the advantage of being President

[aostling]

Obama was in town today, speaking at a high school where he unveiled his mortgage-protection plan. I watched this live, on morning TV. When it was over I got in my car and drove to nearby Tempe on an errand. I was on I-10 in moderate traffic when I was overtaken by four motorcycle cops zipping by, splitting the lanes. The traffic slowed, then came to a halt. All the lanes had been stopped by the four cops. This was about half a mile from merging US60.

It didn't take long for me to realize what this was. Obama was now on the way to the airport, and this was insurance that his progress would be unimpeded by traffic. Nice!

Air Force One took off around noon, heading to Ottawa. I wonder if the Canadian Mounties will be as expert as the Arizona patrolmen in being able to conduct the traffic, at will.

[tony ennis]

W came to Louisville a fair amount. They closed most of the city down. You either left work early, or you worked late.


It's good to be the king.

[Evan]

I wonder if the Canadian Mounties will be as expert as the Arizona patrolmen in being able to conduct the traffic, at will.

The RCMP are unlike any of the various levels of police forces in the US. They operate nation wide and handle everything from international espionage to traffic violations in small towns. The majority of Canadian provinces and municipalities do not have their own provincial or city police but instead contract with the federal government for policing to be provided by the RCMP. This means the RCMP have experience in every possible situation ranging from picking up drunks to protecting visiting foreign dignitaries.

[.RC.]

I assume it would be more a security thing...Moving targets are harder to hit (unless you are lee harvey oswald)

You could imagine how easy it would be to attack if the car was stuck at the lights..

[PaulF]

When I came home from Viet Nam The Marine Corps attached me to a security unit on a NAS (Navel Air Station).
We were involved in the security of Richard Nixon.
All agencies involved were coached by Secret Service agents. And we (Marines), for that period of time worked for them.
Units that guard a president, Canadian prime minister or what ever, follow very strict scripting that can morph in several ways at any time based on need.
This service is afforded to all presidents and visiting heads of state in the US, and I'm sure the RCMP does this as well.
PaulF

[Forrest Addy]

Remember when Reagan's limo T boned a civilian at an intersection about 1986? The sercret Service were all over the poor guy. Reagan had to intercede or they would have hauled hib off to oplivion. No sense of humor in thoise SS types where POTUS security is concerned.

[John Stevenson]

We don't have that problem over here, for one thing the cops can't get thru the traffic jams to stop traffic and when anyone sees that one eye Scots git [ Clarksons famous quote ]coming they drive off the other way .

[Weston Bye]

Some years ago, when President Clinton came to Flint to campaign, they shut down US-23/I-75 where it passed the airport. (Air Force One would be on a low final when it crossed the highway) In the ensuing traffic backup, a truck driver with his head elsewhere, rear ended a car, causing it to burst into flames, burning a couple of women. Certainly, such accidents happen every day for various reasons, but this one could be linked directly to Presidential travel.

[Your Old Dog]

Did they widen the traffic up so the POTUS could drive up the middle? They like to use the other cars/citizens as a screen.

I have videotaped several presidents and they (Secret Service) would frequently walk the crowd of media over to the stairway, position the pres in the middle of the crowd and then walk us all over to the buildings. We were a living screen! I had a camera on my shoulder looking to my left at my reporter one day. When I looked forward Gerry Ford was within inches of me. When I looked behind him there was an agent just piercing his eyes thru mine with a rain coat drapped over a gun barrel. All that showed appeared to be a 45 but not a 1911, just a big arsed hole in a pipe :D

Our thruways are shutdown around here and the overpasses are all secured. These anti-tank weapons that we can't seem to keep tabs on would sure do a number on a car.

I don't mind the security measures. These guys got the toughest job in the world, defending the president of the most giving nation on earth. Guess that's why everyone seems to hate us :D

[digger_doug]

Try flying a private airplane, when the pres. decides
to alter his "route" and you didn't get the "notam"

[Circlip]

Hmm, how would you be able to take a bead on BHO through blacked out limo windows??

Regards Ian.

[Your Old Dog]

LAWs don't need to pin point a target.

[Evan]

Seems to me that they usually use at least one decoy limo.

Interesting note about Air Force 1, it is the only large aircraft that has been completely modified to withstand the Electromagnetic pulse from a close nuclear blast. It was so difficult and expensive to do that none of the backups have been done.

In contrast the B52 can fly entirely without electricity.

[lazlo]

LAWs don't need to pin point a target.

You're going to get HSM Forum on a watch list, but they specifically armored the new Presidential limousines to withstand LAW rockets and RPG's.

[jlmanatee]

A great man once said ( I think it was Mel Brooks) "It's GOOD to be the king" ;)

[Your Old Dog]

You're going to get HSM Forum on a watch list, but they specifically armored the new Presidential limousines to withstand LAW rockets and RPG's.

Actually, truth be known, your comment with the triggor words:

Presidential
limousines
LAW
armored
RPGAll these combined in one sentence would likely get someones attention. I was careful not to include all in one sentence as that might fake them out. :D Hell, being of conservative mindset and former media member I am likely on more then one list. I know Hillary had Harry Scull of the Buffalo News get about 20 pictures of me after I complained to her staff that we can't do a story on her without more then 5 seconds scenes at our disposal. The security on her was extremely tight but I think it was more to keep the media away from her and not any threat!

[PaulF]

The interesting thing is, the offical may be there or not. Its a shell game.
You might be stopped in traffic for a decoy.
PaulF

[BillH]

Fear the government that fears you!
Republic that turned into a Democracy, that is turning into an Oligarchy...
Why do I have visions of Rome in my brain?

[SteveF]

You're going to get HSM Forum on a watch list, but they specifically armored the new Presidential limousines to withstand LAW rockets and RPG's.

An RPG will penetrate 12 inches of armor plating. They can penetrate Bradley IFVs. A hit on the passenger compartment and Barak is toast.

Steve.

[.RC.]

An RPG will penetrate 12 inches of armor plating. They can penetrate Bradley IFVs. A hit on the passenger compartment and Barak is toast.

Steve.

In fact I recall seeing pictures of M1A2's that have been penetrated by an unknown RPG style weapon..

It is actually amusing all the security...People like presidents are easily replaceable and indeed are replaced every four or eight years, but people like Albert Einstein or Max Planck are not replaceable, they are the sort of people we should be protecting...

[lazlo]

An RPG will penetrate 12 inches of armor plating. They can penetrate Bradley IFVs. A hit on the passenger compartment and Barak is toast.

The Bradley has thin aluminum armor. It's hard to find any documentation about it, but the old M113 personell carrier had 1.5" thick armor, so it's probably a little thicker than that. The M3 Bradley got field upgrades of 1" plate steel at key points.

The new Presidential limousines have 8" of laminated armor, and were specifically designed to take LAW and RPG-7 hits. The windows were designed to take Barrett sniper rifle hits.

It's an ugly damn thing:
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Cadillac_PresidentialLimo_2005_EX.jpg

[Evan]

In fact I recall seeing pictures of M1A2's that have been penetrated by an unknown RPG style weapon..


Interesting you should mention that. I wonder if anyone has determined what the weapon is and where it was made? The report I read said it not only penetrated the M1A2 but it also went out the other side. To do that it would have to be made of unobtanium.

[bigbill04]

"No sense of humor in those SS types where POTUS security is concerned"
That's for danged sure! Back in 1994, my mother-in-law, my wife, and myself were guests of former President Clinton. He had invited my mother-in-law along with two guests to a Democratic function at the Hilton in New York City. My mother-in-law had mailed a letter to him several months earlier telling him about how she could not afford health care after she severely broke her hip and something should be done about Universal Health care. President Clinton wrote her back and asked her if she would come to Washington for a press conference. When she asked me if I would like to go, I said , "Of course I would." That fell through at the last moment, but a month later the presidents people called her again. This time they said we can go to New York and meet him. Since I was borned and raised in the city, I volunteered to take her and my wife to the meeting. The Secret Service gave each of us a code name that we had to tell them when we arrived at the Hotel. It was funny, but when I pulled up to the main entrance a couple of NYPD cops told me to move my car. I told then that we are guests of the president and asked them where we should park. They told me that they have no knowledge of any president being there and told me to move. I did move and as I got around the side of the building I saw a bunch of well dressed serious looking guys standing at the door. I told them my story and they told us to get out of the car and they would take care of it. They drove my car into the indoor parking lot and we went to the front desk. The girl at the desk did not have any knowledge of any president so she asked her manager. He knew the story and told us to take that elevator to the second floor and someone will meet us. While in the elevator, there was two guys with this really big and mean looking dog. I figured I would make some conversation with them and commented about the dog. Not one word or motion was made to me. These two guys had sunglasses on and just stared at the door till we hit the second floor. That is when I knew these guys are serious people. As soon as we had all exited the elevator, this very pretty young girl came to us and asked for our code names. Once we told her she directed us to the metal detectors. My wife and I had no problems, but my mother-in-law had her wheelchair gone over pretty good. We were also told that after the luncheon we would meet the president and be able to ask him one question each. I had planned to ask him about his gun control agenda and to try and convince him about our second amendment rights. My question never came up. At the last minute they told us that President Clinton was running late and that he did not have time to answer any of our questions. We were apparently used just as a photo op for his wife's Socialized Medicine Plan. There was us and around eight others that were also invited to this photo op. I was the first to greet him as he stepped out from behind this curtain. I was taken aback by his tallness. On television, he doesn't seem as tall as in real life. I have been a conservative Republican since I was 18, yet I have never met any Republicans. It's funny that I always meet Democrats. I met three NYC mayors, Bobby Kennedy, Sen. Patrick Moynihan, and President Clinton. A real funny story was after he met the others in the group he came over to my wife and I and started talking like we were in some bar. The media was right in front of us and were trying so hard to see what we were talking about by extending these long microphones. Even CNN's Wolf Blitzer was on his hands and knees trying to get closer to us. All we spoke about was how my wife and I are getting married soon and we even invited him to our wedding. He did say he would come, but my mother-in-law would not give me the telephone number she got to call his secretaries. So we never did invite him. We did get some autographed pictures of us shaking his hand. One thing I did think about was how any person can be assassinated. They never body searched me. I could have had a kevlar knife or even a steel pen that I could have used to stick him in the ear or eye or some other vulnerable spot. It would only tale a second for some determined person to do such a thing. I guess you can only protect a person so much. My mother-in-law was so angry with me the following day. After the meeting was over all these reporters ran up to me nd asked me what we were talking about and what I thought of the president. I just commented that he was just a regular guy, the type you meet in the bar and have a drink or two with. Well, the newspapers misquoted me and said that I wanted to get drunk with the president. LOL My mother-in-law still talks about me and my big mouth. It is one of my many interesting memories and something to tell my grandchildren one day.
Jeeze. I just noticed how much two finger typing I did. Once I get going I don't stop!

[lazlo]

The report I read said it not only penetrated the M1A1 but it also went out the other side. To do that it would have to be made of unobtanium.

That sounds like a long-rod projectile (an inertia weapon, not shoulder-fired), and not a shaped charge. A shaped charge penetrates the armor cleanly with a pencil hole, and when it bursts through the interior, it shatters the interior of the armor wall itself, spraying the vehicle with "spall."

When I was working on the range at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, they would do a demonstration for "newbies" with a Russia BMP (armored personnel carrier). They would put several wooden dummies inside, and mount a shaped-charge on the hull. It would explode, with no visible damage to the exterior, except the pencil hole. When you opened the rear hatch, the wooden dummies were shattered. Watching it on a high-speed camera was sickeningly fascinating.

That's the reason modern fighting vehicles have spall liners -- Kevlar insulation on the inside of the vehicle's armor.

The RPG-7's the insurgents have are 20 years old. The Russia army fields the RPG-29, which is 20 years more modern, but still not as effective as the American Dragon system:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/RPG-29_USGov.JPG/300px-RPG-29_USGov.JPG

[Evan]

I wonder if the US has any field operational rail guns. I have seen test reports of velocities exceeding 10 kilometers per second.

[lazlo]

I wonder if the US has any field operational rail guns.

You'd need a power station to plug-in to :D The other issue with railguns is that no one has been able to design one where the rails don't disintegrate from the intense plasma arc as the projectile is pushed down the rails.

The US Navy has been researching railguns for years, because they'd be ideal on a nuclear-powered ship.

By the way, if you see a uranium or tungsten long-rod penetrator hit a tank, it's an impressive site -- it sure looks like science fiction. It goes in one side and out the other, just like you describe, but especially when it's a uranium penetrator, the uranium catches on fire and looks like a lightning bolt going through the tank.

[Spin Doctor]

I wonder if the US has any field operational rail guns. I have seen test reports of velocities exceeding 10 kilometers per second.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/18/bae_railgun_deal_inked/

[Evan]

Here is one thing that is very close to deployment, vehicle mounted lasers. This is the Avenger system, a 100,000 watt laser that has demonstrated it can shoot down a target drone. I suspect the limo windows wouldn't be able to absorb that much energy for long.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics5/aven.jpg

[garyphansen]

"The US Navy has been researching railguns for years"

There was one on board a Navy ship for the Spanish American War. Gary P. Hansen

[dockrat]

Here is one thing that is very close to deployment, vehicle mounted lasers. This is the Avenger system, a 100,000 watt laser that has demonstrated it can shoot down a target drone. I suspect the limo windows wouldn't be able to absorb that much energy for long.

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics5/aven.jpg

But a little hard to hide on a "Grassy Knoll" Evan :D

[wierdscience]

The new Presidential limousines have 8" of laminated armor, and were specifically designed to take LAW and RPG-7 hits. The windows were designed to take Barrett sniper rifle hits.

It's an ugly damn thing:
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Cadillac_PresidentialLimo_2005_EX.jpg

Ya,and it's a Caddy,good thing those guys can push:D

[jkilroy]

I betcha they would have a hard time pushing *that* caddy on level ground! 100,000 watts? Thats nearly 140hp. Is that a chemical laser because I don't see the generator required to power it, does it charge a bunch of big super caps?

[Evan]

They are concentrating on solid state lasers because of the logistical problems with supplying chemical fuels that are highly toxic and fat targets. They use capacitors to store energy for shots just like a photoflash.

The really big issue right now is that China is starting to supply battlefield blinding lasers. They have the potential to make ground based troop warfare impossible.

[.RC.]

The really big issue right now is that China is starting to supply battlefield blinding lasers. They have the potential to make ground based troop warfare impossible.

I am pretty sure they are illegal as far as the Geneva convention goes...You could imagine how much sympathy a nation that blinds a huge number of people is going to get even in times of war.

[Evan]

The concept of "illegal conduct" when at war has always amused me. The US was extremely reluctant to agree to restrict the use of laser blinding weapons and has not agreed to restrict the use of high power lasers on the battlefield that are supposedly used for other purposes such as target designation, target destruction, ranging systems and other purposes. All of those uses have the potential to blind the participants even though they are nominally not intended to do so.

There are no effective defenses against high power lasers aimed in your direction. Most applications now use frequency shifting lasers in order to defeat laser jammers. This means that special narrow bandwith protective goggles are useless as the possible exposure wavelengths cannot be predicted. Goggles sufficient to protect against all bandwidths are opaque, they are known as eye patches. The only options remaing in such a battle is to completely rely on remote sensing systems or full face optical translators like night vision systems.

[.RC.]

Just use a big mirror to reflect it... :D

[speedy]

We only use the best security officers the NZ dollar can buy.
Nice sunnies aye??:D

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/key-assaulted-waitangi-2464337/video

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/key-assaulted-waitangi-2464337

[Spin Doctor]

"The US Navy has been researching railguns for years"

There was one on board a Navy ship for the Spanish American War. Gary P. Hansen

I have the feeling you are thinking of USS Vesuvius which was equipped with pnuematic cannons that "fired" a dynamite charge. Its range wasn't all that great. She looks more like a yacht than a warship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vesuvius_(1888)

[lazlo]

I have the feeling you are thinking of USS Vesuvius which was equipped with pnuematic cannons that "fired" a dynamite charge. Its range wasn't all that great. She looks more like a yacht than a warship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vesuvius_(1888)

Wow, that's bizarre Spin -- I'd never heard of a "dynamite gun" before. Seems like something Wile E. Coyote would come up with :)

http://www.houston.no/pics/wile_e_coyote.jpg

Vesuvius carried three 15-inch pneumatic guns, mounted forward side-by-side. Compressed air projected the shells from the "dynamite guns." The explosive used in the shells themselves was actually a "desensitized blasting gelatin" composed of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine. It was less sensitive to shock than regular dynamite but still sensitive enough that compressed air, rather than powder, had to be utilized as the propellant. Ten shells per gun were carried on board, and the range of flight — varying from 200 yards to one and one-half miles — depended on the amount of air entering the firing chamber.

[bruto]

Back in the 70's when Gerald Ford was visiting Hartford, CT, the secret service kind of forgot to close the intersections, and a teenager t-boned the presidential limo. My dim recollection is that the kid had the right of way, and no real harm was done except to cars, but it must have been a very tense moment!

[Spin Doctor]

Back in the 70's when Gerald Ford was visiting Hartford, CT, the secret service kind of forgot to close the intersections, and a teenager t-boned the presidential limo. My dim recollection is that the kid had the right of way, and no real harm was done except to cars, but it must have been a very tense moment!

Something like that could only happen to Gerry, Have a nice Trip, Ford

[AZSORT]

One of our problems is we have "wanted a king, like all the other nations"
Do you actually think this king or any other government solution can solve our problems? I hope people will learn a number of lessons from all this and get back to the wisdom of the ages.
Like:
Live within your means (money, energy, resources).
Avoid debt unless you know how you are going to pay it back.
A penny saved is a penny earned (I don't mean a fiat penny)
An honest day's work is better then getting rich quick.
Investment speculation is risky.
Waste not, want not.
Long term success, not instant gratification

[loose nut]

Interesting you should mention that. I wonder if anyone has determined what the weapon is and where it was made? The report I read said it not only penetrated the M1A2 but it also went out the other side. To do that it would have to be made of unobtanium.


Modern tanks with the fancy armor only have it on key faces like the turret and the front hull otherwise the tank would be to heavy to move, they almost are now. The top, bottom, rear and sides are usually ordinary steel armour and not even very thick so they can be penetrated quite easily if hit in the right spot, basic tank doctrine is to keep the front towards the enemy which isn't possible in unconventional warfare. Extra plate have been added to the M1's sides to beef up protection.

The old M113's may have had 1 1/2" thick armour but it was aluminum and isn't as good as the more modern Bradley vehicle unless it has been beefed up with something like ceramic Armour or reactive Armour plates. Aluminum armour is about the worst thing to be behind if penetrated by a shaped charge, it can ignite and add to the destruction. Modern armies are rethinking the use of APC's because putting your troops in a can so it is easier to kill a whole section instead of just one person may not be such a good idea after all.

The glass that is used in top end protect limos can stop a RPG but you can't get it at your local hardware, yet.

[spope14]

A few pics, I have met several Presidents right in the "back room" of events over the years, being in NH and all. It is actually kind of neat, being a person who likes to watch "logistics".

The Secret Service is an amazing thing to watch, as are all the local preparations surrounding a visit of a President or even a viable candidate. You go through metal detectors like an airport, you are watched quite carefully, you just know that there is security among you, yet, as a crowd member, it is almost a "transparent" thing, except for the sharp shooters posted around the event site and around/on top of busses, the line of cars, ambulances and local, state sherrif law enforcement, communications wagons, and the press corps - three or four vehicles anyway - more often than not a couple of busses. At the event itself, the Secret Service people are polite, yet focused, and you are certain who the main guards are. We had Marine One fly in here a few years back, there are indeed two of them that fly with the President. With the VP and President, streets are cleared for quite a ways around the site, and every home is "scouted" a bit to assure that the "lay of the land" is well known. There are even Helicopters that keep an eye on the travel routes for the President himself. They leave little to nothing to chance, even to the "back room" where the President, VP or a viable candidate like Obama meets the public. For VP Gore while running for President, this meant blocking off the windows with white paper where I met hm the first time.

You have to figure that this is target #1 for any nut, terrorist, or some militia person who might just have the urge to make a name in history. Not only that, but beyond the President, any one of these people could harm the people in a crowd, so I do not mind it all.

Quick Quiz - can you find the Secret service people in the pictures below?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/spope14/DSC04849.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/spope14/DSC02281.jpg

[Evan]

can you find the Secret service people in the pictures below?



Generally it is the people that aren't looking at the target but at the crowd. That includes the woman in green who also appears in the second picture.

[Duct Taper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruto
Back in the 70's when Gerald Ford was visiting Hartford, CT, the secret service kind of forgot to close the intersections, and a teenager t-boned the presidential limo. My dim recollection is that the kid had the right of way, and no real harm was done except to cars, but it must have been a very tense moment!

I was on protection details for Presidents Carter, Ford and Reagan. I had to drive one of the limos in the convoys back in that day and no intersections were blocked off, we just kept very close to the bumper of the next car and went right through the lights. Once in a while some of the limos were driven by agents not used to the convoys and a space would get too wide between vehicles. That is when there was the real possibility of an accident.

In Chicago during practice runs it got kind of hairy with traffic on the interstates and I burned out the brakes on two new rented 1976 Lincoln limos! They didn't need the armor, we were just carrying staff and they were expendable.

[madman]

I seen her around before . I guess she got on the Secret Service cause she wasnt good at anything else she tried ,, let alone keeping her Husband sexually satisfied? ( I thuink her Husband was a President also Once?) I heard this (word on the street)