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.RC.
02-01-2009, 05:48 AM
This subject has come up in a closed forum that I visit and since there are a few posters from Britain here is it as bad as what I have been reading..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7860593.stm

"Gordon Brown does not regret promising "British jobs for British workers", a No 10 spokesman has said, amid rising unrest about the use of foreign labour.

The PM's pledge, at the 2007 Labour conference, was attacked by critics as unwise and even illegal as European law opens UK jobs to all EU nationals."

With Britain's industrial base all but destroyed and now cheap foreign short term immigrants (from the EU) flocking into Britain sucking what wealth producing jobs Britain has left. Is Britain headed for disaster in the longer term?? As jobs get exported all over the place and workers in the lower paid service sector are all sourced from the eastern EU region..

Is the worst thing England did, joining the EU????

John Stevenson
02-01-2009, 06:00 AM
Possibly but to get a better world perspective you will have to ask the views of an Aboriginal in OZ and a Red Indian in America about immigrant labour.

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 06:21 AM
Or the Pom's after they sent their first lot here (convicts - them they didn't hang or keep in their own gaols) and the "Assisted-passage" second lot (we paid!!) in the 50's etc. half of whom whinged and whined about it here (the archetypal "Wingeing Pom") and always regretted coming or just wanted to "home" (we shoulda taken 'em up on it and paid to sent 'em "'ome"). The majority were OK (very). One "gift" they brought with 'em was the endless futile strikes, "go-slows", job budgets blown to smithereens and stoppages aka "The English Disease". Just about every Shop Steward was a Pom and then they took over the Unions. "More pay less work" was the mantra. No-body wanted to employ them.

I believe it was much the same in NZ.

Sound familiar?

But in all fairness, the vast majority of "better" ones seemed to sort the trouble-makers out. I wonder just how many did go back to the UK?

"Pom" was derived from "Pome" which stood for "Prisoner of Mother England" - so I guess that was us!! Convicts!!!

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 06:24 AM
Possibly but to get a better world perspective you will have to ask the views of an Aboriginal in OZ and a Red Indian in America about immigrant labour.

Yup - true. The "offenders", "invaders" and immigrants here in OZ were all or mostly Brits (aka "Poms").

Circlip
02-01-2009, 06:46 AM
Yes Tiffe, but WE had an EMPIRE :rolleyes: , what a waste of time that was. It's strange that the "Workers" at Immingham seem to think that this is a one way trade, they seem to have fogotten the "Auf Weidesein Pet" days of British workers taking "German" jobs??

English trade unionists over there? wait till you get the Scottish ones WE are inundated with.

Regards Ian

Davek0974
02-01-2009, 06:58 AM
I believe we are sailing straight for meltdown with a complete dick-head at the helm.

He is doing nothing to help the British workers or economy, pumping our money into banks is just pissing it up the wall. I really cant see any benefit coming out of Europe, but i do see lots of bad things, the least of which is the supposed 1m per head per day the EU costs to run!

We need tough immigration, enforced deportation, faster asylum turnround and so on.

Our wonderful PM should be spending money on manufacturing, we were a leading manufacturer once. He'll pump cash into the failing car companies or banks that MP's use but absolutely nothing into our failing steel manufacturing, the last 2,500 steel jobs that were lost recently were jobs lost forever, they will not be recalled as we are letting crap steel in from other sources when we should be using our own.

British jobs for British workers, YES, he said and wont stand by it, typical labour crap:- spend, tax, spin and outright lie to the people.

We need some decent opposition to push labour off the face of the earth for good.

Sorry for the blinkered rant but i'm just one of the long suffering overtaxed UK workers and this grinds my 'nads sore.

Dave

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the prompt Ian.

The worst of the ones we got were Scotch!!! (the trouble-makers) but some of them were English (mainly the whingers). Did I sin in lumping them all in as Pom's?

But I have to say that those that knuckled down and and made a bloody good go of it pretty well canceled out the "problems". Many were not only great Tradesman but great Apprentice teachers/mentors as well.

Mind you, I still cringe when I think of some of the stories about some of our "$hit-heads" and their carryings-on in London, Earls Court and just about everywhere else that had them inflicted (infected?) on them. Some of ours leave the Brit "Barmy Army" and "Lager Louts" in the shade at some sporting fixtures here.

I do sympathise with the genuine hard-ship cases in Ringer's post though.

PTSideshow
02-01-2009, 07:09 AM
Its getting bad across the world, in Michigan the unemployment rate is from 9 to 15 % depending on the location in the state.
Son is head of the hotel/casino non gaming IT services at a casino. they are doing ok better than some of the other locals here and in Windsor.
But they still laid off, half the housekeeping /food staff. Along with 1/3 of the other departments. And reduced the pay by 10%.
Daughter worked for Gibb technology owned by Branson and the NZ cable king. Job was for 3 years as a designer. She came out of a meeting around noon with a supplier. Her department was empty, they let go the complete engineering /design/CAD. when she finally found somebody they told her they didn't disturb the meeting so she could finish it up.

They wouldn't answer where the work of the whole department is going, or who will do it?

Wife is a CAD/designer for a Japanese auto supplier, company was part of Chrysler that was unloaded to them years ago. They are divesting themselves of people as fast as they can. And the rumors are flying. They will fire all exec's and bring in Big wheels from Japan on a rotating basis to run the company.

I have been retired for a number of years, and doing house stuff and taking care of parents and an other senior family members when they need home help.

They just said on the tube local news, the biggest and hottest job market in the Metro Detroit area is the tempjob companies. The one they just profiled has 650 to 700 jobs a week they need to file. And that all the other temp companies are about the same.

And the only car built in America with more than 70% American or Canadian parts Like it or not they are trying to wed US to or Northern neighbor by hook or crook. As it is now called North American content. Is the Toyota, as all of the American cars have more parts and sub assemblies from out of the country.

And with the car dealers whining and crying about sales. The ads in the newspapers still are the same old scams filled with mumbo jumbo that makes no sense and in the bottom of the fine print the car or truck they offered for sale at the great price was just sold as I opened the door :rolleyes:

My only conclusion is that when that president and his wife from a while ago said that we all are part of the global village. We Americans misunderstood them, it wasn't about bringing the 3rd world countries up to the standards of the 20 leading nations. It was about dragging the rest of us down to their living standards. While creating the robber Barron class of people like in the old days.

With all the wall street/bankers getting retention bonuses. My question is where would they go to work?

Besides Fiat said that unless Chrysler gets the 3 or 4 billion more tax payer dollars, the deals is off.
And look at the pork in the latest version, of the stimulus bill. Some of it has been sitting around for years waiting for its chance to spend.

I 'm not trying to turn this into a political thread as I distrust all and the term Honest politician is an oxymoron ;)

Circlip
02-01-2009, 07:17 AM
Scots yer ex-convict,:D

Dave, calm down, what I don't understand is that if the "Taxpayers" are bailing the Banks and car manufacturers out, how do you make your protest NOT to support them? And the Corus saga, just watched a report telling us that their workers in Holland are being paid for the one shift in six they DON'T work cos the local town wouldsuffer if there was redundancies. Protectionism????

Regards Ian

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 07:18 AM
Yes Tiffe, but WE had an EMPIRE :rolleyes:
.......................................
........................................

Regards Ian

Tell me about the "Empire" (EmPAH!!??) - we were (are) "colonials" (ial's with a colon attached? - perhaps we needed a colonic irrigation - good enough for Princess Di tho!!).

I used to watch the vestiges of it on the TV - "Last night of (at?) the Proms". They really got into it didn't they. Not a dry eye in the house when "Land of Hope and Glory" came on! Great entertainment though!! Same with the "Olde' Time Music Hall"!!!. And lottsa others!!

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 07:43 AM
Scots yer ex-convict,:D
...........................................
..........................................

Regards Ian

Thanks Ian,

admonishment noted!!

I not only should have known better, I did know better.

I went asking for it and got it - right where the chicken got the axe!!

I can see a "Go (back??) to gaol" card in the offing.

(Note my use of the correct spelling of "gaol" - not the Americanised "jail" - oops, nearly typed "Americanized").

Peter.
02-01-2009, 07:45 AM
Workers here are being laid of by the ten-thousand weekly, so yeah - we're in the **** in a big way.
You can't blame the foreign workers, they are only taking advantage of perceived or actual 'riches' to be had that they have no opportunity of in their home counties. Who you CAN blame are the government and corporate bodies who prate about finding work for British people then farm major government-subsidised contracts to companies from outside the UK.

Your Old Dog
02-01-2009, 07:50 AM
misery loves company.

Oh keep it up, I'm starting to breath hard :D

Circlip
02-01-2009, 08:09 AM
Another piece of Saturn 5 fodder (so it's FAR too complicated for me to understand), If Nick Leason was sent down for the Bearings Bank saga, why aren't there lots of bankers (W) in the cells waiting to be tried??

Appology accepted "Tiffe", you know how they get upset when they a addressed as their national drink.

Regards Ian

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 08:18 AM
Well, it is like this m'Lud.

Did anyone see the French news of the railway strike( SNCF)?
Did anyone see the manifestations or greves 'en Paris' the other day?
Did anyone read about 'Espana por favor' going into depression and that they are giving 'furry donkeys, Kiss me quick hats and Spanish fly' to anyone who will be tough enough to fight their way into Spain as others are rushing out?
Virgin Airways is doing a stunt on sh1te food in Indian Flights so that they can give the impression of improving the service. The odds are that once you are sh1tting on the bog in Mumbai( Bombay), some bastard will come from Pakki- land and blow the walls off around the throne.

OK, its fun in England because a French owned petrol company( Total) in England is employing Eye-ties to do Brit welding in a tin floating hotel.

But--- the news, the real news is that in certain pubs in the North East of England they are flooging beer for----------wait for it--------------all of a penny a pint. Again, you can get a meal at the bar for 1.99 or $3.

Now I can get 19 Chinky courses for 16 at the Chinese New Year.
I did last Monday!!!!

Now, the news is even better- 'foreign workers' are going home- cos the wages are ------BETTER at home!

As we used to say 'Rule Britannia and that'
Come on , then, fingers out of perineaums. Other people are making an arse out of it- why not have a go?

Dictated whilst snuggled into the ample bosom of Matron at the Lunatic Asylum. It's dead quiet- the whole bleeding lot of nutters ,apart from her and me, have buggered off!

Norm

Circlip
02-01-2009, 08:22 AM
Nice one Norm, as politically "Correct" as ever:D

Regards Ian

Evan
02-01-2009, 08:50 AM
And the only car built in America with more than 70% American or Canadian parts Like it or not they are trying to wed US to or Northern neighbor by hook or crook. As it is now called North American content.

This has been the case since the signing of the Auto Pact agreement in 1965.


It removed tariffs on cars, trucks, buses, tires, and automotive parts between the two countries, greatly benefiting the large American car makers. In exchange the big three car makers (General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler) agreed that automobile production in Canada would not fall below 1964 levels and that for every five new cars sold in Canada, three new ones would be made there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_Products_Trade_Agreement


The Auto Pact finally was replaced by NAFTA but the effect remains the same. The US and Canada are joined at the hip by trade. We are each other's largest supplier and customer.

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 08:57 AM
But Ian, this tiresome old git IS an 'Ou est le papier?- de Toilette' and 'A Spanish Don' and an 'Aviemoron' with my heart in the Highlands a'chain' the dear(dear) and - I sort of 'ave the ear of the Honky Konky and Shag -high lot.

I'm not just a pretty face and I speak French 'Comme une vache Espagnole'

As the Board of Haven once said 'And in his time, a man plays many parts'

Pardon me- whilst I puke- amonst the mules.

Exeunt and that!
Infamy, Infamy, they all got it in form me!

Wooly Mac Geordie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Awe Gawde- here is the other Prince of Denmark

Woe is me, thrice woe

aboard_epsilon
02-01-2009, 09:01 AM
I believe we are sailing straight for meltdown with a complete dick-head at the helm.

the last 2,500 steel jobs that were lost recently were jobs lost forever, they will not be recalled as we are letting crap steel in from other sources when we should be using our own.



The British steel industry has been owned by Tata for the last 4 years or so ...so it isn't British..

There ain't any truly British stuff left ..

Take Dyson for instance ........boasts all over UK TV ..about his British product ..gets design awards ...sets up factory here ...after a couple of years, moves everything to the far east ..and puts his British workers on the dole .
He still makes TV appearances ..boasting how British and entrepreneurial he is .

Half the time, a British company with a British sounding name is foreign owned.

Another thing ...........they pass EU laws on this and that, banning this and that in our industry .........it's only the UK that react to them...........the rest of Europe does nothing for years .

So these new rules/laws effect our competitiveness with the others, that are not taking any notice ..

There isn't a solution ............we can never compete with workers that are paid 0.25 an hour or less..............unless we revert to their standard of living ..

The only people making money in the UK now and in the last 30 years are those buying and selling foreign goods ..........and that sums up the wealth or what was of wealth of the UK in a nutshell.

so we got examples of british entrepreneurs paraded on our tv screens..........

These examples they hold up to us, setting the standards we are asked to follow .

They are usully buyers sellers who trade foreign goods or people who have stuff made in the far east.

NO WONDER WE ARE GOING DOWN THE PAN.

all the best.markj

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 09:09 AM
Sorry- Markj but Business is business

Exits to that Jewish Carol- What a friend we have in Jesus and buggers off to Davos or pretty near.

Tibet to be, Tibet to be? Did I get my Hamlet wrong?

Not looking at the Chinese Panjandrum at 10 Downing Street a few minutes ago.

Chinese crackers? Not really

Norm,

Davek0974
02-01-2009, 09:11 AM
Workers here are being laid of by the ten-thousand weekly, so yeah - we're in the **** in a big way.
You can't blame the foreign workers, they are only taking advantage of perceived or actual 'riches' to be had that they have no opportunity of in their home counties. Who you CAN blame are the government and corporate bodies who prate about finding work for British people then farm major government-subsidised contracts to companies from outside the UK.

No, thats the thing, you CANT blame them but you can blame the system that allows it to happen as you said. The government is a corrupt, money wasting, pocket lining, back scratching bunch of arseholes, they will get thier fat pensions regardless of what they do to the country or what it costs. We are the ones who will pay for it. It does not matter what political party takes over now, the money is blown and the country is all but broke and pennyless, it WILL have to be paid for by us in the end.

We have'nt seen the thick end of this global mess yet, our kids are likely going to be left to pick up the pieces.

Dave

Peter N
02-01-2009, 09:16 AM
We are not alone.
The parlous state of the UK and US manufacturing we know about.
Norm mentioned the French having strikes and riots this week, and other EU nations.
Even the Russians and Chinese having been holding demonstrations to protest at the current piss-poor economic conditions and factories closing without wages being paid.

Not a lot to do except keep your heads down, keep as many friends as you can and try not to make any new enemies. Keep working where you can and remember that even a penny profit is still a profit.
S**t happens, and I think we all know there is still worse to come, but what frustrates me is that I KNOW that there is still plenty of money out there, it's just that both individuals and businesses have gone a Spending Strike - "Just In Case".

Peter

Davek0974
02-01-2009, 09:18 AM
The British steel industry has been owned by Tata for the last 4 years or so ...so it isn't British..

There ain't any truly British stuff left ..

Take Dyson for instance ........boasts all over UK TV ..about his British product ..gets design awards ...sets up factory here ...after a couple of years, moves everything to the far east ..and puts his British workers on the dole .
He still makes TV appearances ..boasting how British and entrepreneurial he is .

Half the time, a British company with a British sounding name is foreign owned.

Another thing ...........they pass EU laws on this and that, banning this and that in our industry .........it's only the UK that react to them...........the rest of Europe does nothing for years .

So these new rules/laws effect our competitiveness with the others, that are not taking any notice ..

There isn't a solution ............we can never compete with workers that are paid 0.25 an hour or less..............unless we revert to their standard of living ..

The only people making money in the UK now and in the last 30 years are those buying and selling foreign goods ..........and that sums up the wealth or what was of wealth of the UK in a nutshell.

so we got examples of british entrepreneurs paraded on our tv screens..........

These examples they hold up to us, setting the standards we are asked to follow .

They are usully buyers sellers who trade foreign goods or people who have stuff made in the far east.

NO WONDER WE ARE GOING DOWN THE PAN.

all the best.markj

Yes the steel co. was owned by others but at least it was a factory over HERE making stuff and employing people, those people are likely never going to work in that industry again now.

DYSON is an arsehole, a once great inventor who sold himself down the pan. British my arse, we had a Dyson vacuum once, it was good but never again after he shafted his workers and the UK, of course all the others are made elsewhere since HOOVER went but at least they have always been made elsewhere (theres some logic somewhere there i think)

I fully agree on the EU laws, we practically act on them before the ink is dry on the draft copy!! Most elsewhere, they ignore them until they absolutely must act on them, we have done it years earlier and lost the edge already.
I cant understand why our leaders have to be so soft and bend so far backwards it would make your eyes water!

Nothing good can come from an unelected body such as the EU unless you are on the gravy train that it is.

Dave

John Stevenson
02-01-2009, 09:57 AM
If we banned political correctness made the compulsory redundancies apply only to tree huggers and enforced that every new EU law was restricted to 1 page and had a 10 year roll up implementation date we would be great again in 3 weeks.

.

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 10:02 AM
Of course, Peter is right about earning another penny- not losing it!

It's gone too far now to be 'each man is an island' Bollocks!

All over the World, there is unrest. Thank you Peter- I have no doubt that your wife was translating from the Italian. I was watching TF1 which is the French TV- and Claire Chazal despite her age, has nice tits.Eh bien, mon brave.

One thing is certain. If you have any debt today, you are up Sh1t's Creek.

Ian, I was brought up to think from out of the dirty gutters of Tyneside by a kindly old and very bluff Yorkshireman. He was the man that used to joke that he went to Masonic meetings in the Gentleman's toilet in Kings Cross Station in London. 'They' whoever they were sat on the toilets and conducted 'whatever they did' on the WC's and he wore an evening suit for the meetings with the label 'London, New York and ----British Museum'

In this, gentleman, thanks to this reprobate, I keep my sense of humour and my cool.

I suppose that when it all gets on a bit further, I'll have to come in, in my evening suit- ex- Oxfam for 4.95- and blow out the candles!

Ian, you now know!

Norm

nheng
02-01-2009, 10:18 AM
My condolences to your once great country. Thanks to our fellow americans, we are now headed in the same direction as the tidy bowl man. We seem to think that we can spend our way out of our economic gloom while, just as in the case of the bank bailouts, we will be pi$$ing into the wind. An amount of money which, borrowing from ex-gov Huckabee last night:

"would cover the market values of Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Google, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, Time Warner and Apple, according to February 2007 figures in Forbes magazine; and you would be left with more than $23 billion in change to pick up a few 'smaller' companies."

The only way out of this mess is to reduce, not grow, as is the current plan, the size of government and its role in our lives. We need to eliminate or reduce the regulatory requirements that are strangling industry. We also need to have a general change in our mentalities. The greed of stockholders and their own personal greed is what has driven Wall street to become the worlds largest casino ... and the house always wins ... maybe only $90M in salary and bonus instead of $200M. Poor babies.

I've watched from neighboring NH as MA keeps voting the same a$$holes back into office. Now we've voted for our own collection of them. We are getting what we asked for.

God bless America .. and our UK friends too.

radkins
02-01-2009, 10:25 AM
Possibly but to get a better world perspective you will have to ask the views of an Aboriginal in OZ and a Red Indian in America about immigrant labour.



No real offense taken because you probably meant none but those of us whose ancestors were born here are not "Red skins" nor even "Indians", we are Native Americans. We became known as Indian because an European Explorer was such a poor navigator that he mistakenly thought he was on the other side of the world! To this day that idiot is still honored with a national holiday!:rolleyes:

Circlip
02-01-2009, 10:25 AM
Having "Had" to work for an oriental employer when my British green ray emmiting company sold the consumer electronics part off many years ago,
alegedly the worst thing that could befall them was to loose face? Yep,THEY certainly lost face, but we lost our jobs. Seen it happen too many times, when the going gets tough, the owners bu**er orft.

Sir Clive of Sinclair told us many years ago that Britain would just become a think tank with manufacturing being carried out in the most cost effective countries. We certainly have sat on our laurels and "Thought" our way into the crap. I thinkthe last serious challenge was made by Watt Tyler.

Regards Ian

Timleech
02-01-2009, 10:28 AM
An interesting attempt to describe the mess at:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/dan-roberts-on-business-blog/interactive/2009/jan/29/financial-pyramid

It looks better on paper (!), with the whole thing set out on a double-page spread.

Tim

nheng
02-01-2009, 10:34 AM
Too much PC in this country. While Native North Americans would certainly be accurate, many of us were brought up and have lived for decades and referred to, with nothing but respect for and sorrow for the historical treatment of, the "Indians" who lived on this great land. We knew who we were talking about and never once conjured up images of folks in Bombay (excuse me, Mumbai).

Too much time spent on words. Makes work only for lawyers and keeps them well fed.

Uncle O
02-01-2009, 10:49 AM
PTSideshow,
Being in Michigan myself, and in the Machinist trade, I have a pretty lousy feeling that my job will soon be gone.
Work has gone from 2 years worth of 50-65hr weeks down to scratching for 40hrs. The only small shimmering I can see is I have a garage full of tools and may be able to scare up odd work to get by.......once it warms up.

lazlo
02-01-2009, 10:52 AM
We seem to think that we can spend our way out of our economic gloom while, just as in the case of the bank bailouts, we will be pi$$ing into the wind. An amount of money which, borrowing from ex-gov Huckabee last night:

"would cover the market values of Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Google, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, Time Warner and Apple, according to February 2007 figures in Forbes magazine; and you would be left with more than $23 billion in change to pick up a few 'smaller' companies."

I think you may be confusing your citations. Huckabee's speech that you're quoting was criticizing the cost of the Iraq War:

What $1 trillion in U.S. war spending could buy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/ss-trillion/

"A trillion dollar budget would cover the market values of Microsoft, Wal-Mart, Google, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, Time Warner and Apple, according to February 2007 figures in Forbes magazine; and you would be left with more than $23 billion in change to pick up a few 'smaller' companies."

Here's the actual transcript of the speech from Huckabee's web page:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=News.View&News_id=5868487c-f4ac-411b-a1ca-9f97e886a95a&Label_id=&Year=2009&Month=1

Peter N
02-01-2009, 10:57 AM
For those of us who aren't yet retired or gentlemen of independent means, how this has current state of affairs (or should that be Affairs of State?) affected you personally and your business?

For me, I'm just coming to the end of year 3 since I started an Injection Moulding and Mould Tooling business. First 2 years were very good, better than expected, but Year 3 has been significantly down, but only from around the halfway point. Up until then we were on target.
I don't think I have to be concerned for another 6 months or so, and we have no borrowings, a healthy balance sheet, and (surprisingly!) a healthy unsecured overdraft facility to call on if we need it.

But after that I'm going to start worrying a little bit if more new projects are not coming on line. In this business the design-to-market cycle can sometimes be extremely short, but more often than not takes between 6-12months before a decent revenue stream gets going.

So how are the rest of you doing?

Peter

tony ennis
02-01-2009, 11:20 AM
The US is following in the UK's footsteps. We just have to look at you to know what is going to happen to us. The politicians are blind or don't care. Not an honest one in the lot here.

The spending plan being touted by the Liberals here isn't designed to get the economy going again, it's the payment for the votes they bought.

Here's a terrifying quote:


A democracy is always temporary in nature: it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.

Timleech
02-01-2009, 11:43 AM
So how are the rest of you doing?

Peter

I repair & maintain canal boats as the main day job. I'm not short of work, but the phone is less busy than usual at this time of year.
I usually aim to have a major steelwork job on the dry-dock during the winter to tide me over, I haven't encouraged that this winter partly as deliberate policy as by body complains more about the heavy work as the years creep on but partly there haven't been so many enquiries. Funnily enough, I had a serious enquiry yesterday for what would be an ideal winter job for me, I had to tell him he'll have to wait until next Autumn or go elsewhere as I'm booked up now until Spring when the routine work will (hopefully) come in.
Given how cold this winter has generally been, I'm not sorry not have spent too much of it in the dry-dock so far.
It's partly because I expected a fairly quiet time that I bought the big Kelvin engine mentioned in another thread.
People who own boats will always need them maintained, but it's obvious that a lot are holding fire and delaying expenditure.

People building new canal boats are mostly having an awful time, a number have gone bump over the last few months. Some of that was expected anyway, everyone with half a brain could see that the level of new building of a couple of years ago was unsustainable, but the financial situation has led to an almighty bump back to earth for the new build trade.

Tim

Teenage_Machinist
02-01-2009, 11:59 AM
Whose quote was that?



If those at the head of the liberal movement use such methods, I will exploit them for their gains and then throw them down with short thanks for their efforts. I understand that liberals in Land across the Sea are much more liberal (conservatives less conservative too) than our pathetic excuses for liberals that dwell here where Men of the West live on stolen land. Yet if there is one side most likely to be offered a dictatorship and not to take it, it is us, and if gift giving is cruel or manipulative, I will ask, " How do you then make people vote against their interests?" for so has been done to great detriment.

Or might one favor a dictatorship? I think not, but so has been done in cruel times. If one does follow the principle of "evil shall prevail because good is dumb" the solution is that of Lenin, but very cruelly did the people suffer from his sucsessor.

Circlip
02-01-2009, 12:02 PM
Might be a cheaper option Tim, renting out narrowboats, could be more profitable than renting a house.

I wonder if this could install a bit of British pride, we FOLLOWED the U.S. OF into financial disaster, but we're bu**ered FIRST.

Regards Ian.

But as Scarlet said "Tommorow is another day".

Peter N
02-01-2009, 12:13 PM
I wonder if this could install a bit of British pride, we FOLLOWED the U.S. OF into financial disaster, but we're bu**ered FIRST.

Regards Ian.

But as Scarlet said "Tommorow is another day".

Too right Ian.
The US sneezes and we catch a cold. Turned into a dose of the bloody Flu this time though!
At least they have the feelgood factor of a new President, whilst we're still stuck with the one-eyed moron.

Peter

Circlip
02-01-2009, 12:15 PM
YOU DAMN WELL LEAVE NORM ALONE :mad:

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 12:16 PM
'Quote' is part of a verb whilst 'Quotation' is a noun.
But a quotation is not the same as a cash payment.

I said that.

Now, anyone for 'Woolton Pies'?

Oh, yes-- you CAN live on them.

Norm

Peter N
02-01-2009, 12:19 PM
YOU DAMN WELL LEAVE NORM ALONE :mad:

..... GORDON BROWN ya daft Yorkshire twat :D
Whodyathink I meant?

Peter

lazlo
02-01-2009, 12:23 PM
The spending plan being touted by the Liberals here isn't designed to get the economy going again, it's the payment for the votes they bought.

Here's a terrifying quote:

Here's a terrifying quote:
A democracy is always temporary in nature: it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.


Whose quote was that?

That email is an Internet Hoax that's been circulated by the minority voters in every election since the 2000 Bush Election:

Do the results of the 2000 presidential election correspond to a prediction about the downfall of democracy?
Keywords: "Joseph Olson, Alexander Tyler, democracy, urban legends archive, hoaxes, scams, rumors, urban myths, folklore, hoax slayer, mythbusters, misinformation, snopes"

http://www.snopes.com/politics/ballot/athenian.asp

Law professor demonstrates that the results of the 2000 presidential election correspond to an 18th century historian's prediction of conditions accompanying the downfall of democracy.


"At about the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

Origins: The item cited above began circulating on the Internet since shortly after the 2000 U.S. presidential election, reappeared briefly after the 2004 presidential election, and saw a strong resurgence (in a modified form which replaced the names "Bush" and "Gore" with "McCain and "Obama") after the 2008 presidential election. What follows is our analysis of the statements included in the original piece as it initially appeared in 2000, including information helpfully provided to us by Mike Powell of Kennewick, Washington.

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University was not the source of any of the statistics or the text attributed to him above. When contacted via e-mail, Professor Olson confirmed that he had no authorship or involvement in this matter,

The "Alexander Tyler" quoted at the head of the article is actually Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser, a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s and early 1800s. However, there is no record of a Tyler's having authored a work entitled The Fall of the Athenian Republic or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic, and the quoted material attributed to him above is likely apocryphal.

Circlip
02-01-2009, 12:24 PM
Sorry Peter, thought you were having a go at the guy whose post followed mine :D

Peter N
02-01-2009, 12:29 PM
No worries Ian.
Norm and I spar a bit occasionally on a few topics close to our hearts, but we also have very jovial and civilised e-mail conversations offline too, and get on well despite our disagreements.

Peter

Circlip
02-01-2009, 12:31 PM
BTW Peter, It's snowing here, don't ever let it be said that we're tight in Yorkshire, ------ we're sending it down. :D

tony ennis
02-01-2009, 12:33 PM
Lovely. I usually check things out.

However, that quote rings true. I have wondered how you can compete, politically, if your party says, "You must behave responsibly" and the other says, "You deserve things you can't afford. I'll get them for you."

lazlo
02-01-2009, 12:38 PM
However, that quote rings true. I have wondered how you can compete, politically, if your party says, "You must behave responsibly" and the other says, "You deserve things you can't afford. I'll get them for you."

Tony, I agree with your sentiment, but Bush was spending like a Drunken Sailor too. Obama's proposing an $800 Billion stimulus package, Bush had a $750 Billion stimulus package. Half of the $750 TARP money was pissed down the drain ($18 Billion was taken out for Executive Bonuses alone), and I have no doubt that this new relief package will be Pork Barreled to death just like Bush's was.

This was in today's Austin Statesman. I don't think anyone in either party (except for investment bankers) would disagree:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/BenSargent.gif

Circlip
02-01-2009, 12:44 PM
We used to have a series of brilliant adverts on the TV Tony. One was that of a Numpty playing with a Football (Soccer) in one hand, a mobile in the other, supposidly talking to the Bank while his wife is video-ing him saying "How much do we want to borrow? OH yes 25000".

Another was, after borrowing 25000 for a house modernisation "And we still had enough left over to go on holiday"

Funnyly enough, Havent seen them lately??

Regards Ian.

tony ennis
02-01-2009, 12:53 PM
Tony, I agree with your sentiment, but Bush was spending like a Drunken Sailor too.

Oh don't misunderstand - I can't tell the Republicans from the Democrats any more. One party wants to tax the crap out of us, and waste it. The other wants to borrow money from our kids, and waste it. And at any moment, either party will do it either way. They are as hogs to the trough.

Up until the bailout of 2008, I was a hard-core-party-line-voting Republican. No longer. I have peered behind the curtain. I'm a fiscal conservative who will vote the candidate of any party that reflects this.

Norman Atkinson
02-01-2009, 12:58 PM
One eyed moron?????
Actually, gentlemen, I have BOTH eyes open again.
More than can be said for British politicians!

As I stumbled my archaic frame away from the box--- there was hints.

There could be Two people out of a job err soon.
The British whatsits and the Chinese guy.
Scotland is having budget probs and there is more unrest on the Eye-tie welders.

And Ian, leave Peter alone- I'd hate to miss the odd 'Barney' with him.
Not covered in snow yet, Peter? Bloody russian problems again.

Happily, I am not blaming the St Louis business on homosexuality like some Austrian C(o)unt or (c)leeric. Oops- me punctuation machine has taken leave of its tenses.

Norm

sansbury
02-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Whose quote was that?

Good bit of historical digging here:
http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

I thought it was Tocqueville myself, but looks like I was wrong.

Alistair Hosie
02-01-2009, 01:24 PM
As far as Australia is concerned we Brits showed you guys how things should be done espcially the Scotts who turned thiongs around and made Australia great without them it would still be a sheep shagging bug filled bug eating economy:D:D:D he he
and NOW
Seriosly to the English here who also hate the Scots Gordon Brown is our best hope through these troubles seriously he is the only one with a big enough brain for the job.Can you imagine going back to tory sleeze sleeze sleeze and cameron and his mottley crew have no opolitical experience at all these poroblems are world wide and theres no point just blaming Gordon Brown because he's Scottish hje's the greatest prime minister we ever had. apart from Alex salmond who should be in charge.Alistair

Circlip
02-01-2009, 01:30 PM
Yes, your signiture HAS excused your opinions.

Alistair Hosie
02-01-2009, 01:40 PM
my opinions are better than yours:DAlistair

Peter N
02-01-2009, 01:53 PM
my opinions are better than yours:DAlistair

Not where one-eyed Gordon is concerned Alistair.
It's nothing to do with him being Scottish, and all to do with his incompetence and empty rhetoric, and the typical Labour 'Tax and Spend' policies that he presided over as Chancellor.
Here are a few of his catchprases:

"I have ended the cycle of Boom and Bust"
"British Jobs for British Workers"
"We are the Party of Prudence"

All proven remarkably ill-chosen and entirely hollow.

Peter

dp
02-01-2009, 01:53 PM
Possibly but to get a better world perspective you will have to ask the views of an Aboriginal in OZ and a Red Indian in America about immigrant labour.

Ask Hawaiians what they think now about a weak immigration policy :)

malbenbut
02-01-2009, 02:01 PM
The decline of Britain as a world power only came about when we started to have a succession of Scotch prime ministers, before when we had only English and Welsh prime ministers Britain was truly Great.
MBB

Alistair Hosie
02-01-2009, 02:21 PM
Malbenut what succesion of Scttish prime ministers are you talking about:D you've been at the whiskey again naughty boy. also even neil kinnock never became prime minister the last was loyd george.Peter do you seriously think the tories would do better anyway he never said british jobs only for british workers did he? The tories have a man in charge and all his fellow men excluding ken clarke who are totally without experience .
actually I am not a fan of labour at all but like all Scots where the tories are concerned they were wiped out totaly from the Scottish map after major not even winning one seat,how embarrasing.No sorry we don't want inexperienced politicians running the shop when things are so serious I know I have been rather tongue in cheek but seriously the reason you guys don't like Gordon is beacuse he's scottish.in that case I can't stand cameron a man with a scottish name and nothing else:DAlistair not to be taken too seriously:D:DAlistair

Davek0974
02-01-2009, 04:43 PM
Not where one-eyed Gordon is concerned Alistair.
It's nothing to do with him being Scottish, and all to do with his incompetence and empty rhetoric, and the typical Labour 'Tax and Spend' policies that he presided over as Chancellor.
Here are a few of his catchprases:

"I have ended the cycle of Boom and Bust"
"British Jobs for British Workers"
"We are the Party of Prudence"

All proven remarkably ill-chosen and entirely hollow.

Peter

Im sure he has mentioned something about standing for family values, reduced crime, better hospitals blah blah blah, amongst the other hollow promises.

It really has got nothing to do with him being scottish, I'm English and have no ill feelings toward the Scottish, Welsh or Irish. He is just an incompetent liar running a party with financial diarrhea and its our money thats going down the shanks.

I cant see how this is going to end, they will keep pumping money into companies and banks that eventually fold. Why bail out a bank and let the bosses who screwed it take a bonus?

He [Brown] reckons having nation-wide broadband internet will help us out of the reccesion, WTF? Apart from a few short-lived jobs for the cabling guys, how is that supposed to help? By the time its there, no one will be able to afford it! Maybe Labour is going to fund the nations' bill so we can all have FREE internet access:)

Aparently having a third runway at heathrow is necessary for the British economy, WTF? Is there a massive queue of rich investors lining up to get into the country? Only to decide that because we only have two runways at an airport, we are not worthy:) The reality is that this is a pissing match between the UK, France and Germany. France had a new runway first, now Germany is flattening forest land to build a new one so obviously WE must have one, go figure. Its going to cost big-time though.

We need manufacturing jobs and we need them last year! Heavy industry is what we were good at, shipbuilding, mining, steel, cars and farming (not heavy but we were good at it).

Get rid of the PC brigade and their lawyers, look at home for manufacturing before going elsewhere, is it right to get a ship built in france even though it means closing a shipyard here and sacking all the workers just because it saved 5 on the cost? I dont think so.

I dont even trust the voting system anymore, it just never seems to follow the feeling of the people.

oil mac
02-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Well spoken Alistair!-- Anyone who wants to enter politics is not fit to govern a country, Where Scotland is concerned we all got well and truly stuffed by that bitch Thatcher, She was the nearest thing i know of to a fascist, ( She had lovely friends Pinoche for one) She completely stuffed this country up as a manufacturing base from Lands -End to John -o-Groats, The labour are no better especially under greasy Tony, and the one we have now, is dire, Most of our political leaders are from Oxbridge for the last 200 odd years, They are more than useless As far as Labour & Tory are concerned we have a system more resembling the courts of the old medieval kings, "The fools & the knaves" I wonder how many of those so and so,s care one jot about mother Britain, They cant see past their slobbering snouts in the pig trough
Will we ever see a vast show trial for the bankers who by their greed have almost brought us to our knees,? interestingly Brown seeemed a few months ago, to think, on a freudian slip, let it be known he was the savior of the world economy,? Best world economist, Sold our gold reserves for next to nothing
I for one get thoroughly pissed off, by the constant insinuations of how bad the Scottish workers are, Men who carried out feats like building the biggest ships in the world, At one time a painting was around, which showed the contributions of The Fairfield Shipbuilding & Engineering Co of Glasgow, who built an enormous part of the pre first world war British navy,s fleet of fighting vessels and ditto for the second world war! Collosal effort
I for one i am glad to have been part of Scotlands past industrial scene-- No i am not a trouble maker, & along with my old ex colleagues worked hard in various establishments to the best of my abilities, as did these old guys I for one i am heartbroken to see how things have gone in my little country All over the world one could see the hand of the Scot in their development,men like Andrew Carnegie, Livingstone Mungo Park & The great Canadian rairoad director whose name escapes me at the moment, plus many others-- Gentlemen dont forget our great achievements, by comparing us with a few "skanks" who emigrated and were not exactly embassadors for their native land
The Scot is by and large a fair minded & generous individual, Unlike the bankers & Thatchers of this world
Scotland for ever

aboard_epsilon
02-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Aparently having a third runway at heathrow is necessary for the British economy, WTF?

That's to let more of us leave the country on holidays ..to spend what cash we have left in other country's ..

And let more immigrants in ...so they can work in pizza huts .....kebab houses....make us all nice and fat and unfit.....they intern send their money back to their families in Asia and convert our old chapels and churches into new temples and mosques .

Gordon is kindly and thoughtful, you see !!!

all the best.markj

Alistair Hosie
02-01-2009, 05:03 PM
read below

Alistair Hosie
02-01-2009, 05:06 PM
Dan the truth might hurt our english friends but you are correct we had in Scotland Thatcher imposed upon us for eighteen years,we never voted for her but because the english did we had her for eighteen years .During that time she carried out the poll tax in Sscotland a year before trying it in England to see if the scots would accept it,what democaracy is that????? She too hated us north of the border I.E. the Scot's. We have suffered enough anti Scottish hatred from the south when the english were about to have the poll tax foisted upon them she withdrew it leaving us north of the border in a right mess.I don't care what you say the english primarily hate Gordon brown out of racist reasons. They would rather have thatcher of John major the little weed who all tried to deny Scotland a parliament because they wanted Scottish oil which has done them very well for years sorting out their mismanagement of the economy .Now they want complete amatuers to take over Cameron and inexperienced co , not in my back yard thanks. I hope we have a split Scotland could do well on it's own if they hate us that much then they shoould be glad to see us look after our own affairs it will happen just a question of time.Well said Dan we Scots are fine as long as the engluish benefit in war and all we were always sent to do the difficult jobs pure racism thanks god not aLL the english are like some here..Alistair

Peter.
02-01-2009, 05:18 PM
when the english were about to have the poll tax foisted upon them she withdrew it

That's not entirely true - it was withdrawn but we had it for a time.

Peter N
02-01-2009, 05:25 PM
We have suffered enough anti Scottish hatred from the south <SNIP>

<CONTD>Well said Dan we Scots are fine as long as the engluish benefit in war and all we were always sent to do the difficult jobs pure racism thanks god not aLL the english are like some here..Alistair

Alistair, what a complete and utter load of bollocks you just wrote.
The English don't hate the Scots, but the Scots do seem to hate the English.

What about the big brave men in Aberdeen who did this to a defenceless girl walking down the street because they heard her English accent?
Scars of the Girl beaten for being English (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114567/Scars-girl-beaten-English-Scotland.html)

All they did, and all you're doing by spouting that garbage, is adding to the bigoted behaviour that none of us need, and doing other Scotsman a dis-service. Thank God you're not all like that.

And for the record I'm not English.

Peter

oldtiffie
02-01-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't want to be the spoiler or the "Party Pooper" here but it was todays generations that not only produced the "Bankers" and "Executives" etc. as well as the politicians and voted then in as well as being the generation that saved nothing, wanted for nothing, spent other people's money and gorged on credit like there was no tomorrow.

Well, sure enough, the music stopped with too few chairs and the bubble burst as it had to.

And also sure enough, today's generations are going to suffer for their indulgence but as nothing to those who are going to have to wear the consequences of it for years to come.

And right on cue, they are blaming everybody but themselves.

The kids of today and tomorrow are really going to be thankful for what they've been left.

Just hope that they don't look after today's generations as today's generations have looked after them.

I expect that there will quite a period of austerity as well as discipline imposed (either by themselves or "others").

Its time to "pay the Piper".

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/pay+the+piper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pied_Piper_of_Hamelin

The Piper cometh!!

nheng
02-01-2009, 05:55 PM
Here's the actual transcript of the speech from Huckabee's web page:

http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?fa=News.View&News_id=5868487c-f4ac-411b-a1ca-9f97e886a95a&Label_id=&Year=2009&Month=1

Huckabee was asking his audience last night if they knew how much a trillion dollars was, in regard to the size of the stimulus package, and apparently re-used these earlier examples from a Canadian Press writer that were directed at war costs.

Carld
02-01-2009, 06:02 PM
Well, it seems that the USA, England, Spain, France, Russia and others are in a DEPRESSION not a recession as the governments propose. Is China far behind with their factories closing, their economy failing, their refusing to buy any more US bonds to support our failing government. Obama is in comand of a bankrupt country that has sent it's manufacturing to every country in the world. The US has no industrial tax base to pay the money suckers on our economy. The government gave money to the banks to spend as they see fit and when they did the politicians are mad because the banks didn't give them some of it for themselves.

Yes, the USA is failing and I don't think it will last as a country very long. A Rusian predicted the USA will be divided up among the world countries by 2010 and it may happen as it looks today.

oil mac
02-01-2009, 07:08 PM
Peter,
The Scots do not all hate the English folk, I have just carried out a simple mental excercise, concerning my best mates, five of my best mates are English, One is Welsh, One Irish, & four Scots, Not a bad spread of people from the United Kingdom Now lets get back to the" simmering discontent area," which seems to be creeping into the post over the last couple of hours, The root cause of this i lay right at the door of Margaret Hildegard Thatcher, with her "cool Brittania" stuff, This did not unite the British nation but instead radically divided us, & tore asunder the tribes of Britain, and set us back in our percieved opinions of each other by centuries. This was compounded by her total scorn & hatred of the Scots carried out with a grand gusto by both her and her acolites, whilst she was in power. I well remember when she came to power at the beginning of her disastrous tenures in office, a bye election was held in the Govan area of Glasgow, in which her candidate was completely trounced, When being asked on the media her opinion, her reply was something in the nature of from memory "Dont bother me with them", That statement told me everything about her unsuitability to govern my nation,
As regards racism, I have absolutely no time for it in any shape or form, It cuts across my religious beliefs, Come to think of it in my religious following i am a member of The Anglian Community, cant get more Englified than that!
My heart goes out to that poor English girl in Aberdeen, it was a national disgrace if the perpetrators of that crime are ever found i for one do hope the full weight of justice will come down on them most heavily.
Come on guys we are all "Jock Tamsons Bairns," made in the image of God.

nheng
02-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Carld, And the UN supposedly would be the one breaking us up into separate countries or regions. I'm sure the east river waits anxiously for this to be attempted.

Carld
02-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Badges, who needs stinking badges, I have guns and bullets.:D

I don't think most Americans care who owns them as long as they have a job, home and freedom.

lazlo
02-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Carld, And the UN supposedly would be the one breaking us up into separate countries or regions.

I don't know -- there's a whole lot of folks in the South who would be just tickled to split the country at the Mason Dixon line.

aostling
02-01-2009, 09:17 PM
"Pom" was derived from "Pome" which stood for "Prisoner of Mother England" - so I guess that was us!! Convicts!!!

This is widely repeated, but there are variations. When I lived in New Zealand I was told it derived from P.O.H.M., supposedly tattooed on the arms of convicts signifying "Prisoner of His Majesty."

According to the Oxford English Dictionary Pom is a shortening of Pommy, a slang term for an Englishman first recorded in 1915. It's origin is obscure. From the OED:


The most widely held derivation of this term, for which, however, there is no firm evidence, is that which connects it with pomegranate (see quots. 1923, 1963). A discussion of this and other theories may be found in W. S. Ramson Australian English (1966) 63.

lazlo
02-01-2009, 09:54 PM
........................

Davek0974
02-02-2009, 02:59 AM
Alistair, what a complete and utter load of bollocks you just wrote.
The English don't hate the Scots, but the Scots do seem to hate the English.

What about the big brave men in Aberdeen who did this to a defenceless girl walking down the street because they heard her English accent?
Scars of the Girl beaten for being English (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114567/Scars-girl-beaten-English-Scotland.html)

All they did, and all you're doing by spouting that garbage, is adding to the bigoted behaviour that none of us need, and doing other Scotsman a dis-service. Thank God you're not all like that.

Peter

Amen to that Peter.

I dont recall seeing any anti Scottish or Anti Welsh graphiti in England but there is plenty in those places aimed at us. I was even refused service in a Welsh pub while on holiday a year or two ago.

Here's someone else who seems to recognise whats going on...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114604/The-migrants-just-dont-belong-Archbishop-York.html

Watching the news it looks like we now have some serious strike action going on due to the British jobs for British workers argument. It seems that if we go to work overseas (EU), we are guaranteed to get the right pay for the skills involved, if they come over here they are only guaranteed minimum pay regardless, so the contractors will snap them up to save money. The UK is the only country not signed up to this EU pay deal and it's pissing off our workers and rightly so. Of course, the govt. is saying there is nothing they can do, bollocks, they only have to accept the deal and sign up. But i guess a few pockets have been lined, palms greased and we suffer again.

chief
02-02-2009, 04:32 AM
I find it laughable that many here degrade the British empire, was it wrong? At the time in history it happened no. For all it's faults it gave more than it took.
Britian is failing and American is following along and the reasons for failure are simple, white guilt, political correctness,diversity nonsense, unchecked immigration and surrendering to the cult of Islam. Those who fail to voice their againist these evils are fools. Those who accept these evils are merely feeding the alligator.

R W
02-02-2009, 04:48 AM
Yup - true. The "offenders", "invaders" and immigrants here in OZ were all or mostly Brits (aka "Poms").

Just what or who do you refer to when you use the term "invaders" in regard to the early settlement of Australia.

Circlip
02-02-2009, 05:07 AM
"We" always seem to revert back to the dark and dismal days of "Thatcherism" and how THAT'S whats caused the present problems. If her model was so bad, why hasn't the government of the last "Few" years changed it??

On the Racist issue, in discussions with a respected Scottish collegue, whose, on his own admissions forefathers were cattle and sheep stealers, heartyly resents that gorgeous Gordon regards himself as a Scot, and the actions of some nutters in Aberdeen which can't be condoned, is not isolated to Scotsmen and not only the north of the border.

My own PERSONAL take is that On the one hand we seem to have a surfit of "Scottish" politicians that can vote for the policies carried out south of the border, then skip back north to do their own "Thing" in their own parliament, and secondly, the loverly Gordon wasn't actually VOTED into the office he now clings to.

Regards Ian.

Allan Waterfall
02-02-2009, 05:52 AM
Since Maggie was in power we haven't had a PM with any backbone and conviction and for the last eleven years we've had a PM without any semblance of integrity.Maggie was the last real leader we've had.

It'll take someone like Maggie to get us out of it again,but by the time that happens Gordon Brown and his cronies will have dug us into such a deep hole we'll be a third world country.

Allan

Mark McGrath
02-02-2009, 05:55 AM
I take it Tiffie that you are an Aborigine?You refer to every one else as immigrants or invaders so you must be a true Australian.
Is this correct ?

Davek0974
02-02-2009, 12:12 PM
I find it laughable that many here degrade the British empire, was it wrong? At the time in history it happened no. For all it's faults it gave more than it took.
Britian is failing and American is following along and the reasons for failure are simple, white guilt, political correctness,diversity nonsense, unchecked immigration and surrendering to the cult of Islam. Those who fail to voice their againist these evils are fools. Those who accept these evils are merely feeding the alligator.

If only we could ram that down our political leaders' throats until it stuck, then we might start getting somewhere.

And yes Maggie Thatcher had far bigger balls than any PM since.

J Tiers
02-02-2009, 12:14 PM
A few pernicious concepts which need to be got rid of to rapidly recover from the "downturn"..... as I have nothing else to do while I get rid of my unwanted house guests "sam and ella".

1) "Maximizing shareholder value" A cover-all for most any corporate action which looks very good short term and quite a bit worse long-term. Generally related to massive layoffs, outsourcing, etc.

2) "outsourcing" Really part of #1 (what isn't?) but a code word for becoming dependent on another company for a vital part of your own product. Thus linking your profits to their success, which you have no control over. An incidental effect is potentially reducing your workforce to a warehouse operation.

3) "service economy" Another code word, related to outsourcing, which suggests that you can shuffle off all the "dirty" industrial jobs to someone else's nest, and just keep the warehousing and retail jobs. Incidental effect is turning your economy into a colonial economy where you are not in control of vital goods and even services.

Per the UK...

It appears that the UK , as part of the EU, is not in control of much of anything anymore. You are forced to accept whatever the majority of the others choose to enact, and they may not have your own best interests in mind. This is not a model for success, and I don't see how you can prevent a serious problem.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if some old antagonisms get worked off in the process........

All this is inherent in the model of a "union" of separate and distinct states, which have banded together. One wonders if the agglomeration can be regarded as stable for the long term.

That is quite different from the model of the US, where the "states" are not separate in any real sense. You travel from one to the next, and may not notice the change in "administrative jurisdiction". All are directly and clearly subjugated to the federal government in a very different way than exists in the EU.

For instance, there is no "state army". The "National guard" is nominally subject to the Governor, but in fact is not a separate army, it is directly subject to the national defence forces and administration. As far as I know, there is no "EU army" apart from joint action of the individual members.

Alistair Hosie
02-02-2009, 12:22 PM
you can't blame the scottish nation for what happened to a girl in Aerdeen and actually to tell the truth I do very much like the English I never met one face to face that I didnt get on with or like that's a fact and as for the welsh there is a big difference between the welsh in the valleys south than the north wales who even don't like the their southern brothers and sisters.The truth is the media murdoch and his pals have never like Gordon Brown and have had it in for him since the start and have tried aT EVERY TURN TO TURN PEOPLE AGAINST HIM maggie was away with the fairies in the head. and did hate the scottish people.if she was so good why was she knifed ibn the back by her own near the end and you still havent told us who can handle the economy of this country best cameron and cronies:D:D:D:D ps and tiffe the scottish are a rightly proud bnation who have achieved many great things unlike the young australians who have given the world nothing but a la de da deeopera house and they are the most bitter racists the world have evr seen and thats a fact Alistair

Davek0974
02-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Let me re-phrase your observations...



It appears that the UK , as part of the EU, is not in control of much of anything anymore.

We have not had control of ANYTHING since joining the EU.



You are forced to accept whatever the majority of the others choose to enact

We dont need to be forced, our so called leaders will suck up any crap offered and take is as gospel.



and they may not have your own best interests in mind.

They most definately do not have our best interests in mind.


This is not a model for success, and I don't see how you can prevent a serious problem.

It was and always will be a model for disaster.

Going to hell in a handcart.

Davek0974
02-02-2009, 12:41 PM
you still havent told us who can handle the economy of this country best cameron and cronies

That's the most worrying part, there is no-one near or at the top who can do it and it seems that no-one is stepping up to the plate from lower down the ranks, they have all gone quiet which is never a good thing, with no voice of opposition, Mr Brown will be thinking he is God, i'm sure he already thinks he can do no wrong.

We need someone with balls the size of Cheddar Gorge that will tear up a load of unnecessary red tape and tell the EU to f**k off now and then instead of yes,yes,yes.

Sadly, there is no-one.

philbur
02-02-2009, 01:15 PM
Actually most of the UK oil fields fall within the area of the Shetland Isles. Which of course is not Scotland, more Norway. There are the gas fields, however most of these are offshore East Anglia, recent home to the Danes. So independence for Shetland Isles and East Anglia and bring back the bloody Vikings. Harald Blood Axe gets my vote, he would really cut a swath through Westminster. Everything was going along fine till those sodding Frenchies turned up.:p

Phil :cool:


John major the little weed who all tried to deny Scotland a parliament because they wanted Scottish oil which has done them very well for years.

oldtiffie
02-02-2009, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie
Yup - true. The "offenders", "invaders" and immigrants here in OZ were all or mostly Brits (aka "Poms").


Just what or who do you refer to when you use the term "invaders" in regard to the early settlement of Australia.

Not me. That's direct quote from not only the current (2009) Australian of the Year (an aborigine) and many aborigines who regard the current Australia Day (which celebrates the "founding" of "modern" Australia by the British/English as "Invasion Day".

You might like to check this out for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Day



I take it Tiffie that you are an Aborigine?You refer to every one else as immigrants or invaders so you must be a true Australian.
Is this correct ?

I am not an Aborigine, but I am an Australian citizen.

As to whether my fore-bears were immigrants or invaders really depends on whose and what opinion/s you use as a base-line or reference (point/s).

Check out more on Australia Day:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_Day_Honours

Australian of the Year:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Of_The_Year

Who they were/are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Australian_of_the_Year_Award_recipients

The current Australian of the Year (2009):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mick_Dodson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=mick+dodson&fulltext=Search

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mick+dodson&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Make your own judgments - unless you've made them and made them intractable previously.

NickH
02-02-2009, 07:26 PM
The truth is the media murdoch and his pals have never like Gordon Brown and have had it in for him since the start and have tried aT EVERY TURN TO TURN PEOPLE AGAINST HIM

Fair comment but Labour have stopped looking after the working man and become "New Conservatives", you can't respect a party that dumps it's values & adopts those of the opposition to get power.
And I'd never trust a twat that turns his smile on and off like a tap :D
Regards,
Nick

Teenage_Machinist
02-02-2009, 09:38 PM
"SURRENDER TO THE CULT OF ISLAM"

THIS VILE SPEECH WILL NOT GO UNNOTICED!

As a muslim, I find this extremely offensive. "Fundamentalist islam" ok, not that I think that "surrender" really constitiutes anything. Fighting against it has caused trouble for the US which among other things helped screw up the economy. It also allowed the virtual coup on the part of the us Bush Administration where they started to screw up the constitution and go all 1984-ish. But really islamic terrorism has more effect than it should, and islam itself, none.

White Guilt? WTF! Much must still be done before the unending cruelty of the Elder Days and the recent periods will be erased. Still the descendents of the South who have throughly mingled with the culture and the blood of the West are cursed and unconciously hated. I am one of those who was born into a world where the institutionalized racism was not remembered.

Diversity Nonsense: If that means what it seems to mean I will curse you! Affirmative action has been helpful.
Immigration: It needs to be controlled, but not totally controlled.
















Actually, Im atheist, not Islamic. Just screwing with your bigoted mind, Chief and others holding similar opinions.

Carld
02-03-2009, 01:03 AM
Umm, religion, yes, much, if not all, of the worlds problems is based in religion. It seems every religion is the one true religion and to be saved you have to follow that path. I like to study religions and the world if full of many different religions.

The world would be better off if religions didn't exist. Many of Scotlands problems stemed from the religious differences between them and the English. Not all mind you, but it played a big role. As I understand it the Scots would have been happy just left alone but the English had other ideas. I'm sure the Irish felt the same about the English that just couldn't leave anyone alone and wanted to rule the world.

With that said, I am of Irish and Scot decent Darnell and McGreggor of Rob Roy clan.

Personally I don't want to see any country fall. It's not in the best interest of the world for any country to fail and I hope that the governments can find a way to save the economy. Since there is a world economy now we have to find a way to save everyone at the same time. It won't do to save some and not the rest. We can no longer isolate ourselves from the world.

dp
02-03-2009, 01:52 AM
Actually, Im atheist, not Islamic.

Good for you - me too. It solves a lot of problems.

oldtiffie
02-03-2009, 02:23 AM
Too many "-isms" and far too many "ism-ists" except for machinists.

Now where were we as regards Britain and machining generally and HSM-ing in particular?

Davek0974
02-03-2009, 02:52 AM
Too many "-isms" and far too many "ism-ists" except for machinists.

Now where were we as regards Britain and machining generally and HSM-ing in particular?

Yep, back on track, I think we were at the point were Britain was going down the pan and what to do about it:)

malbenbut
02-03-2009, 04:14 AM
[Originally Posted by Teenage_Machinist
Actually, Im atheist, not Islamic]
Never mind, God still believes in you.
MBB

John Stevenson
02-03-2009, 04:16 AM
Actually, Im atheist, not Islamic. Just screwing with your bigoted mind, Chief and others holding similar opinions.

I was going to be but you don't get bank holidays.

.

oldtiffie
02-03-2009, 05:58 AM
Hmm - needs some deep cogitation John.

I thought the banks had or are taking a (well-earned?) "holiday" from being banks - or is that the "Bank Holiday" you are referring to?

I do hope you "have it off" more often than there are "Bank Holidays" - or has some-one "had it off" with the banks already or have they just said: "I've had it. I'm off?".

Alistair Hosie
02-03-2009, 09:01 AM
cARLD YOU ARE CORRECT TYHE SCOTS HISTORICALLY HAVE BEEN A LOT FIGHTING THOSE WHO INVADED RATHERE THAN INVADERS themselves .Alistair

J Tiers
02-03-2009, 09:01 AM
Overall it appears to me that the EU faces a choice.

It cannot continue to maintain the fiction that it is possible to have an organization of nations using the US model. I mean independent nations.

Either it MUST recognize that it is merely an "economic union", without political links, OR it must continue and remove ALL the so-called "national governments" and form a single government.

The US model has "states" which are really administrative units, and are in no sense "nations, although Texas and Kalifornia may not agree. No 'state" has control of its borders, which is a basic definition of nationhood. No "state" has a "foreign policy", another basic definition of nationhood.

The EU as independent nations in a "union" makes demands upon member states, but does not provide a one-for-all and all-for-one organization as the US does.

There are not "demands" placed upon the 'states" in the US, their status is known and a given. What one needs is provided from the national resources, as in time of disaster. While that may be poorly executed at times, the need and structure are known, provided, and accepted.

If the EU wants to be a stable and long-term bloc, aside from merely an economic union, it must accept that, and move in that direction. I don't see that happening anytime soon, there is too much "national unity" but I could be wrong.

If it wants to be an economic union only, it must not set political requirements on its members, and it must limit the amount of "border-elimination" to purely economic matters of trade only, and not include mass population shifts etc.

Circlip
02-03-2009, 09:05 AM
And for Texas and Kaliforne-i-a read France and Germany.

Carld
02-03-2009, 11:05 AM
At some point in this economic mess world wide all the governments involved in world trade are going to have to gather and work out a solution for recovery. I don't think any one nation can save it's self without becoming an isolationist nation and that, I feel, won't work. We are a world market whether we like it or not. Each nations recovery is dependent on the others recovery.

This is what can happen when manufacturing moves from country to counry to find the cheapest workers and overhead. Had everyone kept what they had and just traded among them the market would have eventually ballanced. That is if one countries price is higher than others for a certain product it won't be long before for that producer will cut costs if they are forced to remain in the same location they are.

I don't know a lot about the EU deal but as I saw it develope I had doubts of it's success.

miker
02-03-2009, 04:33 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/mikerr/60deg.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/mikerr/Scan10950.jpg

Rgds

oldtiffie
02-03-2009, 04:54 PM
Nice Michael.

And just which EU (read: metric) thread have we lost this time? We do lose a lot of 'em.

Perhaps we've lost our meter and lowered the tone somewhat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(music)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(music)

We gents from OZ are far far more - well sensitive, gentle (and genteel) and gentlemen - than perhaps are others.

We're SO modest too.

I am sure - well I would hope - that others have noted it and will follow our example.

Perhaps its more in spite of our ancestry and heritage - and culture (we've got HEAPS of THAT) - than because of it.

Now which part of which thread were we at?

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 05:04 PM
As the news broke, the Greeks are having riots. Riot police in gas masks.
The natives are revolting.

So how much does a Grecian Urn? Well, obviously, not enough.
Having looked at a few of their female statues, one soon realises why the saying 'Beware of Greeks baring gifts' came about.

Back to Pythagoras- or the above thread! As easy as pie?

Always a twist!

Norm

tattoomike68
02-03-2009, 06:41 PM
I dont think "Britain headed for collapse" any more or less then the USA or any other country.

We will see some hard times, so plant a garden and stock op on food.

I have some shelves in my basment im going to stock up cases of chili , caned fruits and vegies , toilet paper,soap,water bottles,,

I told my nephew the other day when he was skipping work that he better knock that crap off now, jobs will be tough to find and there is 100 people who wants his job.

Over all im sure everything will bounce back and end up fine. some people like to wear thier tin foil hats and preach doom and gloom but I write them off as nut cases.:cool:

Rustybolt
02-03-2009, 07:06 PM
I have some shelves in my basment im going to stock up cases of chili , caned fruits and vegies , toilet paper,soap,water bottles,,



Why? Are they going to stop making all that stuff?

tattoomike68
02-03-2009, 07:13 PM
I have some shelves in my basment im going to stock up cases of chili , caned fruits and vegies , toilet paper,soap,water bottles,,



Why? Are they going to stop making all that stuff?

No just saving for a rainy day and you can eat cash but it taste like hell.

I used to bone some fine morman chicks when i was yonger and it was like a grocery store in their basment. If times got tough they had food for dinner.

Teenage_Machinist
02-03-2009, 09:24 PM
I don't think that stockpiling of food is going to be so effective as laying up financial security. Getting out of bad banks, gardening, ect.

boslab
02-03-2009, 09:37 PM
The UK in not heading for collapse, neither is the US, however our and your financial systems seem to be doing just that, collapsing like the house of cards that it really is, the problem is with us idiots for trusting the nutters who run the banks with our future, our respective goverments have gone to great lengths to bail out the banks, not the economy which from all acounts they think can fend for itself, the closest to anything aproaching sensible as far as the economy is concerned is printed on, it says 'In god we trust', they should add all others pay cash.
mark

J Tiers
02-03-2009, 11:29 PM
I suppose I should have added that the UK seems to be in a sort of"we're in, but only halfway" status in the EU. Or has that now been all corrected?

If not, then the UK may not even get the respect due to a committed union member.

Now that the local St Louis newspaper reads like the "Norwalk Reflector" (a very small town newspaper), and you have to listen to both NPR and Fox and split the difference to get a halfway diverse viewpoint, we get a bit shortchanged at times on "furrin" news, unless its about the ex-governor of Illinois. So I might be behind the times.

As for the jerks who got us into this mess, most all of them are out without a stain. They got their 18 billion of payouts, taken from us, to add insult to injury. Even the ones who got public "thrashings" for their activities (reference John Thain) still got to keep the money.

And, would you believe that corporate boards have to bribe the heck out of potential CEOs etc to get them to take a position in which they have apparently unbridled powers to rape and pillage the corporation? As much as 40 million just to take the job, not counting what they can get from it after that.

They should pay for the privilege..... auction it off, maybe. Surely no bribe is required.

As for the argument that you have to do that in order to get the best people..... look at the results. If those are the best qualified people, I'm the Pope in Rome. They look more like the bad kings of Israel, or Attila the Hun.

Assuming that the corporation actually employs any productive workers, at middle-level salaries of $50,000 per year ....... that means that just the BRIBE to get the turkey to take the job, is 800 times what a middle-level worker makes. After that the turkey gets a salary also.

Versus a minimum wage broom pusher, the BRIBE alone is almost 3000 times that worker's annual income, based on 2000 hours work annually.

Now, I'm not by any means a bolshie, but numbers like that are enough to get me prying up the paving stones. They just do NOT represent the work ethic of the traditional US, "American dream", etc.

oldtiffie
02-04-2009, 12:08 AM
Look,
I can sort of understand the griping, but it was YOUR politicians and Legislators/Lawmakers who were voted in by YOU to look after YOUR interests that both let this situation develop and apparently did little or nothing to correct the situation and the Law and/or the enforcement of any law/s.

If the "fat cats" did nothing that was illegal or that they could be held accountable or liable for under the laws as they are or stood, then they are guilty of nothing and will and perhaps should retain what they acquired and as many object to.

"Moral" and "Ethical" issues are for the moralisers, Philosophers, Ethicists and Clerics, all of whom have been conspicuous by their absence and lack of advice, initiative and leadership on these moral and ethical and now social issues.

Its going to be a long hard road back - if we ever get back to where we were.

But do we need to or really want to?

J Tiers
02-04-2009, 12:19 AM
Look,
I can sort of understand the griping, but it was YOUR politicians and Legislators/Lawmakers who were voted in by YOU to look after YOUR interests that both let this situation develop and apparently did little or nothing to correct the situation and the Law and/or the enforcement of any law/s.

If the "fat cats" did nothing that was illegal or that they could be held accountable or liable for under the laws as they are or stood, then they are guilty of nothing and will and perhaps should retain what they acquired and as many object to.


That's a bit rich............

With a whole industry full of folks trying their hardest to develop schemes SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE REGULATION, it is hardly surprising that they managed to succeed.

Did some mundane stuff go un-noticed? Sure.... Bernard Madoff should have been caught far earlier.

And Alan Greenspan would not clamp down on unsecured loans. Just wouldn't, although he had the authority. He was NOT elected, in case you had not noticed that fact...... he was appointed and confirmed, and after that it was more difficult to get rid of him..... as a respected and even revered person (until this year of course).....

But some of these schemes didn't exist until recently enough that they could not have been regulated until they were probably already above critical mass.

tony ennis
02-04-2009, 01:51 AM
but it was YOUR politicians and Legislators/Lawmakers who were voted in by YOU to look after YOUR interests that both let this situation develop and apparently did little or nothing to correct the situation

Yep. Half the US Congress was trying to legislate prosperity at all costs* while the other half didn't have the stones to stop the madness. All the while the corrupt heads of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pretended there was no problem. And Congress was willingly led astray.

* for example, welfare was counted as "income" when applying for loans.

That being said, you don't have trillions of dollars of value disappear overnight and not have some fraud committed. Someone knew the notes were worthless. What amazes me is that it isn't being investigated AFAIK.

Norman Atkinson
02-04-2009, 05:42 AM
The topic was 'Britain'

Am I to ssume that you lot are actually wanting to return to being a British Colony?

Now there IS a thought.

Norm

Circlip
02-04-2009, 06:00 AM
World market?? So BHO's Clamp imports and buy home made goods is part of this??

Regards, an exporter

Norman Atkinson
02-04-2009, 06:13 AM
Ian- but Harley Davidson is SAVED! Saved, I tell you, SAVED!

It's bit like Crossing the Red Sea ( with a Hamas rocket) or putting a rocket into space( Iranian ,of course).

The rest of the World can now sit back and breathe a sigh of relief- ALL IS WELL.

Well?

Norm

Norman Atkinson
02-04-2009, 06:37 AM
So Alastair and co, the offspring of Maggie's wedding( joke- for the Scottish Country Dance Society) has performed yet another dance- the Golliwog's Cakewalk.

One brat gets lost in Africa and another is told to get lost.

One Brit collapsed- with laughter. Two Teddy Bears Short of a Picnic?

Circlip
02-04-2009, 06:42 AM
Sadly, haven't been able to get a decent jar of jam since 2001.

.RC.
02-04-2009, 06:45 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/mikerr/60deg.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/mikerr/Scan10950.jpg

Rgds

Jesus I hate metric threads with a passion, look at the abortion of thread pitches there..bloody stupidity..

Anyway, back on topic...

Norman Atkinson
02-04-2009, 07:03 AM
Ian- Perhaps a conservative view of London by a former Obituary writer.

Moved from jam to traffic jam!

Or 'Oh Delia. Oh Delia, the Bitch of the Food'-

More than a musical comedy, methinks

( too cold for Fred's Shed- you'll have to make do with this)

Norm

J Tiers
02-04-2009, 08:33 AM
The topic was 'Britain'


To be perfectly honest....we left because we couldn't stand you-all.

Sorry to be so blunt.

And now, again, the US is apparently being, at least in part, blamed by a resident of a former British prison colony (THEY left because YOU couldn't stand THEM) for the demise of Britain as you knew it.

So perhaps the discussion hasn't wandered so far afield after all.........;)

derekm
02-04-2009, 08:38 AM
Its a rerun of 1947 but this time it wasnt (As far i know) U.S. Government policy.

tony ennis
02-04-2009, 09:41 AM
Am I to ssume that you lot are actually wanting to return to being a British Colony?

No, I like to keep my ruling despots local, thanks for asking.

oil mac
02-04-2009, 10:30 AM
Circlip, I understand how you are not getting good jam The best jam around used to be Robertsons of Paisley Scotland Which was the base of old man robertsons parent factory, The whole caboodle was taken to Manchester another Robertsons factory, bought out by some other mob, no doubt stuffed ! Try Keiller of Dundee, for marmalade--Delicious, or Hartley (english firm ) Excellent, As for me i go to one of the two German firms in my vicinity for jam etc, on quality & cost grounds, does that sound familiar, as to Britains industrial demise ?

Before i forget! One of our beloved politicos,(bless him) spoke out a sound bite on television this week, and stated We should all learn Mandarin, As China will soon be the premier nation Looks to me as though our lot have already thrown in the towel What was the patriotic song of some years back? Rule Britania Britannia rules the waves. What a sad joke nowadays, How i long for the old landscapes of yesteryears, where one could go down some of the side streets, & look into factory buildings & see Brits making things, Thanks a bundle Mr Politician, & Mr Banker for nothing!

Peter N
02-04-2009, 10:51 AM
So Alastair and co, the offspring of Maggie's wedding( joke- for the Scottish Country Dance Society) has performed yet another dance- the Golliwog's Cakewalk.

One brat gets lost in Africa and another is told to get lost.

One Brit collapsed- with laughter. Two Teddy Bears Short of a Picnic?

That made me laugh too Norm.
It's all a bit of a storm in a teacup, or should that be a jam jar?

The last time I was working out in Nigeria around 93-94, we came across a bookshop in Lagos, and there on the shelf were several brand new copies of Blytons 'The Three Gollies".
We bought one for posterity, as by this time you would struggle to find a new copy in the UK.
Didn't seem to bother the Nigerians much.

Peter

fixerdave
02-04-2009, 02:26 PM
Relax... at least you have skills.

Imagine what the financial workers are thinking right now... Lets see, I screwed up managing the money system and everyone is broke. No money left to manage... No useful skills, can't do anything productive - just shuffle numbers... no profit in shuffling zeros around, at least when they're on the left hand side. Oh F---! (or, we're B...ered as it appears the Brits say -- keeping this on topic).

The great depression had 25% unemployment at its peak. Even if it gets worse this time, are you really at the bottom of the hire-ability scale? It was the family-plot farmers that suffered the last go round, this time it will be the office workers. YOU will always be able to find work repairing the cheap Chinese crap that they can't afford to replace now.

Money is relative... right now, we're still stupid-rich compared to a lot of places around the world, but that's changing fast. Wages will even out, and that's going to hurt bad (at least around here) but it's going to happen. Get over it. Just realise that all of what you pay for is actually other people's wages, and most of that is wages for people fairly near to you. Your town probably won't turn into a Bombay slum, but the days of staring at a Chinese toaster and wondering how they can make it and ship it all the way over here for so cheap will be gone. The toaster will cost what it's really worth, not some low-ball number dependent on cheap labour, so cheap it drowns out the shipping costs. Manufacturing jobs will start returning to the point of consumption; office jobs, that don't have shipping costs attached, will go where it's cheapest.

Now, that would be poetic justice... the real jobs come back home and the bean-counters get outsourced :) It's bound to happen sooner or later. Just hunker down and hope everyone can survive until it does.

(edit for typo)

Davek0974
02-04-2009, 03:10 PM
How i long for the old landscapes of yesteryears, where one could go down some of the side streets, & look into factory buildings & see Brits making things, Thanks a bundle Mr Politician, & Mr Banker for nothing!

I can remember walking home from school, i had to pass a pencil factory in Tottenham, North London, i stood and watched the machines and people working for way too long, mesmerised by the noise and goings on. There were men loading the massive machines at one end and women unloading and packing at the other, the whole place was filthy, probably due to the graphite but there was usually a bit of a sing-song going on and it was always very busy. I think it was the pungent smell that made the memory stick so well, good days (1979).


Now, that would be poetic justice... the real jobs come back home and the bean-counters get outsources It's bound to happen sooner or later. Just hunker down and hope everyone can survive until it does.

Now that would be sweet. :)

Looking into our industrial past, it was quite common for a company to have the whole production process in-house, including steel production, forging, machining, fitting and so on right through to the finished item. Steam trains were one item, one factory could turn out 10 massive loco's per month at the peak. No parts transport costs from one factory to the next and a massive skills base in employment. Thats the sort of manufacturing i think we need again.

tony ennis
02-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Thats the sort of manufacturing i think we need again.

And you can have it! If you work for $2 an hour. And OSHA regs are relaxed.

aboard_epsilon
02-04-2009, 03:38 PM
New UK Royal Mail advert

claiming that they are helping thousands of businesses to grow

funny thing is ...everything looks Chinese ..

Take a look, few glimpses of lathes (look Chinese) ..milling cutters ..And the end product ...definatly Chinese.

Don't forget to press the high quality button on the lower right of the screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnN3sbtfPVE

All the best.markj

Davek0974
02-04-2009, 04:11 PM
New UK Royal Mail advert

claiming that they are helping thousands of businesses to grow

funny thing is ...everything looks Chinese ..

Take a look, few glimpses of lathes (look Chinese) ..milling cutters ..And the end product ...definatly Chinese.

Don't forget to press the high quality button on the lower right of the screen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnN3sbtfPVE

All the best.markj

He He, That advert sucks, it shows a printing machine running really fast printing a sheet with fish on i believe. Its a "Heidelberg Cylinder" and i have four at work, they were built around 1960 and were letterpress machines running lead type. They are very slow and only capable of printing one colour at a time, we use them for die-cutting now as printing is now done using the offset process not letterpress.

Maybe they still use them in China?? :) Its odd that they think people will connect such an old machine with progress? Definately an oriental feel to the advert. They could really help businesses grow if they lowered prices and didnt loose so much post.

Edit..
On closer inspection of the video, it appears the printing parts have been stripped off so they can only be cutting as we do, the job is the wrapping around the ugly doll/figure thingy in the box.


Dave

.RC.
02-05-2009, 01:23 AM
Looks like we are ****ed as well.....Our retarded leaders want to borrow up to $200 billion from the IMF....This is $10 000 for every man woman and child in the country...

oldtiffie
02-05-2009, 01:33 AM
That's true Ringer.

But I am sure that our intrepid Leader and his cohorts will "correct" your "retarded" to "advanced" and "leading edge".

They are busy throwing it around in a manner somewhere between a one-armed Paper-hanger and confetti at a wedding.

Apparently is more important to be seen to be "doing something (positive??)" although I'd bet that it has a lot more to do with avoiding or delaying a technical Recession and getting re-elected.

Or am I too much of a cynic - again?

Davek0974
02-05-2009, 02:49 AM
They are busy throwing it around in a manner somewhere between a one-armed Paper-hanger and confetti at a wedding.

LOL :D :D

I cant wait for someone to dare mention how we are expected to pay all this ridiculous borrowing back?:eek:

Dave

Peter S
02-05-2009, 07:01 AM
"Britain headed for collapse" - interesting to know how many times this has been suggested over the decades. I happen to know an extended family who left just after WW2, convinced the country was finished, broke and with the government nationalising industry, transport etc. socialism on the rise.

(Maybe it wasn't just Mrs Thatcher who caused all the problems? Talk about a scapegoat....)

My own forebears left Scotland and England in the 1920's, heading for lands of opportunity, those of us "out here" wonder what keeps the rest of you back....(except for Norman, I don't think he would go down well at all out here :()

BTW, I have Kiwi friends who have worked in the UK in factories etc. - big differences to working in NZ. UK workers don't talk to the boss (class difference) but Kiwi workers do, no class difference, what does class mean?) shock horror, so communication results.) Basic Kiwi reponse - leave as soon as possible, what a bunch of disgruntled loosers...

.RC.
02-05-2009, 07:16 AM
Peter, some of my ancestors left Britain in 1787...They won some sort of lottery system that gave them free passage to a brand new country...

MickeyD
02-05-2009, 08:44 AM
The historical way for a country to get out of a pickle like this was to invade and loot another country. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on which side you are on) our weapons systems cost so much now that we cannot really do that anymore.

Norman Atkinson
02-05-2009, 08:46 AM
Well PeterS, I would not fit in in KiwiKorner.
No one wants a shell of a kid who left school at the age of 14 with no education having had 5 years of a 6 year war.

I'm a loser( one OH!) my English is shaky but better than most.
After all, who would want anyone that hasn't had to work for the last 25 years?

Think again, few Kiwis had gone through what my generation have gone through. You clearly have much to learn.

Talk to the grumpy old men- us happy few.

It's called 'survival' and it is the same old challenge that we faced as children.
But, my dear chap, we once snotty little kids of yesterday are still in contention.

New Zealand? It may not be the challenge. After all, nothing exciting other than a good rugby game ever happened on your side of the Tasman.

Circlip
02-05-2009, 09:16 AM
"Not working for $2 an hour" 'sgonna happen Tony,

"Loot and pillage another country" So how have we gone so wrong in Iraq MickeyD ??

The bottom line is, no matter how we try to deny it, the basic problem is greed. No one has forced individuals to "Borrow" money, the lenders have done an exellent job in turnover, so why start pointing the finger at them? No matter what our illustrious leaders may think, we can't buy our way out, the only way is to work (Alien word for lots) our way out.

Lets all take a leaf from the brave lads at Immingham. What a set of tossers, hope the rest of the world where British workers are employed doesn't take the same local labour attitude. Panasonic closing its Tele plants down, where's yer 42" Plasma going to come from and how are you going to be able to AFFORD it, Make them HERE?? yep we've got the technology but it would cost 6 times MORE cos we've all got to be paid 800 a week. Oh, bugger, here we go again.

Let's all go plant another money tree.

Regards Ian. :rolleyes:

Norman Atkinson
02-05-2009, 10:14 AM
The bank rate dropped to 1% and after tax at 40% Standard Rate, it leaves 60pence in the pound If you need a calculator, you invest a 100 which has already been taxed on savings at 40%, you get 60p.
60p actually buys a postage stamp, no envelope, no paper, no ink-- A bloody stamp.

Actually, on the 6th April one completes one's tax return and has to post one's income details - with the F***ing stamp. Later, you get a bill and write a cheque to pay it- and have to find-----another F***ing postage stamp.

It's called Socialism.

Little wonder that people like PeterS can't spell. If it's like that in NZ, who could afford a dictionary?

Err- uhm?

BillH
02-05-2009, 10:18 AM
The Euro/GBP stays strong against the USD. I hope that the economies of Europe stay strong and do not enter a depression. If they do, I will be forced out of Aviation.

Norman Atkinson
02-05-2009, 10:30 AM
So Bill, you could get a pot of glue and a feather pillow and be the second Icarus.

Isn't life a bugger? Soon people will be complaining that they have nothing to eat.

Fancy that!

N

tony ennis
02-05-2009, 10:36 AM
"Not working for $2 an hour" 'sgonna happen Tony,

Yep. And that is why heavy industry will disappear from the UK - and the US - forever. Every plant closing is like a big ratchet going, "click."

Until the Big Reset happens and labor becomes affordable in our countries again.

SDL
02-05-2009, 12:36 PM
Yep. And that is why heavy industry will disappear from the UK - and the US - forever. Every plant closing is like a big ratchet going, "click.".

heavy Industry disapeared in the 80s and 90s were were meant to be all hi tech and Finance:o

Steve Larner

BillH
02-05-2009, 12:46 PM
So Bill, you could get a pot of glue and a feather pillow and be the second Icarus.

Isn't life a bugger? Soon people will be complaining that they have nothing to eat.

Fancy that!

N
That is one of my favorite Iron Maiden songs. Fly like an Eagle... Oh your talking about Greek Mythology...
Yeh, Hey, nothing to eat? GREAT! I'll lose the last 75lbs I need to get rid of!

Norman Atkinson
02-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Icarus of Greek Legend? BillH, do I really think that this is a place of such culture?

Try 'Eddie, the Eagle'

( Fain would I climb, yet fear I to fall?
Now then?)

N

But the reply is ?

tony ennis
02-05-2009, 01:42 PM
'Eddie the Eagle' caused the British Olympic regulation people to change their rules, lol. Now to represent Britain a person must have a reasonable chance of finishing in the top half of the field, I believe.

Peter S
02-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Norman,

Spelling aside, I shouldn't have written the last bit, it was too late at night and I regret it now (that is my poor excuse, sort of like your excuse about being old etc :)).

You obviously know nothing about NZ in depression and wartime (or anytime), so better then not to comment.


---------------

Britain is still a mighty economy no matter what the doomsayers say. Only recently lost the 5th spot in world-ranked size of economy to China. Sort of puts China's 'achievements' in perspective (for a short time anyway). Its hard to see the way ahead for Britain lies in those traditional industries fondly mentioned here though, is it possible to manufacture competitively in such a (very) expensive economy?

I am reminded of the recent American Presidential elections where candidates were fond of saying "the American worker is the best in the world". Why did they not face their people honestly and admit that workers elsewhere work just as hard (if not harder), often do it for less (and live on less), and have the desire to do a good job too and improve their lot. Seemed like they wanted everyone to continue in a dream world...

SDL
02-05-2009, 02:40 PM
Norman,
Its hard to see the way ahead for Britain lies in those traditional industries fondly mentioned here though, is it possible to manufacture competitively in such a (very) expensive economy?
..

It is possible still to compete. i work in UV Disinfection of water and we export 70% of what we make and it looks like we are going to be more competitive for a while. As an aside we supply some of the top Chip (Processors) makers in the world, so it is possible to compete from the UK just not churning out comodity stuff with unskilled labour,

Steve Larner

Dave P.
02-05-2009, 03:13 PM
LOL :D :D

I cant wait for someone to dare mention how we are expected to pay all this ridiculous borrowing back?:eek:

Dave

Ah.........you mean that sooner or later....we've....got...to pay
for all this free money our government is going to give away?
You don't mean us, the poor peon taxpayers...can't be.
Gee, I wonder if all those bright people in Washington Know this?
Somebody should tell them before it's too late.
Dave P.

oldtiffie
02-05-2009, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Davek0974
LOL

I cant wait for someone to dare mention how we are expected to pay all this ridiculous borrowing back?

Dave


Ah.........you mean that sooner or later....we've....got...to pay
for all this free money our government is going to give away?
You don't mean us, the poor peon taxpayers...can't be.
Gee, I wonder if all those bright people in Washington Know this?
Somebody should tell them before it's too late.
Dave P.

IF its ever fully paid back!!

I suspect that it will be continually deferred by just paying "interest only" (and little or no capital) off and/or repeatedly "re-financing" it at ever increasing cost and compromise.

This will be a classic "back-burner" job or just wishful (wistful??) "if we ignore it, it will go away" stuff.

Nobody with money or power will want to address the issue/s.They will just be left to "others" and/or "later" by which time most in power etc. will be "out of it" and nicely pensioned off in a happy retirement - but not before they've covered their tracks and "forgiven" themselves and each other. There is going to be a lot of "ducking and weaving".

The younger people have a lot to look forward to and not much to be thankful for having to deal with a mess neither to their liking nor of their making.

I don't think that many today will be the "Good Guys" in the bed-time stories that the kids tell their kids (Our Grand kids) about the "Good?? Old Days" when Grandpa and his lot (US!!!) stuffed it up.

Norman Atkinson
02-05-2009, 06:05 PM
I was thinking what PeterS said.
I had planned for 14 days by first class Eurostar into the French Alps next month. I am booked for 14 more in Spain and then a month and into Austria and then back to Spain again. That is with trips to Scotland- I was Aviemoron.

Last night, my Chinese brothers and I were away from the Year of the Ox and other things and were having a knees up, dinner and so on.
Did Brother Norman want to come to HongKong for a repeat visit?
You know, University Lodge of HK and - well, a luxury yacht at our disposal as before.

Really, two questions were uppermost, the first one was could I find the time and the second was--- What Bloody British Collapse?


None of my mates are having problems which we can't cope.
The Chinese learned in the lean hungry days to eat anything which would not kill them. I can go along with that. They have the capacity for hard work, I haven't done any for 25 years but I could learn again!

Quite?

Norm

Teenage_Machinist
02-05-2009, 11:50 PM
THe return of Labor will be the return of the socialism most hoped for.

Norman Atkinson
02-06-2009, 03:28 AM
I'm afraid that that T.M's lofty ideals do not work.
I recall the rise of socialism, communism and whatever-schism over the years since the Great Crash in 1929. I was born in 1930 so I sort of grew up with these ideals and in an environment of depression and poverty at first hand.

We Brits had Nationalisation immediately after the War with the NHS, gas and electricity, railways and roads, banks and a raft of other things. None are now working and the thing is now a shambles. What happened was that greed of workers took over in every one of the industries. People milked the system.

Again, Russia attempted to take over the idealogical world and industry. Today,all the satellites and the former USSR are fragmented and full of sleaze.
China is going through a somewhat later 'break up'. It is a hotchpotch of socialism and communism and industrialism.

Again, China will fail because people will revert to selfish greed.

You can call 'Selfish Greed' by a lot of names.
Sadly, you are exhibiting that feature. You have constantly asked people for advice. You have done nothing to return the goodwill of many, many kind people here.

That, my young friend, is Selfish Greed.

The story is an old one. The Jews despised the people of Samaria. A man was beaten up and left to die. His own people, the Jews, passed him by.
They were selfish. But one Samarian found the man and gave his clothes and cared for him.

I, too, wear the Cross. I'm not very good- but I try.

Pax Vobiscum

Norman

oldtiffie
02-06-2009, 03:39 AM
TM,
it just might surprise you to know - given that the thread relates to Britain aka UK - that it currently has a socialist Labour Government in power and has had for quite a while.

Great Britain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland aka UK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Politics of the UK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

Elections in the UK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_United_Kingdom

There are some terms being tossed around that accordingly may refer to something quite different. So a short read and acquaintance with meanings is recommended:

Socialism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Communism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Capitalism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

[Edit]
As Norm has mentioned nationalisation, I thought it too could do with some description and clarification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalisation

The US has "form" in that regard but nowhere near a lot of others (see previous link):


United States
1917: All U.S. railroads were nationalized as the Railroad Administration during World War I as a wartime measure, but were returned to their private owners almost immediately after the war.
1939: Organization of the Tennessee Valley Authority entailed the nationalization of the facilities of the former Tennessee Electric Power Company.
1971: The National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) is a government-owned corporation created in 1971 for the express purpose of relieving American railroads of their legal obligation to provide inter-city passenger rail service. The (primarily) freight railroads had petitioned to abandon passenger service repeatedly in the decades leading up to Amtrak's formation.
1976: The Consolidated Rail Corporation (Conrail), another government corporation, was created to take over the operations of six bankrupt rail lines operating primarily in the Northeast; Conrail was privatized in 1987. Initial plans for Conrail would have made it a truly nationalized system like that during World War I, but an alternate proposal by the Association of American Railroads won out.
2001: In response to the September 11 attacks, the then-private airport security industry was nationalized and put under the authority of the Transportation Security Administration.
2008: Some economists consider the U.S. government's takeover of the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation and Federal National Mortgage Association to have been nationalization.[16][17]

A good (???) recent example in the UK (there are others):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Rock_Bank

There may well be others in fact and pending in the US and elsewhere.

[End edit]

Circlip
02-06-2009, 09:12 AM
Given your interest in the work ethics of the masses and minions T.M. a piece of ESSENTIAL watching is a 60's BRITISH film, ( Oh yes, we did used to make them) starring Peter Sellers called "I'm alright Jack". It's in glorious black and white, which adds to the intensity, and sums up the general attitude to employment. You may have to watch it quite a few times to be able to appreciate the subtulties of British humor but after you've sat and digested it, you may be able to appreciate what a few of us are rabbiting about.

Regards Ian.

Norman Atkinson
02-06-2009, 12:14 PM
I always studied politics by watching 'Clochemerle'

One does get 'prostrate' with the humour. Another best 'Seller(s)'

I read it 'A l'ecole' in the original French and watched Fernandel and then the British version. I would think that French and American 'Watergates' have remarkably similar outcomes.

I mean- this is Beaujolais Country and Macon and McDonalds with Le Best of **** avec Beaujolais and a Fine Time( Beau Jolais) was had by all, well, almost all!

Bon Soir les voyeurs

Norm

BillH
02-06-2009, 01:08 PM
THe return of Labor will be the return of the socialism most hoped for.
If we lived in the McCarthy era, I'd have you sent away

Davek0974
02-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Ok, so we've realised that the UK is going down the Shanks and we dont know if its a recession or depression now.

The great Jeremy Clarkson is in trouble for telling it like it is and calling Mr Brown a "one-eyed Scottish idiot" but has apologised to the Scots and disabled people!

We've got more snow than we can handle and the buses in London are shut down for the first time ever.

But what if, and i'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek, what if the powers that be turned round and announced that all the debt that has and is being raised is wiped out by just printing a ****-load of new cash and righting the books back to zero balance????

I guess that all countries would need to do the same, but what if?

aboard_epsilon
02-06-2009, 03:00 PM
But what if, and i'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek, what if the powers that be turned round and announced that all the debt that has and is being raised is wiped out by just printing a ****-load of new cash and righting the books back to zero balance????

I guess that all countries would need to do the same, but what if?

YEAH....sure put Robert Mugabwe in charge ..he'll get more money printed , we'll all have to tow trailers full of cash around with us .

least i'll have something to light the fire with :) and keep me warm.

all the best.markj

Circlip
02-06-2009, 03:47 PM
There ain't no reset button in the REAL world, the sh*t IS on the fan. What I find strange is the number of people out there that seem to think that the situation will go away and everything in the garden is going to be back like it was. Recession ON, Click, Ressesion Off. Sad.

Regards Ian.

Timleech
02-06-2009, 04:07 PM
The great Jeremy Clarkson is in trouble for telling it like it is and calling Mr Brown a "one-eyed Scottish idiot" but has apologised to the Scots and disabled people!

We've got more snow than we can handle and the buses in London are shut down for the first time ever.

But what if, and i'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek, what if the powers that be turned round and announced that all the debt that has and is being raised is wiped out by just printing a ****-load of new cash and righting the books back to zero balance????

I guess that all countries would need to do the same, but what if?

I'm not a huge Brown fan but Clarkson is a pillock of the first water IMO, & I think it's only the 'one eyed' comment he apologised for.

I believe there's already a degree of extra money printing going on, too much of it leads to inflation AIUI (not my subject I have to admit). Zimbabwe anyone?


Tim

Peter S
02-06-2009, 05:22 PM
You have done nothing to return the goodwill of many, many kind people here.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Norman Atkinson
02-06-2009, 05:46 PM
I got a note of thanks from Pherdie on these last few pages.

Sufficient un 2 the day is the foulness their inn

Honi soit qui mal y pense.
N

oldtiffie
02-06-2009, 06:43 PM
I was thinking what PeterS said.
I had planned for 14 days by first class Eurostar into the French Alps next month. I am booked for 14 more in Spain and then a month and into Austria and then back to Spain again. That is with trips to Scotland- I was Aviemoron.

Last night, my Chinese brothers and I were away from the Year of the Ox and other things and were having a knees up, dinner and so on.
Did Brother Norman want to come to HongKong for a repeat visit?
You know, University Lodge of HK and - well, a luxury yacht at our disposal as before.

Really, two questions were uppermost, the first one was could I find the time and the second was--- What Bloody British Collapse?


None of my mates are having problems which we can't cope.
The Chinese learned in the lean hungry days to eat anything which would not kill them. I can go along with that. They have the capacity for hard work, I haven't done any for 25 years but I could learn again!

Quite?

Norm

Norm,

It is with considerable regret and reluctance that I post this message. I have delayed posting it in the now seemingly forlorn hope that things might correct themselves - but it seems not.

I don't think you will endear yourself to many and especially those that are "doing it tough" or "on the edge" in these difficult and straightened times by showing off your wealth, connections and memberships of Lodges as it will not earn or keep any respect for you. To then grizzle about the price of a postage stamp or two in a recent thread in this context is neither fruitful nor "in good taste".

I would doubt that your Lodge members or your hosts would appreciate this allusion to their perceived wealth and power as if membership is for very rich. It isn't. In this situation I would refer you to your Initiation and the Tyler's Toast. Some Lodge members here in OZ at least - at ALL levels - would be MOST concerned if a member here in OZ did as you have in a public forum such as this is and may well take correct measures to remedy the matters.

A lot more sensitivity and humility as well as a lot less braggadocio would be highly regarded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braggadocio

Norman Atkinson
02-06-2009, 07:22 PM
There is, Tiff, a far older reference. you may have forgotten it.
It comes from the Koran(Queran) and it is 'A small contribution to the Tree that giveth food and shelter'

We can each translate that as we wish but it is a cold reminder of 'getting something for nothing' In that case, I was refering to those who actually contribute nothing and take everything.

Again, there has been repeated references to Britain's failing economy.
My experience is that there is little difference in what each country is going through. Nevertheless, it is a piss taking exercise to denigrate one country.

At this point, all you have to go on is second hand or umpteenth hand information about our affairs- and with the most vehement remark is 'What has it got to do with you?' Your responsibility is to have the government which you elect.

Let's turn to my side of associations. Hundreds of thousands of pounds are being collected for charity and there is no or little sign of a downturn in this.

In my own affairs, there is no sign of a downturn in travel abroad. People- ordinary people are holidaying and planning their holidays. And in that context so am I. Nothing to do with my freemasonry- I made my main economic decisions years and years ago- with reference to what I was trained to do.

Enough!

Norman

speedy
02-06-2009, 11:06 PM
The great Jeremy Clarkson is in trouble for telling it like it is and calling Mr Brown a "one-eyed Scottish idiot" but has apologised to the Scots and disabled people!
Spike had 'Fluffy Bum' the one eyed cat. Does Mr Brown have a similar perspective?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/assorted%20images/FluffyBumtheoneeyedcat.jpg

I'm semi-crippled and I couldn't give a flying F how anyone articulates it. Disabled , physically challenged, it still means the same thing

oldtiffie
02-07-2009, 12:23 AM
Onya Ken.

Say it as it is - and hit 'em right between the eyes.

Most of the disabled people I know just want a fair go and not to be patronised - in other words, just to be treated as equals. I'd agree with that.

My view on this bloody omnipresent and ubiquitous "PC" crap.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/pumpkin1.jpg

What that cat might do if it had the balls for it:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/machine-gun-cat-animation.gif

And what might be said and done in a non-PC world (loved this one):
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/Get_rid_of_cat.jpg

And this is what "saying it as it is" about our PC "heroes" is all about:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/Men-n-shoes.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/Modern_man1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/Ultimatum1.jpg

They wish:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/EverymansfavoriteXmasPresent1.jpg

speedy
02-07-2009, 01:56 AM
They wish:http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Funnies/EverymansfavoriteXmasPresent1.jpg

I have one of those but its function is intermittant... I think the problem is with the battery.
Not enough energy:)

Norman Atkinson
02-07-2009, 03:11 AM
Ken,
I, too, am disabled. Nothing serious. Merely serving one's country.
My wife, too, is disabled.

This morning we are both having to face extraordinary problems with the down turn of the British Economy. My wife will have problems in parking the car to buy our meagre rations. There will be so many cars on supermarket plots that she will have difficulty in parking. As she shuffles her crippled way to the checkouts, she will have to queue and queue because of the thousands milling about. A True sign that Britain has no money.
She was borrowed my little car because it is small enough to squeeze in -eventually. Britain is now so poor that the roads are clogged.

Her own car has developed a fault. With my recent op., I am unable to lift anything heavy. The main dealer gave me THREE weeks to take the job on.
It must be tough economic conditions in the motor trade to give such a short lead time now. The car only cost 30,000 and is unimportant. There are better catches to be had.

I have to take the car into the centre of town, it is Saturday and yesterday, I walked a mile and a mile back because of the cars which have brought commuters in to - do nothing or work? If they are working, it buggers the claim about a downturn. If they are not, they must be keen to walk all those miles to a shop. One cannot have both! Whatever it is, my repair by a desperate repairer will take into next week- for a five minute job.

Here, the building industry is at a standstill. However, a huge extension is going up on a neighbour's house and across my wall, a new row of house is going up. My son has just sold one house, let another and bought a brand new one. He is not an exception by any shade of imagination and the prices are rising. This is a stone's throw from Northern Rock's HQ!

OK, I'm going on a jaunt and I phoned up Eurostar to head for the Alps-- and the train is so full that we had to change our dates and prices!

Despite all this gloom, is the knowledge that people are still coming into the UK- because they claim that it is worth the move.

To get nearer home, the correspondence here is visitors are more than worried about costs, more worried about food, more worried about hotels and transport.

What is there to be worried about? If Britain is down the pan, the Brits should be screaming for the extra dollar. Frankly, it is not the case.

Someone is telling lies. Bugger, I am in the non existent traffic in a minute.

Go figure?

Regards

Norman

Davek0974
02-07-2009, 03:28 AM
Ok so pouring new money in is bad.

I think i'll start making my own. This is an engineering forum after all. Now what sort of billet material do i need to press 1 coins out of??:)

Probably surgical aircraft grade stuff:)

speedy
02-07-2009, 05:39 AM
Aye Norm; wealth & poverty are relative terms. As is traffic congestion and Supermarket parking; just ask anyone from central Auckland or Maungaturoto.

Gotta go now, cos there is excitement in the air, I can hear a rugger game playing in the corner somewhere.
In the meantime please sit back, relax and listen to the NZ national anthem circa 1991(?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGiQPVlu4l8&feature=related

Some concerned Kiwis forming a plan of action to prevent Britain going down the Sh***er.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phnq0hV2Phc&feature=related
extended coverage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9b21zvLxs&feature=related

edited: I spelt sh***er incorrectly

.RC.
02-07-2009, 07:02 AM
[QUOTE=Davek0974
The great Jeremy Clarkson is in trouble for telling it like it is and calling Mr Brown a "one-eyed Scottish idiot" but has apologised to the Scots and disabled people!

[/QUOTE]

God **** a duck, the country is in financial turmoil and the country is running around like chooks with their heads chopped off because someone called the PM a one eyed Scottish idiot..Obviously a cause for national concern...

Lets all put the financial crisis on hold and instead turn our attention to castigating someone who had the balls to speak his mind..

Your Old Dog
02-07-2009, 07:30 AM
Well crap. I was just getting ready to post something poignant but now I can't get into wikepedia :(

I can say that I've read the entire thread and find no real answers here. The only thing really close to being concise and accurate and true was Chief's post


I find it laughable that many here degrade the British empire, was it wrong? At the time in history it happened no. For all it's faults it gave more than it took.
Britian is failing and American is following along and the reasons for failure are simple, white guilt, political correctness,diversity nonsense, unchecked immigration and surrendering to the cult of Islam. Those who fail to voice their againist these evils are fools. Those who accept these evils are merely feeding the alligator.

and some kid fresh out of school and his liberal education system called him a biggot for saying so! Schools are doing a bang up job aren't they? :D


"SURRENDER TO THE CULT OF ISLAM"

THIS VILE SPEECH WILL NOT GO UNNOTICED!

As a muslim, I find this extremely offensive. "Fundamentalist islam" ok, not that I think that "surrender" really constitiutes anything. Fighting against it has caused trouble for the US which among other things helped screw up the economy. It also allowed the virtual coup on the part of the us Bush Administration where they started to screw up the constitution and go all 1984-ish. But really islamic terrorism has more effect than it should, and islam itself, none.

White Guilt? WTF! Much must still be done before the unending cruelty of the Elder Days and the recent periods will be erased. Still the descendents of the South who have throughly mingled with the culture and the blood of the West are cursed and unconciously hated. I am one of those who was born into a world where the institutionalized racism was not remembered.

Diversity Nonsense: If that means what it seems to mean I will curse you! Affirmative action has been helpful.
Immigration: It needs to be controlled, but not totally controlled.
















Actually, Im atheist, not Islamic. Just screwing with your bigoted mind, Chief and others holding similar opinions.

It seems that the only real people who can answer this dilemma are driving taxi cabs or cutting hair.

aboard_epsilon
02-07-2009, 07:51 AM
Ken,
I, too, am disabled. Nothing serious. Merely serving one's country.
My wife, too, is disabled.

This morning we are both having to face extraordinary problems with the down turn of the British Economy. My wife will have problems in parking the car to buy our meagre rations. There will be so many cars on supermarket plots that she will have difficulty in parking. As she shuffles her crippled way to the checkouts, she will have to queue and queue because of the thousands milling about. A True sign that Britain has no money.
She was borrowed my little car because it is small enough to squeeze in -eventually. Britain is now so poor that the roads are clogged.

Her own car has developed a fault. With my recent op., I am unable to lift anything heavy. The main dealer gave me THREE weeks to take the job on.
It must be tough economic conditions in the motor trade to give such a short lead time now. The car only cost 30,000 and is unimportant. There are better catches to be had.

I have to take the car into the centre of town, it is Saturday and yesterday, I walked a mile and a mile back because of the cars which have brought commuters in to - do nothing or work? If they are working, it buggers the claim about a downturn. If they are not, they must be keen to walk all those miles to a shop. One cannot have both! Whatever it is, my repair by a desperate repairer will take into next week- for a five minute job.

Here, the building industry is at a standstill. However, a huge extension is going up on a neighbour's house and across my wall, a new row of house is going up. My son has just sold one house, let another and bought a brand new one. He is not an exception by any shade of imagination and the prices are rising. This is a stone's throw from Northern Rock's HQ!

OK, I'm going on a jaunt and I phoned up Eurostar to head for the Alps-- and the train is so full that we had to change our dates and prices!

Despite all this gloom, is the knowledge that people are still coming into the UK- because they claim that it is worth the move.

To get nearer home, the correspondence here is visitors are more than worried about costs, more worried about food, more worried about hotels and transport.

What is there to be worried about? If Britain is down the pan, the Brits should be screaming for the extra dollar. Frankly, it is not the case.

Someone is telling lies. Bugger, I am in the non existent traffic in a minute.

Go figure?

Regards

Norman

That's what i call ..a let them eat cake attitude norman.

ALL THE BEST.MARKJ

Rustybolt
02-07-2009, 08:23 AM
Well if things are going that well in GB come and take your little cockney insurance lizard back. He's annoying.

Norman Atkinson
02-07-2009, 08:37 AM
MarkJ,
I've been out. Met up with a bloke in the garage with his RangeRover.
Whilst we were getting our turn, we were 'cracking' on like two proper Geordies. Bonnie Laad came up from the other side of the Biggest Open Sewer in the World to me. Got a house in Darras Hall with the footballers and it costs over half a million quid- and that's just for the main gates to his pad. You know Alan Shearer Country! I reckon that I'm doing 'Canny' but Darras Hall? No way, Hosie!

But this lad is Catholic and he and me recall that bairns with bare feet got shoes from the kindly Catholics in Newcastle. There was a fund to help lads and lasses to get boots to walk to school. No buses unless you lived three miles away!

The point is, Mark, that that fund still exists in Newcastle should the need arise again. You see, one of the Trustees is a good mate. I'm not RC but that need has not struck the place as when we were little.

Not eating cake like Marie Antoinette. We had bread that was bulked up with chalk and even that was rationed.

A few hundred yards from here is Newcastle United's football ground which seats 51,000. Never been, don't know a football from a ball of old clothes!
The rise in season tickets at the start of the season, I am advised, was more than a good second hand Myford.

Now Mark, tell them that you have or had a yacht. It was an Uffa Fox Fox Cub and it was called 'Epsilon' as in Epsilon Aboard which is your E-Mail address.

How are you off for Cake, Eh?

Nos Da

Norman

aboard_epsilon
02-07-2009, 10:50 AM
YACHT YES

but worth less than a service on one of your many cars .

all the best.markj

Davek0974
02-07-2009, 11:42 AM
God **** a duck, the country is in financial turmoil and the country is running around like chooks with their heads chopped off because someone called the PM a one eyed Scottish idiot..Obviously a cause for national concern...

Lets all put the financial crisis on hold and instead turn our attention to castigating someone who had the balls to speak his mind..

Thats not the half of it. The same week, Carol Thatcher was sacked for a comment made between friends in a private room at a tv studio. I'd not only sue for unfair dismissal, i'd find the so-called colleague/friend and insert my boot upto the heel in their arse.

The whole bloody country is being over paranoid about possibly upsetting someone that its a joke. Gordon Brown did not even complain, WTF?

You couldn't make it up.

Peter N
02-07-2009, 01:22 PM
I'd not only sue for unfair dismissal, i'd find the so-called colleague/friend and insert my boot upto the heel in their arse.


Look no further....


http://www.btinternet.com/~p.neill/Jo_Brand.jpg




The whole bloody country is being over paranoid about possibly upsetting someone that its a joke. Gordon Brown did not even complain, WTF?

Nobody seemed to mind when I called him the same thing on here (minus the 'scottish' bit), except Alistair of course, and that doesn't really count :D

Peter

Davek0974
02-07-2009, 03:04 PM
Nobody seemed to mind when I called him the same thing on here (minus the 'scottish' bit), except Alistair of course, and that doesn't really count :D Peter

Thats the thing, every time i heard it on the radio they did not shorten it to "...insulted Gordon Brown" but they read it out in full, emphasising the statement "...called Gordon Brown a one-eyed Scottish idiot"

It made me laugh every time i heard them announce it, i guess they agreed :)

John Stevenson
02-07-2009, 03:15 PM
So I suppose a knighthood is out of the question ??

.

SDL
02-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Thats the thing, every time i heard it on the radio they did not shorten it to "...insulted Gordon Brown" but they read it out in full, emphasising the statement "...called Gordon Brown a one-eyed Scottish idiot"

Should have just removed the one-eyed from the quote then no Argument:D

Steve Larner

Alistair Hosie
02-07-2009, 05:32 PM
would you raTHER have the two eyed english idiot cameron.???Alistair

speedy
02-07-2009, 05:42 PM
would you raTHER have the two eyed english idiot cameron.???Alistair

Well, harumph!! My English ancestry is deeply offended.
I do hope that you will have the good grace to withdraw that remark and apologise Alistair (in your most sincere Scots' manner ) .

oldtiffie
02-07-2009, 05:43 PM
God **** a duck, the country is in financial turmoil and the country is running around like chooks with their heads chopped off because someone called the PM a one eyed Scottish idiot..Obviously a cause for national concern...

Lets all put the financial crisis on hold and instead turn our attention to castigating someone who had the balls to speak his mind..

'zactly so Ringer - well said.


So I suppose a knighthood is out of the question ??

.

Nup John.

No Knighthood - sorry.

Just a "Peerage" - peering out of the eye of Ken's one-eyed cat (Spike Milligan's). But I think the eye "blinked" as I can't tell whether the "Peerage" is peering in or out. (Is that true cat skin - or Ermine on that "Peerage" cat?).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/speeedy/assorted%20images/FluffyBumtheoneeyedcat.jpg

Maybe it got pinched by Carol Thatcher's "Golliwog".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog

I think that too many are $hit frightened about the other "Thought Police" and being just too cute and too "PC" while all the time being Thought Police themselves.

George Orwell lives (1984):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_police

I think that a good read of the "Noddy" books will do a lot of good. They are my Reference Books - lot better than "Machinery's handbook".

Seems to be a lot of Noddy's mate "Big Ears" around too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noddy_(character)

Spike Milligan and the "Goons" would have a picnic here!!

Where are ya when we need ya Spike?

Lets have "Noddy" and/or Spike M for King or Prez - that should sort it out.

Great Britain will survive as it always has after all the crisis-es it has had over the millennia.

My comments to the "Scare-dy cats" - BOO!!!

I wish I hadn't said that as that cat $hit stinks like you would not believe.

Peter N
02-07-2009, 05:54 PM
would you raTHER have the two eyed english idiot cameron.???Alistair

Yes.
And according to every single poll for the last couple of years, so would the vast majority of this Nation.
The one-eyed moron is desperately clinging on to his Unelected position tighter than a hooker to her only trick of the night.
But at least the hooker will be gone in the morning.....if only we could say the same of Brown.

Peter

Alistair Hosie
02-07-2009, 06:09 PM
I am as usual just winding a few of you up in response to anti Scottish comments.When I was a young man just qualified in the dental business I went to London and lived for a few years I met there and since later when I owned a hotel which catered for coach parties of mostly english people I was always treated wonderfully by all of them and developed a great admiration for the lovely English people and I have always held them in deepest regard and so therefore apart from a little humour I will not be slagging them off in any or with any sense of sincerity.The London People were wonderful and were both maternal and paternal to a young man in his early twenties .No No racist comments from me I sincerely love the English whom I consider to be our brothers and sisters. Alistair

oldtiffie
02-07-2009, 06:21 PM
Your typing has REALLY improved Alistair - what caused that?

I hope it stays that way.

John Stevenson
02-07-2009, 06:29 PM
The London People were wonderful and were both maternal and paternal to a young man in his early twenties .No No racist comments from me I sincerely love the English whom I consider to be our brothers and sisters. Alistair

Bollocks, you're pissed again.

.

speedy
02-07-2009, 06:32 PM
I am as usual just winding a few of you up-----The London People were wonderful and were both maternal and paternal to a young man in his early twenties . Alistair

Especially the men and women:D


No No racist comments from me I sincerely love the English whom I consider to be our brothers and sisters.

So, no chance of intermarriage then??

And Alistair, your punctuation has improved wonderfuly. Thanks for the effort.

Alistair Hosie
02-07-2009, 06:53 PM
I married a welshwoman and did so happily.Alistair my spelling and typing improves if I take about ten minutes to check check anc check.Alistair ps which I am normaLLY TOO TIRED TO DO.

oldtiffie
02-07-2009, 08:06 PM
I've heard of people who thought that Daihatsu was a Welsh immigrant.

Is Gordon Brown related to John Brown?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(servant)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown%27s_Body

Davek0974
02-08-2009, 04:02 AM
would you raTHER have the two eyed english idiot cameron.???Alistair

I very much doubt it would be much worse. As i said before we need someone new with some balls, no no cameron, someone new.

Alistair Hosie
02-08-2009, 01:07 PM
Dave who wood do you have in mind if not Cameron he seems to be the tory favourite there is no one alse the best man and I am not a labourite is
Gordon Brown one eyed or not he's a very clever man and what Clarksons said is unforgivable he's an idiot always was always will be.Alistair

Davek0974
02-09-2009, 05:13 AM
There is no one else, that's the problem. Anyone who is away from the tax and spend regime *could* be better.

I guess we are just plain and simple shafted.

Dave

Circlip
02-09-2009, 06:18 AM
They put him up too early to try to match the "trendy tosser", perhaps Bill Haigh should think about re-running? Perhaps not, he's a Yorkshireman and it don't do to tell it like it is does It?

Regards Ian