View Full Version : OT: Repair or replace my $#@!box car?

02-27-2009, 03:05 PM
I have a 1998 Ford Escort I call the Entrepreneurmobile, and it comes with a great feature called "no payments." Unfortunately, the inspection bill this year is looking to be north of $1000 to make it legal:

- Rusted oil pan needs replacing (est. 450)
- Tie rods need replacing (est. 300)
- Body pan rusted, needs to have some new panels welded in (est 350)

Given the usual @#$!, I am guessing it will be 1100-1200 before the dust settles. This car has outlived expectations, the engine runs fine, and I only put 5000 or so miles on it a year since I live in a large city.

If I knew that $1000 would get me another year out of it, I'd do it. Faced the choice 2 years ago, and got 2 years with no major bills out of it, don't know that I'll get that lucky again.

I don't want to take on payments right now (and being a business owner no one wants to lend me money anyway) and the most cash I could spare would probably be $5k or so. At that price I'm worried that I'll just be buying someone else's problem, which leaves me back where I started.

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 03:07 PM
Can you raid a junk-yard for the oil-pan at least? A junk'd oil-pan might only set you back about $50.

Do as much as you can yourself and/or have car-savvy people help you.

02-27-2009, 03:15 PM
At this point the car doesn't owe you a cent. Start putting some dough in it and that can change real fast. I'd probably junk it. You might want to check the rear strut towers on it. My mom had a '95 that was otherwise in very nice condition that rusted out in that area. You might also seek out a more slack inspection station. ;)

02-27-2009, 03:25 PM
Yeah, if you can't do most of that work, yourself, you're probably on the wrong website!

How is it that you can only get 10 years out of a vehicle driving it 5000 miles a year? It should last forever, under those conditions!

It's time to buy a car, and $5000 can get you a pretty decent vehicle.

02-27-2009, 03:33 PM
Holy $@!T man....if you spend a little time down here you can find the whole car for that,most times they still run (term "run" applies loosely here) but still,the parts are there,we dont have much probs with rust here either.Good many salvage yards around the area too....they can prob ship most anywhere.Try and google auto salvage in the Athens or Gainseville Georgia area.

02-27-2009, 03:34 PM
Yeah, if you can't do most of that work, yourself, you're probably on the wrong website!

How is it that you can only get 10 years out of a vehicle driving it 5000 miles a year? It should last forever, under those conditions!

I bought it 5 years ago for $2500 with about 75k miles on it. It's pretty much rust that's killing it.

As for DIY repair, I wish I could, but I live in the city, so there's no garage or even driveway I could work on it in. Also I don't know how to weld.

02-27-2009, 03:34 PM
If the oil pan ain't leakin', howzabout givin' it a good rub with a wire brush and spray it with rustoleum? Damm sight cheeper than $450.00!

Who in the heck is inspectin' your oil pan, anyway??


02-27-2009, 04:03 PM
Who in the heck is inspectin' your oil pan, anyway?

I wanted an oil change, and if that oil pan came off, there was a good chance it wasn't going back on :p

02-27-2009, 04:06 PM
Well I say fix it... you need a welder any way right ;)... a little mig will do it. And yes find a salvage yard and get the pan. No place to work I've seen people working of cars at the auto parts store. But I'm sure you have to have a friend with a hunk of dirt to work on. Big blue tarps make nice wind breaks. This smacks of a scheme to get older cars off the road and you into a new car to help save the Auto Companies. You know this car like I know my old jeep that I plan on repairing till the little four banger dies... it has 189795 on it. and still ticking strong... will have to weld on some floor this spring... still cheaper then a monthly.:eek:

Liger Zero
02-27-2009, 04:06 PM
Well Sansbury if it's that rusty check the junk-yards, you'll find a less rusty one at a fraction of the price of buying a new one.

02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
"I wanted an oil change, and if that oil pan came off, there was a good chance it wasn't going back on "

As I recall, even the lowly Escort has a drain plug on the oil pan. Why not use it?


02-27-2009, 04:13 PM
You do have to wonder if its that rusty, whether another one will be in better shape. They could have had a design issue with something holding salt water etc. Even then the pan would have to come off. My guess is the high estimate is due to the horrible amount of work involved to get a pan off a car where the engine and transaxle are shoehorned in there.

As for welding rusty stuff....good luck. If its a small spot with nice solid metal nearby, a patch could work, but that may not be the case on a car like that where they were famous for returning to iron oxide in a hurry. I "welded" up a rusty ATV muffler for a friend. It was like trying to weld a plastic bag shut. I kept waiting for the whole muffler to just burst into flames--like lighting a steel wool pad.:rolleyes: I had to braze shut some of my self-created weld holes...and even getting it hot enough to braze made for still more holes.


02-27-2009, 05:43 PM
The estimate for the oil pan is 250 for the part and 2.7x$80/hr for the labor. He said that the estimate is based on dealer parts since he knows he can get it from them and that would be worst-case pricing.

I think I will take it to another shop next week and have them do the inspection and see if they bitch about the same items or not. Where I live the meter maids will hit you every day for $40 with an expired inspection, but a rejected sticker is OK for 60 days, you're just not supposed to drive it normally. The business with the tie rods doesn't surprise me but the rest is starting to sound like a money pit. Since I need a rejection sticker anyway might as well see if I get some info in the process. This garage has been good to me before but maybe they need to pay some bills this month.

02-27-2009, 06:18 PM
You paid $500 a YEAR to drive this car and you are complaining ?

Find a used car from the South. Less rust that way. Used cars under $5,000.00 are plentiful. You just need to look is all.

Fix it or toss it ?? Rusted out already ? Toss it and get something else.


02-27-2009, 06:30 PM
My aunto used to come out here to kansas from New Jersey to visit and bought several cars over the years. They were always much cheaper and in much better shape than she could find on the coast. For example, I bought a '90 buick lesabre with only 90,000 miles, power windows, seats, locks, working a/c and needed nothing other than a new front bumper and tires and spent $500....and I wasn't even looking to buy it. I was at the auction to help a freind that wanted to buy a trailer. I walked away with a car that has had no problems since I bought it a year ago. Check out the websites and see what you find, even a plane ticket and some gas money for the trip home, and you'll be ahead of the game.

02-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Call the white house and ask for a new car or call the banks and see what repo's are availible.

Errol Groff
02-27-2009, 08:42 PM
Geez. My '97 Escort has 265,000 miles on it. What have I been doing wrong the past 11 years.

Speaking of last 11 years. The previous car was 11 years old and died with 262,000 miles and this one has more than that. The previous (Plymouth Horizon with the 1.6L engine) got 35 MPG and the Escort gets 32 to 35 MPG. The new cars being advertised are bragging that they get about the same.

In the past 22 years apparently NO progress has been made in MPG from what I can see.

Errol Groff

02-27-2009, 09:01 PM
Ask them what the labor will cost if you supply the parts.

Here is the pan from Ford,$150ish-


Probably get it cheaper still from a wrecker.

02-27-2009, 10:02 PM
You can fix the oil pan with some epoxy but you need to replace the tie rod ends and just what kind of city do you live in that makes you replace rusted body panels?:mad:

If the floor has rusted holes take a piece of sheet metal and screw it over the hole sealed with undercoat spray around it.

Where do you live anyway, a city called Hellforsaken in the state of Gotcha?

02-27-2009, 10:09 PM
In many years of fixing and driving cars, a rusty oil pan that leaks due to rust is something I've not heard of. It's possible, I guess, but not very common. After all, we are talking about the greasiest part on the car and it's generally warm and full of hot oil. Rust you say? That's really strange. I wonder if that's really the case. More likely, I would suspect a bad crankshaft seal if the symptom is a leak.

The rust is another issue. I wouldn't spend nickel on a car with rust, unless you're talking about a Bugatti or a Duesenberg. LOL

You list $1,100 in repairs. I have a 2000 Ford Escort that's in perfect condition with 80,000 miles. You could buy one exactly like it for $3,000 anywhere, even from a used car dealer.

By 2000, almost the last Escort, IIRC, they had worked out all of the bugs. Other than being a little small for my 6' frame, I intend to keep it until we can get rid of the present administration. LOL.

If I were you, I'd go car shopping. I don't know anyone who can't afford 3 grand for a car.

02-27-2009, 10:22 PM
You can fix the oil pan with some epoxy but you need to replace the tie rod ends and just what kind of city do you live in that makes you replace rusted body panels?:mad:

If the floor has rusted holes take a piece of sheet metal and screw it over the hole sealed with undercoat spray around it.

Where do you live anyway, a city called Hellforsaken in the state of Gotcha?


It's the underbody panels around the exhaust and fuel tank. Apparently the concern is that leaks could send fumes inside the vehicle. That's what the man says, anyway.

Boston isn't that bad as large-ish cities go. I'm in software so this is one of two premier places to be, and the other one (San Jose/Bay Area) makes this place look like a tax haven by comparison. I grew up in upstate NY and will head back to the sticks at some point, but being somewhat young and single not quite ready to throw in that towel just yet :cool:

02-27-2009, 10:30 PM
Surely it can be patched up with some sheet metal rather than new panels.

02-28-2009, 06:17 AM
Poxy and patches in the land of litigation?? You got any nearest and dearest that ride in the car Sansbury?? In the event of a "Bump" how strong is a patch or a plastic skin? There ain't no substitute for real metal panels,pity the cowboys don't realise this. Oh yea, you don't REALLY need insurance if you don't have an accident either. DOH.

Regards Ian.

Your Old Dog
02-28-2009, 06:36 AM
I have the same exact car. We have decided to keep ours until the wheels fall off. Better $1200 bill once a year then $3600+ per year in payments.

You didn't mention the tranny. We had to put one in two years ago (around the 90,000 mile mark) for something like 2K$. Ours still gets 35mpg and we live in the country so it stays. Putting 3-400 per month into car payments would really eat into my toy money :D I am considering some kind of disguise so the towns folk don't recognize me.

Norman Atkinson
02-28-2009, 07:58 AM

Hooray, I actually wrote a reply and thought that I'd come in for criticism.

OK, I've got double distinctions in Motor Vehicle Restoration and given the right flux could weld the tail back onto a mule. We have read what can only be described as arrant rusty rubbish from- well, we are not so sure!

Several years ago, the Brits brought out a video called Car Bodywork Repair by Welding and it was under the auspices of the Welding Institute.

The car under repair using the Mig/Mag welding techniques was--- a Ford Escort. The Mig welder was only a cheap sh1te affair but the repairs were safe.

This is dangerous stuff being described as Ian rightly remarks.

This whole posting should locked- and its originator locked up with it.

My regards to the Rest of the Lesser Lunacy


02-28-2009, 09:29 AM
In the first place a rusted out floor is no big deal and is not going to cause an accident that would have liability for anyone.

The only thing is exhaust gasses getting inside the car as sansbury implied and a sheet metal patch screwed in place with sealer around it will work. It's done that way everyday.

Next problem, the oil pan. He said it's rusty and we assume it's leaking. If the rust area is not leaking then paint it. If it is leaking and can't be patched by epoxy or weld then replace it from a junk yard. You don't need a new one.

Next the tie rod ends. Replace them period as that is the one thing that could cause an accident and liability for someone. Namely the owner of the car.

Some posts are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He's just trying to make a piece of **** car last a little longer, not restore it to show room stock.

02-28-2009, 10:03 AM
What the hell are they making cars out of over there that bits cost so much? Tie rods I guess are track rod ends, can be changed in very little time and cost about £10 a side for pattern parts over here. Oil-pan (we call it a sump), well I've only ever seen one rusted-through in 25 yrs and it was about 25 yrs old not 10. A used sump here would cost perhaps £20, change it in a couple of hours tops.

Rust in the floorpan is another matter. On many modern cars the floorpan is a structural part. You can get replacement pans for many cars over here, just make sure they are welded-in properly. That is where most of your work is IMO.

Finally $3000 for a '98 high-miles beater?

Norman Atkinson
02-28-2009, 10:03 AM
I have been driving since- well, my first car was a 1935 Morris Eight.
Currently, I am driving 2 Mercedes, a BMW Mini Cooper and in Spain a Hyundai Getz. I drove professionally and have recognisable qualifications in motor vehicle restoration and welding.
I am NOT a Johnny Come Lately nor am I making a mountain out of a molehill.

Quite frankly, had anyone followed the course of motor vehicle construction it would be immediately apparent that the Escort body is a monocoque construction and relies for its strength and rigidity- and SAFETY on a complete 'safety cage' of which the floor panels are important parts.

What is being talked about is a shell which does NOT have the same safety features built in as modern cars nor has it the newer steels on which today's cars and a responsible public demand.

Importantly, I cannot believe that the US administration condones this matter.


John Stevenson
02-28-2009, 10:07 AM

Currently, I am driving 2 Mercedes, a BMW Mini Cooper and in Spain a Hyundai Getz.


Bloody hell you must have long legs !!!!


02-28-2009, 10:17 AM
'98 ford escort over here with twelve months mot and less than 80,000 miles is worth about £500 at most....yours with faults would be worth scrap value.

your oil leak is most likely, rear crankshaft oil seal.

only bad thing about them is the rear drum brakes ...nuts that hold them on and the bearings, are special multi-caged nuts ...they have to be replaced each time....or risk removing drum from the rear and snap the bolts.

all the best.markj

Norman Atkinson
02-28-2009, 10:57 AM
Just think, Mark, this chewing gum engineer could take his wandering wonder to Spain and get 300 Euros for it.

( See my other posting)

So, Sir John, we have Mickey Mouse contributor but you have a 'Donald'
All together now -- ARGHHHHH!

from Don Quixote- with the long legs

02-28-2009, 11:40 AM
I remember when playing with "Beetles" that body panels came from two sources, the cheap ones that came from Brazil and the propper ones from Europe, this also applied to "Soft" steering and suspension products. A rusted out floor might not cause an accident, but as has been pointed out, seriously compromises the structural integrity of the shell. You obviously care less for your loved ones than I do for mine.

Regards Ian.

02-28-2009, 12:34 PM
Norman, the only difference with screwing the panel in or welding it is cost. Your not going to affect the structual integrity by either method. If the rest of the monocoque structure is rusted out then replacing part of the floor is useless. We have to assume the rest of the car is fairly solid.

There is no difference using a piece of metal to cover a hole than to use a stamped piece to cover it. As well, there will be no structural gain by either method.

circlip, if the frame rails are solid the hole in the floor is a minor problem. A monocoque structure depends on the floor pan, the frame rails and the upper body panels for strength. A hole in the floor doesn't condem the cars integrity. If you knew how many monocoque cars are on the road with patches on the floor boards you probably would not leave your home with your and Normans line of thought.

Most people live in a real world and others have so much money at their disposal they can keep their cars in show room condition for ever. It's a beater car and not a collector item. Just patch it up and drive it.

Norman Atkinson
02-28-2009, 01:04 PM
I've had a look around the little asylum here. Well, it was!It is a perfectly normal piece of working class property now.

Every house has at least one car or more. Each car is less than 10 years old- apart from my SLK. Outside on the roads of Britain there are few cars over 10 years of age. The only ones generally are 'classics'

I spend a considerable time in France and Germany and Austria. The road sweepers have Mercs and Audis! In Spain, as I repeat, the Government gives good money away for scrap crap.

And a little word. Mercedes guarantee car bodies for 30 years.

There is an old Latin Motto- Caveat Emptor.

And please- I might be a poor, penniless old man in 'retrait' and hasn't worked for 25 years but I do know how to put a body panel in correctly.

We used to rip new works Nissans apart with air saws and invisibly mend them.
Teaching people how to suck eggs was another course.


02-28-2009, 01:09 PM
Carld...wouldn't go down too well in the UK

rules say ...

Any corrosion within 30 cms of a structural point (seatbelt mountings fall into this category) is an automatic failure of mot ........so you cant glue or screw, to repair the damage, it has to be continuously seem welded with plate of same gauge or thicker .

even a hole in the middle of the floor can be less than 30cms away from a seat belt mounting point in a car like an escort.

so that rules out all botches ....

the only holes you can patch with rivets and filler/bondo, are holes in the doors ..wings ,boot and bonnet.

that's fenders..trunks..and hoods to you guys.

all the best.markj

Norman Atkinson
02-28-2009, 01:34 PM
My thanks for bringing current UK Regulations into the discussion.

As a bit of Male Chauvinism, my wife and my daughter can both weld and cast metal.

Well now- turned out nice again?


John Stevenson
02-28-2009, 03:01 PM
In support of mark and more on the UK regs.

My Donald, a Peugeot 3.2 tonne van, what you would call a panel van, went in for it's yearly MoT test [ official Ministry of Transport test , all vehicles under 3.5 tonnes have to have a yearly test after 3 years from new. All vehicles over 3.5 tonnes have to have a yearly test regardless of age. ] and failed on welding.

It has some corrosion on what we call the inner sills where the side loading door is situated.
It's not a structural part at all as it has a very substantial chassis but because it's within 12" of the chassis it failed.

Ironically if it had been a pickup these inner sills would not exist and it would have passed.


02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Thank God sansbury's car is in the Boston area of the USA. Our rules don't seem to be as restrictive here and we can cobble it up as desired.

I always knew there was a reason I wouldn't want to live in England other than the excesive taxes and gun laws.

There is a fine line of whether to cobble or not. As you said, if it affects the seatbelt or other safety system it would not be a good idea to cobble.

It may be that most or all of the 10 year or older cars on the USA highways would never be allowed in England. I would venture that it would blow your mind to see some of the vehicles that run on our highways. The jacked up pickups that are sometimes 3' or more from the ground to the running board is one that comes to mind not to mention the rusted out cars and trucks I see everyday.

02-28-2009, 04:17 PM
they have gone nuts here in the north wales uk.

lots of truck drivers scared ****less about coming here.

3/4 of trucks that are stopped for a check and condemed were foreign vehicals.

so they are bringing in new laws to make some money out of them !

local wales paper says ..

On-the-spot fines for unsafe North Wales lorries

Feb 28 2009 (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2009/02/28/)
FOREIGN lorry drivers will be forced to carry cash to pay on-the-spot fines for flouting traffic laws or face having their vehicles immobilised, the Daily Post can reveal.
In a tough crackdown on overseas truckers whose cabs fail to meet UK safety regulations the government is bringing in £200 on-the-spot fines from April 1.
European haulage firms will be warned that their workers must have enough money on them to cover the cost or hold a company credit so the penalty can be paid immediately.
Those that fail to come up with the funds will have their lorry blocked until they stump up the cash.
Transport minister Lord Adonis revealed the change in the law to Lord Roberts of Llandudno, who uncovered figures last month that showed three quarters of all lorries who failed safety spot checks at Holyhead were from outside the United Kingdom.
Lord Adonis said: "To tackle high levels of non-compliance we intend shortly to introduce new provisions under the Road Safety Act 2006 which will enable VOSA (Vehicle and Operator Services Agency) and the police to require a financial penalty deposit from any non-UK driver who fails to comply with GB road traffic law.
"These provisions will enable police officers and VOSA examiners to issue fixed penalties to non-UK-resident offenders and immobilise vehicles in any case where a driver or vehicle has been prohibited from continuing a journey or in any case where a driver declines to pay the requested deposit."
The government is also handing an extra £24 million to VOSA over three years to help it to boost enforcement.
A breakdown showing which country vehicles arriving or departing from Holyhead port were registered at revealed more than half of those that did not meet the required standard were from the Republic of Ireland.
UK vehicles accounted for a quarter of those found to be defective while Polish lorries totalled 4%.
Lord Adonis insisted VOSA routinely reports all breaches of road-safety law by foreign-registered vehicles to the relevant authorities in their country for follow-up action.
He also revealed that the organisation has an arrangement with the Irish authorities for reciprocal visits by enforcement staff to share ideas on improving compliance and had seconded a senior member of staff to the Irish Road Safety Authority to tackle the problem.
Lord Roberts said: "We still donít know what guidance is being given to drivers from outside the UK about our traffic laws.
"But this is good news, it is progress. We now must monitor the situation to see if these measures do anything to dramatically reduce the huge number of vehicles found to be fault at Dalar Hir."

02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
The USA is having a similar problem with Mexican trucks. Since Bush forced the DOT to allow Mexican trucks into the USA for long haul we have had to deal with defective trucks and drivers without log books. I haven't heard a lot about it lately so I don't know if the DOT finally gave up or they are still inspecting the Mexican trucks. Bush was in bed with the Mexican president but I don't think Obama will go along as easily. We'll see.

03-01-2009, 06:13 AM
Didn't realise that the jaundiced picture that we see over here of the "Wrecks" on your roads, depicted in films and television series was a factuallity, thought it was just a "set up".

The screw and patch saga? Yes, about thirty years ago, I had a Beetle with a "Screwed and sealed" patch in one of the wheel arches that caused the car to fail its test. The model of the car was the series with torsion bar suspension, and anyone with a working knowledge of VW's most famous model will tell you that the structural integrity of that lump was in the chassis pan,and you could unbolt and remove the bodyshell and STILL drive it safely. Oh no,the tosser that failed it qualified his desicion by telling me he had worked in a VW main agency. The "Mechanics" of the patch, hole in vertical REAR face of arch 1" diameter, Patch 5" square, "Damaged" area cleaned, Phosphated, undersealed, patch mechanically fastened on, surface primed, painted and undersealed.

Ford Escort?? Had a Diesel one for 9 years, had 70,000 on the dial when I bought it, 150,000 when I sold it due to ------ body rust. Its predecessor was also in my possesion for 8 years, put that one in P/E for the Escort, body rot was that ones demise as well.

New car?? Bought our FIRST and only one 2 years ago, it's a bl**dy CAR, NOT a penile extension, it's a tool to do a job, ya want to playout onthe streets? Owning a car costs money, if you're not prepared to accept that simple fact, leave it to the bus andsubway companies.

Regards Ian.

John Stevenson
03-01-2009, 06:36 AM
The USA is having a similar problem with Mexican trucks. Since Bush forced the DOT to allow Mexican trucks into the USA for long haul we have had to deal with defective trucks and drivers without log books.
That's one loophole that's been closed here although it was a back door method that got overlooked by the general public.

Potted history, we have various cut off limits here for vehicles.
Anything under 3 tonnes GVW is classed private / light goods and covers all cars and vans.
Over 3 tonnes up to 7.5 tonnes comes under Class 7 or if it's a lorry derived vehicle it's a LGV [ Large Goods Vehicle which used to be known as HGV, heavy goods vehicle ]
These can be driven by the public on normal car licences.

Over 7.5 tonnes it's LGV which you need training and a license for, two types, rigid axle vehicles up to 30 tonnes and articulated vehicles up to 44 tonnes.

Now there was a move a while ago to move the lorry derived vehicles up above 7.5 tonnes so the public couldn't drive them, the consensus being that as they were basically small lorries the public had no training on them.
Hire firms rejected this and won the day as many are hired out to car licence people for house moving and even small business use them.

Now the back door method was that in 2007 it was made law that all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GTW [ Gross TRAIN Weight ] and that could include a land rover with large trailer although the land rover is below the weight had to have the new electronic tachographs fitted.
These require a drivers card like a credit card to operate and store all times and journeys on the chip.

So you decide to move house and roll up to your local hire company and hire a 7.5 tonner for the weekend.

"I would like to hire a large van for moving house this weekend "

"Do you have a drivers cards Sir "

"Wot? "

"A drivers card sir, as without one we cannot hire you a vehicle"

"Didn't know I had to have one"

"Yes sir since January 2008 you need a card"

"Can I get one off you ?"

"No sir you have to apply to Swansea for one, they cost £38 and you need a photograph and a witnessed form, then they take about 3 weeks to process"

"But I'm moving house this weekend !!"

"Sorry sir, that's the law"

"How about I give you £40 and we over look it this time ?

"Sorry sir but without the correct card in the tacho the vehicle won't start and if you remove it the vehicle stops"

That scenerio above has scotched many people who have no idea the law has changed.
The cards are good for 5 years and then it's another £38 or whatever it is at the time.


03-01-2009, 08:23 AM
Plymouth Horizon that drove me nuts since the engine was a VW (metric bolts naturally) but the add-ons - alternator, etc - & rest of the car were mainly fractional inch. Never had the right wrench in hand.

Anyway, it was a junker, used to haul junk - my wife's definition - of roadside scrounged treasures. I felt pretty good; I had saved the city some money on garbage pick-up.

Well, the day for auto inspection arrived. Had a couple of soft spots in the floor under the driver's feet. Could not convince them that I was going to install Fred Flintstone brakes. Fixed that up with sheet metal, screws and caulk. Stuff holds at least as well as epoxy, imo, and it is flexible.

The real tick-off tho was the ends on the bumper. Originally there were rubber/plastic caps to cover the ends and generally blend it into the body. Seems without them it would be a real danger to anyone who was hit by my car - dunno why they fixated on the bumper and conveniently forgot about the effect of the total mass of the car - but that's bureaucracy, I guess.
Cost of 4 - one per corner - new would be more than the worth of the car. Used ones were impossible to find; the retaining bolts on them would rust out and the hunk of stuff would end up decorating a ditch.
Necessity being the mother of invention I scrounged a tire, cut some segments from it and bolted them on. Passed inspection. Best was I had a custom car that I could customize further simply by changing the tire brand. Got great mileage too!

03-01-2009, 08:50 AM
plymouth horizon ...
that would be Chrysler Sunbeam in the uk ..rear wheel drive based on the plymouth cricket ..hillman avenger

we all remember this advert



hmmm or was it the chrysler peugeot talbot horizon ......french made front wheel drive


all the best.markj

03-01-2009, 10:19 AM
Just to clear the air I am not in favor of patching something in a dangerous manor. If your trying to keep the old flivver running for a while and the repair is safe go for it.

Yes, there are some problem vehicles on the road here but they don't seem to be crashing everywhere causing harm and mayhem. They do however sometimes look a little scruffy to say the least. The commercial vehicles are watched a lot closer than the average private owner car or truck.

03-01-2009, 10:26 AM
get a yares egg about 14,000 new that is there 3 door hachback they last. Brett

Your Old Dog
03-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Had I seen that ad:


I would have bought 3 or 4 of those litte $hit boxes :D I'm a big fan of Petula Clark and it po'd me when she sold the rights of Happy Heart You Hear to Andy Williams. She could hold my interest singing the phone book :D

Anybody driven the new Beemer 6 series convertible yet? I have! What a ride. 0 to 60 long before you can stop wetting your pants.


Norman Atkinson
03-01-2009, 02:57 PM
This should shake you but Pet Clark is 18 months younger than me!

I recall her first radio thing when she sang to her uncle in the Western Desert.
The USA was 'not engaged'- and there you have an even more sobering thought.

The 6 Series Beemer? But all 'Kraut Mobiles' are governed down to about 146 mph. There are plenty of models which are no slouches and
I'd rather have a MiniCooper on a twisting road. On an Autobahn, I'd not be impressed with the big Beemer



Your Old Dog
03-01-2009, 07:32 PM
So what. Can you fix me up with her? :D

I've never walked by a TV set while she was on it. I think she had a great voice and great persona.

03-02-2009, 05:38 AM
Just got the acronym YOD, Petula Exudes Real Sexiness On North America. Ya can't have her, she's British even though she did commit the worst cardinal sin of going to live over the channel.

Regards Ian.