Software Recommendations

[sselman]

I'm working on specifications for a members access 'DIY' shop that will include a heavy dose of 2D and 3D CNC equipment and I could use a little feedback. Here's a quick overview of our thinking and goals.

( 3D: mill, lathe, router, stereo-lithography printer; 2D: plasma cutter, laser cutter, vinyl cutter, ebroiderer. A water jet cutter is on the wishlist, but may not be in the startup budget.:) )

1. This is the software we will make available for general use in-shop to all members. Member skills will vary from hard core guys from our local personal robotics club, to non-techie gearheads, to artists, to your next door neighbor. We need to find the best possible balance between getting newbies over that initial hump, and providing useful and valuable tools for those who already know what they are doing. We don't expect to be able to teach your amish grandmother to use it, but our goal is to reach a point where most people can do something cool or fun in 2D with a minimum of training - and simple 3D with no more than one or two classes. More than one package for a purpose is an option, and perhaps a required one, but that leads to the second concern.

2. We will be teaching whatever primary package(s) we choose, so we will need to be able to get reasonably competent with them, and be able to find and establish good relationships with those qualified to teach it.

3. A good support network and self study path for motivated users should be available.

4. Cost is a factor for us in the beginning, but it is a business expense we are willing to shoulder if its appropriate.

5. Simple cross-applicability is a plus. The shop will also have a number of other non-cnc fabrication tools. If we can ease new users into the software by doing simpler scale drawings for other projects, that could be a fairly compelling feature.

In general, I gather that SolidWorks is generally considered to be the gold standard, with Pro-Engineer a close second - but both are priced accordingly. I've seen Rhino mentioned frequently in high end hobbyist and small business circles as a decent alternative while Alibre seems to be generally disliked. I have a long standing hatred of AutoDesk, so I'd rather not deal with them unless it's very, very compelling. VCAD has come up a few times, but it's not one I've ever used, and qCAD was not a very mature project last time I saw it, but that was v1.2, and its now on 2.8. Has anyone played with it recently? An open source option is certainly attractive to a start up - but not if its not at least a solid tool.

So, to get all the way back to the beginning, what are your opinions on what would make the most compelling toolset for you guys, and for those with no background in drafting or design? Is SolidWorks good enough to merit licensing for a teaching lab? Would it be a disservice to offer training on software most people will not be able to justify purchasing. Would it be more compelling to have one or two licenses for the high end packages available for skilled users to use, and to teach a simpler ( and less expensive ) package? Have we overlooked any major packages that we should be evaluating. Do you see great gaping holes in our logic? I know we can't be everything to everyone, but we'd like to get as close as we can.

Lastly, I _am_ doing research for a commercial venture. Even so, I'm pretty sure I'm not violating the usage terms. If I am, or if this kind of post bothers anyone, please let me know and I'll refrain from them in the future.

Many thanks,

Shane

[macona]

Were doing the same thing here in Portland at TechShop.

First the laser cutter, vinyl cutter, and 3d printer have their own software. There is no worries about that.

Software is tough though. There is solidworks. We managed to get in as a authorized teaching center somehow so we can get licenses relatively cheap. But at ~$5k a seat retail its not so good for you guys. A better choice might be Rhino or Alibre. Quite a bit cheaper. Note that solid works does not usually do what they did for us. Our Solidworks classes are $450.

Then you need to get that data into something the machine can do something with. Mastercam is as close to an industry standard as you can get, but at about $11k its way past your needs. Sheetcam is good for things like the plasma tables and is really cheap. The cnc router table we are looking at uses RhinoCAM.

Forget the waterjet. I dont think you realize what it takes to keep one running. This is not a machine you can teach to use in a short class. You really need trained operators for these things. Plus an average waterjet costs in the neighborhood of $70 per hour to run in just consumables and energy. You are talking 40 and 50 hp motors on pumps.

And waterjets are messy! They really should be in a building of their own. And there is maintenance too. Not cheap to maintain.

If you can keep work coming in from outside and ran production three shifts 24hrs a day it could be an investment.

-Jerry
Shop Foreman
Techshop Portland
http://portlandtechshop.com

[sselman]

Ahhhh, cool! Glad to hear you guys got off the ground! Last time I talked to Jim, everyone was still in a holding pattern. We're considering a TechShop franchise, but decided we should also do our homework on building it ourselves since they are stuck in limbo at the moment. My partner and I both have a background in software development, and saw quite a bit of opportunity to make some inroads with good support software and safety systems.

The WaterJet cutter was pretty much just a wishlist item. You're right that I had only done minimal research on them, but enough to know that it wouldn't be a member operated machine. Between that, and the price for entry, I knew I'd want to have a good idea what we could let people do with it , and how they would do it before spending the money.. just the logistics of handling any sort of media that you couldn't work with the other tools was enough to make me wince, and work on something else instead. Someday, though.... someday :rolleyes:

Rhino does seem to turn up a lot. I see it a lot in the shopBot forums. I worry about the assertions that it behaves more like a studio product than a drafting product, but that seems to be a fairly rare complaint, and since we are looking at establishing in an arts district - it may not be a terrible thing.

Teaching center is an interesting idea, and would fit in with some of our other goals here. If not SolidWorks, perhaps ProE or someone else. It's an avenue to explore.

I don't want to hijack the thread with unrelated stuff. Would you mind if I private messaged you with some questions about your experiences with TechShop?

- Shane

[macona]

Were pretty much doing our own thing separate from TechShop in Cali. Name is the same but we are going to be doing things our own way. Pretty much the same thing is happening at the Durham location.

You can PM me if you want.