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View Full Version : OT: Age. Lets play a quick game...



Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 03:00 PM
First impression! How old am I? (no cheating by looking at my profile)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Lizoid/Picture44.jpg


No one ever gets it right, you'll all guess way too young.

Just wondering if this is a local problem or if I really do look "that young." It does have it's advantages, but there is a downside to it, mainly when trying to demonstrate technical proficiency.

Jim Caudill
01-14-2009, 03:09 PM
I'd guess about 35. If you can see hair growing out of their ears, guess around 50.

BTW, after submitting my guess, I looked in your profile: nothing there to indicate what your age might be.

Nick1911
01-14-2009, 03:10 PM
First impression, 27-30.

Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Not saying yet, want to get a bigger cross-section of opinions before I say.

Age came up again twice this week: Once at the jobsite and the employment agency made mention of it too. It's becoming a chronic issue that seriously impacts my ability to earn a wage.

I was told I look far too young to safely set up the lathe I was working on pack up your tools and report back to the agency and the agency mentioned this wasn't the first complaint they've had about my age, that they need a proper birth-certificate before they assign me any more jobs.

Puts my on the job experiences in a whole new light that comment does.

Nick1911
01-14-2009, 03:25 PM
Personally, I think you would look older with a beard. Don't know if that's a viable option in your situation though.

John Stevenson
01-14-2009, 03:26 PM
42.
I'm guessing that by the shirt.
I had a shirt like that when i was 42.

dp
01-14-2009, 03:31 PM
I have a shirt like that and it's 42.

Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 03:32 PM
Now that's funny, I got that shirt from a rummage-sale to wear around the machines and the gentleman who sold it to me had a UK-ish accent. :D

HSS
01-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Well John, if you go by what shirt you had when you were 42, I would have to say 17 cause I had a beard like that when I was 17.

Patrick:D :D

S_J_H
01-14-2009, 03:50 PM
Well I'll play-
You look younger than me (48)http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/pics003.jpg
and older than my son(20) or his girl friend(18).
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/SteveHannah002.jpg


I'll guess you are around 25 or so.

Steve

John Stevenson
01-14-2009, 04:01 PM
Well I'm not posting any damn pictures as I have had to turn mine round on the mantlepiece so they face the wall because they give the dog nightmares..............

Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 04:13 PM
Well I'm not posting any damn pictures as I have had to turn mine round on the mantlepiece so they face the wall because they give the dog nightmares..............

Yeah you'd distract us from oggling the chick on the other page. Damn 18 year olds weren't that hot when I was young enough to date 18-year-olds. :D

(I got "wait, you're HOW OLD? Dude, that's like.... old!" before I married, and I get "You're not that old, don't touch the machine child" from my employers. No justice. :D)

RancherBill
01-14-2009, 04:41 PM
From the pics I'd guess people think you're early 20s.

Reality is probably different.

If you want to look older do like they do on TV - do an old guy makeover.

Get a mustache or beard. Get rid of the young movie star 2 day growth. Also don't do the goatee thing, it typically on young guys.

Get some sensible glasses of a style that is several years old. Mature guys don't care about style or they have kids and mortgage and can't afford cool glasses.

Don't wear current "cool fashion colors". Stick with tried and true navy blue and beige, or try a plaid shirt. Pocket protectors or a spiral notepad in the pocket are something you don't see on young guys.

The same goes for pants and shoes.

Or do like I did and wait for the years to roll up. :D :D

Evan
01-14-2009, 04:48 PM
You don't really have a baby face so I will bet you are fairly short. Get some elevator shoes.

madman
01-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Id post a picture of myself but that lady would just put my ugly butt face to shame even more. She is a good looking Lady. Lucky Kid. By the way youre 46 i betcha. Hairs droppin out qiuit combing it so much. Just helpful hint Im half bald myself. Too much helmet as a kid i guess

38_Cal
01-14-2009, 05:05 PM
I'll guess 31. (My wife kept getting carded until she was darn near 40, I just got dirty looks from the old ladies!)

David
Montezuma, IA

Alistair Hosie
01-14-2009, 05:07 PM
I guess your about 60 give or take 30years:DAlistair

John Stevenson
01-14-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah you'd distract us from oggling the chick on the other page. Damn 18 year olds weren't that hot when I was young enough to date 18-year-olds. :D



Too right,
At the risk of doing a temporary hijack I'd like to tell you a story about what we know as page 3 girls.

When I was about 21 and still single I was working for a small haulage company, what you call a trucking company. It was run by a father and son operation. father Frank, was real old school, knew all the tricks and was dead smart.

Son, Dennis was the perfect Tiffipedia entry for a playboy, for real.
Nice guy but had everything, married, nice wife, flash cars, big house but still had to play the field, bags of cash. That paints the scene.

So one Saturday night I'm working late as we had a disastrous week and had blown about 3 engines and all the spares had gone and I was trying to get a spare together from the bits we had lying around.

Dennis blows in the yard in his Aston Martin BD6, rushes in the garage and says
" Quick John, go home, get changed and come back to the Tanye Manor, I'm in there with my latests bird and the wife has come in with her friends, I've told her she's with you and you had to pop out.
Once she's moved on I'll be clear "

So there's me, 6' 1", 120 #, spotty faced and with a dress sense like Fred Flintstone.

Went to leave and suddenly though about cash for the night as that lot drank like fish. "What about money for the drinks Dennis ? "

Dennis sticks his hand in his pocket, drew out 25 and said that should do. I was on 19 a week wages less overtime at that time :confused:.

Went home, got washed and changed and back to the Tanye Manor,
Dennis had already squared the doorman so no problem, upstairs and joined Dennis party.

Well this bird needed to be on page 2, not page 3 she was stunning, turns out she was an air hostess for what is now Emirates [ the airport was only two miles away and the crews always hotelled in the village ] and I have to make out I'm with this :rolleyes: but more to the point I have to make people believe I've pulled this ?

So get the first round in for everyone and try to start chatting this bird up, no way I was out classed, out gunned. She's asking me where I have been, Hong Kong? No, America? No, Australia? No,
Bangkok ? No but I'm hoping to [ that was wasted ]

Hadn't got the heart to tell her I'd never been more than 140 miles from home and that was on a breakdown !

Skipped a drink on the next round, had one, skipped one and this went on for ages. Dennis's missus wasn't moving, It was getting real hot in this place and I was getting real pissed.

Eventually Dennis's missis and her friends called a couple of taxis and went clubbing in town and I could breath a sigh of relief and I left [ Dennis remembered to ask for the change back ]
Realised outside by this time I'm totally pissed and can't drive home so and got no money so decided to drive to the garage, about 1/2 mile and sleep in Franks boat which was wintered up in the end of the garage, bit 55 foot floating gin palace.

Got in the car and that's the last thing I remember.


Woke up some time later in this white room and I mean white.

Everything was white, no colour at all, I though sh1t I'm dead, then I realised that I probably wouldn't have gone to heaven anyway, puled the covers back and I'm in skivvies but no marks on my body, no broken legs, neck cuts or bruises and everything is deadly quiet.

Crept out of bed and carefully opened the door, long corridor with white carpet and all white doors, I am I'm dead, I have to be dead.

Right at the far end is a brown door, slowly creep up trying not to make a noise and carefully open the door and peek in................

Big sigh of relief as I recognised Dennis kitchen as I'd been there a few time to drop stuff off but never been in the actual house.

Turns out I had collapsed in the car, hit my head on the horn ring and Dennis had found me and took me home. Never found out whether he got rumbled or not.

.

Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Don't mind the hijack, this isn't a very "serious" thread anyway and that's a wonderful story. :D

Carld
01-14-2009, 06:45 PM
I'd say about 12 or 15 years old.

motorworks
01-14-2009, 06:57 PM
I say 32

Now John that was another chapter in you unwritten book!

As 4 the pic of the girl ;)

Your Old Dog
01-14-2009, 07:15 PM
Well, I'm old enough to tell by your question pretty much what the answer is! Got to be mid 40's.

Evan
01-14-2009, 07:29 PM
I'll play too although a lot of people already know how old I am. I'll give a clue as well.

We have three grandsons. We just got word from our son that they are expecting their second. This time it's a girl. :)

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics5/ew3.jpg

Liger Zero
01-14-2009, 07:49 PM
One of the first posters nailed it: Going to be 35 in just a few weeks.

...and this thread confirms what I suspected, it is a regional bias.

Some of it has to do with the age of the workforce out there, quite a few older workers were let go from Kodak and Xerox and they've set themselves up in positions where they are acting to prevent themselves from being replaced yet again. On the one hand I feel for them no one likes to have a career end a decade from retirement, on the other hand the law is clear you cannot use age as a deciding factor when it comes to employment. That's what the broad brush-stroke of "at will employment" comes in.

Not sure how I'm going to handle it going forward... I already changed careers once. I was attracted to machining/machine trades because its a combination of art and science like plastic-molding was... on the other hand I'm not sure if I can make a living doing this when my path is blocked by people who are scared ****less of being replaced.

It's the second full week of January and I've already been let go from a job. At least this time I know in writing why I was let go. Not going to be a good year.

The agent has the document in her possession, I got to see it this morning. It states:

"REASON FOR TERMINATION: Employee appears to be under age 18 which is minimum legal age for employment."

The agent tells me that I have been let go from two other assignments for the same reason, and this is why she requested a copy of my birth certificate.

Frankly I don't understand this. If I was doing something wrong you would think they would bloody well state that on the documents.

To be fair, the agent that I am working with is a new worker at the service, she pulled my file and went over some stuff with me today. Turns out every week I'm on an assignment the company I am working for is required to fill out a report, its a sort of grading card. It tells the staffing agency if I am doing my job properly, if I am getting along with people on site, if I show up on time... things of that nature.

I've worked many of those assignments through to the end of the contract term, had a few end on less than favorable terms but that's expected... but it utterly baffles me why my age (at my age) would even be a factor.

Looking back over the past couple years I wonder how many other times I've been let go because of this. I can understand being let go for showing up late, or making a mistake on the job or just not getting along/fitting in on a job... that's life. Happens sometimes.

But upon reflection the number of times that I've been called aside by bosses and asked "how old are you really" and "when did you say you graduated..." comments like "new kid" "have the child do it" "go get that young brat to do it" I really really wonder now about my situation.

Anyway, I'm done here. My question has been answered. Tomorrow I get up, dust off and go find another job. Gotta keep going forward.

Boucher
01-14-2009, 10:27 PM
Remember it is better to be too young . You can grow older.
If you are too old. You can't grow younger.
I got my BSME degree at age twenty five graduated with a EE that was Fourteen. He had no idea how brilliant he was. It just came easy and natural for him. By chance I crossed paths with him professionally about ten years later. He was a lot more likeable at age 24 than 14. One of the best Bosses that I ever had was so baby faced that it took him a while to be accepted. Do what ever it takes to correct the misconception. Photo copy your birth certificate and carry it with you if you need to. Develop your skills and show them your stuff. Good Luck!

TGTool
01-14-2009, 10:45 PM
The agent has the document in her possession, I got to see it this morning. It states:

"REASON FOR TERMINATION: Employee appears to be under age 18 which is minimum legal age for employment."

The agent tells me that I have been let go from two other assignments for the same reason, and this is why she requested a copy of my birth certificate.


Wait a minute. If they really suspect you're under the legal age they've got a right to check, and they should have. "Appears to be" sounds like grounds for an EEOC complaint of discrimination.

38_Cal
01-14-2009, 10:55 PM
Wait a minute. If they really suspect you're under the legal age they've got a right to check, and they should have. "Appears to be" sounds like grounds for an EEOC complaint of discrimination.

Especially when you've got to show proof of citizenship for La Migra, or whatever the alef-bet soup agencies call themselves these days. :D

I've got the opposite problem, skills that are not in demand in this area other than by my former employer (gunsmith/advanced customer service/tech writer) with either too much or too little formal education, plus too many birthdays! :rolleyes:

David
Montezuma, IA
Got up to -3F today! It was so much fun dancing with the snowblower.

A.K. Boomer
01-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Get some sensible glasses of a style that is several years old. Mature guys don't care about style or they have kids and mortgage and can't afford cool glasses.

:D


Thats just the tip of the iceberg --- whatever kind of glasses you wear try to put them on straight --- hell, Thats probably why they dont want you on a lathe, I guarantee you it will add at least a decade (which will make you look like your about 24)
If you do this and then make sure your shoes on on the correct feet then youve got a sporting chance to at least convince them you know what your doing -- If that dont work then get married - divorced - and let her have half your stuff and you will develop some pretty serious wrinkles, if that still dont work then find the biggest burr that you can find and implant it up your butt -- now you wont have to fake it...
( and dont frett -- your going to settle real nice into society when your about 87;) ) This is a good thing...

wierdscience
01-14-2009, 11:43 PM
Liger,your 42 I am guessing,OOPS,edit that,okay your only 35.Try adding some conversational profanity,appropriatetly punctuated of course.Like when a forman spouts out the specs of a boring mill,let him finish then ask in calm tones "The F--- you say?Big some bitch that's for sure" or something like that.Makes you seem more worldly and experienced.

If all else fails find yourself some merchant marines and take lessons:)

Steve,have you been patting your son on the back and saying "DUDE!Way to go" lately?:)

Evan,had to show my Dad that,he agrees,lose the cap and you would be the spitting image of the Carpet King.Very local celebrity from years back.All you need to be complete is a big yellow and red sign advertising indoor outdoor carpet $2.99/yd:)

loosescrewmt
01-14-2009, 11:54 PM
I'd have to say that there is something wrong with this- you've filled out a W2, the temp agency knows how old you are. They should be going to bat for you on the age thing. It's a BS reason for letting you go from the job, but it does let the co. off the hook for the early termination of you. (they usually pay some sort of fee to the agency) Make some noise about this, and see what happens.

andy_b
01-15-2009, 01:17 AM
you know, i've read this entire thread and all i can remember is that Steve's son's girlfriend could be in a Mitutoyo calendar. :)

andy b.

J Tiers
01-15-2009, 09:52 AM
You already gave your age, but it is perfectly true that you COULD from appearance, be anything from about 17 to ???.

Time will fix that, but instead of "Just for Men", you probably need to comb in a little hair bleach around the temples...... might fix the problem. I am not actually quite kidding......

Scishopguy
01-15-2009, 05:36 PM
Liger0...I would have guessed mid 30's but I am used to young looking guys. My son just turned 30 and he could pass for high school age. He is a mechanic at a Ford dealership and is the youngest looking one of the flat rate guys. I don't know what is going on with the age thing. When I worked in tool and die, we had apprentices from the local high schools and once the lead man knew that they weren't dangerous, they set up all the lathes and mills. I guess times have changed a lot since 1972. They have all gotten "lawyered up" and fear some kind of law suit. Hang in there and give them a hard time about it. Age discrimination is illegal.

Liger Zero
01-15-2009, 05:49 PM
Its not so much the lawsuit thing as it's fear of losing a job to the "younger" crowd. People are seriously afraid they are going to be replaced by younger less-expensive workers. It's true up to a point... but I have a LONG way to go before I can "replace" an experienced machinist...

Problem is selling that to the people who have gotten laid off from a lifetime career who have mortgages and cars and college-age children to pay for. I'm not the bad-guy here, don't take it out on me. I'm trying to pay my bills/get out of debt just like everyone else. :)

Sock Puppet
01-15-2009, 06:09 PM
I'll play too although a lot of people already know how old I am.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics5/ew3.jpg

OK I'll guess 85 but you must be 157 to have done all you have :D

Frank Ford
01-15-2009, 06:23 PM
LZ -

Don't worry about "appearing too youthful." Just become self-employed and you'll start to show your age soon enuf. . .

JS
01-15-2009, 09:17 PM
I have found that how you carry yourself makes a difference : body language , attitude , decision making processes , etc .

People do get impressions from these things.

MickeyD
01-15-2009, 09:31 PM
Looks like Sock Puppet forgot to take his meds this morning.

oldtiffie
01-15-2009, 09:39 PM
Perhaps he did.

oldtiffie
01-15-2009, 11:26 PM
There is another side to this coin.

I have had to smile at some who were over our "Seniors" age - 50 - here when they ask for a "Seniors Discount/Rate" (can be 10% at times) are either upset if asked if they have a "Seniors" card (as if they are not old enough) and those who are just as upset when service providor suggests that they may like the Seniors items!!!

Then there are those who are approaching or over 40 who are shocked to the extent that they "freak out" at it as it suggests that they are "old", and who either deny it or suggest that "50 is the new 40" - and of course the inevitable "60 is the new 50".

I guess its know as varying definitions or degrees of "age-ism".

And what about those who were "teens" and under who just wished their life/years away wanting to be old enough to (fill in your own suggestions here - there's lots of 'em) and then want those "wished away" years back when they are in their 40's to 60's etc.

"The moving finger writes and having writ,
Moves on
And all your piety and wit will not change a word/line of it".
(Omar Kyyam)

Its either your clock or time-bomb thats ticking (seems faster as you get older - say over 20?, 30?, 40?, ??? - doesn't it?).

Well, I must wind up the cat and put the clock out.

Evan
01-16-2009, 07:51 AM
OK I'll guess 85 but you must be 157 to have done all you have

I am not in the habit of talking to other people's imaginary friends John. I see now that the ignore user function actually has a valid purpose.

John Stevenson
01-16-2009, 10:25 AM
It's a good feature.
I tried it a while ago with one poster but the traffic on the board dropped by half for some reason.

Evan
01-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I suggest you study the physcological problems that afflict ventriloquists.

John Stevenson
01-16-2009, 12:12 PM
Not interested I'm too busy training to drink 7 pints without moving my lips.

Circlip
01-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Can't you ditch the agency LZ ? They can keep finding you "Temp" jobs, but it's your C/V that suffers, gives a prospective employer the impression that you're a drifter.

You're lucky that you are on the "Young" side of the coin cos when you go for interviews when you're "Older" the smart a4se kid on the other side of the desk thinks you're after HIS job :mad: It makes them feel inferior, that the ole fart might know more than they do.

Ageism litigation? Think long and hard before you go down that route, most of the barmy litigation issues over here have eventually drifted over from your side of the pond. At the end of the day, companies have got more money to throw away defending "Righteous" issues with corporate bulls47tters far cleverer than Joe public, don't make it right but it's cheaper and less stressfull for YOU.

Regards Ian.

Evan
01-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Ageism litigation? Think long and hard before you go down that route, most of the barmy litigation issues over here have eventually drifted over from your side of the pond. At the end of the day, companies have got more money to throw away defending "Righteous" issues with corporate bulls47tters far cleverer than Joe public, don't make it right but it's cheaper and less stressfull for YOU.


I would not be surprised if LZ could find a solicitor to take the case on contingency. The stakes are potentially much higher in the US than in Canada or the UK (I presume). There are no limits on punitive damage awards in the US nor on compensation for psychological pain and suffering. Even this thread would constitute evidence in that respect. It's the sort of issue that would have a jury falling all over themselves to see that "justice is done" by picking the pockets of the "fat cats". This is especially so because LZ's actual age is so far beyond the legal limit. It sounds like a good half dozen defendants could be named, at least.

Liger Zero
01-16-2009, 01:28 PM
I am not suing anyone. I sued an employer over back-wages recently and I can assure you it is the port of last resort. The idea that the court system exists as some kind of jackpot drawing bugs the hell out of me.

True story: I was walking my bike home over the summer, I ended up with a flat and I didn't have a spare tube on me. Got winged by a car driven by an older fellow, knocked me to the ground, got a bit banged up. He and his wife were scared witless that I was going to sue them. Now why the heck would I do that? I wasn't seriously injured, and if I had been that's what insurance is for! *shakes head*

Maybe I'm just not with it anymore, whatever it is. I use to be with it, in fact I was downright jiggy with it. But then they changed what it is and now it's all different and strange. Damn kids. :D

The situation worked out to my benefit this time with the agent and the employer. The owner of the company and the agent at the service talked and I can continue to work there. The owner doesn't have any quarrel with my work and he is uncertain why I would have been let go in the middle of busy-season without someone consulting him first.

Around here all that is left is temp-work, it is exceedingly rare to find a permanent gig. Even companies that hire without an agency are just looking to get a few people in to help with with the backlog, not to retain them long term.

As for my CV/Resume it's shot all to hell because of this most companies around here are "in" on the temp thing so if you show them a string of one-month gigs they ask "which service?"

I asked before, is this limited to the Upstate region of New York or is this nationwide? I have a very hard time imagining that the entire nation has gone this route.

Evan
01-16-2009, 01:41 PM
The big thing here is to make everyone possible a contractor instead of an employee. That puts them outside of the entire system of benefits and labor law in general. Xerox tried to do that to me and that was the beginning of the end. They used strong arm tactics such as "If you don't accept this you will be at the mercy of human resources" (I have it on tape). I went to the Labour relations branch and had a little talk and they were more than willing to turn the Xerox offices upside down looking for evidence of improper conduct. I let Xerox know that and nothing came of thier "threats". I decided then that I wouldn't be working for them much longer.

Circlip
01-16-2009, 01:51 PM
Ouch! I just broke a fingernail typing. Wonder if some clever lawyer can take GB and HSM to court to make a claim for me? Pain and suffering ? Lots of claims have been won over here on no-brainers, falling over matchsticks, walking on a crack in the floor, is there an R in the month?

Bottom line is do you really want to work for a company that would give "He looks too young" as an excuse? If that is the real reason or one that they have used as an escape route.Yep find a lawyer, go for broke, win enough money to set yourself up in your own bussiness, cos once you win you achive "Notoriety" for the little guy.

Regards Ian.

Liger Zero
01-16-2009, 02:14 PM
Bottom line is do you really want to work for a company that would give "He looks too young" as an excuse? If that is the real reason or one that they have used as an escape route.Yep find a lawyer, go for broke, win enough money to set yourself up in your own bussiness, cos once you win you achive "Notoriety" for the little guy.

Regards Ian.

Around here you play the legal system and word gets circulated quickly and you will find yourself blacklisted. Oh it's not an "official" blacklist like in the old days but information gets circulated quickly between companies if a worker is a whistle-blower or a thief or any other sort of troublemaker.

Like I said, it's not "official" companies won't come out and say "Bob at Linish-It told me not to hire you because you are a thief" that's slander/libel... no they'll just turn you away "not hiring sorry."

Watched a good friend go through this years ago, he blew the whistle at a large plastic-packaging/printing company in regards to solvent exposure, he suddenly found himself unable to find work in printing anywhere in New York. Eventually it was traced back to the company he blew the whistle at and he ended up dragging through the courts again. :rolleyes:

So yeah. I want to avoid that, legal action is the absolute last resort.

Scishopguy
01-16-2009, 02:16 PM
The depressing thing, at least to me, is that the lawyers get the larger share of any damages that are awarded. That is why the awards have to be so big so that the client can actually get enough to pay his medical expenses. As for pain and suffering, I have little sympathy. I have always had to take my lumps and go on about my business best I can. Don't get me wrong, I am not against suing someone who really needs it, just that most suits get so much fluf and BS added so that lawyers can get richer. Just proves our system is broken.

Companies, on the other hand, have come up with all kinds of schemes to avoid paying benefits and sharing any responsability for the workers well being. Even with state jobs there is the OPS employee, who gets no benefits, does the same work as line item employees, and has no job security. They are only supposed to be temporary, 6 months tops, but clever departments have a way of shifting their funding from one source to another (grants) and extending their service to a whole career. One OPS secretary that worked in my department is still working there after 30 years. The only benefit that seems to keep them working there is that there is no cap on their salary.

noah katz
01-16-2009, 03:08 PM
Maybe they're gauging your competence by the quality of your eyeglasses installation.

Circlip
01-16-2009, 03:16 PM
Precisely LZ, but if the owner didn't know why you should have been "Let go" at a busy time it makes you wonder which bitch has a knife out for you? Just make sure that everything you do is documented. Been there, seen it, done it and come out smelling of roses, AND maintained my integrity.

Regards Ian.