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Frank Ford
02-24-2009, 09:59 PM
I just finished up a batch of 8-32 brass knruled thumbscrews on my little Rambold turret lathe, and I'm putting together an article for HomeShopTech on the process.

http://www.frets.com/ForumPix/oettingerscrew.jpg

Meanwhile, I also tested out the movie function on my camera for the first time and posted a small video on YouTube. I ran the camera on a tripod and basically reached around it to operate the lathe. I had to forgo squirting oil on the knurl. It was also my first use of a die head - I'm SOLD!

http://www.frets.com/ForumPix/rambold2.jpg

I hadn't even considered that the camera would also record sound, so the background music was what I had on in the shop at the time.

Enjoy:
Rambold's Further Adventures (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr4aN23XGz0)

wierdscience
02-24-2009, 10:09 PM
Nice little turret lathe Frank.I like the box mill,is that homebrew or a bought item?

ClintonH
02-24-2009, 10:16 PM
That's really nice, never seen one before wouldn't have known what it was if I had. It looks very handy.

Clinton

FatWheels
02-24-2009, 10:21 PM
Thanks for posting Frank, nice work as always. The music was nice too, kind of like the music in one of those thirties black and white cartoons where the action scenes repeat themselves in a loop, sort of like a screw machine, hmmmm . . .

I've never seen a die head like that in use, does it have for lack of a better term, a thread chaser, or does it single point the thread? Also it looks like it's spring loaded and opens after tripping a catch approaching the shoulder. Very clever, to be sure.


When someone says to disregard all the old kinks and methods from the old timers I think, yeah, let's go out and reinvent the wheel because we just arrived on the engineering scene fifteen minutes ago. Well, maybe I just arrived fifteen minutes ago, but I'd rather learn from those blue hairs all that I can.

regards,

Jim

dp
02-24-2009, 10:46 PM
That was fun - Thanks, Frank. I've never seen one of the smaller turret lathes in action. It cranks out the parts quickly.

fishfrnzy
02-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Frank,

That is a very nice tool for the work you do. 5 operations while reaching around the camera in less than 60 seconds each per part. Very close to the speed of the CNCs I've seen run similar.

Thanks

JRouche
02-24-2009, 11:11 PM
Oh yeah, I love that lil turret. Still gonna offer you some money for it :)

I dont know, I must be weird but I could watch that again a few times. Must be the music. Nice work. JR

Ken_Shea
02-24-2009, 11:11 PM
That is really sweet Frank !

ZINOM
02-24-2009, 11:22 PM
MAN!!...That was great....I don't come from a machining background so I don't get to see operations as slick as that.

Nice treat, thanks for posting it Frank.

John

jkilroy
02-24-2009, 11:28 PM
Thats begging for a bath in light cutting oil, is that machine setup for it?

torker
02-24-2009, 11:42 PM
Frank...thanks for the look. I'm liking your knurling setup. I may put that same deal on my turret machine.
Russ.

Roy Andrews
02-25-2009, 09:05 AM
frank, thanks for the video but it just proves my disease. while i have little or no need for one now i want one, its just so cute. I'm from the bigger is better school and i still like it.

S_J_H
02-25-2009, 10:56 AM
That is a really nice little lathe! I would love to own one of those!

Steve

Frank Ford
02-25-2009, 11:09 AM
ZINOM - I don't come from a machining background either - that's why this stuff is so exciting to me these days!

jkilroy - yes the machine is set up for flood coolant and there's a drain in the chip pan, although the pump is long gone, as are all the original electricals. I'm hesitant to use it because of the mess.

Jim - I grew up in the 50s, listening to 20s dance music instead of R/B & Rock/Roll (my choice). Still keep that stuff on my iPod, along with other arcane tunes. This is the first time I've seen a die head in action, too. Another eBay item, I bought it a few months ago along with a bunch of chasers. It holds full form teeth, like a regular die, and they spring open at the end of the cut - way neat, and intuitive for setup.

The head contains four full form thread cutting inserts, each of which have about a half inch of threads on them. Theoretically, you need a set of inserts for each thread pitch and diameter, but there is a fair range of diameter adjustment. On the next job I cut 6-32 threads with the same 8-32 jaws.

I'll have bigger pix on the HomeShopTech site soon, but here are some previews:

First, you close the head to the cutting diameter, by moving the red knob, bringing in the jaws:


http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews27s.jpg

Here's the head, ready to cut:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews29s.jpg

I have my hand behind the head to press it forward, simulating its action at the end of the cut when the turret has hit its end stop and the front of the head springs forward a bit, like this, opening the jaws to clear them for retracting the head:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews30s.jpg

heavy metal machine
02-25-2009, 11:18 AM
how hard was it to set the diameter for your turn tool? does it support the bar stock while the tool is cutting?

nice job and well done. thanks for sharing.

Deja Vu
02-25-2009, 11:23 AM
That's a nice little side tool! ...and you work it so smoothly.

Seems there would be a demand for those....are they still around?

From what others have said, they might be under appreciated.

mikew
02-25-2009, 03:33 PM
Sheesh! and I was going to compliment you on the music. (Guess you just have a better class of background music in your shop than I do :-)

The thread die tool deserves a detailed video on its own (hint, hint).

Thanks (as usual),

Mike

Your Old Dog
02-25-2009, 03:54 PM
Nice setup Frank. Only problem I see with it is it makes it looks so easy that you couldn't possibly charge for the work!

aboard_epsilon
02-25-2009, 04:08 PM
Sheesh! and I was going to compliment you on the music. (Guess you just have a better class of background music in your shop than I do :-)

The thread die tool deserves a detailed video on its own (hint, hint).

Thanks (as usual),

Mike

nice vid..........great set up.

sounds like he has Laurel and Hardy films playing in the back ground. :D

all the best.markj

Bill in Ky
02-25-2009, 04:41 PM
Nice video. Great little machine there.
Oh I liked the music..
d:^)

laddy
02-25-2009, 05:06 PM
GREAT!!! Never saw a turret lathe in action. Now I can see why one would be very useful. The music fit perfect. You have the action down! I expected Stymey, Spanky and Alphalfa to do the final credits! Thanks Best regards Fred

JBL37
02-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Frank: Thanks for the schooling. JIm

10KPete
02-25-2009, 09:56 PM
I just love stuff like that little turret lathe! Sweet!

Is that KALW you're listening to??

Pete

rockrat
02-25-2009, 10:35 PM
Thats a fantastic example of a turret lathe properly set up. I'm curious if the threader head is a Geometric? That was about all we used at the old place.

Greenfield used to carry the chasers. They were very good about tech support on the chasers. I think that I have a larger head sitting around here somewhere.

Oh, did you tell us what you were making the thumb screw for?


rock~

dp
02-25-2009, 11:01 PM
I downloaded the video so I could run it again and again at various magnifications and I still cannot figure out the geometry of the turning tool. Never seen one like it, Frank. Does it act like it's own follower?

dp
02-25-2009, 11:33 PM
There's a similar lathe for sale on CraigsList. No association, just saw it while browsing. Its a Hardinge HSL-5C:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/tls/1049020394.html

Spin Doctor
02-26-2009, 06:44 AM
Tried for a couple of Rambolds on fleabay. Lost out both times. Seems like they sold more on the West Coast

Just in case http://www.lathes.co.uk/rambold/

rockrat
02-26-2009, 08:00 AM
I downloaded the video so I could run it again and again at various magnifications and I still cannot figure out the geometry of the turning tool. Never seen one like it, Frank. Does it act like it's own follower?

It looks to be similar to a hollow mill or closer yet to a box tool.

rock~

Circlip
02-26-2009, 10:23 AM
Used to get real exiting when the die head got "Stuck" and didn't release.

Regards Ian.

gotchips
02-26-2009, 10:34 AM
Frank, I have to say that I truly enjoy your web site Frets.com .I have implemented several of your ideas in my own shop

Thanks,
Dale

Frank Ford
02-26-2009, 11:24 AM
Thanks, all, for the good words!


The head is a Geometric, and quite a trip. Not too tricky to setup, even for a first-timer with no instructions. Took a little while to get the diameter correct, but it got easier with the second batch of parts.

The turning tool is a thing I made up. I took a few photos of it, but not a full series of the process. It rides on the unturned portion of the 5/16 rod for support , and cuts nicely, but a pain to make:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews04s.jpg

I do have a regular turret box tool but it just won't go down small enough in size. I'll try to post the video of it in action later today on another project.

Those screws are for the famous Oetinger banjo tailpiece from the 1920s. Seems like they are always getting lost. There are some for sale on the Internet, but they have diamond knurl, so they really don't match up.

Here's a shot of the backside of the tailpiece, my new brass screw alongside three nickel plated originals:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews22s.jpg


That's not the radio - just my iPod - I'm always behind the times in taste. . .

Frank Ford
02-26-2009, 11:26 AM
As to Rambold (itself, himself?) -

I bought the Rambold off eBay from a guy in Colorado, whom I believe I have reason to trust. He'd gotten it from somebody who'd "professionally" rebuilt it, and he'd never actually used it.

Well, it was professionally rebuilt - except for the broken motor pulley (a unique stepped one, of course) and the unobtainable Kaiser two speed motor with toasted high speed windings - 850/3450 RPM to suit the unusual pulley setup. Oh, and the spindle bearings were absolutely dead - one completely crumbled, but packed with such thick grease it almost felt smooth when turned by hand.

The paint job was great, and the machine clearly torn completely down to do it, so the rebuilder went to some actual effort to screw it up. Now I have it set up with a 1-HP three phase and static VFD converter. I won't talk about the final cost of this little guy - could've gotten a Hardinge Chucker locally for as much. But then it fits the tiny space I have, and it's a great solid little tool.

Long ago I learned to believe the deathless line in the 1921 Gibson mandolin/guitar catalog that addressed their incredibly high prices:

"Gives satisfaction long after the price is forgotten."



"The cost of the gear is not as significant as whether you actually use it." - I said that.

10KPete
02-26-2009, 11:59 AM
That's not the radio - just my iPod - I'm always behind the times in taste. . .

I asked 'cause there is a small FM station run by Menlo-Atherton High School (I think I got that right) that plays (or did in the '90's anyway) nothing but that type of music. No commercials, just really good music.

My shop radio is on XM-4 all the time. :D

Pete

Bob Farr
02-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Frank,

Thank you for taking the time to make and post that video. Your Rambold is a very interesting machine.

Bob

aboard_epsilon
02-26-2009, 12:31 PM
I've got a couple of things called roller boxes that do sort of the same thing.

one exactly like this i had off ebay last year for 15


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tangi-Flow-Rollerbox-Type-AR-T1_W0QQitemZ170282059020QQihZ007QQcategoryZ121893Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

bought them for my HC and for a mod that I'm adding to my 1024

they come in all sorts of sizes ..so watch out for them .

they are like a travelling steady and tool all in one ...

you can size bar rod down, as long as your lathe in one go, without having to worry about deflection.

the 1024 mod..

A turret attachment called a bottle holder ...fits on to the cross-slide and is always on-centre when you wind the cross-slide all the way to-wards yourself.

shown here on Alwyn's smart and brown 1024 vsl...so your normal lathe can be converted to run turret tools.

with drill..........you can drill under power

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/TT7.jpg

with die head

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/TT5.jpg

with rollerbox

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/TT6.jpg

all the best.markj

Nick Carter
02-26-2009, 04:39 PM
As always, just great work. Have you thought about getting a knurling tool for your turret? I'm in love with the things. They use two straight knurls that you can set at any angle to provide straight or diamond knurling.

Liger Zero
02-26-2009, 05:01 PM
Ok thanks for this thread, I run a turret in production so this is neat stuff.

...never seen either a box-mill or a die-head like that, I'll have to see about locating small ones for home to experiment with.

Interestingly enough we use mostly stock carbide shapes and some custom made tooling at work but nothing like this.

No need to really for what we do but I'm always interested in learning more never know when it might prove useful.

rockrat
02-26-2009, 05:39 PM
I at first thought about something similar to this for turning diameters in a setup similar to Franks.

Click for larger image
http://www.geneseemfg.com/products/hollowmill/positive-small.gif (http://www.geneseemfg.com/products/hollowmill/positive-large.jpg)

But I do like what you came up with Frank. Nice work. Thanks for your response.

rock~

Liger Zero
02-26-2009, 05:41 PM
I at first thought about something similar to this for turning diameters in a setup similar to Franks.

http://www.geneseemfg.com/products/hollowmill/positive-large.jpg

But I do like what you came up with Frank. Nice work. Thanks for your response.

rock~

Now that I've used. The ones I use have four cutters. Depending on what cutters I select I can cut multi-part steps in one stroke.

Never seen the sort in the video though.

airsmith282
02-26-2009, 05:44 PM
thats one sweeet machine ill have to find one some day just for making screws on if anything ,, awesome video love the old timmer music with the video well suited

Frank Ford
02-26-2009, 05:46 PM
I have a hollow mill just like that one, but it causes the work to jump all over the place. Probably need to learn how to use it.

I also have the Hardinge turret lathe tool but I can't figure a way for it to do straight knurls without double-tracking about half the time. Maybe I could replace one knurl with a blank roller.

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Any chance of getting more detail on the home-made tool you have there?

Frank Ford
02-27-2009, 11:38 AM
I have one of those "box" turret tools now, but when I did this project I didn't have any way to turn the shaft without support, so I made up my own cutter.

I took a piece of 0-1 drill rod and drilled it from the business end to the finish diameter I wanted, and then drilled a flat bottom step with a 5/16" end mill so it could ride on the unturned section of the 5/16" brass stock. Then I drilled from the back side for clearance, leaving only about 5/32" of the small diameter intact.

Sorry, but I had only my point-and-shoot at the time, so some of the shots got screwed up on focus. Here are the ones that survived:

After drilling the blank, I milled out a section for chip clearance, and so I could see what I was doing for the rest of the tool-making:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products//OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews01s.jpg


Here's what it looked like so far:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products//OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews02s.jpg

Then I relieved the step behind what would be my cutting lip, with the part centered on a rotary table and using a small end mill:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products//OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews03s.jpg

This is where the pictures crap out.

The last shot is of the finished tool, and you can see on the left, where I drove a cut at an angle (back toward my finger in this photo) to produce the top rake on the cutting lip:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products//OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews04.jpg

I think you can also see where I ended up chewing off the inner lip - now I don't remember if that was on purpose or an accident. Regarless, it's not needed since the front of the tool rides nicely on the uncut stock.

From there it was cherry red, dunked in oil, and baked in the kitchen at 375 degrees for an hour to temper. I cleaned up the outside of the tool because it was easy to do, and sharpened the cutting lip with a simple diamond pocket hone. The inside has that nice crispy, scaly baked oil finish.

The tool does cut very nicely and supports the work as it goes, but since it only handles one job, it's clearly not versatile. It took a lot longer to make this tool that it would have to set up just about any turret operation, but then getting there is half the fun, yes?

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Thank you. I'll see what I can come up with when I get some "real Mill" time.

oldtiffie
02-27-2009, 12:11 PM
ZINOM - I don't come from a machining background either - that's why this stuff is so exciting to me these days!

jkilroy - yes the machine is set up for flood coolant and there's a drain in the chip pan, although the pump is long gone, as are all the original electricals. I'm hesitant to use it because of the mess.

Jim - I grew up in the 50s, listening to 20s dance music instead of R/B & Rock/Roll (my choice). Still keep that stuff on my iPod, along with other arcane tunes. This is the first time I've seen a die head in action, too. Another eBay item, I bought it a few months ago along with a bunch of chasers. It holds full form teeth, like a regular die, and they spring open at the end of the cut - way neat, and intuitive for setup.

The head contains four full form thread cutting inserts, each of which have about a half inch of threads on them. Theoretically, you need a set of inserts for each thread pitch and diameter, but there is a fair range of diameter adjustment. On the next job I cut 6-32 threads with the same 8-32 jaws.

I'll have bigger pix on the HomeShopTech site soon, but here are some previews:

First, you close the head to the cutting diameter, by moving the red knob, bringing in the jaws:


http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews27s.jpg

Here's the head, ready to cut:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews29s.jpg

I have my hand behind the head to press it forward, simulating its action at the end of the cut when the turret has hit its end stop and the front of the head springs forward a bit, like this, opening the jaws to clear them for retracting the head:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews30s.jpg

Lovely job all round Frank.

The die-head is generically known as a "Coventry Die Head":
http://www.threadtools.com/Files/Coventry%20technical%20info.pdf

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/ward/Diehead1.htm

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=coventry+die+head&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

They go back a long long way.

I first used them as a 1st. Year Apprentice in 1952 - 57 years ago.

Turret and capstan work was all part of the training as it could be very boring, but if you took an interest in it, it sure taught you a lot about tooling, set-ups, sequencing etc. as well as getting over-developed chest, arm and shoulder muscles!!.

My first capstan experience was on a SB clone on which the turret was a removable accessory. Later on it was the "big stuff" - "Ward" and "Herbert" capstan and turret lathes. They would have to be some of the best engine lathes I ever used!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turret_lathe

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=turret+lathe&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=85415

http://images.google.com.au/images?hl=en&q=capstan+lathe&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=aByoSZFZnP7pA57c8bgL&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title

http://www.mechanicalindetail.info/turret-capstan-automatic-lathes/capstan-lathe-introduction.htm

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=capstan+lathe&btnG=Search&meta=

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 12:25 PM
Turret and capstan work was all part of the training as it could be very boring, but if you took an interest in it, it sure taught you a lot about tooling, set-ups, sequencing etc. as well as getting over-developed chest, arm and shoulder muscles!!.

If it becomes boring you ain't going fast enough. :eek: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Lizoid/kittywhip.gif http://www.nusseymagazine.com/phpBB3Next/posting.php?mode=smilies&f=2# http://www.nusseymagazine.com/phpBB3Next/posting.php?mode=smilies&f=2#

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 12:40 PM
I have a hollow mill just like that one, but it causes the work to jump all over the place. Probably need to learn how to use it.

I also have the Hardinge turret lathe tool but I can't figure a way for it to do straight knurls without double-tracking about half the time. Maybe I could replace one knurl with a blank roller.

Ok I found with a hollowmill like the one pictured the following tips reduce the tendency for the tool to jump and "suck in" resulting in a taper.

1) You have to have a very clean face, first and formost. This is especially true if you are cutting steps with one. Any irregularity on the face will cause the tool to "suck in" or jump around. Maybe "deflect" is a better term?

2) A slight chamfer on your blank will allow the tool to start cutting without grabbing. Sometimes depending on the material you may actually need to start a cut with another tool before using the hollowmill to make the final diameter. One job I ran recently at work I had to come in 1/32nd of an inch lenghtwise and in about .005 in order to get the hollow-mill to stop "sucking in" to one side.

Hope that helps.


EDIT:

Just discovered while gathering information on hollow-mills that Genesee Manufacturing here in Rochester NY make them along with other sorts of tooling.

http://www.geneseemfg.com/catalog/

I have a request for information in right now on pricing and weather or not they manufacture them in the USA... hopefully here in Rochester!

Doc Nickel
02-27-2009, 03:04 PM
Frank- I'm curious as to why you figured you needed a "box tool" for this particular application. I'm just getting set up with my own (somewhat bastardized (http://www.docsmachine.com/projectpics/047-04.jpg)) turret lathe, so I'm by no means an expert. But it strikes me that for that short a cut, that free-machining a material, and with some tolerance, a simple single-point tool would have worked as well.

Not that your piece wasn't well done and clearly did the job, I'm just curious if you tried an "open" single point, and if so, if it proved unworkable for some reason.

I'm definitely going to have to get me a die head, though... I see eBay prices have come down a lot since the last time I looked a few years ago. More tooling being sold off, and fewer buyers, presumably...

Doc.

mike petree
02-27-2009, 03:49 PM
"I'm curious as to why you figured you needed a "box tool" for this particular application"

Doc,
I'm guessing that reducing the stock that much in one pass would cause some deflection with a fast feed and no support.

I have a neat little roller box tool that I'll try to post a pic of.

Mike

Frank Ford
03-05-2009, 06:30 PM
I'm guessing that reducing the stock that much in one pass would cause some deflection with a fast feed and no support.

That's just what happened when I tried it. I didn't spend much time refining technique, so maybe I could have eliminated the problem. I figured it would be handy in the future to have a dedicated tool for this thread size, and I just might make some others.


For those interested, I just put together a little article for my Web site, detailing the tooling and operation:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews.html

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Products/OettingerScrews/oettingerscrews24s.jpg

Liger Zero
03-06-2009, 10:04 AM
Thanks for that, Frank.

jdracing
09-17-2009, 09:56 AM
frank,i just joined this group last night because i
found this article after i mentioned i had a rambold
screw machine as i called it.
i have a turret lathe just like this one i do believe.
well,mine is green in color.
i was told it came from a watch parts factory,but
that may not be true.
i have all the original paperwork,and manuals that
came with it when it was purchased new in the 60s.
it even has the price paid for it back then.
what is my little toy worth today?
reason i ask is because i may have to sell it and don't won't
to shoot myself later for giving away.
i am out of work and need all i can get for it.
i am going to try and post a picture.
thanks go to anyone for any info you can give me on it's
value in todays market.
jd
my contact info is-

msjdracing@rtmc.net

OH WELL,can't figure out how to post a picture so if anyone wants
to see it you can send a reply to the email listed above.
no pm please because my computer is so slow it takes forever to open up my message center.

e-mail
msjdracing@rtmc.net

torker
09-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Geez Frank...I missed this post.
You just made up my mind...I'm going to keep my lil' Wieler turret lathe.
Russ

Frank Ford
09-17-2009, 10:55 AM
JD -

Nice to hear of another Rambold out there! I don't really know what these things are worth, except that I paid about $1600 for mine, including shipping halfway across the country. It had been recently rebuilt (by the owner before the seller), or that's what the seller thought. Too long a story to go into here, but I have good evidence the seller was being straight with me.

It had been on Craig's List for months at $1600, and it sat a long time on eBay for the same price. I got it for a $1250 offer.

Turns out the headstock bearings were totally shot, the motor burnt, and it had other smaller issues. Nice repaint job, but no way to tell original color. It was a good rehab project for me at a time when I could use one, so I don't have regrets about being a naive long-distance sucker. For the cost of bearings, motor, etc. and a couple of weekends, I had a "growth experience."

jdracing
09-17-2009, 11:45 AM
thanks for the reply frank.
how much did the rebuild cost you?
how long ago has this been?

when i bought mine i used it before i brought it home.
the man that sold it to me is as honest as the day is long.
we used it and it was smooth,and felt new to me,but i have
no idea what a new one actually feels like so for what it's worth.
anyway,it was 3 phase and i knew that upon buying.
well i bought a 1/2 to 1 hp phase converter off ebay and it had to be helped to get running and wouldn't go in high speed.
it would just click.
i think the converter was either too small,or junk.
i found a new 2 speed motor for 140.00 back in 2002,or 03.
also was told i could get a rebuilt 220 motor with 2 speed for 80.00.
i have all the paperwork from where this machine was bought new.
it cost some big money back in the 60s.

oh well,i don't think mine is worn out,but like i said i wouldn't know i don't guess unless it is obvious.
if it is obvious then mine is like new.
it has at least 26 tools and i think i seen more in the bottom of drawer.
jd

p.s.how long have you had yours?

Frank Ford
09-17-2009, 12:02 PM
I bought a phase converter from the local electric motor shop, and they tested it and the motor there. My motor would go into high speed and run just fine with no load. Back on the machine, it didn't have the torque to turn the spindle on the high speed setting. Because it was their fault in testing, they took the converter back (they are not usually returnable anywhere) and credited me for a new motor and VFD setup - that wasn't cheap, I gotta say.


I didn't keep track of expenses, but I'm sure I could never come close to selling my rig for what I have in it.

jdracing
09-17-2009, 12:12 PM
yeah,i think the guy who sold me the converter just wanted to get a sucker.
i knew nothing about any of this stuff other than i had plans.
i wanted to build stuff,but after all the back and forth i finally paid my friend
in the nascar game to make my parts on his cnc machines.

don't get me wrong though. if it was set-up i would use it. just got laid off my job about 6 months after i bought this thing.
then 2 weeks after my health insurance lapsed cause i didn't have the money to keep it after losing my job.
well,2 weeks after that i broke my back carrying a tv out the back steps of the house.
i didn't even go to the hospital.
it just healed on it's own and left my back in bad un-repairable condition.
now i live with that too.

i would just about guarantee if you put a good 2 speed motor on this one it would be ready to go.
that would also be the most simple fix for the problem i was told.

i offered it to someone for 1000.00 bucks. i figure by what you say it is worth that easily.
it cost in the thousands new in 65.
now in todays money that is several thousands for sure.
jd

if it isn't worth 1000.00 i will keep it.

jdracing
09-17-2009, 12:50 PM
when i got this lathe i got all original paperwork including the invoice for the new machine in 1965.
i was thinking it cost 6500.00,or more for some reason.
i am looking thru some paperwork and trying to find the cost and all i can find is a couple quotes for what i have.
one quote is for
1895.00 for the lathe

and
440.00 for an additional tailstock

so i either dreamed that big bucks,or haven't found the paperwork i am looking for yet.
either way, $1000.00 should be a decent price don't you think?
it has at least 30 collets and some other tools with it.
i found a price guide for those and they are 60.00 each for the ones you can still get.

let me know what you think frank?
thanks for your reply,and that great video.
that was neat.:)

jd

Frank Ford
09-17-2009, 04:30 PM
JD -

Sure, I think it has to be worth a grand! If it were here in town, I might buy it to mix and match parts with mine. . .

mikem
09-17-2009, 04:33 PM
Jdracing:

Where do you live?

jdracing
09-17-2009, 05:33 PM
Jdracing:

Where do you live?


north carolina
for enough money i will deliver.
that is money up front. not gonna make no trip till i have
cash in hand though.
jd

Doc Nickel
09-17-2009, 06:38 PM
reason i ask is because i may have to sell it and don't won't
to shoot myself later for giving away.
i am out of work and need all i can get for it.

-I'll be sending you an Email in a moment, JD, as I'm mildly interested. ('Mildly' because I'm in Alaska- shipping issues and costs will be a problem.)

That said, turret lathes, especially dedicated turret lathes (IE, that can't easily be switched over or back to standard engine lathe configuration) don't have a whole lot of demand. There are a few of us, like Frank and me, that make short-run batches of parts, that can't afford or don't want a CNC or to pay to farm the job out to a CNC shop, that can use a good turret, so they're not by any means "worthless".

But they simply don't have the value they once had. In the past year, I've seen at least three, if not half a dozen, turret lathes- typically somewhat larger ones- go for scrap rate ($200 to $300 for a 3,500lb machine) and a couple of them, in fact, did get scrapped for lack of a buyer.

Your smaller one will do a bit better, as it's much more hobby-friendly and garage-shop friendly. On the other hand, that limits it's work envelope, and the oddball and hard-to-find collet dimensions is also something of a turn-off.

I think Frank's pretty much spot-on. That little machine, assuming it has some decent accessories, and is in running condition, is worth maybe a grand, maybe a bit more depending on tooling. Things like a collet set would be a big benefit.

Doc.

jdracing
09-17-2009, 07:07 PM
now that is a trip i would take for delivery.
i always wanted to go on the ice road.
can i cross that headed to your address?

nawh,seriously. from reading your post i don't think you would want it being so far away.
i hate that because seems like you know a little bit about one.

i have at least 30 collets for it,and some other things called ???bars maybe?they fit in the groove on the bed maybe?
anyway,i found a place where you can get alot of these tools.
ever heard of hudson automatic?

for someone making small parts one after the other this thing would probably pay for itself in a year maybe?

looking around though i may be better off selling the tools and scrapping the lathe i guess.

those darn tools sell for 60.00 or more a piece.
i have over 1800.00 worth tools if i had to buy em.

i am glad i read this cause i didn't realize they were worth that much.
would be in my best interest to just sell the tools you know.

anybody need any tools???:)
jd

Doc Nickel
09-17-2009, 07:49 PM
anybody need any tools?

-Quick tips:

First, people won't pay new price for used tooling. If they're $60 each new, given the obscurity, figure they might be worth, tops, $20 or so each used. If, that is, you can find a buyer.

Second, keep in mind that selling the tooling alone makes the machine itself essentially worthless. In other words, what you have is worth far more all together than it would be if separated.

As I said above, it's an obscure little machine, and as cool as it is, is of pretty limited use. I make my living doing short-run parts out of my shop, and I'd be hard-pressed to justify buying it. The lathe, alone, especially if there's a problem with the obscure motor, isn't worth much at all.

On the other hand, the lathe, with collets, tool posts and turret tooling, is worth considerably more. Even with a motor problem- it's easier to swap out a small motor than it is to find- or make!- rare and obscure collets.

Doc.

Doc Nickel
09-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Hey Frank: About what do you figure that lathe weighs, altogether? It looks pretty dinky, and the cabinet looks like mostly sheet, so a couple of small castings, a sheet box and a motor? Maybe what, 600 lb?

Doc.

Doc Nickel
09-17-2009, 08:13 PM
The lathe, alone, especially if there's a problem with the obscure motor, isn't worth much at all.

-Not to quote myself, but think of a standard lathe- without a chuck of some kind, or a set of centers, or a faceplate, or a collet nose, what good is it? If you have no way to hold your workpiece, the biggest, fanciest, most accurate lathe in the world is worthless.

Now, it's not uncommon to sell a more conventional lathe without some of its tooling. But that's because tooling for those lathes is common, easy to find, and typically fairly inexpensive. My Logan has 2-1/4"-8 threads, and my Sheldon has an L-00 spindle; If necessary, I could find almost any chuck or faceplate on eBay within days.

The Rambold uses a hard-to-find collet, and a probably-even-harder-to-find chuck. While those parts are themselves valuable, the lathe, without them, is worth considerably less.

Doc.

jdracing
09-17-2009, 08:56 PM
:) ok,since everyone sees what i already thought was the best way to go about this.
i think a grand would be a fair price for everything included.(if it were 4 sale:) )
if anyone is serious about buying my little toy i can send you the information of the last owner.
since he knows way more about it than i do.
i have only seen it used at his shop the day i bought it.
i have not actually fired it up and used it for anything since i have owned it.

doc,i appreciate your opinion,but i don't think it will be going to alaska,but it can if someone from alaska wants to come get it.

i will try to get some pictures of the tools and what ever else is there.
i am gonna do that now.

if anyone is interested they can contact me at
msjdracing@rtmc.net

i already have a couple of serious takers(if it were 4 sale:D ),just all depends on the shipping to there area.
never know doc,maybe you might drive your little range rover down here and pick it up?
i don't think it weighs as much as 600lbs,but i may be wrong.
would there be any weight listed in the manuals?
if so,i have all the manuals for it.

ATTN:TONY GRIFFITH
does anyone know how to get in touch with the above named collector?

thank you all for the info,especially you machine doctor.
you are the man,man...:D
jd

jdracing
09-17-2009, 09:10 PM
frank,i am not trying to take over your thread.
i am gonna start a new post.
just wanted those interested to know i have a few pictures.
that is if they come thru.
i will start a new post and delete these if you want me to.
just let me know frank if you need me to delete this stuff.
no problem.
thanks for the post,it got me over here.
i wish i had the money and the smarts to use this thing.
but i have just about sold all my toys that i bought this thing to modify.
slotcars were my hobby,but i am having to sell my 35 year collection because of the economy.
jd
here we go.......

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i92/JDRacing/rambold203.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i92/JDRacing/rambold201.jpg

Frank Ford
09-17-2009, 09:14 PM
For what it's worth, I think the machine weighs in at around 300 lbs. It's a good stout stand, but the machine itself is pretty small.

Mine came with about 30 collets, too, but all metric (I think) and unlabeled. I made a project of it and whipped up a couple dozen collet blanks so I could bore my own as needed. I even did three hex collets for making decorative banjo nuts:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/RamboldCollet/ramboldcollet19.jpg

Same with the chuck - it wasn't terribly difficult to make a fitting back plate. While I was at it, I converted a cheap Chinese 3-jaw to "set-true" configuration, and it works like a chump. No, wait - I'm the one who works like a chump - it works like a champ.

Here are those projects:

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/RamboldCollet/ramboldcollet.html

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/AdjChuck/adjchuck.html

jdracing
09-18-2009, 05:16 AM
frank,where can i go to see some of the project you have made with your lathe?
jd

jdracing
09-18-2009, 05:24 AM
frank,where can i go to see some of the project you have made with your lathe?
jd
i had seen the 2 above but had no idea they would go to your site.
i thought were possibly another you tube,but man was i wrong.
i see what a person in the know can do with one of these machines.
i also see that i am possibly getting rid of something that will last for decades to come.
someone is gonna get a prized piece of machinery if i don't change my mind.
thanks for all the great info frank,
jd