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Alistair Hosie
01-19-2009, 05:10 PM
Congratulations a on a great new president for the USA I think the world really will like this guy I pray he does well god Bless America.Alistair

mochinist
01-19-2009, 05:12 PM
These threads usually don't end well, not sure what you don't get about that??

davidh
01-19-2009, 05:15 PM
not a good subject me thinks. . . only a bit more than half the population voted for him, the arabs love him as do germany and france as i;ve read. .

but he will be our new leader, and lets see what bag of tricks he may have up his sleeve to save our economy and our country.

good luck to him and his appointees. . . . .

Oldbrock
01-19-2009, 05:19 PM
A much brighter bulb than was on the previous tree. Good luck to him and U.S.A. Peter

malbenbut
01-19-2009, 05:21 PM
His Mam lives in a council house in England
MBB

John Stevenson
01-19-2009, 05:22 PM
What I want to know is how do your presidents know it's my birthday ?

ARE YOU LISTENING ALISTAIR YOU TIGHT GIT .........

Oldbrock
01-19-2009, 05:23 PM
GERROUT. Where did you hear that?

Alistair Hosie
01-19-2009, 05:31 PM
Your Ludship John Just Pick out a new lathe or whatever and I say publically Dan my pal alias OIL mAC will pay all costs guaranteed:D ohoh that's Dan not talking to me now as well :D anyway the world at large love your new president and I am one of them.Alistair

Dave P.
01-19-2009, 05:38 PM
I no longer expect much ( well never did actually) from our
elected officials, doubt this one will prove much different.
Those that work and save and pay our bills on time will
still be screwed by/for those who don't.
Suspect he'll be spending lots of money we don't have.
I figure we've went from "porked" to really, really "porked".
Dave P.

And I also doubt this thread will end well....lock it up!!!!!!

Teenage_Machinist
01-19-2009, 05:39 PM
Easy to be better than Bush the Accursed, not likely to be really great.

motorworks
01-19-2009, 06:12 PM
We Canadians pick out 49 songs from Canada to put on his ipod
See link:
http://www.cbc.ca/radio2/obamasplaylist/theplaylist.html

Liger Zero
01-19-2009, 06:30 PM
Like him or not, I think he'll be better than Bush II and Clinton for the sole fact that he has to undo the damage that both of them did.

I also think things will start "recovering" shortly (within a month) once it registers that SOMEONE is in charge again and "things are happening." Part of the reason things are going bad (at least my opinion of it) is because people seem to feel that no one is driving at this point, no one has a hand on the wheel so the best we can do is prepare for the absolute worst.

Once he gets in office and things (like 'em or not) start getting signed and the process starts moving again I feel the economic situation will improve a bit and hiring might pick up again.

My impression of Bush will always be that of a man who was great in a crisis (9/11) but did nothing when the economy shut down. He knew how to project a uniting front during a physical crisis but was out of his league when it came to everything else. I'm

Obama... if Congress can stick together and not fall into fighting Obama will be seen as a good president. He talks a good talk, but the real power comes from Congress and if Congress can get it together we'll be ok.

We shall see. He's got four years, if he does good I'll try to see him granted another four years. If not we'll try something else!

Spin Doctor
01-19-2009, 06:34 PM
Easy to be better than Bush the Accursed, not likely to be really great.

I'll let history be the judge as I have seen the rehabilitation of both Truman and Nixon's (well somewhat) terms in office in my lifetime. I'm not saying that GW will be proved to be right but time will tell. But for now somebody tell these people

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/us_world/Mission-Accomplished----In-Africa.html

Your Old Dog
01-19-2009, 06:38 PM
Yea it will be interesting to see how much he can accomplish with the media hanging on and pulling him down like they did W.

lazlo
01-19-2009, 06:42 PM
I'll let history be the judge as I have seen the rehabilitation of both Truman and Nixon's (well somewhat) terms in office in my lifetime.

Truman, perhaps, but Nixon will remain in infamy in the history books as the only US President that committed Federal Crimes and avoided impeachment by an 11th hour Presidential pardon.

There was an article on the Evening News about the sound-bites, or slogans that are associated with recent ex-Presidents: "Mr. Gorbachev, take down this wall", "A thousand points of light", "I did not have sex with that woman," "I am not a crook."

The problem was, no one could come up with a soundbite or slogan for Bush Jr. :)

tony ennis
01-19-2009, 06:44 PM
You won't catch the liberal US press saying many nice things about W. He has many accomplishments. The economic failure during his presidency is due to silly democratic initiatives (trying to legislate prosperity) and spineless Republican behavior (not shooting it down.)

I would just as soon see all of Congress voted out. Clean slate. The Congressional Flush.

Tax burdens and debt will crush the us now while Congress behaves like pigs at the trough.

Atlas Shrugged reads like Ayn Rand completed it yesterday.

That being said, I have to say that this presidential campaign, including the primaries, was a great example of American Democracy in action.

dp
01-19-2009, 06:45 PM
T

The problem was, no one could come up with a soundbite or slogan for Bush Jr. :)

They continue to misunderestimate him.

tony ennis
01-19-2009, 06:45 PM
soundbite or slogan for Bush Jr.

"Dead or Alive"

But it sounds like you're faulting W for not having a slick catchphrase...

mototed
01-19-2009, 06:54 PM
They are all crooks. They've never worked a day in there lives

Ted

Tinkerer
01-19-2009, 06:57 PM
Yea it will be interesting to see how much he can accomplish with the media hanging on and pulling him down like they did W. Y.O.D. The media is infatuated with him.... much like a tween girl to a boy band eyes all glazed over and panting.
Me I'll wait and see how thing look in a year... but with all the hand out he's talked about I get the impression that.

Hope for Change... (translation). Lucky to have two nickels left to rub together. They can not spend our way out of this finical quagmire.:rolleyes:

topct
01-19-2009, 07:26 PM
We live in interesting times.

We always have. And we always will.

Nature bats last.

Frank Ford
01-19-2009, 07:35 PM
For me, it's good to see that we have a leader I think might actually be smarter than I am. With any luck, Obama will rise to meet the challenges and opportunities presented to him. Clearly he knows the magnitude of his mission. . .

Dawai
01-19-2009, 07:59 PM
We can all hope for the best:

The fact Barack Hussien Obama does not meet the critieria stated in the Constitution of the United States does not seem to matter.

fact, he was a dual citizen when born, regardless if he was born in Hawaii or Kenya as his grandmother says.. His father was a citizen of Kenya, his mother a underage American, citizen of Hawaii.. A fact stated on "fight the smears" dot org.. Obama sponsored site.

Fact, he was adopted by Sorento while in Indonesia, Barry Sorento, Michelle got angry at the Kenya press and hollered she was proud that Barack had a step father that loved him so much he adopted him. His Birth certificate has been sealed.. meaning a adoption or name change?? Youtube search that.. the one he provided was issued in the early 80s..

Fact, any of the above circumstances make you "NOT" a Natural Born citizen.. Constitutional crisis is eminient.. that means all our remaining freedoms will be history, one bite at a time.. just like our friends in England and Canada.. we no longer will be "ceasar in America and rule" we will be servants to the state..

Fact: he is going to be sworn in, a vote by the majority of people wanting "change". It is coming..

Fact: while a US senator, he campaigned for the presidential hopeful in Kenya, that is against the law.. When he did not win, a violent upheaval started, he was granted 50% power there in Kenya to stop the murders and burning of Christian churches.. Even thou he lost, he won.. Notice the presidential similarities in the campain artwork? youtube it. He is known as the Kenyan Wonderboy there in Kenya.. whoo hoo..

I could give a personal rats ass, except I feel all politicians are raping and pillaging our country, stealing as much as possible, golden parachutes for all.

NOBODY is going to spend all our future incomes into prosperity, someone is going to have to pay for it.. (hey.. that's us).. Even thou a large percentage of Americans were against the 750bill, it still got done, huh? who are these people working for exactly?

That all being said.. I wish him well, he has chosen a good cabinet, Hope they can pull a "rabbit out of the hat" and bring the USA back from doom and gloom.. My Union, the IBEW block voted for Barack.

God bless the USA, God look over all my friends, God curse our enemies.. Some of our enemies of our country are in Washington DC.. Tar and feathers and rides on rails is my hope for change.
For republicans and Democrats alike.. I am on the democratic email list by the way. I get about three offers to sell me crap daily.. and now about twenty more spams a day..

HEY, this ain't ending well is it??

lazlo
01-19-2009, 08:21 PM
The fact Barack Hussien Obama does not meet the critieria stated in the Constitution of the United States does not seem to matter.

fact, he was a dual citizen when born, regardless if he was born in Hawaii or Kenya as his grandmother says.. His father was a citizen of Kenya, his mother a underage American, citizen of Hawaii..

David, we've had this discussion several times by PM. Obama was born in Hawaii, a US state. It doesn't matter what nationality his parent were, or who adopted him, according to the 14th Amendment, he's a US citizen.

This is from Snopes, a decidedly Republican site:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

The Fourteenth Amendment states that "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." Since Hawaii is part of the United States, even if Barack Obama's parents were both non-U.S. citizens who hadn't even set foot in the country until just before he was born, he'd still qualify as a natural-born citizen.

Some have claimed that Barack Obama's Hawaiian birthplace doesn't qualify him as a natural-born citizen because Hawaii was not yet a state when he was born. This claim is wrong: Hawaii was admitted as the 50th state almost two years before Barack Obama's birth there: 21 August, 1959 for statehood vs. 4 August 1961 for Obama's birthdate.

Frank Ford
01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
HEY, this ain't ending well is it??

Preceding a statement with the word "fact" does NOT make it true. But, in this case it does enflame an argument, particularly when it precedes a display of ignorance and prejudice.


God curse our enemies..

“You can safely assume you have created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates the same people you do.” --Annie Lamott

Oh, yes, I almost forgot - Thanks, Alistair, for your good wishes. We do have our hopes. . .

A.K. Boomer
01-19-2009, 08:41 PM
Well said Frank, Coffer goes off sometimes and tries to cover everyone in "sunshine"...

Alistair kills me, he's like the most mild mannered guy here and then throws one of these fugal balls into the soup! We love you Alistair --- We dont know who you are - but we do anyways...

hitandmissman
01-19-2009, 08:53 PM
Nothing will change---We still have the same old congress.

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:08 PM
Bush is getting a bad rap, historians 50 years from now will recognize all the good he did.
Obama is not even a naturalized US citizens, beyond belief how we ignored our constitution and elected a muslim Kenyan.

He is only half the problem, all the Barney Franks and Nancy Pelosi's and Boxers running the show behind him is what worries me the most.
With all that said, I never liked Mc****Stain, was just a perfect storm for Obama to get elected.

I just hope he does not raise taxes, bans more guns, and anything else that democrats are famous for.

tattoomike68
01-19-2009, 09:11 PM
I wish him the best of luck.

This is just a honeymoon. with high approval rating he now has only one way to go... down.

lazlo
01-19-2009, 09:12 PM
Obama is not even a naturalized US citizens, beyond belief how we ignored our constitution and elected a muslim Kenyan.

Oh, dear God. :eek:

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:15 PM
For me, it's good to see that we have a leader I think might actually be smarter than I am. With any luck, Obama will rise to meet the challenges and opportunities presented to him. Clearly he knows the magnitude of his mission. . .
That was pretty funny. I wonder what Barney Franks mission is or was? Get his million dollar pension and pimp out all his boyfriends in California? Did he rise to the occasion or take it like a little bitch?
he is such a sniveling little pompous retarded dweeb.

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:18 PM
Oh, dear God. :eek:
Well even if that certificate is real, he is still a muslim.

lunkenheimer
01-19-2009, 09:26 PM
Tomorrow is American democracy in action. If you like it, fine. If you don't, fine. But this isn't the place for that discussion. I don't see any connection between this thread and any machinist topics whatsoever. Now, if someone wants to discuss the strength of bleacher seats made of galvanized steel vs. aluminum, we might have a topic.

lazlo
01-19-2009, 09:29 PM
Obama ... is only half the problem, all the Barney Franks and Nancy Pelosi's and Boxers running the show behind him is what worries me the most.

Bill, if you do some basic math: there were around $1.5 Trillion in sub-prime NINJA loans issued as of EOY, 2008. About 35% of those mortgages (about $500 Million) defaulted. The value of all outstanding residential mortgages owed by US households was $10.6 trillion as of EOY 2008.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, we spent $8.5 Trillion in bailouts in 2008 (AIG, Bear-Stearns, TARP,...).

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=40964

tattoomike68
01-19-2009, 09:31 PM
Sales of handguns are up 48% , see... he is already helping the economy.

:D

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:31 PM
Tomorrow is American democracy in action. If you like it, fine. If you don't, fine. But this isn't the place for that discussion. I don't see any connection between this thread and any machinist topics whatsoever. Now, if someone wants to discuss the strength of bleacher seats made of galvanized steel vs. aluminum, we might have a topic.
I prefer bleacher seats made out of redwood covered with Manatee hide with ivory accents, stuffed with bald eagle downing feathers.

lunkenheimer
01-19-2009, 09:42 PM
I prefer bleacher seats made out of redwood covered with Manatee hide with ivory accents, stuffed with bald eagle downing feathers.


Still don't see much machining content here. What speeds and feeds would you recommend for machining ivory?

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:45 PM
Still don't see much machining content here. What speeds and feeds would you recommend for machining ivory?

Good question, I think we need to kill a few white rhinos to experiment with.

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:46 PM
Bill, if you do some basic math: there were around $1.5 Trillion in sub-prime NINJA loans issued as of EOY, 2008. About 35% of those mortgages (about $500 Million) defaulted. The value of all outstanding residential mortgages owed by US households was $10.6 trillion as of EOY 2008.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, we spent $8.5 Trillion in bailouts in 2008 (AIG, Bear-Stearns, TARP,...).

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=40964

I am no fan of the bailouts, nor any other form of welfare!

MickeyD
01-19-2009, 09:51 PM
Bill - put your tinfoil hat back on and take a chill pill. It took 8 plus years to get into this pickle and it will take a while to get us out. Personally I am very glad to have someone a lot smarter than I am trying to lead us out of this mess.

lunkenheimer
01-19-2009, 09:53 PM
Good question, I think we need to kill a few white rhinos to experiment with.

Rhino horn is much more fibrous than true ivory. Elephant ivory is easier to machine and polish.

BillH
01-19-2009, 09:58 PM
Rhino horn is much more fibrous than true ivory. Elephant ivory is easier to machine and polish.
Is baby white rhino ivory more tender?
I have no experience machining with Ivory, I thought the tree huggers put a stop to it?

dp
01-19-2009, 10:08 PM
Unbelievable thread. Ignorant bigots seem to spring up everywhere.

Thruthefence
01-19-2009, 10:18 PM
In the words of those wonderful Brits from the days of my youth:

" Meet the new Boss; same as the old Boss.........."


Won't get fooled again?? yeah, right.

RobbieKnobbie
01-19-2009, 10:21 PM
To keep pushing those tired slurs about our president's being a muslim, or not a citizen or any of the other garbage is downright offensive.

The man's got a daunting job in front of him, and like him or not, he sees what needs to be done: bring the country together and dig ourselves out of this mess. Regurgitating tired ultra-right wing propaganda isn't going to help anyone.

Do you consider yourself an American? How about showing some respect to your president!

wierdscience
01-19-2009, 10:33 PM
Okay,for all our sakes lets hope by some miracle he does a good job.

BUT-
In keeping with Obama's own lack of experience-

So far we have Hillary as SOS-no experience.

Then we have Pennetta as CIA director-no experience.

Then we have Timmy Geithner opps! Forgot to pay his taxes.

Richardson....gone he's under investigation too.

And the list keeps getting bigger.

I hear he might tap Elton John as chairman of the joint chiefs:rolleyes:

So far as the rest,take'm or leave'm.



Now for even more fun remember two names-

Nadhmi Auchi and William Miceli,they should be coming up in the next few months.

Half of Illinois is about to be indicted and lets not forget the circus surrounding Obama's former senate seat,that was pure comedy.

dp
01-19-2009, 10:39 PM
Do you consider yourself an American? How about showing some respect to your president!

And the president-elect.

gmatov
01-19-2009, 10:51 PM
Screw showing respect. The asses who are posting garbage are obviously rednecked black haters. Oh, Rep black haters, too.

Cases are in the Supreme Court of idiots who have PROOF that Obama is NOT a US BORN citizen.

BillH strikes me as a pure ass. Make comments to see what waters he can roil.

Maybe he should go audition for SNL, or Comedy Central. He'd probably be a hit, there. I don't watch it.

BillH,

He is your President, too, whether you accept it or not. I know Reps refute that, in general, and can't really understand why. Possibly because of assholes like you.

Cheers,

George

tattoomike68
01-19-2009, 10:59 PM
Nobody said they hate blacks in this thread so dont make it up.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/snoopdog6502/dancing_barak.gif

andy_b
01-19-2009, 11:04 PM
not a good subject me thinks. . . only a bit more than half the population voted for him, the arabs love him as do germany and france as i;ve read. .

but he will be our new leader, and lets see what bag of tricks he may have up his sleeve to save our economy and our country.

good luck to him and his appointees. . . . .

actually, half the population would be over 160 million. i think Obama was about 100 million short of that.

he seems like a nice guy and he certainly presents a good image on the world political scene. i'll be a member of that great unemployed mass after 25-JUN-09, so i certainly hope whatever he has planned does some good for the entire country, not just his friends.

andy b.

Mark Hockett
01-19-2009, 11:07 PM
It sad how this post went from this,

"Congratulations a on a great new president for the USA I think the world really will like this guy I pray he does well god Bless America."

To this,

"Screw showing respect. The asses who are posting garbage are obviously rednecked black haters. Oh, Rep black haters, too.

Cases are in the Supreme Court of idiots who have PROOF that Obama is NOT a US BORN citizen.

BillH strikes me as a pure ass. Make comments to see what waters he can roil."

andy_b
01-19-2009, 11:11 PM
For me, it's good to see that we have a leader I think might actually be smarter than I am. With any luck, Obama will rise to meet the challenges and opportunities presented to him. Clearly he knows the magnitude of his mission. . .

as far as i know, his school transcripts have not been released, so no one can really say just how smart he was/is. i'm not saying how smart he is, i'm just saying i haven't seen his transcripts.

andy b.

steve45
01-19-2009, 11:18 PM
Personally, I hope Obama fails miserably! I oppose everything he stands for: tax increases, gun control, socialized medicine, environmental extremism, Gitmo, Iraq war, etc. I think he is a truly evil man.

I don't care what color he is. I just don't like what he stands for or the people he is bringing with him to Washington. It will be a looooong, miserable 4 years...

andy_b
01-19-2009, 11:22 PM
I prefer bleacher seats made out of redwood covered with Manatee hide with ivory accents, stuffed with bald eagle downing feathers.

and i'm guessing you would want to sit on those seats smoking Cuban cigars and eating scrambled condor eggs? :)
make sure you leave your V10 F350 idling in the parking lot and your pet steer in the trailer farting.

man, this thread is so locked.

andy b.

andy_b
01-19-2009, 11:26 PM
To keep pushing those tired slurs about our president's being a muslim, or not a citizen or any of the other garbage is downright offensive.


Do you consider yourself an American? How about showing some respect to your president!

now that's funny. since you brought it up, do you think Michelle Obama picks the "American" box when she fills out those government forms?

ahh, one post closer to "Locked".

andy b.

andy_b
01-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Okay,for all our sakes lets hope by some miracle he does a good job.

BUT-
In keeping with Obama's own lack of experience-

So far we have Hillary as SOS-no experience.

Then we have Pennetta as CIA director-no experience.

Then we have Timmy Geithner opps! Forgot to pay his taxes.

Richardson....gone he's under investigation too.

And the list keeps getting bigger.

I hear he might tap Elton John as chairman of the joint chiefs:rolleyes:

So far as the rest,take'm or leave'm.



Now for even more fun remember two names-

Nadhmi Auchi and William Miceli,they should be coming up in the next few months.

Half of Illinois is about to be indicted and lets not forget the circus surrounding Obama's former senate seat,that was pure comedy.


don't forget, Caroline Kennedy is about to become the junior Senator for NY. so it now appears along with "being married to a President" being one qualification for public office, a second one could be "daughter of a dead Kennedy".

andy b.

tattoomike68
01-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Before this thread is locked this is a funny movie clip.

the new sheriff scene from blazing saddles

http://www.youtube.com/v/upvZdVK913I

tony ennis
01-19-2009, 11:52 PM
It will be a looooong, miserable 4 years...

You'll survive.

Love,
The Democrats

Dawai
01-19-2009, 11:55 PM
If the Obama birth certificate has no merit? why have they not responded with a Live birth certificate and copy of the "changed one" as McCain did as soon as requested? It is Hawain Law, only the person or the parents can gain access to a "locked" certificate in Hawaii.. They have assured by oath the one on the Obama site is the one on file.. but, alas, it is not the original one.. it is a modified by court version.. Meaning, he is not exactly who he says.. and he swore a oath while accepting his Senator seat he had no Alias'es before.

Meaning while he was enrolled in INdonesia, he went by Barry Sorento or Sotoerro? whichever.. Ahh.. What do you expect? A politician that tells the truth?

Why?

Racist.. that's the words people use when they have no valid response.. I was talking about the "white Half" of our newly elected president. Being a Mutt myself, I recognize what it was like growing up with a surrounding people who shared nothing in common.

Yeah, he is half white too.. HURRAH for the Half WHITE Obama, he is no Racist, he married a black woman and fathered some mixed kids.. more mixed up than Barack or me.. AND, he is still with the mother of "HIS" children.. mucho better than me.. I just make them and run the momma off..

So? and being Adopted by Indonesian Soretoro? or Sorento? I forget for the moment, Indonesia did not have dual citizenship, he had to give up his AMERICAN one to be Indonesian.. Meaning he had to swear a Oathe once he restablished his AMERICAN ties.. by moving back in with his White grandmother in Hawaii?

Don't you guys watch the Obama shows that came on Dish Network.. it played the same thing over and over.. Barack, his life story.. All about him. Even his school years in Indonesia.. it is all fact.. just research it and hush.. HE IS STILL ELECTED PRESIDENT.. I still have a copy on mY dish DVR.. it was a momentous occasion when I decided to vote for him, thou my state went Republican.. I chose what my "BLOCK" vote did.. I am part of a wheel, not a individual..

He is a great speaker.. A intelligent man, we can only hope for the best. I just wish I was selling guns instead of Harley parts. Gun sales are booming.. to put it mildly.. Even I went down and got a carry permit.. how about that?

Next four years will be entertaining..

SIgned, the Racist MUTT.. Ha.. I ain't predujiced? THE man is keeping the black man down.. but now the black man is the man.. HA.. who is to blame now? Whitie?



David --

I want you to be there with me on Election Night when the results come in.

We're planning a big event that will include tens of thousands of supporters in Grant Park in downtown Chicago.

We're saving some of the best seats in the house for 5 people who have given to the campaign before -- and who decide to make a donation one last time before Sunday at midnight.

If you're selected, you can bring a guest, and we'll fly you in and put you up in a hotel for the night. You'll go backstage at the big event and -- no matter what happens -- you'll have a front row seat to history as we celebrate the supporters who got us over the finish line.

Any donation counts -- whatever you can afford. Show your support at this crucial time with a donation of $5 or more, and you could join me on Election Night:

https://donate.barackobama.com/frontrow (http://www.democrats.org/page/m2/4052b139/5ea63e2/50aa9185/74b97fed/1243029840/VEsE/)

This movement for change has been a testament to the power of ordinary Americans coming together to achieve extraordinary things.

I look forward to having you there on Election Night.

Thank you,

Barack

Butch Moses
01-20-2009, 12:05 AM
I read this thread. I thought seriously about posting. Then, I remembered my latest hope for the future. My sixth grandchild was born on Friday night, Max. These kids are going to do what we never quite could do. They are the future while we rattle our sabres, and become what we hated in our youth. Peace, Love.

HawkJET
01-20-2009, 12:11 AM
It is no wonder the world is in such mess. If the middle east were run by adults there would be peace. If the US had been run by adults, we would not be in the sorry shape we are in now. If the stock market were inhabited by adults, we would still have an economy. If the Republican party were inhabited by adults, I would still be one.

Look at how you are being such children. You don't give a SH*T about the state of the world OR making something work! ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS BE RIGHT! Never mind if it will forward anything useful.

I have learned that in life, I am the kind of person that I surround myself with. That is why I am no longer registered as a Republican. They seem to need to GROW UP! Well I don't want to be a child. Been there - Done that!

I joined this group a few days ago to see if I can contribute. I have 35 years as a tool and die maker and mechanical engineer. It now appears to be full of people that I don't care to be associated with. I have a lot to contribute but you guys are so bigoted and self-righteous, you can't even see that everyone you exclude in this way has an affect on you.

Frankly, I'm disgusted! Guys, GROW UP!!

keelan
01-20-2009, 12:18 AM
Who cares where the dude was born? If you go back a couple generations in the family trees of most Americans, guess what you'll find? I can't believe that in a country mostly inhabited by the ancestors of immigrants, people would even raise this argument.

Doc Nickel
01-20-2009, 01:18 AM
It took 8 plus years to get into this pickle and it will take a while to get us out.

-Just out of curiosity, what sort of "pickle" are we in?

I keep having people tell me things are so bad, conditions are terrible, this is collapsing, that other thing is failing, etc.

The Iraq War? We've fought- and won- wars before, and they haven't ruined us yet. By all metrics, the conditions in Iraq are good to very good and improving. Al-Quida's back is largely broken, and Iraq is, at least for the moment, on it's way towards being a functional democracy.

The banks? Banks have failed before. No one remembers the Savings & Loan failures of the late eighties?

The economy? We've been in recessions and even depressions before- the dot-com bubble, the slowdown of the early ninties, the recession during Reagan's first term, the famous 1929 depression... We've survived them, we'll survive this one.

The Big Three tanking? Automakers have tanked before, and they will again. Studebaker, Tucker, Kaiser, Diamond REO, Nash, AMC, Hudson, Hupmobile, Checker, Packard, Willys, Duesenberg... They're factories that make products people want to buy. If people don't want to buy them, they either go belly up or they start making stuff people will buy. The only reason they're getting bailed out is because of the unions, a large and relatively powerful voting bloc.

People are losing jobs? People have lost jobs even in booming economies. The overall number of available jobs is worrying, but what's more worrying is the government trying to replace those private jobs with more public/government jobs.

So what else is there? I fully admit conditions aren't great, and money isn't falling freely from the sky as it did at the height of the dot-com boom, for example, but that's not entirely a bad thing.

We've become a throwaway society, obsessed with the idea of trinkets and toys (iPods, DVD players, laptops, cell phones, ad nauseum) and the further idea they're cheap enough to completely replace every three to six months as some new one comes along.

We're living on credit, can't keep our bills paid, don't have any savings. Now, people are driving less, keeping cars longer, not trading out phones and computers quite as much, buying fewer trinkets (most of that cash goes to China anyway) and starting to save more. They're no longer buying houses larger than they can afford and borrowing less.

Yes, there's a negative side to most of that- especially to the sellers of the trinkets and the lenders of the imflated mortages- but why is any of it a bad thing overall?

Where's the "pickle" I keep being told we're in? Because I recall being similar "pickles" before, and we have always come out of them before- and almost always without government bailouts or the largest congressional spending spree in history.

Doc.

Tinkerer
01-20-2009, 02:21 AM
Doc.

This is a Jerkins Pickles.

Sure banks used to fail.. now they're to BIG to fail. So they reach into the pickle barrel.

Yep in the old days auto makers closed up... now they prop them up with the pickle barrel. Classic.

So you see it's a whole new kinda pickle we're in. But in the end it's all Kosher cause the Gov. says so.;)

Doc Nickel
01-20-2009, 02:40 AM
But in the end it's all Kosher cause the Gov. says so.

-Just for that, I'm sending you to bed without supper. :D

I just read yet another editorial saying that Obama gives us "hope"- with the unspoken but clear presumption that Bush did not give anyone hope.

And I guess that's one of the main things I dislike about Obama- Personally, I think he's okay on a personal level, and I actually do think he'll try very hard to do what he thinks is right for the US.

The problem is simply the fact that what he thinks is "right" is virtually guaranteed not to be. We know "universal" health care- actually socialized medicine- doesn't work. Or at least nowhere near as well as people think it does or hope it will. We only have to look at Canada and Britain to see that.

Massive taxes to pay for it, poor, assembly-line service, long waits. This is a good thing?

We know this "bailout" won't work. If GM is in trouble because no one's buying their cars, and their operating costs are too high, then a couple extra bucketfuls of cash won't do anything but slightly delay the inevitable.

I don't know enough about the big banks to say- but I do know they've already blown through 350 billion dollars- to no perceptible effect- and are back asking for more.

We know he won't persecute the jihadis when it becomes necessary- and a large part of why they committed 9/11/01 was that they believed they could strike with impunity, as they had the first time they bombed the WTC, and the USS Cole, and the Marine Barracks, etc. They also watched Clinton ignore everything Saddam did- including trying almost daily to shoot down our planes enforcing the no-fly zones, and watched as Saddam ignored, without any repercussions, over a dozen UN Resolutions.

They're scattered and disorganized as we speak. But if we let up for even just a few months, they can reorganize- and when they do, more innocent civillians will die.

No, Mr. Obama may indeed think he's doing right, and in some case he may well accomplish good things. But history has already proven that much of what he'll try to do, is the exactly wrong tack to take.

Doc.

malbenbut
01-20-2009, 02:44 AM
To bring back this thread back to an engineering topic-----
YOU ARE ALL GOING TO BE SCREWED IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
MBB

.RC.
01-20-2009, 03:07 AM
YOU ARE ALL GOING TO BE SCREWED IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
MBB

Will that be metric or imperial screws???


I have no idea of his policies, but I am amused by all the hoo haa and celebrations over someone entering a four year job contract.. I am pretty sure his **** stinks just as much as mine does...

barts
01-20-2009, 03:26 AM
We know "universal" health care- actually socialized medicine- doesn't work. Or at least nowhere near as well as people think it does or hope it will. We only have to look at Canada and Britain to see that.


So health care in Canada, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, France, etc doesn't work? Because those people don't lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs? Because most everyone has access to competent care?

The health care system in this country happens to work for me and my family today... but that's not good enough. It also needs to work for my neighbors, my co-workers who will lose their jobs this week, my kids when they're no longer covered through my work, the folks working part time in this sucky economy... it needs to work for everyone. And right now it doesn't... and we can and will fix it so it does.

"Socialized medicine"? How about Universal Insurance?

dp
01-20-2009, 03:41 AM
I remember when health care was a service you paid for. I don't remember when it became a right. Maybe it never did and some of us just think it did.

Is Universal Insurance like a lottery nobody ever loses?

barts
01-20-2009, 04:06 AM
I remember when health care was a service you paid for. I don't remember when it became a right. Maybe it never did and some of us just think it did.

Is Universal Insurance like a lottery nobody ever loses?

Do you pay for police on a per-instance basis (other than ticket, heh)? Fire? Those services are seen as part of living in a civilized society; you don't get denied help because you haven't paid your 911 tax. We do pay for police and fire protection, and we would pay for "health protection" as well.

Why isn't health care more like police and fire?

- Bart

dan s
01-20-2009, 04:13 AM
I remember when health care was a service you paid for. I don't remember when it became a right. Maybe it never did and some of us just think it did.

what do you expect, when most of the "ruling generation" is a bunch of over indulged, self absorbed baby boomers. :D:D

dan s
01-20-2009, 04:17 AM
Why isn't health care more like police and fire?

Because the GD baby boomers would screw the rest of us. Don't believe me, watch some prime time tv and count how many pills they have out for that age group.

I can see the line forming now for government issued Viagra.

Peter N
01-20-2009, 04:18 AM
Now if you can just get your new President to completely blank our PM, and let a few people overhear him discreetly calling Gordon Brown a moron, you would be doing us a BIG favour :D :D

Whatever your views and party politics, I wish you all good luck for the new Presidential era.

Peter

John Stevenson
01-20-2009, 04:28 AM
Well i think this thread has gone completely off topic - it's still my birthday after all...................

.

oldtiffie
01-20-2009, 04:41 AM
Many happy returns of the day John.

And please, please, no pics of you in your birthday suit.

That isn't what I was meant when I was going to say that you should either have the (w??)hole day off or have it off for the hole day.

I hope it blows your socks off!!

The only problem I can see is if your are attracted to Alistair in his kilt sans anything under it.

In that case, keep wearing at least one sock.

He deserves it after posting this thread!!!

Doc Nickel
01-20-2009, 04:46 AM
So health care in Canada, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, France, etc doesn't work?

-Read the quote again. I said it doesn't work as well as they (it's proponents) say it will or hope it will. The Scandanavian systems, as I seem to recall from just a month or two ago, are in dire straits thanks to the crashing oil prices, since said health care is/was state-subsidized.

California is, as we speak, very nearly bankrupt. Would you rather handle your own health insurance (or have it through a private business) or would you rather pay massive amounts of taxes (the areas you listed average over 50%) only to have the State (or Feds) squander it and then come up broke when you need that appendectomy?

Or maybe hope the State or Feds don't handle it more like Social Security- where the money you pay into the system gets spent, and an IOU gets put into the SS account in it's stead.


Because those people don't lose their health insurance when they lose their jobs? Because most everyone has access to competent care?

-As DP noted, when did health care become a right? I, too, recall when you paid for a service you wanted, and didn't pay for one you didn't want. It's entirely possible as it is, today, to have private health insurance policies, just as one has private, personal auto insurance policies. Why is it a mandate of the State to keep you healthy?

And besides which, it's a short step between the State paying for your health care, and the State dictating your lifestyle. We already have New York banning "trans fats", California banning smoking even outside, and the beginnings of lawsuits accusing fast-food joints of making people fat.

The State already tells us how fast we can drive, how old we have to be to buy alcohol, when and where we have to wear a helmet, when and where we have to wear a life vest, and requires us to wear a seat belt.

I do not wish that State to start telling me I can't eat salty food, to limit my sugar intake, to put me on a weight-regulation program (with the penalty of fines or worse) or whatever else it mandates to keep me healthy so it can minimize how much it pays for my health care.


[...]it needs to work for everyone.

-Why? Again, I don't recall heath care being a right. What next, the right to internet access? Government-supplied laoptops and bandwidth! Oh, but you can't view those sites the Government deems inappropriate, which includes, besides porn and gambling, those sites that teach people how to make bombs or how to modify firearms. The right to have a car? Free "Smart" cars for everyone! Governed to 45 MPH, and they only run on subsidized biodiesel, and if you travel more than 200 miles per month, you're taxed at a higehr consumption rate.

How about the right to have a TV? Free government Televisions! They only get OCNN, the 24-hour Obama Cable News Network, but hey, they're free!


"Socialized medicine"? How about Universal Insurance?

-"Universal" means I pay for it whether I want it or not, whether I use it or not. Why not leave it where it is now? I'll pay for it if I want it, or not if I don't. Your taxes won't go up, I can choose my health care provider- it's not some government cattle-chute office- and even switch providers if I prefer.

You're going to pay for it either way. Why not keep it as it is, where you have choices and competition, rather than mandated government flunkies with a massive caseload and the bedside manner of the DMV on a Friday afternoon?

Doc.

Davek0974
01-20-2009, 05:19 AM
We know "universal" health care- actually socialized medicine- doesn't work. Or at least nowhere near as well as people think it does or hope it will. We only have to look at Canada and Britain to see that.

Massive taxes to pay for it, poor, assembly-line service, long waits. This is a good thing?

Amen to that!


We know this "bailout" won't work. If GM is in trouble because no one's buying their cars, and their operating costs are too high, then a couple extra bucketfuls of cash won't do anything but slightly delay the inevitable.

I believe we tried that with Rover over here, it still failed and failed miserably too. Bail-outs don't work, it just makes it appear that help is at hand. If the apple core is rotten, it will always fail in the end.

I'm not qualified to buy into this thread but in my own way I hope Obama does some good, he has a big task ahead.

Dave

Davek0974
01-20-2009, 05:31 AM
Now if you can just get your new President to completely blank our PM, and let a few people overhear him discreetly calling Gordon Brown a moron, you would be doing us a BIG favour

Now that would be interesting :)
It would be no lie, just telling it like it is :)

If our NHS was private, we wouldn't be sinking in a sea of people that only come here because of our free health services and lax attitude to benefits. It's like leaving a bag of cash on the table at a thieves convention, it's a free-for-all and we're the ones who are paying dearly for it.

It used to work reasonably well but not anymore.

speedy
01-20-2009, 06:15 AM
Good luck with the new one (just like the old one?)

Re: Dave Lettermans "famous presidential speeches"; he is is going to be buggered now that GW is goneski. Reruns anyone?

Doc Nickel
01-20-2009, 06:34 AM
I'm not qualified to buy into this thread but in my own way I hope Obama does some good, he has a big task ahead.

-Don't get me wrong. I'm not like a lot of "lefties" with a bad case of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) where I'll automatically oppose anything and everything Obama does someply because he's a Democrat.

It's actually kind of hilarious to watch- four months ago, we had to "Close Guantanamo Now!" when it was under Bush's watch. Now that it's a Dem problem, well, let's stop and think about this some. We can't just "close" it, now can we? It's not that easy!

Ditto the Iraq War; Dems of all stripes yelled and screamed that we had to pull out as soon as possible, virtually demanded that Obama pull out within 100 days. Now that a Dem is in charge, again, hey, we need to stop and think about this. We can't just pull out now, that'll cause untold problems! We need a carefully-calculated withdrawl plan... you know, one that winds up pretty much exactly like Bush's, and is headed by a leftover Bush apointee, but since Obama agrees to it, it's okay now. We can stay in a little while longer now...

But while I might poke fun, as I said, I won't automatically oppose, as the left did to Bush. I disagree that Guantanamo needs to be closed, I disagree that we need to pull troops out of Iraq (and I know more than a few people that have either been over there or are there now) and I strongly disagree that we need a trillion-dollar "stimulus" package.

I don't oppose those things because Obama's a Democrat, I oppose them because I believe they're wrong. Jut as I opposed Bush over halting federal funding of stem-cell research, among other things.

I'm actually encouraged by some of Obama's actions- as above, his refusal to instantly close Gitmo just because his groupies want him to, and his deferring to Bush's General who's handling Iraq, on the issue of the withdrawl timetable.

I also like the fact he's telling people the truth- that recovery from this recession will take time. I don't like the fact he's going to try and spend our way out of debt, or that a big chunk of that spending is going to be on pork-laden and worthless make-work projects, or that he's very probably admitting that truth because his rock-star groupies think he's the Second Coming and can just wave his magic wand to cure all these ills and solve all these problems.


Re: Dave Lettermans "famous presidential speeches"; he is is going to be buggered now that GW is goneski. Reruns anyone?

-Leno and Letterman were still making jokes about Clinton's womanizing well into 2002, which was about when I stopped watching broadcast TV on a regular basis.

Due to Obama's race, the comedians will be tiptoeing around making jokes about him for quite a while, so you'll still be hearing Bush jokes for at least another year, maybe two.

Doc.

chief
01-20-2009, 06:36 AM
Higher taxes, more welfare, unchecked illegal immigrant, less freedom and extreme criticism of anyone who disagrees with the cult worship. Most cult worshipper falsely think that they will be getting something for nothing, not realizing that for every "free" nickel they get, they'll pay 1$ more in taxes.
Or they believe that they are going to really stick to rich people and big business, too stupid to undestand that big business pays their salary.
It's amazing that people are buying into this BS. The media is spinning these bogus stories to gain sympathy for this sociailist buffoon and his crimminal cronies. What's changed? It's the clintons all over again with a token negro
in the front seat.
No need to waste your time by calling me a racist, I don't suffer from political correctness or white guilt.

Dawai
01-20-2009, 08:37 AM
How long has American Liberties been eroding? Well.. Lets see.. They say Lincoln had no right to stop the southern states from leaving the Union, it was Local law, state law, national law. Was it right, no, it brought a whole world of crap upon the Southereners. Before then, all the blood and courage that built this country is needing a few payments of children and soldiers willing to DIE for it's return.

Lets look beyond that.. Allodial title to land.. back when Americans actually owned what they worked and paid for.. It was optioned that allodial title made each man a legal owner of property, be it land, carriages, horses or (bad news) slaves, white or black. Each American was Ceasar in his own right, a King or prince. He ruled his property as he saw fit to his judgement and the laws of the country.

NOW, you can not own land, you are granted DEED to the property by the state who charges you to live on it. We had it better than the British "SUBJECTS" and the Subjects and serfs of other countrys ruled by it's government. EACH man had god given rights to rule the government which was "HIS VOICE".

NOW, your and My voices said "NO bailout" and yet they did anyways. President Bush, well you say he has been a bad one.. how about this.. Agreements to give up the soveignty of the United States, agreements starting the North American UNION were signed into being. Illegally.. LAWS writ stating it is OKAY to use US troops against US citizens.. and the 105th started training to do just that, Against US, the Owners of the government.

BUT see, it all has been a test, FROM the Massacre and lies surrounding Waco, when all you sat on your duffs and Allowed a few NUTcases to be surrounded and murdered, on national Television.. LISTEN To this, why, to save the Children they used bombs and tear gas.. HUH?

MUSHROOMS.. all of you.. including the Brits and Canucks.. listen to the crap they are feeding you.

Research Fema Coffins, there are 500,000 in Atlanta Ga alone..
Research Fema Prisons, I'd say these are for you guys when you wake up and decide to change the government in power.
Research the wording in the Terrorists bills GW Bush signed into effect.

What will change things? for a few million Americans to walk, unarmed into the US Captial, lay hands on the Lazy, never had a JOB people running our country and THROW them onto a rail, tar, feather them and run them out of that town..

Blowing up a Federal building such as Timothy McVeigh did only makes you a monster.. IT IS WRONG.. It will take GUTS To change things.. and I am too old, sick and fat to do it, I would just grease the tank tracks.

Lets All join the Million Man March. Let them know REAL CHANGE is coming back to America.. Look out thou, cause the existing goverment will bring in outsiders if it looks like they are losing.. Imagine getting machinegunned by Chinese or Turkish troops during a peaceful (ha) march..

Who is actually in Charge of America, the government exists because the PEOPLE say it can.