Probotix CNC Router

[gcude]

The December issue of "Nuts and Volts" magazine has an article/review on the Probotix Fireball V90 CNC Router kit. This looks interesting to me for a starter intro to CNC. Anyone have one of these kits or one similar that they can recommend?

[cncmaster]

Make up your own mind but this is my experience, the quotes are from the person selling and profiting from them.

Personally I'd think twice about ordering a Fireball CNC as they seem to have supply problems and unable to ship in a reasonable time unless "whenever it gets there" is a reasonable time for you.

This is also followed with poor attitude toward customers.

If you ask about your order it will be cancelled, and the owner LEN will call you names on the public forum because you don't understand what a favor he is doing for you be making you such a machine.

Exact quote in public forum from Len

"I would totally believe the “troll alert”, but he did pay for a machine, so now I think he is just someone who wants to be a trouble maker. Frankly, I am not going to put my blood and sweat into a product to sell to someone like that. You are right, I don’t have patience for him. His very entry into my world was at the wrong angle.
"

As long as LEN is around stay away or order at your own risk.

If you complain on their forum it will be removed, who knows what problems they have since they get removed.

If he doesn't have patience for a paying customer that asked about their order I can't imagine what happens if you have a problem with what you get.

This is my experience and hopefully help you decide on your purchase.

[gcude]

That's unfortunate.

I've seen other companies that had promising products that suffered from supply and/or communication problems. Hope they get things sorted out and in order quickly, while they have a little media buzz.

Could you provide a link, to the forum with discussions on their product(s).

Thanks for the heads-up.

[cncmaster]

I would but you know what ? They deleted all my posts, made up their own making it look like they did what was right instead of what happened.

I am really worried about them, they are so defensive about my posting of what happened, they emailed me tonight because they saw my post on another forum, telling me I have no business posting my experience, it could effect their right to have a business.

Seems to me they got in over their heads, can't do what was promised and looking for someone to take it out on, t just happened to be me.

I wish I could post it all for you, I'm tired of talking about it, it should have never happened. I hope they learn to treat their customers better but after the last email I'd say all they know how to do is point fingers at others when problems arise.

[cncmaster]

They even erased my message were I posted their shipping times from their website asking to explain why I thought what I thought was wrong about when I should receive anything.

That really blew my socks off.

[sansbury]

The Fireball has always looked like 99% shiny packaging and 1% machine to me. Considering the price I think it is a terrible deal. You can get a real bench mill that is the basis of so much more for the same price.

If you want to learn CNC, start by building a "McWire" mill from the guide on Instructables.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/

Yes, it is a total toy, but it will teach you all the basics of a true CNC milling robot. The money you spend will be saved 2-3x over in the mistakes you don't make on your first real project. Conceptually a giant machining center is much the same thing just with larger/more precise components used in the assembly. Then, look at the plans for the "Joe's CNC 2006" wood router. You can probably build it for considerably less than the Fireball machine and it will do a lot more.

My rule is that the flashier the website/packaging of the thing, the worse it is. Most of the good deals in this hobby come from guys who care a lot more about metal and machinery than they do about web design or cute names. Gecko is a conspicuous exception. Another thing is that there are very few innovators out there. There are a lot of amateurs who claim to have built something very special when most of this stuff is just borrowing from design ideas out there for decades. Even Joe of Joe's CNC just borrowed a bunch of ideas other guys had done a hundred times before and put them into a well-documented plan set that he gave away free online.

[gcude]

Those two projects look like what I need to get started. I'm now looking forward to collecting my parts to build the "McWire". I already have most of the parts on-hand except for bearings and motors.

Thanks for the link to Tom McWire's site and the info about Joe's 2006 build !!!

[John Stevenson]

Sansbury,

Thanks for that link to Instructables.

It's fantastic, very basic and aimed at beginners but for many it's a start point. Not everyone can mange / afford a full sized expensive machine and this at least gets them a start on the CNC ladder.

I'm passing this link on to our local schools program in the hopes it may generate some interest.

.

[sansbury]

There used to be a fellow named John Kleinbauer who started selling plans for DIY CNC machines in the late 90s. He's still around but doesn't seem to be online anymore. All of his designs were meant to be buildable with typical low-precision garage tools. I learned this by building his "Brute" machine which is a better version of the McWire.

The secret was that he built the machine ways from aluminum channel used for making commercial windows. Most glass shops will give you cutoffs cheap or free. This makes for a more precise and rigid version of the McWire, though the terms are relative. I still have it sitting here waiting for a rebuild now that I have machine tools. Done right it is good to .001" and makes a solid machine for routing and drilling PCBs or very light carving.

The Joe's CNC machine is largely derived from one of John's machines--he was one of the first to use the gas pipe+skate bearings method of constructing linear ways. The difference between them is that John was a crank who would only sell plans to US/Can customers if you mailed him a check, while Joe gave his plans away for free. In the early 2000's John was making over $15k/year selling plans. These days I think if you invent something popular enough like that it's probably a matter of time before someone puts up a free planset. John was also enormously resistant to alternative ideas. He wouldn't touch PayPal or sell plans electronically since he was afraid they'd get pirated. In the end it led to the same place.

If you think you're going to move to the Joe's machine right away, my suggestion would be to call Gecko and see if they still have the special on the G540 drive. They had some surplus they were selling for $225 instead of $300 which is a killer deal. You have to call, it's not on their website. The G540 will grow into just about any project you'll do up to a benchtop mill or wood router. Otherwise, the HobbyCNC board is under $100 and does a very decent job on smaller machines.

[cncmaster]

Stay as far away from probotix as you can. They have supply problems and do not deliver like they say on their website.

It says 24 - 48 hours shipping time on in stock items on their website, when 17 days went by I asked on their message board if they were a fly by night company or if they could produce the product.

This led to them calling me profanity, refunding my money, banning me from the message board while they posted negative things about me so I couldn't respond to them. Then they posted my real name on forums across the internet.

Spend your money with someone that wants your business not someone that wants to pick a fight.

I have receipts and emails to back up everything I say.

Think about before you order from probotix.

[timwat]

I had problems too, with the probotix electronics and their fireball v90, very disappointed, and upset at myself for not taking all the complaints or reviews about their product seriously, the machine could not cut without bad chatter and very un-accurate,

The machine looks good in the pictures, but most of it is made from painted wood and plastic drainpipes, after about a month, I relized I wasn't getting my moneyback, and it was a big mistake

The z driver fried and was eventually replaced by probotix, a week after I changed the z driver, the y drive failed,

Whether it was bad luck or a lemon product, bad design, I know when enough is enough, not worth having a heartattack over, salvaged what I could from it, and moved on to the next project, just 1000 dollars poorer, and a little wiser.:)

[Rustybolt]

I just visited their website. For that kind of money you could build the same thing out of 8020 extrusions and still be ahead of the game. Use acme screws instead of ballscrews and save more.
MDF is for store fixtures that are going to get laminated. Not machines.

[timwat]

I just visited their website. For that kind of money you could build the same thing out of 8020 extrusions and still be ahead of the game. Use acme screws instead of ballscrews and save more.
MDF is for store fixtures that are going to get laminated. Not machines.


Thanks, Rusty, lesson learned, I will take the time to build from scratch this time around, I haven'nt given up even with this setback, and am determined to start cutting.

[Rustybolt]

Tim, I chased my tail for a good long while 'till I said screw it and jumped in. There are a lot of ways to do it on a budget. There are guys here on this site that are very knowledgable as well as CNC Zone.

Keep us posted.

[sansbury]

There's nothing wrong with building a wood router from MDF. No, it's not as good as 80/20, but it is a lot cheaper and easier for someone whose background is mostly woodwork. MDF is cheap and the mechanical and electrical parts can all be kept if you decide to build an 80/20 frame later on.

The other thing I'll say is that the Gecko G340 driver setup is the single best deal in the entire DIY CNC mess of a hobby. I see more projects go off the rails because of low-quality drivers, easy-to-make wiring mistakes, etc., not to mention that wiring up a drive system from components always takes ten times longer than you expect. I don't think Gecko's other components are the be-all-end-all some people make them out to be, but for entry/mid-level home CNC projects the G340 is a great deal.

[Rustybolt]

If it's all you have(MDF) then that's what you use. I have a good friend that does commercial fixtures from MDf and his biggest complaint is moisture absorbtion, A big deal here in the midwest where there is a lot of humidity in the warmer months. On a tabletop CNC router, there is enough scrap metal out in the world right now that prices have come down.
I agree with Gecko, I haven't used their 340s but the products I've used from them(201s) are absolutely reliable. There are some cheaper chinese ones out there that I'm going to give a try in my next project. Which is, coincedentally ,a tabletop router.
Keling make some nice powerful size 23 motors that are a good bargain.
Back to my original point.
If this supplier can't make the delivery on time and can't or won't support his product then for not much more money you could build one yourself and learn a lot in the bargain. The learning part is the important part.

[John Stevenson]

Actually it's 540's

.

[Rustybolt]

whatever. Jeesh John is that all you have to do today? Correct my mistakes?

Hope you're having a good Easter holiday and the terrorist thugs haven't gone throught with their Easter Sunday plans.

[sansbury]

Actually it's 540's

.

Duh, right. I was only off by a G200 though.

I've never had problems with MDF absorbing water, I just put a few coats of latex primer on it after cutting and drilling as necessary. Others have put truck bed liner paint on it to make coolant enclosures. The worst part about MDF is the dust you get when cutting it. If you're cutting a lot a dust mask is in order. Other than that it's great stuff.

PVC sheet is nice to work with too. It cuts with woodworking tools but has more density so it can take threads a lot better, but it's not as pricey as acetal.