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.RC.
01-04-2009, 10:29 PM
Seems to be in the news lately about the Israel retaliation to Hamas in Gaza firing rockets into Israel...

Just wondering does anyone really care any more..These mobs have been fighting over a patch of desert for what seems like an eternity...We should just build a fence around the place and let them sort it out themselves...

Al Messer
01-04-2009, 10:34 PM
If we do, the IDF will "clean house" in fairly short order.

IdahoJim
01-04-2009, 10:53 PM
It always amazes me...there is no media outcry when the Hamas rockets go into Israel, killing and wounding at random. But let the Israelis fight back and the world is outraged. What's up with that?
Jim

BillH
01-04-2009, 11:32 PM
Israel should clean house and take over all of gaza for their own.
It still is a Machiavellian world even if "feel gooders" seam to be running the world right now. Machiavelli is more of a law of human nature than anything else, love it or hate it, it is reality.
Of course if they would just get along... Will never happen. One side needs to wipe out the other.

barts
01-05-2009, 12:00 AM
It always amazes me...there is no media outcry when the Hamas rockets go into Israel, killing and wounding at random. But let the Israelis fight back and the world is outraged. What's up with that?
Jim

I think there's ample dismay at the behavior of both sides. Neither Israel nor Hamas is blameless in this and both use the barbarities of the other to justify further atrocities. The current US government tends to back Israel almost unconditionally and sees to it that no Security Council resolutions are passed; much of the rest of the world sees the 100:1 casualty ratio and feels that the Israelis are using the pretext of the rocket attacks to rearrange the political and military situation more to their liking, using the rocket attacks as a pretext.

Until the Palestinians have a homeland and self-determination, there will be no peace in the Middle East, I'm afraid. Israel will have to rein in their true believers, and stop building settlements in occupied territory. Jerusalem, a city sacred to many faiths, will need to be shared amongst them... and the Palestinians will need to lay down their arms as will the Israelis. All sides in this conflict have organizations whose existence is predicated on the conflict continuing, sigh...

Like I said, it's going to be a while.



Of course if they would just get along... Will never happen. One side needs to wipe out the other.


That would be disastrous, both for the loser and the victor.

- Bart

Fasttrack
01-05-2009, 12:19 AM
It always amazes me...there is no media outcry when the Hamas rockets go into Israel, killing and wounding at random. But let the Israelis fight back and the world is outraged. What's up with that?
Jim


Thats because Israel always stomps their opponents. Its like a fully trained marine fighting a 5th grade bully. :D 'Course the bully picked the fight so...

I don't mean to make light of the situation and I don't want to get flamed for my political views, so I think I'll just shut up now :)

BillH
01-05-2009, 12:23 AM
That would be disastrous, both for the loser and the victor.

- Bart
Only in the minds of people. If a squirrel does not like another squirrel, does he plead to other squirrels for help? NO, he bites the nuts off the other squirrel so he can't reproduce and the other squirrels don't care.
If one squirrel was to launch rockets onto another squirrels territory in Florida, the squirrels in Georgia could care less. They could also care less if the squirrels whom the rockets landed upon simply said screw it and killed every single other squirrel off until the rivers turned red with squirrel blood until there were no more hostilities.
SO why does anyone care if one side wipes out the other? Because people are screwed up in the head.
The Arab world does not care about Palestinians, otherwise they would take them in. They simply use them for their own agenda, to hate Israel.

gellfex
01-05-2009, 12:27 AM
Until the Palestinians have a homeland and self-determination, there will be no peace in the Middle East, I'm afraid. Israel will have to rein in their true believers, and stop building settlements in occupied territory.
- Bart

Yet, when the Israelis commendably unilaterally left Gaza, pulling out their insane settlements there, and leaving the Gazans to build a state of their own, their top priority was sending rockets into Israel. Had they pursued peace and prosperity rather than pulling Israel's tail they would be commuting to the relatively well paying jobs in Israel that Gazan's used to have, and trading with them, and building a future, rather than destroying it. I don't know how anyone can be sympathetic to men who fire rockets from their neighbors homes in the hope of drawing fire that will kill children so they make the world headlines.

andy_b
01-05-2009, 12:51 AM
Only in the minds of people. If a squirrel does not like another squirrel, does he plead to other squirrels for help? NO, he bites the nuts off the other squirrel so he can't reproduce and the other squirrels don't care.
If one squirrel was to launch rockets onto another squirrels territory in Florida, the squirrels in Georgia could care less. They could also care less if the squirrels whom the rockets landed upon simply said screw it and killed every single other squirrel off until the rivers turned red with squirrel blood until there were no more hostilities.
SO why does anyone care if one side wipes out the other? Because people are screwed up in the head.


i like that analogy. sadly, it will only end when one of the groups are all dead. of course, then that group will find another group to hate, or another group will hate them for some reason.

andy b.

BillH
01-05-2009, 01:12 AM
i like that analogy. sadly, it will only end when one of the groups are all dead. of course, then that group will find another group to hate, or another group will hate them for some reason.

andy b.
Life goes on! Nothing you can do about, human nature is Machiavellian.

tony ennis
01-05-2009, 01:32 AM
Probably should be noted that the Hamas terrorist group is making rockets (in their metal shops...) and shooting them into Israel. The Palestinians aren't doing it.

Ths won't end until the Arabs take Hamas down. It just makes victims of the Palestinians when Israel retaliates. Which is Hamas' goal.

oldtiffie
01-05-2009, 02:21 AM
Ringer, this is twice in two or three days that you have been "stirring" - ie. "taking the pi$$" - previous
starting at:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showpost.php?p=406167&postcount=12

- and "$hit-stirring" with your OP - this time.



How do I measure holes??? Not very easily when you want it measured accurately....

I generally use a set of mitutoyo telescopic gauges and can try to get to 0.01mm but lets be realistic here, when someone comes along and says they can measure a bore to microns in a general workshop they are talking out their arse...The smallest temperature change will totally stuff up any measurement they have...Take yesterday for example...I was machining down some steel using carbide and when I finished it was over 100C..I measured it and then measured it when it was room temperature...The difference was in the order of 0.1mm..

Sorry but it irks me when people make outlandish claims about what they can measure...(or when their radial arm saw come surface grinder can hold tolerances of 0.0000001mm) :D



Originally Posted by Ringer
Sorry but it irks me when people make outlandish claims about what they can measure...(or when their radial arm saw come surface grinder can hold tolerances of 0.0000001mm)


I made no such claim of tolerances regarding my grinder - I said it suited me for the purpose. If that purpose was a tolerance of 0.125 that is a figger I'll take to my grave :)

It does much better than that, though, and produces a nice flat finish I can't achieve with any of my other tools.


heh heh don't worry I was only taking the piss with the radial arm saw statement... :)

This thread is both political and religious and had/has bugger all to do with machining or HSM-ing - and I expect that you know it.

That in itself is as provocative and unwelcome as are some who just "jump in" to contentious subjects.

The "dick-slapping" and "bearings" hi-jack of Evan's "lathe spindle" thread was bad enough and I'd suggest that we can well do without another similarly polarised thread here.

If you want to see what a war is like, join the Australian Army and go to Afghanistan - as they are looking for volunteers. That way you may well whet and sate your appetite - as well wet and $hit your knickers.

Otherwise get on to a dedicated forum for this sort of topic and just use this forum for HSM-ers and HSM-ing.

chief
01-05-2009, 04:50 AM
Tiffie,
If you don't like the post, don't read it. The title is pretty self-explantory.
You remind me of HAMAS with your attitude.

Your Old Dog
01-05-2009, 07:53 AM
Where conflict is concerned tit for tat don't work. You save more lives by sending a bag of tat over the fence and getting it over with.

Not only that, the media prolongs the conflict by taking sides. The underdog thinks he has hope for a win because the world media is in his corner. Ever note how these attacks dwindle when some other big story is on the front pages?

Bguns
01-05-2009, 08:00 AM
Yup, looks Machinery Related or Semi Related to me..

NOT..

John Stevenson
01-05-2009, 08:06 AM
Do the Israeli's use a Hamas to preload their bearings ?

.

macona
01-05-2009, 08:22 AM
No, but they do use them to lubricate tank treads.

torker
01-05-2009, 08:37 AM
Probably should be noted that the Hamas terrorist group is making rockets (in their metal shops...)
tiffie...this IS shop related :D
John...you can come help me clean cornflakes out of my keyboard :D
This is a "coffee time" subject...no?
I'm actually glad ringer asked. I find the whole middle eastern mess very perplexing and like to read about it or watch documentries about it.
I still can't understand how they can kill their own people so easily.
The whole bloody works of them do it over there....blow up 50 or 100 of their own in "hopes" of getting one or two of whoever they are mad at at the time.
The thing that gets me...so many of them move over here and to the US...they live amongst "infedels" every day...and it's ok.
But send them back home...Oh My...nope they can't do it then...
They just gotta keep flicking the mean dogs ear til he gets mad and bites them.
Russ

Mcgyver
01-05-2009, 08:56 AM
Machiavelli is more of a law of human nature than anything else

Machiavelli was a man, an author, who analyzed and described how leaders got and held power. while his work was brilliant and considered one of the all time great writings, its a disservice to call an 'end justifies the means' situation Machiavellian as he didn't advocate the ruthless behaviour, but merely the analysis and observation described it.

In the middle east, the poster that said they've been fighting for 2000 years is correct. If we want peace and prosperity in our part of the world, the best thing we can do is get the heck out and stop picking (and nurturing) a dog in that fight. I believe they will be fighting there for eternity, so why allow our society to be dragged down with it? imo the continued support for Israel is probably the reasons why a billion Muslims hate us and that just won't have a happy ending - being "Machiavellian" in the common use the expression would be just get the heck out and stop supporting any of them...being that the end we want is stopping our young men dieing, stopping the economic folly from the military action and to stop the western world from being the lightening rod to the Muslims.

Add to that that all of those groups are sooo racists in that inclusion is based on religion or race, that all of them deserve condemnation not support. Just buy the bloody oil and leave them all to sort their own mess out.

anyway, more importantly this thread doesn't belong and probably should be deleted. this is a machining forum and no good comes from these politically charged topics (i probably shouldn't have bothered writing anything but couldn't help myself ):p