PDA

View Full Version : CDCO Machinery?????



bighammer
01-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Anybody here have any experience with the 5C collet chuck they have for $139, or the collets for same?

Seems not too long ago you could get that price for that weight of scrap, or these just a little more shiney?????

bighammer

Just Bob Again
01-15-2009, 12:28 PM
You mostly get what you pay for. It's a good buy for what you get. Mine looks good. Runout is more like .0015, not tenths. Would have to rework it some to get it any better. Otherwise, it's fine for the light use I give it. I stuck mine on a D1 backplate and it works. Sticks out quite a ways. Anything that sticks out 5" from the spindle isn't easy to get true to tenths. Weighs a good bit. 10 pounds maybe.

rmack898
01-15-2009, 12:46 PM
Try here http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=27239&highlight=5c+collet+chuck

carlquib
01-15-2009, 12:51 PM
Hit and miss on the quality. But on average pretty good quality. Just be sure and check as soon as you get stuff. I made the mistake once of buying a super cheap 4" rotory table, was like $29.00. I had a project in mind for it, was supposed to be 90:1 ratio and had dials graduated for 90:1. A year after I got it I went to start the project and started turning the handles expecting 4 degrees per turn, but got 9. Uuugh called Frank and fussed but nothing happened, but it was a year later. I don't have the CDCO collet chuck, mine came from Lathe Master, but I do have a large selection of 5C collets from CDCO, most have been spot on. Only had a couple that were out by more than .0005. Just send them back and they will send new collets. Most of CDCO's stuff is very good for the price.

Thought I would mention that the 5C collet chuck I got is the direct mount D1-4 adjust true. Works great, not as fast as a collet closer, but very accurate with a good collet and ground rod only have a couple tenths runout six inches from the chuck after playing with the adjust true.

-brian

ProGunOne
01-15-2009, 01:08 PM
I just ordered one from them last week and it's still in the box. Been too busy to get it mounted.

RetiredFAE
01-15-2009, 02:27 PM
You mostly get what you pay for. It's a good buy for what you get. Mine looks good. Runout is more like .0015, not tenths. Would have to rework it some to get it any better. Otherwise, it's fine for the light use I give it. I stuck mine on a D1 backplate and it works. Sticks out quite a ways. Anything that sticks out 5" from the spindle isn't easy to get true to tenths. Weighs a good bit. 10 pounds maybe.

Ditto the above with the exception that the run out on mine is more like .0012, must have been built on a Wednesday, and Just Bob Again's was made on a Monday or Friday. But mine works for everything I needed it for. Same for the collets.

kenrinc
01-15-2009, 04:06 PM
Ditto here. Got mine last year but just got around to mounting it up a few months ago. I was able to get mine to less than .001 TIR with a piece of precision ground carbide in the chuck. I can get it better just haven't had time to look at it again (wonder why I needed it :-) I've heard other stories not so good. Looked to be pretty well made for $140. Originally I was going to make a backplate the way this guy did: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCColletChuck.htm

He made a fixture in his normal chuck from machined round stock and then used a collet in the new chuck to mount on this fixture backward so he could cleanup the register. But when I did that setup I noticed that deflection, from the weight of the chuck, was causing at least .002" TIR if not more so I choose not to clean up the chuck register. Not knocking it but it didn't work for me. I cut my backplate spigot .010" smaller, mounted the chuck, indicated with a piece of ground stock in the chuck, tapped it true and tightened the bolts. I'm happy.

$.02

Ken-

lazlo
01-15-2009, 05:43 PM
You mostly get what you pay for. It's a good buy for what you get. Mine looks good. Runout is more like .0015, not tenths. Would have to rework it some to get it any better.Ditto the above with the exception that the run out on mine is more like .0012, must have been built on a Wednesday, and Just Bob Again's was made on a Monday or Friday.

Wow, that's pretty bad runout! You can get about that with a normal (non Adjust-Tru) 3-jaw chuck!

Any chance of adding an adjust-tru mechanism to it?

pcarpenter
01-15-2009, 06:28 PM
I would wonder if even just recutting the backplate would make it better than that. The chuck may be precision ground, but I would bet the import backplate is not. I swear Allistair said his had less runout than that.

Paul

oldtiffie
01-15-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't have the CDCO C5 collet adaptor for my lathe etc. but I do have the ER-32 adaptor.

I used a similar method as kenrinc except that I left my spindle spigot "as is" and bored out the back of the adaptor and used the "tap true" (with a bronze "dolly") and tightened up and all is well:

I cut my backplate spigot .010" smaller, mounted the chuck, indicated with a piece of ground stock in the chuck, tapped it true and tightened the bolts. I'm happy.

So far as I can see, the comments so far are for a single TIR check.

That's OK so far as it goes if any error is "cylindrical" - ie same error from end to end. It is an entirely different matter if the error is "conical" (ie almost as if the test piece or the collet bore are "bent"). It is quite possible to have both types of error simultaneously.

Further, any errors - either or both - can be in the adaptor bore, or the collet outer taper or the collet bore.

And just to complicate matters a little more, the re-location of the adaptor to the lathe spindle can vary if care is not taken to re-mount it exactly the same way each time.

And another, of course is that individual collets may vary as well.

It is quite possible that each and every component is within manufacturing tolerances, but when used in conjunction with each other, the accumulated "errors" within the separate tolerances ranges may effectively all be additive and/or subtractive so that the in the end they are largely self-canceling or else they may all "add up" and seem that the assembly is "way out" in its TIR.

A "quick fix" in one set-up may not necessarily be so successful in subsequent set-ups.

lazlo
01-15-2009, 07:56 PM
I would wonder if even just recutting the backplate would make it better than that. The chuck may be precision ground, but I would bet the import backplate is not. l

Yeah, I would think that you should be able to true-it up a lot better than 15 thou. Maybe start by truing the mounting plate by itself, then chuck an indicator bar, mark the high spots, and tweak it back to concentric.

japcas
01-15-2009, 09:38 PM
Yeah, I would think that you should be able to true-it up a lot better than 15 thou. Maybe start by truing the mounting plate by itself, then chuck an indicator bar, mark the high spots, and tweak it back to concentric.

Lazlo, Bob's post said .0015 not .015. Really not bad for the cost but it could probably be tuned to run a little closer.

bighammer
01-16-2009, 12:40 PM
Thanks for the input, it seems that the collet chuck can be tweeked it need be.

Ken interesting way to go about it, I only need to mount it on 2 1/4" 8 thd. spindle.

Mac, I missed that thread entirely, thank you.

bighammer

kenrinc
01-17-2009, 03:14 AM
I thought it was common practice to undercut the backplate spigot to allow for adjustment. Sort of a poor man's adjust true. I grew up in the 80's and learned it from Torgerson and McClean. One tip, if you do this, and you have a threaded spindle, you can't use your chuck key to unscrew your chuck. Or any other part of the chuck. You need to drill a separate hole on the periphery of the backplate and use a piece of rod to loosen the chuck otherwise, there goes your accuracy....

Ken-

gbritnell
01-17-2009, 07:28 AM
I like many others have purchased import machine tool products. Most of them have done the job that I wanted. Having come from an old machine shop that had domestic or German tooling from the 50's and 60's I was used to using a tool that did "exactly" what I wanted it to do. I have dealt with CDCO, Shars, Enco etc. and have had good service on their products. The thing that I find upsetting is their specifications. I too bought a 5c collet chuck with listed tolerances around .0003 to .0005. At the time I purchased it I also bought the threaded backplate for it. When it arrived I unpacked it and thought "now that looks like a nice piece of tooling." It was all surface ground and in general seemed like it might meet the tolerances that they had listed. The first order was to mount the backing plate on my 11" Logan. The threads started nice enough but when I got to the back of the unthreaded part of the spindle the adaptor wouldn't go any farther so I took it off and started measuring. It seems like the lathe spindle is just a little bit larger in diameter than the threaded area and the adaptor has no counterbore in it whatsoever. I had to mount it in my 4 jaw chuck and machine out the counterbore area to fit my spindle. "No problem" you say, no not for me because I had a large enough 4 jaw to mount it in but what if you didn't. So after this step was complete I took off the 4 jaw chuck and screwed on the backing plate, good fit now. The O.D. must have been a universal fit also because it was almost 2.25 larger in diameter so I turned that down and machined the step on the face to accomodate the 5c chuck. My fit was size for size to the chuck. The next step was to drill and tap the mounting holes, the only part of this whole operation that I was expecting to do other than the step for chuck. Holes are now drilled and tapped, new shiny chuck is mounted, and the whole thing is screwd back on my spindle. At this point I should be getting a little excited but past experiences with import tooling and all of the aforementioned steps have me in a state of caution. I put in a collet and a nice long piece of broken carbide endmill shank and mount up my indicator and "voila" .0015 indicator runout. Now I'm peed off but I have to remember, I've bought this import stuff before, but what happened to the .0003-.0005 they promised me? Now here's the best part! When I contacted the seller on ebay, stop, I know what you're going to say but it's still the same import tool that everyone else sells unless you can prove me wrong. Anyway, I tell the "gentleman" what I have found with his tooling but I am still going to keep it and he tells me "send whole thing back, I should never sell to you in first place". Notice the way his quote was stated? Another Asian fellow acting as a front man for all this import stuff. Well naturally I'm going to send it back after I have 3 hours of machine time in the backing plate and I have to rebox, drop it off at UPS, pay for shipping and have to hopefully wait for this enraged seller to refund my money. I still have this tool and use it quite frequently but to get back to the lead in to my story, you get what you pay for! If the one you purchase is good you're in luck, if not, oh well, it's another import. Here's one final piece to this story. When I bought the tool I paid for it immediately with PayPal so the seller had no complaint there but when I checked my feedback he had given me a negative feedback with the explaination of "don't sell to, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. In fact he used up his word limit up on the word 'bad'. Ah, import tooling, don't you just love it!!!!
gbritnell

Mike Hunter
01-17-2009, 10:02 AM
JB

Well not a big advocate for import tooling, but they certainly have their place. Case in point; recently needed a couple of V blocks for a fixture that Iím building. Accuracy of .002 would be acceptable.

First thought; Buy American, I can afford a few extra $$ for Starrett or B&S, look it up in the MSC Big book, over $600, whaaat?. Check out Shars price $69 with .0002 accuracy. Guess which I ordered.

Drill chucks, Have a bunch in the shop, bunch of Jacobs (Super Chuck), Coupe of Jacobs High Precision, a Rohm, Couple of Albrechts, and a couple of Shars brand precision. The ones that get used the most, Albrecht and the Shars. The best I can get out of the Jacobs Super Chucks is about .004. The Shars ($49) CNC precision chucks have a advertised run out of .0024, the couple I have show .0016 - .002. About the same as my $250 Jacobs High precision.

Theyíve been used in a semi-Production environment for over a year now, and at that price they are they quickly pay for themselves, and are disposable.

Iíve got one of the import 5 Collet chucks, I eventually got the run out down to .006, but for $139 Iíll live.

Iíve had a couple of those Grizzly/Enco import milling vises; you couldnít give me one Öcomplete garbage. I do like Parlec though (Taiwan), but Kurt is really the way to go.