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John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 05:03 AM
I'd like to come up with a different design for a quill stop on this POS Bridgeport instead of winding that stupid graduated nut up and down 12,457 times every time [ approx ]

Anyone got any idea's, pic's etc before I commit a design to a lump of unobtainium ?

Thinking aloud here, why if these are toolroom machines working to very fine limits you are restricted to measuring quill travel with a 5" rule ?

.

dfw5914
03-04-2009, 05:15 AM
http://www.icai-online.com/home.php?cat=315

Practically standard on Bridgeports around here.

.RC.
03-04-2009, 05:46 AM
John you should sell the bridgport and get either a Ramboudi, Elliott, Tos, Ajax or Beaver turret mill

oldtiffie
03-04-2009, 05:49 AM
Nice accessory dfw5914.

For JohnS:
Have you had a close look at the quick release/engage on the better old-fashioned spring dividers/calipers that were two half-nuts with a taper which engaged a taper on one of legs and at the same time closed the nuts so that normal "fine" hand adjustment via the knurled "spinner" drove the leg motion in/out.

If I recall correctly my Moore and Wright sets had them, and probably Starrett as well - and so do the Chinese ones.

Like the ones posted by dfw5914, they are quick and effective.

John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 05:57 AM
John you should sell the bridgport and get either a Ramboudi, Elliott, Tos, Ajax or Beaver turret mill

I know but if you have seen where this is situated then it's not a two minute job to remove it and replace it.

When you move machines you always loose time 'just doing this while it's out ' and first off I'd have to move the big TOS lathe out and if i did this there is a weeks work in doing repairs on this alone.

I can't afford a week of dead time.

.

John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 06:00 AM
Yes I have seen that spring loaded one but how does this address the locking ring below ?

Is the spring load enough that you don't need the ring ?
At the moment i find that unless it's locked up snug it alters with cutting vibration.

dfw5914
03-04-2009, 06:41 AM
I've not noticed any drifting of the setting, but I do not do any heavy milling with the quill extended. Personally, the quill stop is typically only used when using the machine as a drill press (or "pillar drill (?)"), most frquently when using a self reversing tapping head.

Doc Nickel
03-04-2009, 07:04 AM
Thinking aloud here, why if these are toolroom machines working to very fine limits you are restricted to measuring quill travel with a 5" rule ?

-Because the quill is used for gross movement. The knee (and it's graduated dial) are used for fine movement.

Doc.

John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 07:17 AM
-Because the quill is used for gross movement. The knee (and it's graduated dial) are used for fine movement.

Doc.

How can you use the knee if the head is over at 30 degrees boring a valve seat out to microns?

.

Doc Nickel
03-04-2009, 08:12 AM
How can you use the knee if the head is over at 30 degrees boring a valve seat out to microns?

-You don't. The Bridgeport-style turret mill is a jack of all trades, but master of few. The quill was not intended to be used to precision depths- it was assumed the knee would provide the Z-axis accuracy.

No, as-designed, it can't (easily) do precise off-axis boring, but then, neither can it easily use large face mills, or gang tooling, or geared indexers for helical milling.

It can be made to do these things- and often has been- but it was never designed to be anything more than a general-purpose machine; good at some things, great at others, poor at a few.

Doc.

derekm
03-04-2009, 08:12 AM
I'd like to come up with a different design for a quill stop on this POS Bridgeport instead of winding that stupid graduated nut up and down 12,457 times every time [ approx ]

Anyone got any idea's, pic's etc before I commit a design to a lump of unobtainium ?

Thinking aloud here, why if these are toolroom machines working to very fine limits you are restricted to measuring quill travel with a 5" rule ?

.
I've got project to build a fine feed for my Omnimill, So the following could seen as presumptious having not worked on a bridgeport.
You could use the thread as rack for pinion and drive the pinion via a reduction box e.g. one of small Motorvario worm drives you have lying around.

My solution for the omnimill is extending the shaft that elevates the quill by removing the quill return spring cover and using a MotoVario worm drive. A simple co-axial friction clutch engages the fine feed.

Circlip
03-04-2009, 08:33 AM
Not intended for precision boring? Oh cr4p, I wish someone had told me that when I BORED out the old valve guides on my Veller forty odd years ago.

Regards Ian.

wierdscience
03-04-2009, 08:44 AM
Quill DRO,been around for decades and they work very well.The Chinese versions are down to $35 or less here-

http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/products/products.cfm?categoryID=312

George Bulliss
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
Yes I have seen that spring loaded one but how does this address the locking ring below ?

Is the spring load enough that you don't need the ring ?
At the moment i find that unless it's locked up snug it alters with cutting vibration.


When I use a spring loaded stop, I always back it up with the locking ring. The holding power of the spring loaded stop alone is not enough. I usually leave the locking ring near the bottom and simply fill in the space between the two stops with a couple of step blocks from the clamp set or some old, beater gage blocks. I have also seen guys make a set of assorted length spacers out of pieces of pipe that have been faced and then split down one side with an endmill.

George

Your Old Dog
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
Is it possible to cough up an adjustable stop rod like used for depth control on many wood routers? I don't know the machine so don't know if it's possible or practical.

The wood plunge routers frequently have a step wheel under the rod in 1/4" steps. In your case they could be a circle with several threaded rods to you could jump quickly between preset depths. Hell, you'd be "da man" :D

I'll edit in a pic of what I"m talking about if I can find one. BTW, have you been to Wikipedia yet for an answer to your query!

edited to add: is it practical to set the existing nut at one depth and then use 1/4" rods of varying length to fine tune the depth? In other words, if you were at maximum depth on the stock, these rods could then be used for the other elevations on the stock by interrupting the depth adjustment nut with various size rods. (no reason the rod couldn't be adjustable either like a jack. You could then mic the rod at the bench and then insert it between the much revered POS Bridgeport Mills depth adjust nut and the rest it comes up against.)

mochinist
03-04-2009, 09:21 AM
I never liked the spring loaded nuts, I use these, just a bunch of 1.5"O.D. dia steel that I drilled out to 1"I.D. and cut them into 1" and 1/2" lengths, and cut out a chunk so they could slide around the screw

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/mochinist/IMG00029Medium.jpg

Uncle O
03-04-2009, 09:42 AM
I have that spring loaded nut on my mill out in the garage, it works great for me.
At work I have one of these that I use, it too works fine.
http://metalworking.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1802298

Also have used the modified pipes as shown by some of the other guys.
and made one that resembles a spring loaded clothes pin, which I saw on this board that one of you guys had made.

But that spring loaded nut hasn't failed me yet , nor has the part I posted a link too.

Your Old Dog
03-04-2009, 09:48 AM
Mochinist has one-up'd me :D

Bill Pace
03-04-2009, 10:12 AM
Yep, mochinist has the answer ---

This is what/how Lane does it too, and, I have now adopted it also. Make up 2-3-4 of em in sizes/lengths that suit your needs and pop one in when needed. Plain Jane like Mochinists, or a bit more fancy like mine and Lanes....

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/misc.jpg

lazlo
03-04-2009, 10:16 AM
John you should sell the bridgport and get either a Ramboudi, Elliott, Tos, Ajax or Beaver turret mill

John loves to hate his Bridgeport. :) The Beaver and Excello mills have the same quill depth gauge as the Bridgeport.

http://www.icai-online.com/image.php?type=C&id=315

I've got several of these "smart nuts" John -- send me your snail mail address, and I'll send you one, if you'll stop whinging :D

http://www.icai-online.com/image.php?type=C&id=315

JCHannum
03-04-2009, 10:55 AM
This is a quill stop I made a few years ago. The prototype and spring source are pictured above it. Material is aluminum.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1060543.jpg

Where does it say the Bridgeport is a toolroom machine?

mochinist
03-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Where does it say the Bridgeport is a toolroom machine?Define what a toolroom machine is:)

A.K. Boomer
03-04-2009, 11:35 AM
Ditto on the quill stop nuts, Its the first thing I did on the china hoe after hacking her out of her crate, I bought a high quality brand from enco (Morton) for 40 bucks --- I left the thin back up nut at the bottom but have never used it once --- There are tricks to using them where repetitive depth is an issue, Here's the pains that I went through --- whatever kind of stop your using Its always important to have the Quill stop horizontal threaded mount (the part thats threaded directly into the quill and on top and hits against your adjustable quill nut) "perfectly" machined and adjusted (tightened very tight but stopping perfectly flat so it contacts both right and left sides of the stop nut at the same time), I took mine off - machined its flats to my specs - put it back on with the appropriate thickness hardened washer to snug up very tight and stop perfectly so no side (right or left) "leads" the other -- and oh yeah - installed it with lock tight stud and bearing mount,
Now that your sure the deviance is out of your machine - lets move on to how to use the spring loaded quill stop nut properly --- Always Find the minimum quill depth of where you think you need to be for your repetitions - place your quick nut there - lock the quill lever down with resistance against it, I say minimum depth for the reason that you always want to use as little quill as possible to get the job done, Its just a standard of practice - it reduces chatter and machine flimsyness and also quill travel and "chip intake" and therefore wear - allow for tool changes when necessary etc. etc.
Now take up the necessary slack in the knee till your where you want to be for your depth, you will now have that same effect when you release your quill and use the quills lever to push all the way down, over and over and over, Remember your initial resistance? This effort is the only thing you need to "record" for consistent results.
My experience is Iv never done a job with enough repetitions to get it to change -- and the reason I bought one for my mill is because I use my friends and he has one on it, were talking hundreds of reps without deviation... I believe you can skip the spacers, If you buy a high quality unit that has a stiff load spring - You cant beat the adj. quill stop nuts...

Edit; two things, first -- after pressing the button and traveling all the way up it then is important to rotate the quick nut about a half turn , this is important to be absolutely positive that youve seated the threads!

The other thing is at first one wonders how much these units can "hold" pressure wise --- anotherwords what if I snugged it up a little too tight and used just a little more pressure on the quills lever to get to where I want and "strip/crash" there goes the work/tooling --- after all its nothing more than a spring loading some angled threads right?
Nope -- due to the buttons threads being in a crescent around the stud the holding force is compounded drastically, the results are that Iv tested mine (with nothing underneath) and took it only up to the point of where im comfortable of putting that kind of load on my quills rack and pinon gears --- I have no idea what would "give first" My quill lever - my quills gears - or my quick stop nut,,, dont ever intend to find out either.

lazlo
03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
This is a quill stop I made a few years ago. The prototype and spring source are pictured above it. Material is aluminum.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1060543.jpg

That's hilarious Jim -- that's how the "smart nut" works internally (a spring loaded split nut). :)

A.K. Boomer
03-04-2009, 12:42 PM
That's hilarious Jim -- that's how the "smart nut" works internally (a spring loaded split nut). :)


Uhhhmmm - yes and no, actually his unit is very weak and could be by-passed and cause a crash,
#1 --- look at the springs lack of leverage ratio - look where the springs windings are and then look at where they extend, this isnt half of the engineering problems when You consider #2

#2 The unit is on a pivot of sorts - the pressure is not only weak - it is non-uniform, in engineering terms it means that the side farthest away from the spring is not receiving the same load and is lesser, not only that - its the same side that expands at a greater ratio due to the pivot factor, this is where the "cloths line pin" will open first - once this happens it results in instant failure as the unit gets even weaker due to the thread angles no longer remaining on a like plane on all sides - in effect the cloths pins sheds off kinda like a tupperware lid:p
My friends got one of those too -- its not to be confused with the quick stop nut, his is appropriately made of plastic and is used merely for reference points.

JCHannum
03-04-2009, 12:50 PM
It would not work very well for some mouth breathing, knuckle dragging oaf who insisted in banging the downfeed against it every time.

On the other hand, for a machinist with a delicate touch and a little finesse, it would work just fine.

I leave it to you to decide which type you are before undertaking the manufacture of one.

gary hart
03-04-2009, 01:51 PM
Here is drawings for one that dosen't wiggle when locked in place and hanger for storing.
Gary
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Quillstop.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Quillstopon.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/ghart3/Quillstophanging.jpg

wierdscience
03-04-2009, 01:57 PM
Here is drawings for one that dosen't wiggle when locked in place and hanger for storing.
Gary


Gary,that's the best one yet.Might make one this afternoon.

Timleech
03-04-2009, 02:35 PM
Thinking aloud here, why if these are toolroom machines working to very fine limits you are restricted to measuring quill travel with a 5" rule ?

.

My old Town Woodhouse mill had the best quill feed arrangement I've seen, with pull down handles both sides of the head as well as a proper graduated micrometer handwheel feed. I can't remember the precise stop arrangements, probably no better than any other mill.
The Elliott arrangement is possibly worse than a Bridgeport, the one thing about it I don't like very much.

Tim

kvom
03-04-2009, 05:57 PM
WRT the "smart nut", I have been told that it was patented, and hence BP could not include that type on their mills while the patent was in force. One of the import mills (Chevalier) that I have used came with them standard.

BadDog
03-04-2009, 06:14 PM
I like Gary's solution, but you loose the fine adjust. I went through a few options didn't really like any until I got to the "Educated Nut" lazlo posted. Now THAT is what I wanted, and I'm very satisfied with it. Particularly nice of "peck drilling" with small carbide drills, or setting it to stop the drill JUST as it's breaking through on the back side.

John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 06:37 PM
John loves to hate his Bridgeport. :) The Beaver and Excello mills have the same quill depth gauge as the Bridgeport.

http://www.icai-online.com/image.php?type=C&id=315

I've got several of these "smart nuts" John -- send me your snail mail address, and I'll send you one, if you'll stop whinging :D

http://www.icai-online.com/image.php?type=C&id=315

So how do you press the damn button in when it's round the back.

Don't say keep it at the front or there would be no reason for the graduations all the way round ?

Not being pedantic but to me anything that is supost to be an improvement needs to work better than the original.

If you have to resort to tubes, winding the existing lock nut up ? or have a button release that can't do a full revolution isn't an improvement.

I often have the head tilted to pick valve guide axis's up and bore out worn seats. I have a Chinese DRO fitted but being able to work to a stop is better. The original stop works fine but it's a pain the move long distances.

Once the head is tilted the knee movement isn't relevant.

.

dfw5914
03-04-2009, 06:39 PM
When installed, the button does not protrude very far and the nut can easily be turned 360. It is most easily depressed when the button is parallel with the X axis, then you just give it the few turns needed for final adjustment. I have a Mitutoyo digital quill scale installed on my Bridgeport which makes it a bit less convenient to actuate the release button, but it still is a worthwhile improvement over the standard arrangement
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/pmhurco/QuillStop004a.jpg

Doc Nickel
03-04-2009, 06:40 PM
So how do you press the damn button in when it's round the back.

-You don't. Again, the button is gross movement: push, slide to the general area, release. Then turn like the original Bridgeport knob for fine adjustment.

Doc.

John Stevenson
03-04-2009, 06:51 PM
-You don't. Again, the button is gross movement: push, slide to the general area, release. Then turn like the original Bridgeport knob for fine adjustment.

Doc.

Aahh, OK part way there, so what locks it ?

dfw5914
03-04-2009, 07:07 PM
Aahh, OK part way there, so what locks it ?


It does not lock up solid like the standard jam nut arrangement, rather the spring pressure holds it in place. It took a while to get accustomed to the sort of spongy feel as the internal clearances stack up to stop the quill travel, but it does repeat right on.

pcarpenter
03-04-2009, 07:19 PM
What locks it? Why one of Jim Hannum's aluminum clothespins:D

Paul

lane
03-04-2009, 07:30 PM
I never liked the spring loaded nuts, I use these, just a bunch of 1.5"O.D. dia steel that I drilled out to 1"I.D. and cut them into 1" and 1/2" lengths, and cut out a chunk so they could slide around the screw

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/mochinist/IMG00029Medium.jpg

Yes that is what I use . Made 3inch 2 inch 1 inch and a 1/2 and a 1/4 I find they work great. have a set at work and a set at home .

BadDog
03-04-2009, 10:05 PM
Aahh, OK part way there, so what locks it ?
As said, it does not "lock". It is partially threaded inside, and the threads release when you push the button in. When you get it close to where you need it, release the button, and it forms a smooth disk as the button comes back to the surface as the threads re-engage. You can then spin it to your heart's desire while tracking the micrometer readings to give you what ever incremental "pecks" (or whatever) you need. The spring pressure on the threads is enough to keep it stationary even when experiencing heavy vibration from a face mill or such.

nheng
03-04-2009, 10:41 PM
John, How about changing the stop to the type of split nut used on old Starrett and other outside, inside calipers and dividers for quick adjusting. Don't have a picture handy but one nut was split so you could slide it then it entered a tapered piece to grip the adjusting screw.

Only problem is that on the caliper you have spring pressure to hold the split nut engaged. For the BPT, you'd have to create a captive "chamber" for the nut and spring. Den

lakeside53
03-04-2009, 10:47 PM
heck... all these explanations must be why is called an "EDUCATED" nut, or maybe they mean the buyer:D

I have them on 2 quills, and a standard nut on one. Drives me nutz to not have the Educated version.


I did see a very nice rotary stop attachment on ebay. Here's the link

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bridgeport-Multi-Stop-Turret_W0QQitemZ300297749019QQihZ020QQcategoryZ104 242QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


and I have the pictures so others can see it after one of you buys it.

A.K. Boomer
03-05-2009, 12:30 AM
It would not work very well for some mouth breathing, knuckle dragging oaf who insisted in banging the downfeed against it every time.

On the other hand, for a machinist with a delicate touch and a little finesse, it would work just fine.

I leave it to you to decide which type you are before undertaking the manufacture of one.


I never bang my downfeed --- ever, i just like a solid situation to rely on --- I like to butt up against the stop and feel solid resistance --- not have some hillbilly apparatus that flexes itself into position (or not) --- there's people who like things right thats all - and then there's hillbillies --- Ill let you decide which type you are, by the way -- dont get any chips in the massive flat areas that youv created or it will keep your close pin threads partially open;) (just another design flaw I took notice of -- want more? Iv got plenty)

John Stevenson
03-05-2009, 04:49 AM
So the consensus is get the quick nut and don't bother about locking it.

I'll keep an eye out on J&L to see when they have their offers at the moment the nut with delivery and tax works out to the equivalent of $60.00 [ probably only $9.99 in the States :mad: ]

I came up with a similar design last night, one piece [ well all the bits are when assembled ] and it locks with no tools. If I get a few spare minutes I may do one, I don't need the graduations as I have the Chinese quill DRO and use that anyway as I'm usually working in metric anyway.

I'll get it sketched up tonight and post it for everyone to pull to pieces :D

.

Bguns
03-05-2009, 05:44 AM
So the consensus is get the quick nut and don't bother about locking it.
I'll get it sketched up tonight and post it for everyone to pull to pieces :D

.

US, no way, we would never think of doing that :)

Still think a tired old Bridgy, is better than a Round Column Mill Drill :)

John Stevenson
03-05-2009, 06:11 AM
US, no way, we would never think of doing that :)

Still think a tired old Bridgy, is better than a Round Column Mill Drill :)

Hey I bought one of these when they first came out, spent a few days sorting problems out, put a 1200 Heidenhain DRO on a 700 machine :rolleyes: and was set to go.

Had to go this route due to space limitations.

Used if for making laser cutting machine lens blocks, mega money in these at the time as not many people could link the understanding of optics to real world machining.

.

Bguns
03-05-2009, 06:26 AM
Of course the 2 HP Mill Drill Paid for itself a couple times over...

Neighbor has it ... Needs even more Lathe work done for him now :)

Hot Rodding the Bridgy ... which at almost a year, is working Hard for its 1/2 HP keep..

It is so nice to crank Table down to change a Tool, instead of moving Head up and down on a Semi Round Column..

The little 9x32 Round Ram, takes up less space than the Mill Drill, with a Big Cabinet under it..

For my work its fine... The Cincy has a 10 x 54 and 50 taper when I need Mo Beef...

JCHannum
03-05-2009, 10:57 AM
Cool your jets AK. I posted the stop as an alternate for consideration. It is a neat little project that might be fun to pass some weekend afternoon with. It does work, and has the same benefits and drawbacks as the commercial versions that sell for about $20.00.

If it appeals to you, make one. If not, don't.

lane
03-05-2009, 09:51 PM
Heck John why buy what you can make in 15 minutes . Take a piece of 1 1/2 dia cold finish stock and drill and bore a .507- .510 hole through it. Part off about .825 long. Set up in mill vise to drill a close fitting .625 flat bottom cross hole about 1/16 less than braking through. Take a piece of .625 silver steel and polish to slip in cross hole face end and part off about 1.625 long. set in mill vise and drill and tap a 1/2 -20 thread hole about 1/16-3/32 from edge of tap to end of pin. While on center take a 1/2 inch end mill and back of toward the long end and plunge thru about .040 for thread on 1/2 -20 rod to slip off thread and for rod to slide thru. Assemble with stiff spring to suite . Their is your quick nut After assembly put assembly in lathe and turn the top of the push plug off a littlt above the 1 1/2 diameter collar. Their you be . I have made many of them for drill presses and such fast adjustment for saw and mill stops.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/quicknut003.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/quicknut004.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/quicknut001.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/quicknut002.jpg

John Stevenson
03-06-2009, 05:26 AM
Thanks for that Lane.
I have an idea for one and I'm going to get small Son to model it out for me in Solid Edge, hopefully tonight, so it's clearer how it works.

This one will be about the same size but also incorporate the locking ring, again quick release and lock in any position as there will be no button to hide round the back.

Hopefully later.

kvom
03-06-2009, 10:28 AM
I'm impressed that Lane can make that in 15 minutes ;-)

lane
03-06-2009, 08:04 PM
I'm impressed that Lane can make that in 15 minutes ;-)

How long should it take ?

John Stevenson
03-06-2009, 08:31 PM
16 minutes ?


OK here's what I have got, small Son is too busy sweeping dead aliens out of his computer that he shot last night so I have had to draw this in 2D.

Right image the setup the Bridgy has at the moment, one nut and a locking ring, both threaded 1/2 x 20.

Now replace the nut with a shallower 'nut' but has a clearance hole, attached to this by two pins / screws / rivets is a knurled locking ring again with clearance hole.

This locking ring is actually top hatted internally as is actually a cam ring. Inside this cam ring are two half nuts, a lot like bob weights in a dizzy, it is these that are threaded 1/2" x 20.

To operate you open the cam ring, springs, not shown, force the half nuts apart and the whole assembly can move freely up and down the quill rod.

When in position you turn the cm ring to engage the rod, fine tune to position then nip the cam ring to lock.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/quick%20nut.BMP

Two pics to show the section thru the cam ring.

Make sense ??

.

BadDog
03-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Neat application of the mechanism. And Lane's time estimate blows away my wildest dream of completing that job. And I expect that your's will take several times Lane's estimate. So I think I'll stick with my ~$25 Enco Nut. It does the job as well as anything I can dream up (or even follow designs for), and that's one less project I would otherwise never get around to...

JCHannum
03-06-2009, 08:38 PM
It makes sense, and is a piece of cake with CNC, but almost impossible with manual machines. Add some springs and appropriate hard surfacing for long life.

I figured out the bit about Dykem on yer willy the other night, but wotinhell is a dizzy?

BadDog
03-06-2009, 08:40 PM
Slang for old style automotive distributor, sometimes also applied to modern electronic distributors. Also note the ref to "bob-weights", which were what provided mechanical spark advance (pre-computer control) via centrifugal force acting on a cam.

JCHannum
03-06-2009, 08:44 PM
Figures. I should have known, I changed enough of them when fooling with advance curves. I thought I had Brit down pretty well.

lane
03-06-2009, 08:49 PM
I like that idea. Yes will take more than 15 minutes , but I would buy one . Their is your product to get rich John .Sell on E-Bay.
You could spit them out on your little CNC mill.

aboard_epsilon
03-06-2009, 10:37 PM
cnc ...no, you got to look into that ...
you're looking at the way john has drawn it ...makes it look difficult

the two central weights can come out of a solid lump that has been threaded...before being cut in half ...

it wont look like johns then ..but nuts/bob-weights ..will encircle almost all the threaded shaft when closed up

bit of work with an end mill should have your outside profile on the nuts..

outer "dizzy" inner .....this only has to have two smooth lumps on the inside to push the bob weights closed ....with the bob weights shaped right it should also open them up !!!!

so to make this .bore two holes that join like a figure eight

having said all this ..Ive no intentions to make one ...

as in all the time ive operated my Bridgeport ..ive not needed an accurate ..depth stop ...i use the knee always .

you can put Joe blocks on the depth stop then lock the nut

drilling at angles....i don't tilt the head ...i mount stuff on a tilting table ...and use the knee.

all the best.markj

Lurkerjo
03-07-2009, 07:40 AM
Have you ever seen the trick nut that you can slide along a threaded rod but
it will still act as a proper nut?
A clearance hole is drilled at a slight angle through a thicker nut leaving part
threads on opposite sides top and bottom. We used to use these on flanges that needed to be frequently removed. Simply slide the "nut" down the threaded stud, when it is in contact with the flange it straightens up and the partial threads engage.
A pair of these could be used on the BP, when lightly snugged together they could be rotated for final adjustment and then tightened more firmly to lock.

Lew Hartswick
03-07-2009, 10:55 AM
Have you ever seen the trick nut that you can slide along a threaded rod but
it will still act as a proper nut?
A clearance hole is drilled at a slight angle through a thicker nut leaving part
threads on opposite sides top and bottom. We used to use these on flanges that needed to be frequently removed. Simply slide the "nut" down the threaded stud, when it is in contact with the flange it straightens up and the partial threads engage.
A pair of these could be used on the BP, when lightly snugged together they could be rotated for final adjustment and then tightened more firmly to lock.
I was wondering about that device. I've seen them used on something, not sure where.
Haven't had a chance to check out how well they would hold and
only one would probably not be sufficiently stable but two in a
"lockup" should do. The problem I suspect will be that to work well
they would have to to be both about a 1/2" thick for a 1/2-20
thread and hence take up a lot of room on the post.
...lew...

madman
03-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Ugh how bout when having to move that nut you just hit it at a angle with youre air hose. I used to do this at a shop I worked at. it would annoy my boss but it was really fast and effortless way of smoking that nut up and down on the mills.

A.K. Boomer
03-07-2009, 11:49 AM
I'll get it sketched up tonight and post it for everyone to pull to pieces :D

.


You said it not me:p for what its worth - a list of pro's and con's for others to pick apart add or subtract, My apologies to JChannum as I was inconsiderate with the home built unit he made that works good for him and will use more tact this time:o

Pro's

#1; SJS's created a unit with a positive lock mechanism, once properly seated its going nowhere till parts break on either the unit or the quill drive, since a quill stops job is to stop the quill I consider this a good thing.

#2; Having two sides of thread engagements not only increases holding capabilities -- if machined properly with good materials it keeps the unit from going through an internal "rocking" under pressure, this design is actually superior in this way to the typical spring loaded button type in which there is only one threaded side (JCHannum's device also had this advantage)

#3; SJS's noted that he did not want to "fumble" with a button that was facing into the mill head - He addressed this problem as the units release/engagement is 360 degree's identical.

#4; The unit is "chip friendly" --- renegade milling chips will have a tough time finding there way into the internal holding mechanism's.


#5; Although complex (for a quill stop) This unit has good appeal - it almost makes me wish I never bought my button style just so I could build one:p Its got that "Bond --- James Bond" type of coolness to it, You might half expect to see one of these units accidentally fall out of the trunk of some tricked out austin martin after the oil slick lever was pulled, There is no doubt that if done up right that this unit is highly marketable , Good duty SJ.



Con's

#1; As previously stated in #5 the unit is complex (for a quill stop) As JC pointed out CNC equipment might be mandatory for SJ's unit although the unit could be re-designed to avoid this, Never the less --- It has more pieces than typical and they are not "standard issue" stuff, they will require more procedures.

#2; Although SJ addressed the "button in the back" issue he created another in the process as this unit requires two hands to operate -- No big whoop? You be the judge.

#3; There is the added concern about how this mechanism will function with the typical quill mount DRO rail off to the side of it --- I know from experience with my friends Mitutoyo on his sharp that even the button unit that normally takes one hand can be a little difficult (even trying to use two) to get to because you basically are now restricted to about 90 degree's instead of 180 --- Im trying to imagine what it would be like trying to get both mitts in there to try and rotate the skinny base of the unit one way and have the other hand rotate or hold in the opposite direction -- ohhh yeah -- did I mention all while trying to slide it up or down while your doing this?
Im not liking that image --- but im not giving it a thumbs down, being a mechanic I know that sometimes we are surprised at what motions are hands can achieve -- but I have to add "or not" .

#4; Im not fully convinced that messing with rotational forces to engage/disengage a unit that is also designed to be rotated for fine tuning its depth is a good idea --- butter thumbs rotating the wrong piece could result in partial engagement which in turn could prove to be a total FUQE, also -- even trying to rotate the proper piece is reliant on the threaded pieces with more drag in one direction than the other therefore the spring pressure in the mechanism is crucial and should always overide this --- yet - the more spring pressure the more drag on the pieces esp. in the self wedging direction -- at any rate -- this is a Build and see concern -- and although alignment marks on both pieces could be incorporated into the outer surfaces so that one could tell that the unit is indeed engaged at a glance this still needs to be proven that your not having to "mess with it" after a mild adjustment rotation as that would suck.
This situation could also be addressed by not having any drag what-so-ever on the threaded pieces after full engagement - this can be achieved by the final cam lock not contacting under pressure the threaded units yet still engaging them to max thread depth --- while this will address the issue it will create another ,,, now the unit is left to "wander" Now it really is just a "loose nut" sitting out there for either vibration to work down or quill reps to disturb...

BadDog
03-07-2009, 02:19 PM
I was wondering about that device. I've seen them used on something, not sure where.
...lew...
I've seen them mostly on commercial setup machine pallets and inspection fixtures. In fact, I liberated a few of them from said items that were going into the scrap bin. I've got some with 1/2-13 thread and heads about 1.25 diameter with big finger grooves kinda like a sprinkler knob. Great for hold down clamps on light duty milling setups, but only where you have a fixture of sorts to restrain horizontal forces and the hold-down is used only to hold down. But it releases with a (roughly) half turn, cock sideways, and off past 20 or so threads of the stud to remove and place a new part. But obviously hand torque does not provide enough pressure for frictional control of lateral forces. Not sure how good it would be with a hex added for additional torque, the partial threads might not hold up to it. I also have these in 3/8 and 1/4 sizes, and they mostly see duty in welding fixtures for easy "bolt it together, weld, next" operations. In these cases, the bolts (studs) are often tack welded to my fab table, or to spacer blocks (small pieces structural steel section) and they work GREAT in that capacity.

Now, applying that to the quill stop might not work well with only one. Problem is, there might be some vibration before the quill moves down to contact the stop. Without pressure to hold the nut horizontal, it could easily tilt and fall away. The only way I see this working is to have 2 opposed that lock each other horizontal.

John Stevenson
03-07-2009, 03:45 PM
You might half expect to see one of these units accidentally fall out of the trunk of some tricked out austin martin after the oil slick lever was pulled,

It's Aston Martin you plick :rolleyes:

.

A.K. Boomer
03-07-2009, 03:46 PM
No moving parts and that's cool, but like you say there's no friction and it can tilt at will, round radius spring loaded rollers on one or both opposing thread sides would solve that - but now your getting into complexity some...

really not a bad idea really, if the body has the room to tilt in the milling heads recess?

Mark McGrath
03-07-2009, 03:48 PM
I've seen them mostly on commercial setup machine pallets and inspection fixtures. In fact, I liberated a few of them from said items that were going into the scrap bin. I've got some with 1/2-13 thread and heads about 1.25 diameter with big finger grooves kinda like a sprinkler knob. Great for hold down clamps on light duty milling setups, but only where you have a fixture of sorts to restrain horizontal forces and the hold-down is used only to hold down. But it releases with a (roughly) half turn, cock sideways, and off past 20 or so threads of the stud to remove and place a new part. But obviously hand torque does not provide enough pressure for frictional control of lateral forces. Not sure how good it would be with a hex added for additional torque, the partial threads might not hold up to it. I also have these in 3/8 and 1/4 sizes, and they mostly see duty in welding fixtures for easy "bolt it together, weld, next" operations. In these cases, the bolts (studs) are often tack welded to my fab table, or to spacer blocks (small pieces structural steel section) and they work GREAT in that capacity.

Now, applying that to the quill stop might not work well with only one. Problem is, there might be some vibration before the quill moves down to contact the stop. Without pressure to hold the nut horizontal, it could easily tilt and fall away. The only way I see this working is to have 2 opposed that lock each other horizontal.

I`ve got them as well on stops on a corner notcher.Thread is about 1" dia and as they will loosen with the machine vibration on a long run I do the final tighten with 24" stillsons.Sounds rough but they have a straight knurl on the outside and are hardened so the stillsons don`t mark them.

A.K. Boomer
03-07-2009, 03:50 PM
It's Aston Martin you plick :rolleyes:

.



Forgive me, Iv only had the opportunity to work on a couple of those "gems":rolleyes: and for some reason have forgotten everything I knew about them -- could have been the case of beer and 6 mind erasers afterwards...

Edit; what the fuqes a plick yahko?

John Stevenson
03-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Edit; what the fuqes a plick yahko?

Famous line from one of the Mel Gibson films.

Mel Gibson, taking the micky out of this Chinaman says "Flied Lice"

Chinaman responds, "It's Fried Rice you plick "

Classic.

plunger
09-08-2010, 02:03 PM
My solution to this nut problem was to copy a friend of mines idea. He replaced the threaded shaft that the nut is on with a solid round shaft that had a slot milled along the entire length. Then he simply applied a nut which slides along the shaft and is locked in place with a bolt attached to a handle . Very quick and simple . Its also very sturdy. Wish I knew how to send photos .Maybe I can email a photo to a member and he could post it for me as I am computer challanged
Regards Eugene

DICKEYBIRD
09-08-2010, 02:24 PM
"It's Fried Rice you plick "Speak o' the devil, where IS the ol' bar steward. I miss him. Surely he's not so busy he can't take the pi$$ out of somebody here. Did somebody make him so mad he up & left? I sure hope not.:(

dp
09-08-2010, 02:30 PM
Speak o' the devil, where IS the ol' bar steward. I miss him. Surely he's not so busy he can't take the pi$$ out of somebody here. Did somebody make him so mad he up & left? I sure hope not.:(

He's entertaining the troops at the mad modder forum. http://madmodder.net/

With all the animated sfsf critters in the posts I can see how it would drive one mad.

DICKEYBIRD
09-08-2010, 03:37 PM
Thanks Dennis. I go there myself although not so much lately. I'll keep my eyes open for His Wittiness.:)

(Still wondering what made him vacate this forum.)

dp
09-08-2010, 04:03 PM
Thanks Dennis. I go there myself although not so much lately. I'll keep my eyes open for His Wittiness.:)

(Still wondering what made him vacate this forum.)

Maybe he got tired of being right.

Uncle O
09-08-2010, 07:59 PM
My solution to this nut problem was to copy a friend of mines idea. He replaced the threaded shaft that the nut is on with a solid round shaft that had a slot milled along the entire length. Then he simply applied a nut which slides along the shaft and is locked in place with a bolt attached to a handle . Very quick and simple . Its also very sturdy. Wish I knew how to send photos .Maybe I can email a photo to a member and he could post it for me as I am computer challanged
Regards Eugene


Eugene, I will post it for you. Send me a PM and I will send back my email.

gnm109
09-08-2010, 10:23 PM
I use one of the CDCO spring stops in conjunction with a $35.00 Z scale. I made my own mount. I wanted a Mututoyo Z scale but they were over $100 when I priced one. The scale that I got on eBay has a larger display than a Mitutoyo and it's accurate enough for me. It's still on its first battery after a year and half.

This setup works for the light duty that my mill sees. The little spring scales are only $7.00 and can be adjusted to .020 changes. It's good enough for a mill design that Sir John considers a P.O.S. anyway....:D



http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/gnm109/Machinery/WebbMillZScale.jpg