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Teenage_Machinist
01-12-2009, 12:16 AM
Has anybody seen instructions on making your own indicator holder-the kind with one knob and the jointed arm?

Carld
01-12-2009, 12:26 AM
Are you talking about the Indicol type? I made one years ago out of aluminum but I didn't use a drawing. I just made it to fit the spindle nose and look somewhat like a store bought one a friend had.

Dawai
01-12-2009, 12:32 AM
No but if we size it up it might just hold the stereo microscope I am putting together..

I thought about taking small rod ends and drilling tapping them for setscrews, adding in friction discs.. OLD 40s ford tie rods had a adjustment in them.(about 7/8"). you could wash the grease out and tighten them up to hold near anything in place.

Drill rod? the mag holders are normally about $5 from HF at times.. I do have some better than others.. I dislike the micro adjustment feature. Using them to true harley wheels here. I see them as expendable.. they get knocked around as careful as I try to be.

HSS
01-12-2009, 09:44 AM
Hey TM,
I use this indicator holder quite often. My young bride made it at work and gave it to me.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii285/goochiepepper/72%20inch%20grinder/P1010003.jpg
It is very handy. Ths is the only picture I have of it, tho.

Patrick

Teenage_Machinist
01-12-2009, 11:34 PM
No, not an indicol type.....

I mean this type.


http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.2029.jpg


I bought a magnetic base with fine adjust, one verticall and one swivil arm, and I HATE it. Plus it does not have a dovetail holder for my Bestest.


So I was wondering if I could make this type. Seemed like a good project but no plans available.

BillH
01-12-2009, 11:45 PM
sometimes whipping one out of your butt works just fine!

dp
01-13-2009, 12:04 AM
As I recall Evan made some ball and sockets for one of his camera projects. Ok - found it. Not sockets though. http://vts.bc.ca/metalshop/misc/misc.htm and scroll down a bit.

When I was in Victoria, BC last spring I bought a monopod (one legged tripod) for my camera, and a ball and socket threaded for the camera base. It was all aluminum construction and had a heck of a time with galling and uneven operation. Perhaps steel and aluminum couplings would work better. I lost it last summer in Oregon during Forrest's scraping class and while I would like the monopod back I really don't miss that universal ball mount :)

danlb
01-13-2009, 12:59 AM
I've been trying to figure out how the works. I can imagine a wire connecting both pivot balls and wrapped around the shaft of the knob. I can also imagine a hydraulic setup that forces a piston outward against the pivot balls when the knob screws in to compress a fluid.

I guess some research is in order.

Dan

Carld
01-13-2009, 01:07 AM
Those type are hydralic. I don't think it would be easy to make one but not imposible. I have one and I like it better than any other of the beam mag base holders I have had. The flexible one with a cable up the center didn't last long. The cable broke. This one will work untill it starts leaking and then I will try to repair it and at that time find out just how it is made.

BUT, not untill it fails. When it fails I will buy another and tear this one apart.

BadDog
01-13-2009, 02:15 AM
Hydraulic? You talking about the mag holders like pictured? I've got a few; 2 Noga and 2 Imports in different sizes. All use the same arrangement, and it's quite simple. It's based on the ramp/wedge mechanism. There is a rod in each "arm". The rod has a flat end at the ball, and simply locks it in the socket with friction when the rod is forced outward. The other end of the rod is a roughly 45* ramp. In the joint with the handle, there is one spacer in the center, and 2 spacers on the outside (one incorporates the bolt). The outside spacers have a 45* ramp on one side, and that ramp mates with the ramp on the pin. Bolt goes through all 3 and the hand wheel contains a nut. Tighten it down, the ramp spacers push on the ramp end of the rods, which are loaded in compression due to the larger arms having a moderately (but not very) fitted hole for the rod (so it can't bend). Simple as that...

dp
01-13-2009, 02:34 AM
Thought of some self-help examples. The ball mounts are not at all different than the mechanism found in the shower head in your home. Pull one off and have a look - really that simple.

Turning those ball-ends is well demonstrated in the recently frustrated Dividedhead's videos on YouTube. The arms in your image are just two ball end handles, the joint where they come together being milled flat to form a smooth surface. They are then drilled and a machine screw with knob and nut are attached, or the ball opposite the knob is drilled and threaded. A spacer could be placed between the flats so the ends don't collide in tight situations.

To see more about turning those ball end handles look at a good Quorn page such as http://www.modelenginenews.org/meng/quorn/quorn.html

SVS
01-13-2009, 04:24 AM
I think you could flip hamburgers instead and earn a Noga quicker than you could make one. It would be worth it though. I loooove mine. A lot. Really. Really really. Seriously.

BadDog's description makes sense, I've had the idea they were hydraulic but I'm in a twelve step program on not taking things that work apart.

John Stevenson
01-13-2009, 07:53 AM
I think you could flip hamburgers instead and earn a Noga quicker than you could make one. It would be worth it though. I loooove mine. A lot. Really. Really really. Seriously.

BadDog's description makes sense, I've had the idea they were hydraulic but I'm in a twelve step program on not taking things that work apart.

That is very true but after flipping 6 hamburgers you are skilled.
What skills and further advancement is learnt even making something that is simple.
T_M is 15 years old I believe and contrary to popular opinion you are not born with skills or in BillH's case born with one up your arse.

Full marks to Baddog for giving him something to work on.

.

Circlip
01-13-2009, 08:50 AM
In a different life, an Arty Farty Fancy Picture Drawer (Industrial Designer) where we both worked used to bring new products to me to have a look at. After the first couple of times of "Very pretty, where's the screwdriver" he used to bring a toolkit without asking. The "Why" is acceptance, the "How" is the learning bit, and getting the bugger back together STILL working is the clever bit.

Regards Ian.

And although at times T-M's questions may be APITA, at least he's trying to find a way to make bits instead of garnishing the big selling houses dinner tables.

Andrew_D
01-13-2009, 08:59 AM
I mean this type.


http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Products/Images/480/480.2029.jpg

So I was wondering if I could make this type. Seemed like a good project but no plans available.

LMS had some rusty ones that they were selling, complete with instructions for taking them apart, pics and all. I'll go see if I can find the link...

Here it is:
http://littlemachineshop.com/instructions/RustyMagBase.pdf

This may give you some ideas...

Andrew

Carld
01-13-2009, 09:57 AM
:eek: my my, oh my, I was told they are hydralic and just accepted it at face value. Well, I don't have to worry about it leaking the fluid off any longer. Andrew, thanks for the link.

One thing for sure, they sure do work nice and I have a cheap knock off version.

daryl bane
01-13-2009, 10:18 AM
I don't think you should be limited as to size or application. I have often thought of making a big one of those as a nifty tool tray holder, collet tray holder, etc, etc. Could be a great project.

barts
01-13-2009, 12:16 PM
There's also Lautard's sleeve clamp plans:

http://lautard.com/sleeve.htm

This would be a little simpler to get right, and this sort of indicator holder
seems to be more flexible since the arm lengths can change.

- Bart

Teenage_Machinist
01-13-2009, 07:52 PM
Hmmm....


Here is it from the LMS picture but I cannot understand it beyond the idea that the slopes force the rods outward.


I would likely anneal ball bearings for the parts.


http://ikrase.googlepages.com/magbasdissasemble.jpg

BillH
01-13-2009, 08:05 PM
That is very true but after flipping 6 hamburgers you are skilled.
What skills and further advancement is learnt even making something that is simple.
T_M is 15 years old I believe and contrary to popular opinion you are not born with skills or in BillH's case born with one up your arse.

Full marks to Baddog for giving him something to work on.

.
Some people are born with something up their arse.

Teenage_Machinist
01-13-2009, 08:09 PM
Umm, what's that mean?

dp
01-13-2009, 08:27 PM
Umm, what's that mean?
More bickering - not directed at you.

The design is simple enough and well within your skill set to reproduce. All that's needed is a better picture of the bits, particularly the cylinder with the wedges on it. When the screw is snugged down that cylinder is forced against the angle faces of the rods which forces them against the ball ends which pinches them against the snaprings. All the joints tighten down at the same time.

And there's more than one way to do it.

BillH
01-13-2009, 09:29 PM
Yeh, sorry, for what ever reason at the moment I am a moody bitch. Must be too many ****ing airplanes and not enough free time to do what I want.

dp
01-13-2009, 09:52 PM
Yeh, sorry, for what ever reason at the moment I am a moody bitch. Must be too many ****ing airplanes and not enough free time to do what I want.

With the weather being what it is you're probably getting in a lot of IFR over cloud tops - very boring. Break up the monotony and barrel roll an L-1011 :)

Circlip
01-14-2009, 03:52 AM
There are ramps on two cylinders, the one nearest the locking nut, which has a clearance hole in it for the screwed rod to pass through and the cylinder fixed to the screwed rod. when assembled the bores in the two chrome arms are not in line with each other so the clamping rods can't share the same clamping ramps.

Regards Ian.

Your Old Dog
01-14-2009, 06:26 AM
You might try just buying one of the cheap ones and hand finishing it. Thats what I did. Consider them like kits! Several cheap tools can be given a bit of hand refinishing and made into nice tools with good feel.

SVS
01-14-2009, 07:09 AM
Broke my resolution and took mine apart-It will be a serious project to duplicate one.

Good learning experience-Yes. Make any economic sense-No, but thats never stopped a hobbiest before. (If I made one I'd estimate 15hrs, $20 materials and that $80 dollar stand suddenly cost me $500-$800)

I don't say this to stifle or discourage T M. Properly executed this would be an impressive display.

Consider "Tooling Balls" rather than ball bearings-nice threaded stem is already attached. There is probably a way to use threaded sleeves on the OD of the arms to clamp the joints. May give up the single knob locking feature, but make for a simpler build.

Teenage_Machinist
01-14-2009, 11:23 PM
I already have the magbase. Also small rods and things are easy and I just got a material windfall from Christmas. It's one less thing to take money away from my "saving up for a better mill" fund.

Would you mind sending me a close up of the components of the central section? I understand how they work, but not what they look like.

Carld
01-14-2009, 11:57 PM
While it is interesting and a learning experience to make some tools, your time may be better spent by buying or downloading an engine design and making the engine. To do that you would have to overcome many difficult setups and the chalange would widen your skills and understanding of how to approach a job so as to NOT machine yourself into a corner and have to make another part.

There is nothing like making a part and discovering half way through that you have machined it to the point you can't do the next step.

Machining a casting can be a real chalange as can a crank or cam, not to mention an overhead valve head.

Bguns
01-15-2009, 12:34 AM
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/m37b1/snow28103.jpg

The upper 2 parts have a Ramp on only 1 Side, Which engage The Pins..

They fit in the Holes and with Ramp, only go in about half the depth of the Hole before Ramp hits Pin.

There is a Spacer In between both arms. (The Small Round part in center.)

Part to Right Is Knob

Part to Upper Left Passes thru all, Is threaded for Knob, and Has Ramp as mentioned above.

Just A Cheap Grizzly H7991 which comes with a ~.0005 Indicator... :)

If you Anneal and Braze on Balls for Big Ends, it would save some work...

No Reason to make Big ends Round, could be machined From a Piece of Rectangular Stock and work just fine....

Circlip
01-15-2009, 03:48 AM
Hey T_M, thats a good idea, don't bother trying to make something that's going to be used for a lot of future setups, if you really want an engine download to start with I can send a design from this side of the pond. This one would keep Carld extatic, it would test your setting up skills for eccentric turning, hardening and tempering, overhead valve machining, cam milling. Oh, I forgot, you dont have a miller yet and I don't know how you're going to set shafts running true in a four jaw, so perhaps a vee eight four stroke should come a bit later down the road??
There used to be a saying about walking and running,can't quite remember all the words.

Regards Ian.

Carld
01-15-2009, 10:26 AM
Well, he sure would have to start with a single cyl. and I have a single cyl diesel plan made from stock material, no castings. It is water cooled for a small boat.

For the past 30 or so years I have been collecting drawings of stuff I like and plan to build. It seems I never have the time to do them :mad: . so much to do and so little time, even while retired.

Uhh, is that V8 engine plans a download? Do you suppose I could get them?

I just bought a set of plans for a 4cyl inline aircooled overhead valve engine from LittleMachineShop.

Teenage_Machinist
01-15-2009, 10:51 PM
WTF actually I do have a miller and I can set shafts true in a 4 jaw.


Are the "ramp" surfaces on the round joint parts cones?

I can see how it then would push the rods but how does it get the middle? Just sideways pressure on the rods?
What exactly is the spacer there for? Is there a flange on the thereaded piece? On the nut-knob?


How are the ends put together- Specifically what is it the clip that holds the ball into them?

Circlip
01-16-2009, 08:00 AM
Sorry Carld, yep T-M it would be better for you to buy one.

Regards Ian.

Try this Carl http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/The_V8_Aero_Engine___Eric_Whittle.html

J Harp
01-16-2009, 09:27 AM
T M I think you about have it figured out. The head of the bolt has an angled cut on it the same as the sleeve on this end. Tightening the nut puts pressure on the inner rods, pushing them against the balls, and also pulls them toward each other to lock the arm joint. The spacer keeps the arm joint in alignment.

The two smaller wire clips, (at least they look like just round wire clips) keep the end sleeves on the arms. The larger clips go into the grooves inside the sleeves after the ball is in place, to keep the ball captive. At least that's the way I see it.

I have an idea for an improvement, but I don't know how to post a sketch here.

Carld
01-16-2009, 10:12 AM
Thanks circlip, I have two drawings they list but I got them from somewhere else a long long time ago.