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miker
02-07-2009, 06:41 PM
Half you guys are up to your armpits in snow and we have this:

http://livenews.com.au/Articles/2009/02/08/Fire_Horror_25_confirmed_dead_in_Victorian_bushfir es


Rgds

speedy
02-07-2009, 06:49 PM
.. capital punishment should be put upon any arsonist/s responsible for these deaths.
It was 32 C in my lounge room late yesterday afternoon.
Thank God I dont live in Aussie. The forecast is for rain on Tuesday; it cannot come soon enough for me!

miker
02-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Ken, it was 42 C in the shade here yesterday and it is predicted to go to 45 C today. There are fires to the North and West of us.
The fires here and in Victoria are nearly all arson. People have been arrested in NSW and Victoria in the last couple of days. They are usually members of the volunteer fire brigades.
NSW has the murder charge applicable if life is lost due to arson. Life in Prison. In NSW it means LIFE, not 20 years!!
It will be interesting to see if our courts have the balls to hand down the tough sentence. Usually they do not.

Rgds

Willy
02-07-2009, 07:56 PM
Miker just this morning as I so often do, I checked NASA's "images of the day" page and was surprised to find two for Australia.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/

I found it kind of ironic that while we here are riding out what seems like a too long winter, that you would be suffering the opposite extreme. Although at the time I had no idea that there was any lose of life, never mind such a significant one. Bush fires in such extreme temperatures are scary at the best of times, needlessly set ones that result in lose of life should have the perpetrators face execution.

radish1us
02-07-2009, 07:57 PM
This land Australia, must be very confusing for others.

Down south, we have raging bushfires.

Up north, we have record flooding.

Pity we cant turn the bloody joint upside down, eh. :-)

miker
02-07-2009, 09:22 PM
Willy, thanks for that NASA link. Great photos.

radish1us, I think our politicians are turning the country upsidedown :)

Rgds

oldtiffie
02-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Michael.

I think think they are turning each other over and on and "taking turns" (yep that kind too!! - what else??).

Maybe they've got a lathe - perhaps not.

.RC.
02-07-2009, 09:52 PM
It will be interesting to see if our courts have the balls to hand down the tough sentence. Usually they do not.

Rgds

While I have no sympathy for those who light fires deliberately who have no reason to do so, we must ask ourselves why fuel levels are allowed to get to such a level that these fires get so big.....Also looking at the ex town of Marysville it is completely surrounded by forest on all sides, a lot of the houses are built within the forest...What the hell were they expecting would happen when a fire comes along fanned by strong winds in 40C temperatures...

35 people are confirmed dead so far, the actual toll is expected to be much higher.

Town of Marysville or what remains of it -->> mms://media4.abc.net.au/winlibrary/news/200902/20090208-marysville-raw_16_9_bband.wmv

luthor
02-08-2009, 03:32 AM
The death toll is over 60 now and expected to rise as more burnt out properties are inspected by police etc. There were fires all around my area yesterday but thankfully none in the Macedon Ranges where I live. The conditions were terrible yesterday with high winds, very low humidity and temperatures around 45C.

radish1us
02-08-2009, 05:37 AM
...Also looking at the ex town of Marysville it is completely surrounded by forest on all sides, a lot of the houses are built within the forest...What the hell were they expecting would happen when a fire comes along fanned by strong winds in 40C temperatures...


Town of Marysville or what remains of it -->> mms://media4.abc.net.au/winlibrary/news/200902/20090208-marysville-raw_16_9_bband.wmv

Coming from Victoria as a young fella, I can only relate my thoughts on why they build in such areas.

They want the BUSH experience, ie - birds, trees and the idyllic lifestyle .

Now, when the bush turns nasty, they grizzle like buggery, about not getting enough help.

I was a member of the local Country Fire Authority, Timor, Vic, for about 4 yrs and have heard it all, even had the front paddocks of my fathers property burnt out and the house under attack from the flames, why, some bloody idiot flicked a cigarette butt out the window on the main road and the grass fire took hold.
Had to go into the bush on quite a few occasions while a fire was raging and try and put it out, all you were doing, was delaying the inevitable. Until you have actually seen the power of this phenomenon, then you will NEVER fully realize or understand what it is actually like, a gum tree forest fire, is like nothing else on earth. The fire explodes in the leaves up in the tree tops, well over your head, long before the ground fire has even got to you. The ground fire is actually started by the falling embers from the burnt leaves.

Not a very nice situation to be in AT ALL.

This may sound cruel, but after seeing it first hand, if these people want the bush experience, then they better be ready for it, when it DOES turns nasty, as it surely WILL DO.

Saw the sense and moved north many moons ago, not that far north where the floods get you, just far enough to be out of the way of those bloody terrifying flames.

regards radish

.RC.
02-08-2009, 03:50 PM
108 dead now..

wierdscience
02-08-2009, 06:04 PM
Is there any atempt made to control burn throughout the year or does common sense meet resistance like it does here?

From what I've seen on the news it's one fast moving fire.Is it a tree-top/brush-top fire what we call a crown fire or is it moving more through fuel on the ground?

.RC.
02-08-2009, 07:48 PM
Is there any atempt made to control burn throughout the year or does common sense meet resistance like it does here?

From what I've seen on the news it's one fast moving fire.Is it a tree-top/brush-top fire what we call a crown fire or is it moving more through fuel on the ground?

Generally not, the laws stops most hazard reduction burning from happening so much red tape to go through makes it not worth doing...

Yes from the pictures I have seen the fire is moving along the crown of the trees..Remember most of these trees have eucalyptus oil in their leaves which is flammable by itself...Then you have the towns built amongst the forest...

Combine that with 43C temperatures 60kmph winds and a high fuel load on the ground you end up with a wall of fire 60 feet tall and 300 ft deep travelling towards you at 40mph..It is any wonder nothing is left..

Watch the fire in the first 20 seconds of this clip, that is how fast they are moving.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWr7x7zPiQ

wierdscience
02-08-2009, 09:11 PM
Geez that's fast,looks about 25mph spread.Forgot about Eucalyptus being common there,that must burn like gasoline when it's dry.

Is there a fund set up for the victims?

miker
02-09-2009, 12:07 AM
128 bodies found so far. More than 750 homes gone.
The count is going to increase on both.

It is 4.06 pm Monday now.

Rgds

bollie7
02-09-2009, 06:05 AM
While I have no sympathy for those who light fires deliberately who have no reason to do so, we must ask ourselves why fuel levels are allowed to get to such a level that these fires get so big.....Also looking at the ex town of Marysville it is completely surrounded by forest on all sides, a lot of the houses are built within the forest...What the hell were they expecting would happen when a fire comes along fanned by strong winds in 40C temperatures...

35 people are confirmed dead so far, the actual toll is expected to be much higher.

Town of Marysville or what remains of it -->> mms://media4.abc.net.au/winlibrary/news/200902/20090208-marysville-raw_16_9_bband.wmv
Its always distressing to see such loss of life and devastation.
Some of the pictures I saw tonight showed burned out houses that were still a bit hard to see from the air because of the trees around them, trees that had no leaves on them. Then you have to wonder as Ringer has said. Why would you choose to live that close to the bush. One survivor was being interviewed and he said something to the effect of "once the power went out we had no water". Thats one of the first things you should do if you choose to live in that sort of area, ensure you have some pumps and water that are independent of the power supply. After all the bush fires we have had here in Aus over the years you would think that we would have learned a bit by now. But, they will rebuild, the same sort of houses and they will end up in the same situation some time in the future.
For those of you overseas who don't know, the hills to the west of Sydney are called the "Blue Mountains" (not really mountains on a world scale but to us they are). The reason for the name is when you look at them from a distance they appear to be blue in colour. This blue haze is actually the eucalyptus oil in the air above the trees.

I hope every one in the Northern hemisphere gets through your winter with out to many weather related problems.

bollie7

Evan
02-09-2009, 11:47 AM
Sorry to hear about the fire problems your way.



Coming from Victoria as a young fella, I can only relate my thoughts on why they build in such areas.

They want the BUSH experience, ie - birds, trees and the idyllic lifestyle .

Now, when the bush turns nasty, they grizzle like buggery, about not getting enough help.


It may be optional to build in the forest where you are but here we have no other option other than to huddle up in the towns. That is no guarantee of safety either when the fires come each summer. In the last few years we had fires that wiped out several small settlements as well as doing major damage on the outlying areas of a city. British Columbia is all mountains and forest with only a very few exceptions.

We we live we don't complain about the response of the firefighters to a forest fire and saving our houses. They aren't tasked with protecting property and we have no fire protection services. If a forest fire comes along and sets your house on fire they may drop a load of retardent on it to stop it from spreading the fire even more. Of course the load of retardent may collapse the roof if dropped low enough.

This coming summer is going to be interesting. We have millions of acres of standing dead pine trees waiting to go up like a natural atomic bomb. They didn't burn last year since we had an unusually wet summer. We dodged a bullet then but the problem will be even worse this year. The average number of fires burning in this province each summer ranges from 500 to 1000 at any time during the fire season.

.RC.
02-09-2009, 09:05 PM
173 have now been found to have perished in the fires..

Many pictures here of the devestation -->> http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/bushfires_in_victoria_australi.html