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carlquib
02-03-2009, 01:09 AM
I have been futzing around sharpening cutters by hand, various shop made accessories, and with jigs and surface grinders. Well I finally got a tool and cutter grinder and would now like to learn to use it. I have gotten a copy of the manual for a Cincinnati #2 Tool and Cutter grinder and the Norton abrasives grinding manual from Rockrat, thanks again Rock. I have also ordered a copy of Sir John Mrs's cd on tool and cutter grinding. I am now wondering if there are any good texts on the subject that I should add to my library? Any suggestions on where I should start looking? I keep hoping that my local community college will add some serious machining classes to their lineup, but so far all I have gotten is a few mastercam classes with no chips made.

-brian

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 04:41 AM
Sir John's CD probably has far more than you can cope with.

Dunc
02-03-2009, 10:55 AM
Tool & Cutter Sharpening (Workshop Practice Series) by Harold Hall
ISBN-13: 979-185486-241-9
www.amazon.com/Tool-Cutter-Sharpening-Workshop-Practice/dp/1854862413/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233674129&sr=8-2

Deals with sharpening twist drills,lathe tools, end mils and includes plans for a bench grinder tool rest.

Usual disclaimers, etc

deltaenterprizes
02-03-2009, 11:08 AM
Where do I find the CD?

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 11:09 AM
Conceivably the guy had access to a Cinky-too and John's CD has access to the manual for------no prizes folks---a Cinky-too.

And John now owes me yet another beer--- a set of workshop drawings for a Bonelle t&c.

Now that is a lot of miracles for one day!

Somewhat testily,

Norman

JCHannum
02-03-2009, 11:16 AM
http://www.metoolsonline.com/

This is the link to John's wife's site. Note my previous complaints as to the inability for some to log on or order from it.

I do have the CD, purchased when it was on eBay, it is excellent. Another good reference is the Norton Handbook of toolroom Grinding, it is usually available on eBAy and the usual used booksellers.

Mcgyver
02-03-2009, 11:29 AM
this would be great content to have.....could some, John maybe, comment on the resolutions of the scans? Its a pet peeve of mine when people do pdf's at such low resolutions that you can't actually zoom in enough on pics/illustrations for it to be useful (ironically often the worst offenders are IT companies)

lazlo
02-03-2009, 11:50 AM
The resolution he scanned it in is fine. The only annoyance is that John put a "I scanned these manuals, please don't resell them" page every 30 pages of each manual :)

As far as the original poster's question, John's CD isn't going to teach you how to do tool and cutter grinding. It's a collection of old T&C Grinder manuals, like the Brown & Sharpe #13, the Cincinnati No. 1 and 2 manual, the Clarkson manual, etc. The vast majority of these manuals are the installation instructions, parts breakdowns, and catalog of optional accessories.

The best book I've found for actually showing tool and cutter grinding techniques is the K.O. Lee toolroom grinding manual.

DR
02-03-2009, 01:28 PM
The book "Machine Tool Practices" by Kibbe is a very good source of grinding and machining info.

The best news is, it's not expensive considering it's a large format hardback of 950 pages crammed with info and nice pictures. Several copies are currently listed with the online used book sellers for under 8 bucks.

aboard_epsilon
02-03-2009, 01:40 PM
someone should make a series of videos in this day and age .

all the best.markj

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 01:51 PM
Mark,
Try CNC Cookbook:BeijingDeckel Tool Grinder

I have the Chaddock 'Operating Instructions for the Quorn' (by MES)

(It tells you in plain words how to adjust your balls for the best effect.)

Norm

aboard_epsilon
02-03-2009, 02:03 PM
Sorry Norman.........you don't win this below ..for the last 5 replies you've given me over the last couple of days . VERY :confused:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/crystalmark.jpg

carlquib
02-03-2009, 02:08 PM
I have the Harold Hall book mentioned and the Quorn book by professor D.H. Chaddock. There is also a little information in volume 2 Machine Shop Practice by K. H. Moltrecht and a little more in volume 2 Machine Shop Training Course by Jones. I don't however have the Kibbe book. Are there any good texts that are strictly aimed at the art of tool and cutter grinding instead of just a chapter in a general machining text?

-brian

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 02:11 PM
First line-----------------------------GOOGLE( as I did)

Second line---------------------------Buy book from Model Engineering Services( Ivan Law and Arnold Throp)

Third Line---------------------------------balls? A pun on all the effing handles on a Quorn and your Baron Danglers- give or take 2

We could do with a giggle. Lot of buggers here who can't even read the question and see it answered.

Watch for BBC news tonight on 'Senile Dementia'

aboard_epsilon
02-03-2009, 02:17 PM
I asked about videos norman ?

all the best.markj

Errol Groff
02-03-2009, 02:18 PM
The Norton Tool Room Grinding book is available on the New England Model Engineering Society web site. Along with many other manuals and books related to machining and the Shaper machine.

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm

All of which I scanned so please don't resell them.

Errol Groff

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Line one- on the Beijing thing has a video! It may deal with lathe tools but it is still a video.

N

lazlo
02-03-2009, 02:30 PM
The Norton Tool Room Grinding book is available on the New England Model Engineering Society web site. Along with many other manuals and books related to machining and the Shaper machine.

http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm

Wow, that's a treasure trove Errol -- thank you so much!

aboard_epsilon
02-03-2009, 03:26 PM
Line one- on the Beijing thing has a video! It may deal with lathe tools but it is still a video.

N

lol.... putta dda enrill introo da clampt

http://www.youtube.com/v/1VU8S7wcecE&hl=en&fs=1

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 03:42 PM
The old 'Broken Wing Trick'


First lesson in teaching. Get the class's attention!

(Now speaking of teaching- didn't the Welsh Language not come in until 1993?)

So there you have it!

Norm

lazlo
02-03-2009, 03:49 PM
The book "Machine Tool Practices" by Kibbe is a very good source of grinding and machining info.

Agreed -- Kibbe is excellent, including the grinding chapter. It's also one of the few machine shop books still in print, so it's relatively modern.

carlquib
02-03-2009, 03:49 PM
Wow, care to share where you found one of the Kibbe books for $8? The cheapest used one that I can find is $37 and it looks well used, I'm fine with that as long as it is all there and readable. If you want a new 8th addition the cheapest one is $75 plus whatever the shipping and handling are. Still looks like it is just a general machining text and doesn't specialize in tool and cutter grinding.

-brian

Norman Atkinson
02-03-2009, 04:02 PM
My 'Kibbe' was about a 1. I suppose that it was worth that.
Kibbe is something that expects you to have everything mechanical including a camel castrator.

I belong to the little man image with his little battered lathe in a tiny wooden hut , a handful of tools/scrap metal and a modicum of engine-uity.

lazlo
02-03-2009, 04:05 PM
Wow, care to share where you found one of the Kibbe books for $8? The cheapest used one that I can find is $37 and it looks well used

I paid ~ $50 for a 7th Ed. I have an extra copy of a 5th Edition, if anyone's interested, PM me...

DR
02-03-2009, 04:55 PM
Wow, care to share where you found one of the Kibbe books for $8?

.................................................



http://www.alibris.com/

First two items that came under title search.

My copy is 1979. No indication of which edition it is. Only a mention that there was a previous edition in 1977 with a slightly different title.

S_J_H
02-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Got a copy of that book when a friend gave me his entire machining related library. It still had a price tag on it of 30$. It's a good fun book to read.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n48/S_J_H/misc/er11spindle001.jpg

Steve

lazlo
02-03-2009, 05:13 PM
First two items that came under title search.

My copy is 1979. No indication of which edition it is. Only a mention that there was a previous edition in 1977 with a slightly different title.

Here's one for $4.96 :)

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=4085458&wquery=kibbe&qsort=p&matches=83&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused

S_J_H
02-03-2009, 05:24 PM
My copy is 1979. No indication of which edition it is. Only a mention that there was a previous edition in 1977 with a slightly different title.

Just looked at mine and it is also 1979 with mention of a 1977 edition of a different name. I also can't find any edition number.

Steve

DR
02-03-2009, 05:24 PM
Here's one for $4.96 :)

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qwork=4085458&wquery=kibbe&qsort=p&matches=83&cm_sp=works*listing*buyused

This is strange, I searched from the alibris front page, www.alibris.com (no advanced search). 4 hits using the book's title. Your search gave several pages of hits.

What's up with this?

John Stevenson
02-03-2009, 07:29 PM
One here for $3.62

Machine Tool Practices
Richard R. Kibbe http://www.abebooks.com/images/servlets/ListingDetails/buy-this-item.gif http://www.abebooks.com/images/servlets/ListingDetails/add-to-basket-button.gif (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/ShopBasketPL?ac=a&it=1&ik=1223508472&cm_la=noimage)
http://www.abebooks.com/images/servlets/ListingDetails/buy-this-item-bottom.gif [30 Day Returns Policy (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/FrameBase?content_height=260&content=%2Fservlet%2FReturnPolicy)]
Bookseller:
thriftbooks.com
(Auburn, WA, U.S.A.)
Bookseller Rating: (javascript:openNewWindow('/servlet/FrameBase?content=%2Fservlet%2FViewSellerRatingsHe lp',500,%20550,'yes');) http://www.abebooks.com/images/servlets/shared/sellerrating/fivestar.gif (javascript:openNewWindow('/servlet/FrameBase?content=%2Fservlet%2FViewSellerRatingsHe lp',500,%20550,'yes');) Book Price:
US$ 3.62
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Quantity: 1

rockrat
02-03-2009, 09:05 PM
I have gotten a copy of the manual for a Cincinnati #2 Tool and Cutter grinder and the Norton abrasives grinding manual from Rockrat, thanks again Rock. I have also ordered a copy of Sir John Mrs's cd on tool and cutter grinding. -brian

Cheers! Didnt realize that John had that on cd. Glad you ordered it anyway. I scanned that thing and came up with a 90meg file. probably took carlquib all night to get it downloaded.

I too hate a crappy scan when I buy a cd from someone. But I also understand that a fellow has to look at scan time vs size vs media to hold the scan devided by, multiplied by, inverse of, pi, cubed, squared........

I would like to know how cannon copiers do the scan to compact pdf. That is to say, what is the compact part?

Anyhow, enjoy.
rock~

carlquib
02-03-2009, 09:09 PM
So are there no texts that are dedicated strictly to tool and cutter grinding? I was hoping that there might be something left from the pre cnc era where it was a very important part of the industry.

-brian

lazlo
02-03-2009, 10:36 PM
So are there no texts that are dedicated strictly to tool and cutter grinding?

From page 1:


The best book I've found for actually showing tool and cutter grinding techniques is the K.O. Lee toolroom grinding manual.

carlquib
02-03-2009, 10:58 PM
Anyone have a copy of the K.O. Lee manual. I seem to remember someone mentioning that they had a scan of the K.O. Lee manual but I can't find it now. My Cincinnati came with a K.O. Lee air spindle, so I would like to find a manual for that as well. I am wondering if there is some kind of a locking mechanism that is activated when the air is turned off. If I feed the spindle air it floats and moves extremely easy, but as soon as the air is turned off it locks. Not real tight, you can move it if you really try, but there is a sticker that warns not to move the spindle without the air applied.

-brian

Edit: Lazlo, I just saw your last post. Was it you that had a scan of the K.O. Lee toolroom grinding manual?

lazlo
02-03-2009, 11:07 PM
Edit: Lazlo, I just saw your last post. Was it you that had a scan of the K.O. Lee toolroom grinding manual?

I have the actual book, and I also got a scan from someone on PM. I could scan it myself, but it's several hundred pages, so it represents a lot of work.

Let me ask the guy on PM about it...

carlquib
02-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Thanks Lazlo, pm me if you find someone that has a copy of the K.O. Lee manual either for sale for a reasonable price or a scan that they are willing to share.

-brian

kmccubbin
02-04-2009, 04:06 PM
I'd also like to find this info. My next project is to resurrect a KO Lee T&C grinder that I recently bought. Then I get to learn to run it...

Thanks,
Kerry