Thought most of the guys on here would enjoy this...
OT: Soviet T-34 recovered in Estonia....
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Great story! The T-34 was probably the best tank fielded in World War II.
Remarkable condition (no rust) considering it's been at the bottom of a lake for 50 years."Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."
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There was a great, but short-lived series on the Military Channel called "Tank Overhaul" -- which chronicled several teams who find and restore WW II tanks.
One episode was about a Panther that had been driven into a lake in Poland, and then scuttled. Even discounting the blast damage to the turret, it was in a lot worse condition that this T-34:
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."
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There's an interesting book out about world war 2 tanks. I wish I could remember the name, but I don't. It was written by a man who worked as an engineer in the tank corps, and it shows his perspectives.
Some of the interesting tidbits I recall:
- The Tiger tank had an 8:1 kill ratio against Allied tanks. Unfortunately, it required 13x the resources for the Germans to build one compared to a Sherman. So by economics, it was a loser, but it sure took a lot of Allied lives.
- I forgot his exact stats on how many tanks were recovered and put back into action, but this was a huge advantage for us.
- If a tank had burned, they couldn't put it back into action. The reason? It took the hardening out of the armor, so it wasn't protected enough. Checking for burning was always the first thing the recovery crews did.
There was a lot else. If you see a recent book on WWII tank battles featuring an American author who was an engineer, that'll be the one.
Cheers,
BW---------------------------------------------------
http://www.cnccookbook.com/index.htm
Try G-Wizard Machinist's Calculator for free:
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Originally posted by BobWarfieldThere's an interesting book out about world war 2 tanks. I wish I could remember the name, but I don't. It was written by a man who worked as an engineer in the tank corps, and it shows his perspectives.
Some of the interesting tidbits I recall:
- The Tiger tank had an 8:1 kill ratio against Allied tanks. Unfortunately, it required 13x the resources for the Germans to build one compared to a Sherman. So by economics, it was a loser, but it sure took a lot of Allied lives.
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BW
One documentary had a former German officer telling the interviewer. "after he was captured he knew the war was over when one line of American tanks he saw stretched back to the horizon."I just need one more tool,just one!
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Originally posted by BobWarfieldThe Tiger tank had an 8:1 kill ratio against Allied tanks.
The Germans were terrified of the T-34, which is why they would capture them and re-mark them, as this one recovered in Estonia. You didn't see the Germans re-marking Shermans or Comets.
The T-34 was a technological marvel for it's time: it was the first tank with sloped armor. It had a larger gun with longer range, was a lot faster and more agile, and was more heavily armored than it's German counterpart (the Panzer IV). It had a very low profile, which allowed it to use terrain for cover.
The Germans designed the Panther (considered, alongside the T-34, as the "other" best tank of WW II) specifically to counter the T-34. The problem was that Hitler liked the heavy juggernaut tanks (Tiger and King Tiger), which drained resources from the Panther production. By the end of the war, ~6,000 Panthers were made (compared to 16,000 Panzer IV's), and only ~1300 Tigers and ~450 King Tigers. The German heavy tanks were scary machines if you approached them head-on, but they were very slow, had a very short range, and got stuck in the mud a lot:
Bob, that book sounds interested -- I'll have to get a copy...Last edited by lazlo; 01-24-2009, 11:37 PM."Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did."
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When the M4 Sherman was designed US Army tactical doctrine called for tanks to to support infantry not fight other tanks. Taking on enemy tanks was supposed to be the job of the tank destroyers such as the M18 Hellcat. Lightly armed in reality they were no match for German armour in a stand-up fight. That the M26 wasn't put into production and use sooner was criminial IMOForty plus years and I still have ten toes, ten fingers and both eyes. I must be doing something right.
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Nice link, neat recovery job.
There is a beach i visited over here that was used as a practice zone for landings, things went badly wrong and tanks ended up on the sea bed and people died. A gentleman wrote a book on his struggle to recover one of the shermans for a memorial piece. The amount of red-tape and hoops he had to jump through was ridiculous.
He made it in the end but it took years and piles of cash, it stands near the beach now on a plinth, very nicely done. Its in a far worse condition than that russian one, salt i guess is not so archival.
Here's a little link
Dave
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Originally posted by lazloAgainst British and American tanks, but that's because we built lousy tanks.
The Germans were terrified of the T-34, which is why they would capture them and re-mark them, as this one recovered in Estonia. You didn't see the Germans re-marking Shermans or Comets.
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Early Sherman models were prone to burning when struck by high velocity rounds. The Sherman gained grim nicknames like "Tommycooker" (by the Germans who referred to British soldiers as "Tommys"; a tommy cooker was a World War I era trench stove). With gallows humor, the British called them "Ronsons", after the cigarette lighter with the slogan "Lights up the first time, every time!", while Polish tankers referred to them as "The Burning Grave".
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Originally posted by x39Thought most of the guys on here would enjoy this...
http://www.12mbdragoons.com/panzer/- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Thank you to our families of soldiers, many of whom have given so much more then the rest of us for the Freedom we enjoy.
It is true, there is nothing free about freedom, don't be so quick to give it away.
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