Re-loading equipment?

[wierdscience]

Hi all,my boss after many years wants to get back into re-loading.

Considering that he wants to re-load everything from pistol to 06 rounds what re-loading system offers the most bang for the buck pardon the pun?

[Bob Ford]

If he will be doing a lot of shooting. DILLON They have a lifetime no bull**** warranty.
Bob

[mattm]

If he wants cheap then the Lee kit is pretty good.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1235488618.1742=/html/catalog/anivers.html

$134 plus cost of the dies.

This is not the best setup but it works.

[huntinguy]

I have the Lee 1000 progressive. In all honesty, I cannot recommend it. Just a few issues, the primer feed is iffy at best and will flip primers. Second, the primer seating arrangement is prone to dirt and that will prevent primers from feeding. Also, it doesn't always seat to full depth and that will lock up the machine.

Can't speak to their single stage stuff.

[JCHannum]

Lee and Dillon are probably the two ends of the spectrum for reloading equipment. I have a Lee single station press, and it is adequate for the occasional reloading that I do now. I will be doing some caseforming soon and I doubt it will be up to that for long.

If you want to try reloading to see if it interests you, Lee is OK. If you intend to get serious, spend a few more dollars up front. It is no different than machining, you get what you pay for.

[Willy]

Another vote for Dillon (http://www.dillonprecision.com/Dillon_Reloading_Machines-8-1.html).

Depending on how much shooting you want to reload for they have a model that will cater to whatever you need or want to spend. As with any equipment the more you spend the more features you get. Faster reloading rates, less input required = more shooting, all the way up to about 1000-1200 rounds an hour. And with the caliber conversion kits it only takes a couple of minutes to change to a different caliber.

No they aren't the cheapest reloading system, but as Bob Ford said, you can't beat their warranty. Even after the fifth owner has a problem twenty years down the road, send them a note telling what you have and a new part will be shipped at no cost. From past experience I can say that their after sales service is second to none.

[Phil McCrackin]

+1 for Dillon. They work great, have a great warranty, and hold their re-sale value very well. Your boss can expect to get 80% (or more) out of a Dillon if he decides to get rid of it.

[chriskat]

My opinion, depends on what he wants to do and how many rounds he thinks he'll be loading. If he's just an occasional shooter a single stage press should be fine; I've used one for 25 years or so. If he goes that way I'd suggest RCBS.

If he is going to be loading a lot of ammo a progressive, like the Dillon, may be a better choice.

I have a Lee progressive 1000 and it works fine for me. I used to use it for loading pistol ammo just for blasting. I haven't been loading much lately.

Jeff

[BigBoy1]

I've had my DILLON for many years and have loaded thousands of rounds (both pistol and rifle) with zero problems.

Bill

[wierdscience]

Okay then Dillon it is,sent for a catalog today.Thanks for the advice.

[pcarpenter]

Dillon is in the *progressive* press business....for cranking out large volumes. I would never recommend a progressive unless a guy wanted to really spit the stuff out in volume. It requires extra care in initial setup since each pull is doing something to multiple rounds, each at a different stage. If you are going to crank them out fast, this setup is well worth it.

Otherwise, get a good "O" frame press of some sort for the extra rigidity it offers. I use an RCBS Rockchucker, but there are others. I used to own a lyman T-mag which is a turret press and allows you to keep the dies mounted in interchangable turrets and rotate them into place. This is not to be confused with a progressive press where the shell is moved from station to station (die to die) as part of pulling the handle. The convenience of the turret is not that great really since dies just thread in and out and lock rings keep them in proper adjustment. The O-frame presses are much more rigid by having the ram and die inside an O-shaped frame.

Of course, I think we all answered the question "what press should he consider" while that really is only a tiny portion of the equipment. I am not so nuts about "systems" as I own equipment from a lot of manufacturers. I generally consider Redding to be top-line, short of the niche benchrest shooter products. Other top brands include RCBS and I like Hornady dies for pistol calibers since they seem to size down a bit farther than most carbide pistol dies.

A scale (and perhaps a powder measure if he wants to speed the process) are critical. The RCBS Chargemaster which is a powder dispenser that links electronically to a scale for metered dispensing, gets really good reviews...but its $300 bucks as I recall. I use an $80 PACT electronic scale along with my old Lyman beam scale from time to time. If you want to dispense powder because you are loading more than say 20 of the same load, then a dispenser makes sense. I have several and probably like my Redding precision dispenser the best with a micrometer adjust powder chamber. Its better than some in terms of repeatability and still far less expensive than some of the custom benchrest dispensers. If he goes the progressive press route, the dispenser will be part of the arrangement.

I find that I am always fiddling with load development and commonly load maybe 10 rounds of a given charge--and a bunch of different charge weights/bullet/powder combinations. I dispense into the scale by hand with a scoop and use a powder trickler to finalize the charge in that sort of situation. The aforementioned RCBS unit puts this same functionality in an automated device and I hope to own one some day. Punch in the charge weight and it stops when the charge weighs that much. You can store hundreds of charge values with different powders for future reference.

Paul

[wierdscience]

Paul,the feature that appeals to myself and the boss is the Dillon being able to swap calibers quickly once a die set is setup in a block.

Are they that repeatable though or do they still need fiddling to function right after a block swap?

The issue he didn't like with his old single station press was multiple handling of the same number of rounds.He and I are both short on time and less time fiddling with dies and what not means more time actually loading

He and I might go in halves on a Dillon since it looks like ammo is going up in price and the local stores don't always have things like .22swift or 8mm in stock.Then there are friends to consider too.

[deltaenterprizes]

RCBS is good also and has a lifetime warranty also.

[Bob Ford]

Buy two powder measures. Set one for rifle the other for pistol. You will still have to adjust the measures for the amount of powder dropped, but you will not have to change bars. The only other thing you might have to do is change primer size. My dies once set do not seem to change and I have loaded thousands of rounds. When I was competing I bought primers 10,000 at a time. I started with the old 450 no change heads. Went to the 550 no real problems.

Bob

[Yankee1]

Hi
I use a RCBS Rockchucker for rifle and pistol and a Ponsess Warren progressive for shot shells. I always load for maximum accuracy so I like the ability to have very close contact with every operation of the loading process. I also have many additional steps that I use such as checking individual cartridge run out. I charge cases a little low and add powder a few grains at a time while in the scale until its exact. I weigh everything. I neck turn cases. My case length is set at about .001" head space.
For me the RCBS Rockchucker is ideal. I clean out every primer pocket by hand, I don't want any ash in the pocket. It could change the lock time by a few thousands of a second. I like Dillon but it would not allow me to clean out the primer pocket unless I made it a separate operation before I put the cartridge case in the machine. I do all my own gun smithing to tune my rifles.
As you probably guessed by now I am a bench rest shooter as well as a hunter. For me the Rockchucker fills my needs very well.
Good shooting with whatever you choose.
Yankee1

[plastikosmd]

I'm sure all are good, but I love my dillon. Had a small problem (that was my fault), They fixed, paid shipping was just an overall positive experience. In the dillon flyer there are write-in's from customers. One, I will always remember. Some guy got robbed, his press got shot in the robbery attempt. Dillon replaced it, no questions asked. Maybe it is a fake ad, dunno, but after my experience I doubt it.

[deltaenterprizes]

They did not replace anything damaged in Katrina.

[Willy]

And they probably won't replace it if you take a cutting torch to one of their units either.
Let's face it, they have to draw the line somewhere.
Would you expect an automobile manufacturer to replace a $50,000 car just cause you were unfortunate enough to be in a flood?

That's what insurance is for, but that's another sore point I'm sure.
I don't think you can hold Dillon responsible for natural disasters.

[plastikosmd]

Replacing a shot press is just good business. Someone defending his/her home (dont remember who shot it, intruder or owner) Nevertheless, home defense is good publicity. Dillon should hardly be responsible for replacing your hurricane damaged press tho it must have taken balls to even ask.

[deltaenterprizes]

They advertise a no BS lifetime warranty.

[Willy]

Yes...on their product.
Did you expect them to cover your butt from cradle to grave as well, just for buying one of their products?
You're kidding, aren't you?:confused:

[andy_b]

Paul,the feature that appeals to myself and the boss is the Dillon being able to swap calibers quickly once a die set is setup in a block.

Are they that repeatable though or do they still need fiddling to function right after a block swap?

The issue he didn't like with his old single station press was multiple handling of the same number of rounds.He and I are both short on time and less time fiddling with dies and what not means more time actually loading

He and I might go in halves on a Dillon since it looks like ammo is going up in price and the local stores don't always have things like .22swift or 8mm in stock.Then there are friends to consider too.

weird,

i've had my Dillon 550 for more than 15 years. the first thing i have to say, is that the cost of the press itself has been at most 10% of the total cost of all my reloading junk. :) so don't base any press purchase on cost.

if your boss only plans on loading one or two calibers, the quick-change toolheads do provide some ease and speed in converting calibers, but if you're only going to convert once a month, they aren't a necessity. if you plan on reloading a wide variety of calibers, and may at times change calibers several times over a weekend or something (like if you plan on loading up a bunch of different rounds one weekend and go blasting the next), then the quick-change kits are well worth it. in my experience, i NEVER have to readjust the dies once they are setup in the toolheads. the only time i ever adjust the dies is if i switch to a different shaped bullet. on occasion i do need to adjust the powder measure, and i usually weigh the powder charge in first ten rounds or so to be sure it is still throwing the correct weight.

as others noted, there are two sizes of powder charge bars, and while they are not difficult to swap, it takes a little time (well, a LOT of time compared to the one minute to change toolheads :) ). over the years i have bought the required powder measures so almost all of the calibers i commonly load have a complete quick-change kit and require nothing more than pulling the two pins in the toolhead to do a complete caliber change. it literally takes one minute to go from one caliber to another. with one exception....

the exception is the primer size. there are large primers and small primers. it only takes a few minutes to do the swap, and there is no way to avoid it because the primer-handling mechanism is part of the press itself, not the toolheads. well, you COULD just buy two 550s and have one set for small primers, and one for large. :) i did seriously consider that at one time, but changing the primer mechanism gives me an excuse to clean the press off every now and then and re-oil it.

for the record, i also still own my first press, one of the Lee Anniversary kits. i use it to work up custom loads or try new loads, and i use it to load really oddball stuff like 45-70 black powder rounds with 550 gr bullets. there is nothing wrong with a single-stage press, and i guarantee if you have one you will still use it.

andy b.

[HighWall]

Okay then Dillon it is,sent for a catalog today.Thanks for the advice.

I know that among many shooters, Dillon is somewhat of a religion. I will admit that I've never owned one, mostly because my shooting interests have been more along the lines of target, varmint and Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette shooting, so I've been forced to use more single stage loaders, with one exception.

I have owned many different brands and designs...RCBS, Ponsness and Warren, Lee, Redding, Custom Products, Harrell and many others. To tell the truth, my "go to" setup is a Lee Cast Classic Turret press. I just love using it.

Many times, I have found my progressive presses are hard to tune and keep working. I've had many issues with primer feed and powder measuring which requires a break in the loading and disassembly in order to vacuum out spilled powder grains and get everything working again. What I like about the semi progressive Lee Turret press is that there is always the opportunity to pause and check things out, pull the brass out for a separate procedure performed on a different tool and adapt other brands of measures and dies for specific needs. You are also in control of the primer right up to the moment it's seated in the case. Their primer flip tray design is the best I've tried as well. It's a very flexible design, in addition to being very inexpensive. I don't think I have very much interest in the cast aluminum or pot metal Lee products, but the cast iron Classic series is quite servicable. I've even shot some very decent groups with my .20 Vartarg 40X using their funky automatic powder measure. I'm talking 5 shots at 100 yards in the sub .200" range, which really surprised me, given the fact that I've never really been much of a benchrest shooter, other than load development and testing.

Just thought I'd give it a mention.

[piniongear]

Reloading since 1973 here.
I bought myself a Dillon 650 a few years ago. Best press I ever have found, BUT,,,,,,,,,,
While it is absolutely unmatchable for piston rounds, I found it to be somewhat of a pain for rifle loading.
With pistol rounds I am interested in cranking out as many rounds as possible in the shortest amount of time. The Dillon does that with perfection!

When it comes to rifle loading though, I am a lot more interested in taking my time, measuring out the powder exactly, and seating the bullets carefully and getting the correct bullet extension from the case.
I find the Dillon is not the best answer for me in that situation.

So, for rifle rounds I use two Rockchucker presses, mounted side by side.
I size and deprime on the first press, drop in the powder, then move to the second press where I load the bullet to complete the round. Just the way I prefer to do my reloading........... pg

[andy_b]

Many times, I have found my progressive presses are hard to tune and keep working. I've had many issues with primer feed and powder measuring which requires a break in the loading and disassembly in order to vacuum out spilled powder grains and get everything working again.

that's because you don't own a Dillon. :)

you KNEW i had to say that. :) :)

seriously, all i do with my 550 is wipe it off on occasion and oil the pivots. the only adjustment needed is when setting up the dies for a new round or adjusting the powder charge. even changing the primer feed only takes a few minutes once you realize what parts need to be aligned, and they are basically self-aligning if you pay attention.

a co-worker of mine has one of the Lee progressive machines (is it the Lee 1000 maybe???). he said he bought it "because the Dillon presses are too expensive". every time he'd use it the next day he would come in and complain to me about how progressive presses are junk and he didn't know why i even used mine because there was no way the ammo would be very accurate, and it took almost as long to load 100 rounds on his progressive machine as on his single stage machine. i never said anything to him because he was firmly of the opinion that progressive presses sucked. i don't think i've ever heard such complaining from anyone with a Dillon product.

andy b.

[plastikosmd]

they need adjustment? I dont think I have done a thing to my 550 since I have owned it. I do sort of agree with pinion regarding rifle loading. Not that i have had accuracy problems and I get excellent round-round uniformity..but cranking out 20 rounds of my new load in a couple of minutes sorta gets it done it too fast..if there is such a thing!

[slugger]

A Dillon press- at least the 550 or 650 XL are not ideal rifle reloading presses. They work pretty good for .223 when you are just cranking volume but you will get a lot of loads that aren't the same as the rest.

If you want some speed while reloading rifle stuff, I would recommend the Redding T-7 turret press. You can mount several dies in in and is saves some time in set-up, especially when you are making small runs of different loads.

This press is very robust and top of the line. I had a Lyman turret press but the turret was smaller diameter and the locking rings on the dies would interfere with each other so I sold it. The Redding is better. For plain old single stage- any of the cast iron presses are just fine. I like the Boss or Rock chucker but have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on a 1973 vintage RCBS junior press.

I gave my Dillon to my father in law so he could load 9mm with it. I sometimes wish I had it for 44 mag but that is the only thing I load for that leaves me wanting.

[Kart29]

I started re-loading with a Lee Loader I bought off of e-bay for $13. That and a non-marring mallet was all I needed to make my first re-loads that all fired very nicely, thank you very much. Now, I have probably a grand total of $150 invested in all my reloading equipment which covers me for two calibers. I think I can produce just as good of rounds as the guys who have spent hundreds if not thousands on reloading equipment. I just can't do it as fast. I don't care, I don't load more than about 150 rounds a year anyhow. All my stuff is Lee and I couldn't be happier with it. I think a Lee Anniversary kit is the best way to get started. If you find later that you want faster or better equipment you can always sell the old Lee stuff and buy better tools later if you think you need them. On the other hand, if you try out reloading and find out it's just not for you... well, you didn't spend a lot of money on it anyhow.

That's what I think.

:)

[slugger]

I think I can produce just as good of rounds as the guys who have spent hundreds if not thousands on reloading equipment. I just can't do it as fast. I don't care, I don't load more than about 150 rounds a year anyhow. All my stuff is Lee and I couldn't be happier with it.
:)

You can think all you want, but if the expensive stuff wasn't working, we would all be using Lee. If you will buy a case runnout gauge, you will see if you are making good loads or not. It was a real eye opener when I made my first one.

I can make straighter loads on my Bonanza dies than I can on my Lees.

[Kart29]

Alright then... Nobody should even waste their time starting into loading their own ammo unless they are willing to spend thousands of dollars on top notch equipment and get all technical with bullet runnout gages and case neck turners and brass annealing equipment. Of course, you'll need to build an addition on the house for your reloading room, too. Really, reloading is for benchrest shooters only and nobody else should get involved in it. Does that sound about right?

Good grief. The guy is just getting started. He needs to be thinking about how not to blow his face off and doesn't need to start out worrying about bullet runnout and neck wall thickness.

I guess the folks who can figure out how to produce good ammo with Lee equipment are the same type of folks who can figure out how to check bullet runnout without needing a specialized gage.

[gmatov]

Kart,

You're right. All these guys are wasting money loading ammo to a tenth grain and to a tenth run out. They could be puting case, primer, powder and ball together willy nilly and STILL hit that hill over there.

Hell, It's bigger than a barn door. What more do you need?

I shoot a couple 44 mags and a couple 357s when I shoot cartridge. I can't afford to buy new. I use a Lee progressive for my loading. It has done well for me.I have 6mm/284, 7mm/308, when I load them, admittedly not for years, I used a CH C-frame.

The Lee will put out pistol cartridges quickly and pretty accurately for me.

I shoot pretty nearly all front stuffer cap'n ball revolver, today.

Wierd,

I will caution you and your boss. If he has deep pockets, I would suggest he not load for "friends". All it would take is one squib load and a rechamber of another round to blow up a rifle and put out one of his "friend's" eyes to clean him out. Friendship ends where a lawsuit begins.

I wouldn't load for my best friend, and how much insurance you carry doesn't mean a thing. The more you carry, the more they will ask for.

Cheers,

George

[Kart29]

You've completely mischaracterized what I said.

I said the Lee Anniversary kit is a great way to get started without investing alot of money and if you find reloading enjoyable, you can sell the Lee stuff and upgrade to better equipment later if you want to. You can go back and read it if you want. It's right there in black and white.

Or, this fellow could do like a friend of mine... spend gazillions of dollars on reloading equipment, custom made AR and $1,000 Leupold scope. Then we go out to the range and his rifle and reloads won't shoot as tight of a group as I can do with my $189 Handi-Rifle, hand-me-down 4X scope, and $150 worth of reloading equipment.

Just because it's expensive doesn't always mean it's much better.

[piniongear]

Just because it's expensive doesn't always mean it's much better.

No it does not mean better.
But for those of us who do have the money, we want to buy the very best equipment that we can.
Buying the best does not mean it is better, but it most likely makes us happy and content with the activity.
So don't dash our happiness with your low-ball outlook on equipment. Same rule applies to buying machine tools, automobiles etc, etc............ pg

[gmatov]

Ah, ****. I gotta get one from PG who says "I can AFFORD better"!

Kart says buy what you can afford. Upgrade when you can. IF you can convince yourself that caseneck uniformity and concentricity are the means to get another 1/10 inch smaller group. Case mouth trimmer seems like extraneous tooling until you learn better.

Weighing the cases and cc'ing the cases is WAY too esoteric. Brand to brand, cases are not the same. Lot to lot, the same brand cases are not the same. Possible box to box, or case from the box to another case from the same box is not the same.

So, if you are going to Williamsport for the 1000 yard matches, and can't keep 10 inside 8 inches, you are showing that you either can't shoot or you can't reload.

Of COURSE you can shoot. You would never think of going if you weren't a good shooter. With bad reloads, CUSTOM ammunition, that is poorly made, forget it.

If Kart's friend, who spent "gazillions" on reloading equipment, 1000 buck Unertl, and he can outshoot him with his "Handi-Rifle", the guy simply can't shoot. A shooter who can will wipe you out of the match.

Back to Wierd, I would not load any round for my best friend, unless I were in the business and had specific coverage as a reloader. All your friend has to do is plug the barrel with mud to blow it up in his face.

Friends have asked me to load. I tell them no. Friend used to load for me 40 years ago. Less litigous atmosphere, then. Today it is "Can I sue?"

Cheers,

George

[Kart29]

Oh yeah. That's it. It MUST have been the shooter, then. No other possible explanation. :D You snobbish sorts crack me up.

No, I didn't say "buy what you can afford". Do you have some kind reading comprehension problem or something?

[wierdscience]

Wierd,

I will caution you and your boss. If he has deep pockets, I would suggest he not load for "friends". All it would take is one squib load and a rechamber of another round to blow up a rifle and put out one of his "friend's" eyes to clean him out. Friendship ends where a lawsuit begins.

I wouldn't load for my best friend, and how much insurance you carry doesn't mean a thing. The more you carry, the more they will ask for.

Cheers,

George

Point taken George,"friends" will only include those who are compitent to load their own(already have a single station of their own) and the offer will extend only to time on the machine.

It's his and my hobby,theirs is their's they can load their own.

[clint]

I just scanned over the post

I agree with others jumping in with a progressive press may not be the best way to start this out. I think I good O frame press would serve him well, and teach him a lot at the same time. I have spent a LOT of money on presses, Redding UltraMag, Forster Bonanza etc, if I were purchasing a new press right now it would be the Lee Cast Iron press, it's an outstanding press for the money, and in my opinion beats several other well respected presses in both quality of build, where it's built ( in the USA) and when you look at the price that's saying something, and also tolerances held, along with the primer through ram feature that I have come to not only appreciate, it's a must have when purchasing a new press. He can scrounge ebay etc, however Midsouth has some of the best prices going overall, however when I purchased Midway had a super low price on the Lee cast as a kind of introductory for the press. Everyone has their own preferences, I prefer Redding or Hornady dies, both are great dies.

I have a Redding Big Boss, and modified the ram for primer through feature, it has worked perfect, I need to put a brass nipple on the end or a brass threaded adapter for primer collection, it's a easy mod to bring an older press up to date.

The Redding UltraMag is a great press, the one thing I didn't care about it was the position of work, it was uncomfortable to me, an offset O frame works much better how I load ammo. I also have the Forster Bonanza Co-Ax, which is my normal go to press, I like the easy in-out die feature, very easy for pretty much every step, it also is a great priming tool.

[mf205i]

If you like service, quality, price, resale value and did I mention SERVICE, then buy a Dillon. If the before mentioned qualities repulse you, then buy something from Hornady. I have been an avid reloader since the early seventies and over the years I have owned or at least used most of them. Then, in the eighties, my friend became a commercial reloader and that was when our education really began. The Bonanza Co Ax on my bench is for load development, and of course there is an OLD green one still in the corner, but the Dillon’s are what I use for my shooting ammo, even the good stuff! If a box or so of ammo a night is acceptable to you, then a good single stage press will provide good ammo, but unless you have a ton of time or need something special, I would not recommend one as my only press. This is not a Ford vs. Chevy thing, the differences are real.
Jump in; it’s a great hobby, Mike
P.S. buy primers!

[pcarpenter]

I apologize for posting something and then not reading for responses in a reasonable time frame.

As for regular adjustment...the Dillon setup allows for dies to be set up on one of their shellplates in a fixed fashion. If you always load the same bullet and overall cartridge length, then you won't have a lot of messing around after the initial fiddling to get the OAL right etc. If you are likely not to ever experiment and just want to crank out lots of a single load, this production type thinking makes a lot of sense. In a sense, the fact that they advertise that their presses mean you don't have to keep adjusting anything is under the assumption that you don't *want* to adjust things.

I too found that for a lot of stuff, I may load 50 of a given load at at time or as mentioned, I might be tweaking things to optimize accuracy and may produce a given load with the bullet seated in increasing increments toward the rifling lands (a common step toward greater accuracy). That inherently means that I adjust the seating die. I may load 5 at one OAL and 5 more at a different OAL etc.

I would address the progressive vs single stage question separately from the question of whether I want to ever touch the adjustment on my dies. Even with a single stage press, the basic die adjusment is held with a lock ring, allowing you to install and remove the die ad-nauseum without *any* tweaking if you so desire. The bullet seating stem in the seating die is likewise held with either a lock nut, o-ring, etc, so that it does not have to change.

As such, if I want to make ammo with the same bullet seating depth etc. I can just pull the die, put it back in its box, get the die set out the next time and just thread it into the press without messing with anything. A third alternative if even threading the die into the press is objectionable, is a "turret" press. I used to own a Lyman T-mag press. It has interchangable turrets that hold 6 dies each and you can move from one die to another by rotating a turret. Practically speaking, you still batch operations....ie, size and decap a whole batch, re-prime the batch, index the turret to the case flaring die and flare them all, charge all the cases, rotate the turret to the bullet seating die and seat a bullet in all of them.

I too find that I load for precision in nearly all of my rifle rounds. I may load 50-100 rounds and may tweak things a bit in that batch....and I may even load fewer rounds than that.

That having been said, I do also load bigger batches for semi-auto pistols and for my AR-15 in a situation where the load is pretty consistent and I would love the efficiency of cranking out more rounds per hour. When I can afford it, I may add an RL-550B some day. It will make sense for those handful of cartridges, but buying thier caliber change kit (times ten) so I could load maybe 10 other cartridge loadings in which I load fewer at a time is not very cost effective. In short, I would not want this to be my only press.

As someone else mentioned, the thing that will take more time than adjusting dies will be re-tweaking a powder measure, dumping a load, measuring, dumping it back, adjusting, dumping again and remeasuring...etc.etc.etc. That will be the piece that will take far longer than adjusting dies. If you want to avoid this piece, it would mean a powder measure per caliber (added to the cost of the caliber change kit) with the progressive press.

When you want to do that sort of charge changing while loading a smaller batch on a non-progressive press, you just forego the powder measure and just hand measure and hand-trickle each load. this makes sense when loading maybe 5-10 of a given load at a time. As previously mentioned, an alternative to this with a non-progressive press is that RCBS Chargemaster or another brand of a similar design. You put the powder in the hopper, punch in a charge weight and it comes out (measured each time) in the scale pan.

One other issue that this brings up is that in using a progressive press, if something gets out of "sync" (maybe you find a damaged case after it was re-primed and sized), the "process" is messed up. Why is this important? Because every pull of the handle will complete each of the operations on one case or another. Pitch that damaged case, and now when that "position" gets over to the powder charging location, that powder will either go everywhere or must be cought in a tray. If all goes well, the efficiency of this progressive nature is worth the extra attention it requires to insure you do not end up making a round that contains no powder (very dangerous because it can stick a bullet in the barrel) or double-charge one (very dangerous for more obvious reasons). In my opinion, progressive presses are not for the beginner. All reloading requires attention to detail. A progressive press requires it in a different fashion--potentially in several operations at once.

I hope this all is not too confusing. There really are lots of alternatives. I just treat a progressive press (own one for shotgun shells) as being best applied to something you do in large quantities only.

Paul

[andy_b]

Jump in; it’s a great hobby, Mike
P.S. buy primers!

DO NOT LISTEN TO MIKE!!! I REPEAT, DO NOT LISTEN TO MIKE!!!
(at least don't listen to him until AFTER i have bought at least 20,000 primers myself :) )




Pitch that damaged case, and now when that "position" gets over to the powder charging location, that powder will either go everywhere or must be cought in a tray. If all goes well, the efficiency of this progressive nature is worth the extra attention it requires to insure you do not end up making a round that contains no powder (very dangerous because it can stick a bullet in the barrel) or double-charge one (very dangerous for more obvious reasons). In my opinion, progressive presses are not for the beginner. All reloading requires attention to detail. A progressive press requires it in a different fashion--potentially in several operations at once.

Paul

on a Dillon 550 the powder charge die will not drop a charge unless a case is in the die. i just thought i'd toss that out there. as mentioned though, if you interrupt the flow of a progressive press, you must be very mindful of what is going to happen until you get everything synched again.

andy b.

[mf205i]

Andy, thanks for the WHAT THE ---- moment! You had me going for a second or two. I was remembering the nineties! These folks are smart, making bullets and propellant is doable, but what in the heck are you going to do about primers?

Paul, you sound like the victim of a long and personal relationship with a Mec grabber. Did I guess correctly? Don’t make the mistake of transferring your experience with the Mec to the Dillon 550. Dillon truly has turned progressive reloading into a civilized undertaking, even for very small quantities. You sound like an old hand at this so I am confident that you owe it to yourself to try the Dillon. I shared your concerns and I resisted for years and when I finally tried one, there was no going back.
In case you are wondering, I am not a shill for Dillon or for anyone else; it is just “Been There Done That” and a love of the sport.
Have a good one, Mike

[pcarpenter]

on a Dillon 550 the powder charge die will not drop a charge unless a case is in the die. i just thought i'd toss that out there. as mentioned though, if you interrupt the flow of a progressive press, you must be very mindful of what is going to happen until you get everything synched again.

I certainly understand the point that the measure requires that it hit a case mouth to instigate the charging, but the trouble you have when you pull (and dispose of) a case from a progressive is getting another one ready up to that point in order to take its place.

Certainly, the progressive shotshell presses are more crude than the progressive presses for reloading pistol or rifle ammo, but its still a process that is most practical only if spitting out quite a few of a load that are all the same.

I just would not want a progressive press to be my only press and the only hardware I had for measuring powder to be tied to a progressive press. The progressive presses typically aren't as rigid as a nice cast iron o-frame press for full length sizing brass (or case forming in the case of a wildcat) so it can be nice to have an O-frame press as well...and they are not that expensive. I don't own one and am in general not that impressed with the quality of some of the Lee stuff I do have, but their O-frame is a bargain at about $75. I own an RCBS Rockchucker and its not much more. The lee press is cast iron rather than the pot metal they seem to like to make some of their other stuff from. I have one of their powder measures made from a zinc like substance and its warped and worn to the point that it dribbles powder everywhere.

One of the nice things is that you don't loose much financially to start with an o-frame single stage press and then add a Dillon machine for the calibers you want to mass-load. things like a powder scale etc are all still useful. If a guy wanted to only buy one measure and have it later work on the Dillon press, buy their powder measure up front. In my case, I have three measures already and will still leave them pre-set for some stuff I load in smaller volumes even when I add a progressive press for the volume reloading. I guess in that sense you can't have too many powder measures. I only wish the RCBS Chargemaster had been available back when I first got into this hobby.

Paul

[plastikosmd]

and most important, let's not forget the dillion catalogue you get every month with the product appropriately 'modeled' ;)

[andy_b]

Andy, thanks for the WHAT THE ---- moment! You had me going for a second or two. I was remembering the nineties! These folks are smart, making bullets and propellant is doable, but what in the heck are you going to do about primers?

Have a good one, Mike

i knew that would sneak up on some people. :)

there is a guy near me who runs a mail-order reloading supply business. he said it is insane lately. yes, i also remember the 90s when the "great primer scare" turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. a few people can't find primers, and next thing you know guys are going out and buying 5000 pc cases and then there really WAS a shortage. that is what is happening now. the guy near me said he gets a shipment in every week, but folks don't trust those shipments to keep arriving. so far i have been able to get anything i wanted from one of several sources i try.

and to Paul C.,
i just want to say i agree with everything you said above.


andy b.

[neophyte]

Let me say I have been doing this (reloading) for about 40yrs. I have gone thru more presses and brand names in the "maturing" process than I care to mention.
If you are fixed on a single stage my choice would be a Bonanza Co-Ax press IMHO. It is simple ,accurate and direct. Now if you are talking about ANYTHING else it would be my current press...A Dillon 550B. I have found none better. Great ,well designed product with an outstanding Customer Service group.

Commit this line to memory:

"SOONER OR LATER YOU WILL BUY A DILLON"