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lynnl
03-05-2009, 07:16 PM
I need to make a tailstock dieholder for a bunch of hex dies I have.

Rather than trying to nibble out a hex hole I plan to slice off a short section from a deep 1" hex socket and silver solder that into a round bored hole.

The socket has a black oxide finish. Should I sand that down to shiny metal, or will the silver solder adhere to the black oxide?

Naturally I'll degrease it before soldering, either way.

38_Cal
03-05-2009, 07:23 PM
You'll want the surface "in the white" before either silver brazing or using a silver/tin solder. Best bet is to belt sand with about a 320 grit finish. Use plenty of flux, and the appropriate heat, but not too hot.

David
Montezuma, IA

macona
03-05-2009, 07:24 PM
You need to remove the black. The silver solder will probably not like it. The black is a form of iron oxide so it will be like soldering through rust.

lynnl
03-05-2009, 07:26 PM
Thanks.
That's kinda what I expected to hear. Tho I wasn't sure, with that black oxide.

JCHannum
03-05-2009, 08:27 PM
The advice on cleaning to bright metal is well founded, but plain soft solder will probably hold just as well. Nothing against silver solder, but the materials are expensive and it requires quite a bit of heat for large objects which also adds to the cost and may require higher priced equipment as well.

For many applications, soft solder will hold quite well and parts can be sweated together with a common propane torch.

lynnl
03-05-2009, 09:12 PM
Your point is well taken JCH. There will be quite a bit of mass in the holder into which I'll be soldering the short hex section. I do have an acetylene torch, but no point making it more complex than necessary.

thanks for that thought.

chipmaker4130
03-05-2009, 10:26 PM
I made one years ago (still use it) and simply turned a shoulder on the socket with a carbide cutter, chamfered it and welded it to the rest of the adapter. Then turned off the bead, blued the whole thing and done!.

oldtiffie
03-05-2009, 11:55 PM
Why not just get down to parent metal of both parts and just tack weld (MIG) in three places?

Evan
03-06-2009, 01:26 AM
I agree with Jim on using low temperature solder but not ordinary tin-lead solder. Instead use silver bearing solder which is tin with a few percent silver. It is at least twice as strong as tin-lead but can still be easily soldered with a propane torch or even a soldering iron. It also has the added ability to solder stainless steel.

JCHannum
03-06-2009, 09:15 AM
Why not just get down to parent metal of both parts and just tack weld (MIG) in three places?

Because it is impossible to do if you don't have access to a welder.

oldtiffie
03-06-2009, 09:45 AM
I need to make a tailstock dieholder for a bunch of hex dies I have.

Rather than trying to nibble out a hex hole I plan to slice off a short section from a deep 1" hex socket and silver solder that into a round bored hole.

The socket has a black oxide finish. Should I sand that down to shiny metal, or will the silver solder adhere to the black oxide?

Naturally I'll degrease it before soldering, either way.


Originally Posted by oldtiffie
Why not just get down to parent metal of both parts and just tack weld (MIG) in three places?




Originally Posted by oldtiffie
Why not just get down to parent metal of both parts and just tack weld (MIG) in three places?

Because it is impossible to do if you don't have access to a welder.

Jim,

where did the OP say he didn't have access to a (MIG) welder?

JCHannum
03-06-2009, 01:15 PM
Jim,

where did the OP say he didn't have access to a (MIG) welder?

Where did it say he did?

His choice was to use silver solder for what ever reason. The question pertained to methodology required to accomplish that end, nothing else.

I suggested the use of soft solder simply as a more economical alternate. The term soft solder is non-specific BTW and covers tin-lead as well as silver bearing and other low temperature alloys.

The Fixer
03-06-2009, 01:22 PM
Hmmmm seems like a reasonable justification to go out and buy a welder, don't you think so guys?

lynnl
03-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Well I do have welders, both mig and ac/dc stick, but I have so much junk and clutter to move out of the way to get to them that it sort of discourages their use for a small operation like this.

Plus... soldering just appeals to me more for this application, can't say why that is.

Regarding the solders: I have on hand several feet of true silver solder bought from a welding supply place, stiff hard stuff that doesn't melt til red heat. I've used that for bandsaw blades, and to braze carbide pieces onto homegrown boring bars and the like.
Also have a plastic tube with a coil of soft, flexible solder (Kester) that's 98% tin, 2% silver (think I bought that at WalMart)
And then a spool of Oatey lead free rosin core electrical (95% tin, 5% antimony) and a spool of 40 tin/60 lead acid core.
And lastly, a partial spool (was probably originally 50 ft or more) of very thin (maybe 1/32") of some kind of solid core. There's no markings at all on the spool so I have no idea what it is. It's not as shiny as the other stuff, but then it's real old, probably came in a lot bought at auction.

My thought now is to use that Kester 2% silver stuff.

BadDog
03-06-2009, 05:44 PM
This is how I did it. No soldering and has auto release for reverse with a dog clutch. Mounts in collet, tool post, or TS chuck...
http://www.members.cox.net/baddog4x4/shop/projects.jpg

BigBoy1
03-07-2009, 07:07 AM
Would it be possible to use the socket without cutting it? Could you mill the end of rod bar stock to a square to fit the normal drive end of the socket? Then the socket wouldn't have to be cut. The socket with its new "tail" could have the tail welded or silver soldered or mechanically (pinned) fastend to remain in place.

lynnl
03-07-2009, 12:30 PM
Would it be possible to use the socket without cutting it? ....

Yes I considered that. But this is a cheap set of deep sockets anyway, from HF as I recall, and I don't think I've ever had a need for it, and may never.
So it just seems that it will be handier to have it all ready to use by having the socket permanently in place.

38_Cal
03-07-2009, 03:24 PM
You realize that the day after you alter the socket, you'll need it for it's intended purpose and have to go buy another!

David
Montezuma, IA