel, eh.

Carld
12-31-2008, 10:39 PM
I put the link to the Russian predicting USA split on PM and this site knowing it would be locked. I found it amusing and remotely posible but interesting none the less. It was locked and then removed from PM. It is still here but locked and that is fine with me.

Common sense is the best guide to use when posting anywhere and after your on a site for a while you will know how far you can go.

lazlo
12-31-2008, 10:49 PM
What prompted this was the recent insta-locking of the US splits as predicted by Russia guy. I AM NOT PROTESTING THAT LOCKING!

I actually thought it was pretty funny -- George posted a reply to that thread, moments after it was posted, and then locked it :)

Seriously though, this isn't the place for geo-political discussion, and I'm as much to blame for that as anyone.

lazlo
12-31-2008, 10:52 PM
He became miffed because he posted a political thread and George locked it. He took his ball and went home.

Not to relieve that whole debacle, but several frequent posters replied with inappropriate responses to Torker's thread about his young female assistant, and George started locking the threads. One of Wolfie's threads got caught it in the net, and it stirred up all kinds of bad blood, and he left.

dp
12-31-2008, 10:54 PM
Not to relieve that whole debacle, but several frequent posters replied with inappropriate responses to Torker's thread about his young female assistant, and George started locking the threads. One of Wolfie's threads got caught it in the net, and it stirred up all kinds of bad blood, and he left.

That and he was a serial offender. He's not here to defend himself though so further discussion probably inappropriate.

dp
12-31-2008, 10:58 PM
I actually thought it was pretty funny -- George posted a reply to that thread, moments after it was posted, and then locked it :)

Seriously though, this isn't the place for geo-political discussion, and I'm as much to blame for that as anyone.

The really strung out threads are those pure esorotica posts so esoteric and arcane that nobody can understand them but we look anyway :)

lazlo
12-31-2008, 10:59 PM
He's not here to defend himself though so further discussion probably inappropriate.

I agree Dennis, but as you're probably aware, I like Wolfie :)

But I think it's important to clarify that his leaving had nothing to do with a political post. It was this thread, where he posted about a riser he made for his mill, but the top 10 threads that day were about "The Gurl", and his thread go caught up in that stupidity:

And now for a machining topic,I hope the Gurl don't mind. (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=29047)

oldtiffie
12-31-2008, 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by John Stevenson
It would have been better with a Tiffiepedia link....................


My pleasure John :)

a servile person who, acting in his or her own self interest, attempts to win favor by flattering one or more influential persons, with an undertone that these actions are executed at the cost of his or her own personal pride, principles, and peer respect. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant)

Well, well, at long long last.

Here I see you at last lazlo, and - out of your own "mouth" - "pleasuring" your self again too I see - (which is a good definition of a "Wanker") - and following at the heels of the "Big Kid(s)" (ie John S etc. who needed to follow no one) - no surprise there - and when "Sir" (George B) was "out of sight and ear-shot" too.

What a true hero.

Actually, reminds me of "My Hero" who was in fact a "Chocolate Soldier" (was known here in OZ as a "Chocco/Chockko"). He looked fine parading around in uniform - to the beat and music of his "betters" etc. but "melted" into "chocolate" as soon as the heat arrived!!! Probably explains the "Brown nose" too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Hero_(TV_series)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chocolate_Soldier

Just come around the front and stop snapping at my heels.

I won't trip over you as I will not be retreating.

Just don't trip over your tail.


Boo!!!

oldtiffie
12-31-2008, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie
There seems to be a lot of "dodging the issue" here - intentional or not. Any deviation from the OP is OT until the issues and intent of the OP-er have been fully addressed.


If we must be entirely literal then yes, I can answer the OP's question: Yes, the moderators can post rules.

That they have not done so speaks well of this group, generally.

Excellent precise summary Dennis.

Many thanks.

Optics Curmudgeon
12-31-2008, 11:24 PM
Anyone that thinks there has ever been a flame war here has no memory or knowledge of usenet. This place is as gentle as kindergarden by comparison.

Joe

MickeyD
12-31-2008, 11:59 PM
This is one place where Godwin's law does not seem to apply. For those who missed usenet, Godwin's law states that as a discussion goes longer (and more emotional) the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. I have yet to see any discussion here go that far, and that is a good thing.

lazlo
01-01-2009, 12:01 AM
Godwin's law states that as a discussion goes longer (and more emotional) the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. I have yet to see any discussion here go that far, and that is a good thing.

In Alistair's thread "congratulations on your new brilliant president (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=31452&highlight=Hitler)", someone compared Obama to Hitler. In a different thread, someone else compared him to the Anti-Christ, so we've got all our bases covered. :)

Optics Curmudgeon
01-01-2009, 12:21 AM
I stand corrected-ish. Missed that one.

Joe

tattoomike68
01-01-2009, 01:51 AM
I have noticed that the complete forum rules are not listed in a forum. Can Buliss or another post and stickey them some we can know what is an is not OT< what rules for arguments are?


I pray to god for less than 10 replies here.

nobody gives a f*ck, this site is run by retards.


who cares...

Evan
01-01-2009, 02:30 AM
One of Wolfie's threads got caught it in the net, and it stirred up all kinds of bad blood, and he left.


Robert, it all started with his "my president has died" thread. The thread you refer to was just the last straw. I haven't had any real arguments with him either and what he says doesn't bother me.

John Stevenson
01-01-2009, 06:50 AM
This is one place where Godwin's law does not seem to apply. For those who missed usenet, Godwin's law states that as a discussion goes longer (and more emotional) the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. I have yet to see any discussion here go that far, and that is a good thing.

SEIG HEIL :D



.

derekm
01-01-2009, 07:41 AM
SEIG HEIL :D



.

JA WOHL :D

Derek - Obermotorradfahrer zweiter klasse, Eisenkreuz-Gleiten, dritte Klasse

HSS
01-01-2009, 07:59 AM
Although it doesn't count as a flame war, when I first joined this group there was a discussion between Evan and another, whom I cannot remember, about aluminum tubing used on aircraft. That one got rather heated, and the other guy quit the forum, I think.:rolleyes:

Evan
01-01-2009, 08:58 AM
That guy was trolling. It wasn't about aluminum tubing on aircraft since that isn't done, it was about the use of 6061 as aircraft aluminum. It didn't start with him either. I commented that 6061 isn't "aircraft aluminum" and he showed up to argue otherwise. His arguments were basically "if I can find even one example of the use of 6061 anywhere in an aircraft that means that it is aircraft aluminum and the majority of aircraft are constructed with it".

Your Old Dog
01-01-2009, 09:34 AM
We've had a couple of guys here who thought they could say anything and puke it out in one-liners just because they were "plain spoken" men and needed no reason to worry about reprisals from "gentlemen" because they were hard-a$$ed and they didn't care if you liked it or not. (Anybody want to buy a punction mark?) Others here could make the same statements but without throwing gasoline in someones face. In other words, they helped make you a better person/machinist and not make you feel like a worthless piece of crap. I find blunt spoken people boring and wonder what problem they have that makes them want to fly in the face of all that is civil and/or polite. I don't have to like them for their blunt and obtuse attitudes.

I thought that one of the guys that was in fact banned sounded like he knew what he was talking about but his style just didn't fit the family that hangs out on this forum. Nearly every remark he made goaded before it informed or helped anyone. We were just forum punching bags for him to feel manly.

And as for the bit about kissing George's arse! I'll publicly kiss it. Thanks George for a great site, I really like it here and that you keep your sword hand out of it until the liberal boundary is reached.

Dawai
01-01-2009, 09:40 AM
What prompted this was the recent insta-locking of the US splits as predicted by Russia guy
So, when the states do split up, red versus blue? what happens then? Will Lincoln roll out of his grave and attack the south without law and justice on his side, again?
Lincoln actually said:
"Ohh don't you take them taxes away from me so easily, I do so love the revenue from each of the states". The new history books say it was started to free the poor black slaves. The old history books say it was over unfair taxation without representation and trade deficits.

Then, perhaps we may become the North American Union, easier to control with the resources split up.

AND mention hitler, get locked.. White people in Germany loved him.. he was great.. made many changes they liked and they supported him.. NEXT real big support for a politician was.. lemme see.. Ohhh Yeah.. Barack Obama.. the new messiah..

And That Wolfie.. ahh.. he gave the moderator a black eye publicly on forum after being warned.. did he listen to reason? no.. has he tried to sneak back and assault and raise havoc.. yes.. shame on you wolfie.. I liked him, thought I'd like to drink beer and barbeque with him.. antagonistic.. kinda like the guy who cooks the barbeque and laughs as the other bikers knife and roll in the mud, all the time thinking, gee, they'll leave all this meat and beer for me.. Sh_T stirring helps nobody.. it just stinks.

What upsets me the most.. no not any of the above.. but people who have several user names.. they keep one clean.. and stir the crap with another.. makes you want the ip address so you know who you are really dealing with, then the real smart guys, well they have ways around that too.. a Sh_t stirrer with a "long handle"... shame on you too..

EDIT: Who appreciates this forum and it's free range of topics.. well I do.. I've left a few times now.. changed my name once when a spitefull woman came out of my past and harrassed me to insanity.. but.. HERE.. people can discuss calmly and share ideas and plans.. and a few machining tips and techniques not quite normal as among friends.. some are afraid to post their ideas on other boards cause people MAKE FUN of them.. but most the time we are adults here..
I got more done in the shop when I was not on this and metalmeet's forum. Metalmeet has slowed for me.. my passion swings from shaping metal to making bits of whizzgidgetry..

There are regular members here I consider friends, thou I have not met most of you... There are some I consider inlaws. some I have no feelings good or bad.. none I hate.. here.. (there is a junkie-two time child molestor living down the road I could skin without remorse or guilt) I see him standing in front of the elementry school right next to the daycare stoned..

loose nut
01-01-2009, 10:23 AM
You guys have forgetten the most important rule of all.

Never Ever Ever Ever ask, "What's better Metric or Imperial".

lazlo
01-01-2009, 10:26 AM
...or ask why British lathes have flat ways, or why a Myford sells for more than a Hardinge HLV :)

Evan
01-01-2009, 10:32 AM
AND mention hitler, get locked.. White people in Germany loved him.. he was great.. made many changes they liked and they supported him.. NEXT real big support for a politician was.. lemme see.. Ohhh Yeah.. Barack Obama.. the new messiah..



Stop trying to rewrite history David. The average German was scared spitless of the Nazi Party and with good reason. The Jewish are White too.

You forget about Eisenhower, Kennedy, won by landslides. You have been making some pretty heavy sweeping generalizations lately. Some are way off base. You need to take a critical look at your own writing before posting it, maybe wait half an hour and read it again.

loose nut
01-01-2009, 10:36 AM
...or ask why British lathes have flat ways, or why a Myford sells for more than a Hardinge HLV :)


Flat ways have there uses but your right about the cost of a Myford. Maybe that's why they are in trouble.

A.K. Boomer
01-01-2009, 11:09 AM
It's funny, everyone has a different recollection about the jackal's demise, but to me it was the link below - where the jackal set the stage for a seen in what i believe was in his mind some kind of "showdown" to where he was going to "run the moderator out of town"... He put in the topic "So am I going to get an explanation" and then pretty much gave George an ultimatum, Yessirree boy -- it was either the jackal's way or the highway, there was only one flaw in his game plan - George was packing real heat and UBjackal found out that all he had was an empty squirt gun... :o


http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=29056

I believe this is one of the best self regulated sites iv been on, When I first posted here i didnt think so due to the above mentioned person, so I in turn dished it back and also got rude with others, I thought if thats the type of people that are allowed on this site then what the hell I'll throw in my own mix, I was wrong and let one bad apple manipulate me into being harsh and im sorry to the board for that, It is however why its so important to ban certain members, George B's got a nut sac, and he's salvaged many a good newbie in the process, I guess what it comes down to for members is if your willing to let the site change you (evolve a little) instead of trying to be the one to change the site.
Happy new year everyone --- this is a group of widely diverse guys with tons of know how and im proud to be a small part of it, thanks for the education and the opportunity to evolve a little...

Iv gone to having a great "dislike" for the jackal to genuinely hoping the best for him, he's obviously not well and I sincerely hope he gets a handle on it as we all have "issue's" --- first step for me was to realize that "de-nile" is more than just a sicilian trying to pronounce a river in africa:p

tdmidget
01-01-2009, 11:12 AM
Actually this site IS good for laffs. Unless you actually do think you can make surface grinder from a radial arm saw without melting the saw and casting a surface grinder.

torker
01-01-2009, 11:19 AM
Yup..Wolfie...you keep on sticking up for him..
I did. Looking back, I shouldn't have bothered.
He really stuck his foot in his mouth with his lovely "foreskin" comments that he made sure anyone...including the gurl could see. Like he was some kind of rockstar....when in fact..he was acting like some kind of pervert when it came to her.
What you DON'T know...after that he sent me a PM...falling all over the flap in his underwear...apologizing for his rude comments directed towards her...and could I smooth things over. Then..in the same PM he insulted me if I didn't like the whole thing.
He maybe shouldn'ta done that.
Ya...looking back...he was a real class act alright.
Russ

Teenage_Machinist
01-01-2009, 01:25 PM
Gah! I didn't come for an argument! If this dosent stop I'll ask Buliss to toss in a Helicoil.


So basically there still is no concrete ruleset other than politics is often not OK and that selling stuff is not allowed.


And "iowolf" was rude and sexist to "The Gurl" who is an assistant to welder Torker in Real Life, and caused arguments, and left,

PTSideshow
01-01-2009, 01:26 PM
As somebody that was in the middle of the incident, I will remind people that having known that Wolfie and I had real people contacts in common. Having received numerous E mails and PMs about his posting from people with children or grand children that read this board. And the people that know him, due to the internet filter of impersonality. He is not the person he came across as in the postings. If his wife knew his actions on the net she would be mortified and probably beat him over the head and shoulders with his computer.

As been said he would have his user name and others to stir the pot if nobody else would. Along with a couple of cohorts keeping him in the loop.

Like Torker said the comments about the gurl and other things, along with the picture he or his sidekick posted.
were not appropriate for this forum.

And as Boomer mentioned, To put it simply you don't call the man holding the biggest hammer out if your holding a rubber mallet! And not except him to drop it on you at least once.

What a lot seem to forget is this forum is run by a for profit company, that publishes magazines on the subject matter of this and its other forums. The number of people that use this forum is larger than then the number that subscribe to the magazines and use this forum.

With just the normal operating problems and upgrades etc they could save a bunch of money and headaches with out the web sites/forums.

But as this thread has shown, the moderation on this board is of the light handed type. Or has been stated self regulating to a large extent.

If you need some general rules on how to behave, here is as simple and clear as any. They are form the notice page at



When I started this forum it was with the intention of maintaining a place
free of derogatory comments, flaming, personal attacks and elitism.
Posts that include such comments will be responded to immediately by
a member of the management team. If that is not enough to make the
point, further action will be taken.

We all have a bad day once in a while. We all lose temper and say or type
something we shouldn't have. That's normal human nature!
Should that happen to be "just your style" there are several other home
machining forums that will suit you much better.

THIS forum is about building running model engines.
Beginner or expert, all posts and replies will be civil and without condemnation.
It will be a forum where no member will be afraid to post
or ask a question for fear of being called down.

If obtaining that goal requires us to block or delete an offending member
that action will be taken.

I regret having to put this into text, but the need is obvious.


Have a great new year! and remember the internet isn't real, the doctor said its all in my imagination :D

torker
01-01-2009, 01:44 PM
Gah! I didn't come for an argument! If this dosent stop I'll ask Buliss to toss in a Helicoil.


So basically there still is no concrete ruleset other than politics is often not OK and that selling stuff is not allowed.


And "iowolf" was rude and sexist to "The Gurl" who is an assistant to welder Torker in Real Life, and caused arguments, and left,
Yabut...you asked....now you are getting filled in on how things go around here.
In short...the place is largely self moderated. Compared to other boards...George has a pretty easy time of it here.

dp
01-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Gah! I didn't come for an argument! If this dosent stop I'll ask Buliss to toss in a Helicoil.

Just so you know - you (and all of us) are only thread starters, not the thread owner. Where they go once started is anyone's guess. Asserting ownership leads to a whole nuther set of social dynamics.

lazlo
01-01-2009, 03:03 PM
In short...the place is largely self moderated. Compared to other boards...George has a pretty easy time of it here.

Geez, I don't know Russ -- I think this board may have had something to do with Neil retiring early :)
I wonder if George knew what he was getting into when he took this part of the job (forum moderation)?


And as for the bit about kissing George's arse! I'll publicly kiss it. Thanks George for a great site, I really like it here and that you keep your sword hand out of it until the liberal boundary is reached.

That's not a$s kissing, that's genuine gratitude, and I agree -- I appreciate George for putting up with all the crap here, and putting out the occasional fire. Is it just me, or has the signal to noise ratio improved a great deal since Election Day? :)

dp
01-01-2009, 03:39 PM
Is it just me, or has the signal to noise ratio improved a great deal since Election Day? :)

Yah, but we're between Harbor Freight grinder threads. It's coming.

Paul Alciatore
01-01-2009, 04:08 PM
Here is what I have gathered from years of participation here.

Number one, there are no posted rules. Or, if there are, they are lost in the early posts and all my efforts to find any via the archives or the search function are to no avail.

Number two, this forum is sponsored by Village Press which is a commercial venture and depends on advertising for it's existence. They pay the bills and that money comes from the advertising in their magazines. So, as I understand it, they are opposed to any advertising that would conflict with that. This is completely understandable. I have seen some posts which pushed at this limit a bit and were tolerated so they are a little flexible here, but not a lot. We should all understand this and support them in it. A house divided can not stand.

Number three, even though this is a home shop machining forum, off topic posts are permitted and should be marked "OT". Some subjects, like politics and religion, are less tolerated than others. This is probably because they are more likely to generate ill feelings. Flaming, as it is called, is not good manners either here or in person and should be avoided.

Finally, on the subject of "flaming", posts that get too heated are locked by the moderators. This also is good as it will help to prevent ill will. Play nice with others and all that.

I like this forum and the way it is handled. It is like a "water cooler" for home shop types. You can discuss machining problems and get good answers. You can discuss other things that interest you and get answers, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I don't know if we actually need real, written rules as it seems to have worked well up to now. I don't envy George if he is trying to write some as it could be a real difficult job. I do kind of like the old answer that I first heard in the 50s or 60s when it was applied to the struggle for a legal definition of pornography, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it". I think we all understand what is bad behavior here when we see it.

If you have a question about posting some particular subject, you could send George a message. I would not make a habit of this as I am sure he is quite busy. In the past when I had questionable topics, I simply did not post them here. There are other boards where they can be posted and I used them. In many cases, many of the members here are there also so it worked quite well. The Practical Machinist board is one such and it even has a forum for commercial posts if that is what you want to do. I am sure there are others that are also tolerant of this.

Your Old Dog
01-01-2009, 04:19 PM
Gah! I didn't come for an argument! If this dosent stop I'll ask Buliss to toss in a Helicoil.


So basically there still is no concrete ruleset other than politics is often not OK and that selling stuff is not allowed.


And "iowolf" was rude and sexist to "The Gurl" who is an assistant to welder Torker in Real Life, and caused arguments, and left,

Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but let me try to explain it this way.

Look kid, ................................. the men are talking here! Some are making good points and some like myself are likely making fools of themselves. You needn't feel responcible that the thread you started has veered of course to a road you feel is wrong. In the end it will all work out.

BTW, nice to see some young blood in the board. I for one admire and am a bit envious of the energy you young guys have. That includes the Everready Wabbit, Evan :D

TECHSHOP
01-01-2009, 07:23 PM
I have been away from here for several months, and I am glad to learn that not much has changed.

Hope to read and post more in 2009.

Welcome to all the new members who joined while I was off line in the "real world".

PS. I ain't IOWOLF.
PPS. I ain't millman.

.RC.
01-01-2009, 07:48 PM
A couple of years ago this forum was a bastard of a place, newbies were jumped on if they asked a silly question...I saw more then one new member chased away..

Today it has changed quite a bit and is quite a pleasant forum to visit...

Teenage_Machinist
01-01-2009, 08:25 PM
Helicoil: REALLY afraid that this was turning into an IOWOLF battle, read some stuff that happened more recently and made sense of it with your help, was asking about the rules not him.


I am still hoping Buliss will at least read this, It's a matter of knowing when something is considered "auto lock", what other than obvious trolling or against-the-law ness will cause banning or warning. Moreover, I do not know of a post, and so some people end up selling things without knowing it is against rules, (even though it is on the bottom), ect

oldtiffie
01-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Helicoil: REALLY afraid that this was turning into an IOWOLF battle, read some stuff that happened more recently and made sense of it with your help, was asking about the rules not him.

I am still hoping Buliss will at least read this, It's a matter of knowing when something is considered "auto lock", what other than obvious trolling or against-the-law ness will cause banning or warning. Moreover, I do not know of a post, and so some people end up selling things without knowing it is against rules, (even though it is on the bottom), ect

Well Teenage_Machinist,

I am glad you posted your OP to start this thread as it has raised some very pertinent issues.

Never the less, if you read the "Rules" as posted for the "General" forum, you should find them quite "broad" and if used and/or interpreted correctly are very flexible if we self-regulate ourselves and stay within fairly broad limits:



General (***Viewing)
This forum reserved for your comments and discussion about anything pertaining to our magazines or machining and metalworking in general. It's a place for feedback, idea exchange, criticism, kudos, sharing your expertise, your hobby or virtually anything else that other home shop machinists would be interested in. I will be monitoring it on a regular basis and will participate as it seems appropriate. However, for the most part, it's your forum. I hope you will use it regularly.

This seems to say just about all of it:

It's a place for feedback, idea exchange, criticism, kudos, sharing your expertise, your hobby or virtually anything else that other home shop machinists would be interested in.

That seems to be saying that just about anything can be discussed - but as George B said after the "Gurl" incident - politics and religion are either out or are to be constrained - seems very reasonable to me.

This seems to say that if all is OK an occasional overview without any action is expected to be the case but if the "axe" is needed to be swung - it will be. It also pretty well says that it is entirely and solely within the authority that any of the Moderators have, but it is mainly the responsibility of George Bulliss.


I will be monitoring it on a regular basis and will participate as it seems appropriate.
That is the classic "Iron fist in velvet glove" method or approach.

This seems to say that almost anything is OK providing we self-regulate and do the "right thing" individually and collectively.

However, for the most part, it's your forum. I hope you will use it regularly.

I think its no accident that the "General" Forum is so well patronised as it does cover most of what the other fora seem to have been meant to address.

.RC.
01-05-2009, 05:55 PM
Some posted rules would be handy, in light of the fact my Gaza thread got locked without an explanation, even though the only bitching in it was directed towards me.. Maybe I should have made it HSM friendly and asked what machines are Hamas using to make rockets in their home shops...

PHiers
01-05-2009, 07:11 PM
Stop trying to rewrite history David. The average German was scared spitless of the Nazi Party and with good reason. The Jewish are White too.

You forget about Eisenhower, Kennedy, won by landslides. You have been making some pretty heavy sweeping generalizations lately. Some are way off base. You need to take a critical look at your own writing before posting it, maybe wait half an hour and read it again.

Evan you are right on Eisenhower, wrong on JFK. 1960 was at that time the closest race ever, came down to,of all states, Illinois! Other landslides were Nixon and Regan. JFK was my first vote,,,,,dang I am getting old.

George Bulliss
01-05-2009, 10:01 PM
Just now saw this thread, so sorry for the late reply. I was away for five days and only checked in for a total of about ten minutes in that time. I know that there are plenty of things that could, and probably should, be done different but the reality is that I canít spend as much time in this forum as I would like and have chosen the hands off approach partially out of need.

That said, there are a few things I have been planning on doing but keep putting off. One of them is to revisit the rules. After some of the previous problems, I had plenty of good suggestions about what to include in a new list of rules. I am still considering posting some updated rules but am now leaning towards some rather general guidelines.

The major concern I have with setting some new laws to live by is the fact that I am not around enough to enforce them in a consistent manner. If I lock someone for an infraction, I run the risk of starting up a storm because I just let ten people slide for the same thing. Rules without a consistent and fair enforcement arenít going to help anyone.

So, hopefully after Cabin Fever I will get around to taking care of a few loose ends. I am also planning on adding a CNC forum and a Gunsmithing forum. I know that the General forum will likely continue to be the most popular but I think having a few extras will help to keep some of the threads from getting buried so quickly and make searches a little easier.

I am also thinking of combining the Networking and Third Hand forums. I want to place a sticky or two at the start of this forum that would contain links to threads to answer all those questions that get brought up again and again. Iím open to suggestions (did I just say that) but remember, I move slowly and will not have any time until I get caught up after Cabin Fever.

On a more important note, we finally had a break in the weather long enough to find a tow truck that wasnít busy and I was able to get the lathe off of my trailer. Just waiting on a vfd for it now.

George

mlucek
01-06-2009, 03:15 PM
George - Thanks for your reply.

One very simple suggestion for organzing fora a bit here, and this has been suggested when you 1st took over as editor - is to create another forum for O.T. posts. That's a very simple addition to create in vBulletin (literally a few minutes). That alone should clean up the General forum quite a bit.

Also think about appointing some forum moderators to help you with the task of dealing with the messages here.

Mike