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loosewatches
01-24-2009, 04:39 PM
Howdy folks. I'm wondering if anyone knows about casting resins. I'm looking for a product that I can cast (in small amounts, maybe a pint at a time) and turn on my lathe. It needs to be clear and take a high polish. Strength isn't too big a factor, this is strictly ornamental. Essentially, I want to make some custom trim material for pipe making.

I've worked in machine shops where we turned only plastics (PTFE, PTFE Bronze, POM etc.) and I spent a little (key word, there) time in the casting department snooping around between shifts and asking questions, but that was a while ago. Basically, I know squat about plastics.

Does anyone actually know squat, or hopefully a bit more, about this stuff?

Also, just out of curiosity, does anyone know about Tsuishu?
(Here's what I do know about it...two whole sentences worth. It's a time consuming process of building up layers of lacquer paint to form a thick enough piece to be used as a material. It looks really bitchin.)
Those of you familiar with a paint booth has seen something similar when you knock the paint build up off, say your mixing table or the walls of the booth.
There are other forms of tsuishu, I think, but this is the one I'm interested in.

I've googled and goggled, but I'm still lost.
Any thoughts?

thanks,
-loose

barts
01-24-2009, 05:14 PM
Howdy folks. I'm wondering if anyone knows about casting resins. I'm looking for a product that I can cast (in small amounts, maybe a pint at a time) and turn on my lathe. It needs to be clear and take a high polish. Strength isn't too big a factor, this is strictly ornamental. Essentially, I want to make some custom trim material for pipe making.

I've worked in machine shops where we turned only plastics (PTFE, PTFE Bronze, POM etc.) and I spent a little (key word, there) time in the casting department snooping around between shifts and asking questions, but that was a while ago. Basically, I know squat about plastics.

Does anyone actually know squat, or hopefully a bit more, about this stuff?

Also, just out of curiosity, does anyone know about Tsuishu?
(Here's what I do know about it...two whole sentences worth. It's a time consuming process of building up layers of lacquer paint to form a thick enough piece to be used as a material. It looks really bitchin.)
Those of you familiar with a paint booth has seen something similar when you knock the paint build up off, say your mixing table or the walls of the booth.
There are other forms of tsuishu, I think, but this is the one I'm interested in.

I've googled and goggled, but I'm still lost.
Any thoughts?

thanks,
-loose


Check out this discussion:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167529

and the link therein...

- Bart

PTSideshow
01-24-2009, 07:42 PM
Check here, they will probably have what your looking for. http://www.smooth-on.com/
or here http://www.freemansupply.com/index.htm great video's.
and here is their site for hobbyist http://www.hobbycast.net/video.htm

There are other forms of tsuishu that isn't correct. Tsuishu is translated literally "piled up red" it is lacquer from the Chinese lac tree the red is ground mercury ore "Cinnabar"
From 30 coats for inr§ to 135 coats for the traditional vases and snuff bottles. each thin layer has to dry,then polished to a glassy smoothness so the next coat can be adhered.
Other colors have different names Black is Tsuikoku, shades of ochre,tan or yellow is Tsui§ and Green has no name but is called midori no tsuishu Literally "green tsuishu"

The best book available on the subject is:
The INRŇ Handbook, stufdies of Netsuke, Inr§ and Lacquer
By Raymond Bushell
ISBN 0-8348-0135-3
Weatherhill publishers
ę1979 it is in it's 3rd printing 2002

It retails for $75.00 US you can try Powells http://www.powells.com/ they currently have a number of used copies.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Art%20work/DSCF9735.jpg
Two fake Cinnabar snuff bottles out of Hong Kong from the 70's

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Art%20work/DSCF9736.jpg

The inside is a bottle shape plug placed in a mold and the outside layer of material is pressed onto it. Then brass washers are glued on to make a bad fake. The look is muddied or not crisp in the detail.

PTSideshow
01-24-2009, 07:47 PM
Here are two real lacquerware small vases fron mainland china from the 70's.
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Art%20work/DSCF9737.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Art%20work/DSCF9739.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Art%20work/DSCF9740.jpg
Enameled brass base vase that the layers are painted on and then carved.

Try this for a start http://www.google.com/search?q=Cinnabar+carving&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

tony ennis
01-24-2009, 07:58 PM
The dust from your garden-variety casting resin can be very irritating. If you develop an allergy (?) (become hypersensitive) to it, you're done - you can't touch it any more.

The clear resins are a little different. They require pressure casting for a good result. I don't know about their machinability.

Also try the Alumilite company.

Alumilite and Smooth-on are the 800lb gorillas.

loosewatches
01-24-2009, 08:36 PM
Thanks guys....

Barts- Y'know, I didn't even think to check the PM forum- duh!- thanks, that's a good link therein. Lots of info there. I may have to empty my Brain-cache to store all that:D

PTSideshow..That is some nice stuff. That is the only form of Tsuishu I've really been able to get information about. I first heard the term in the pipe making world where a guy named Smio Satou uses what he refers to as tsuishu as an embellishment, but it is not painted on.... I've seen his pipes and this stuff is a different bird altogether. Looks nice, though.
Here's a link I just found, (I hope its ok to post the link, the site owner asked people not to use the pictures, but didn't mention the link itself.)
scroll down about a third of a page:

http://home.comcast.net/~student_of_pipes/exhibits/japan07/page_06.htm

toni ennis- I had heard (and promptly forgotten) about the allergies thing. I don't need to get any 'permanent allergy' to a material. About 70% of my waking hours are spent in one shop or another----hate to think I could become allergic to it!:eek:

looks like I need to build a vacuum chamber.....


thanks all, for the links
-loose

PTSideshow
01-24-2009, 09:23 PM
Its a case of the term being co-opted by other crafts to describe some thing that he is one of the only people doing it.
The picture and the guys description doesn't match up. As it looks like the striped section is the same layer as the brier of the pipe.

What it looks like is he stripes it and then sands after it is dry. Unless he applies each color to the pipe base each time and all colors are considered a layer. The explanation and the color patterns wouldn't be like that in a true form of the piled upon (Tsuishu).

There is a form called guri which is a carved lacquer built up by alternating layers of color. Traditionally two colors built up and then carved in scrolls in deep V grooves.

What I think this is is a lack of a good way to translate the process. Since he is shown mixing and using his on lacquer.
I think that the technique he is using would be more layered painting with colored lacquer. As there maybe some cutting of grooves, or patterns in the material. It would loosely called tsuishu for the lack of a better term.

From my readings of the mentioned book, there are hundreds of lacquer application styles and techniques, along with which step proceeds which step changes what it is called.

I do recommend the book as Mr. Bushell is a world's authority on the subject and has studied at the side of some of the great living lacquer artists today. He is also the only Westerner to have two of his books published in Japanese with the a fore mentioned one being published next.
:D