Sun of God (solar project)

[A.K. Boomer]

My bro's going solar @ his electrical shop and Iv been on the panel mount engineering design duty end of it - he had the initial idea of going with uni-strut to his steel building and also using angle aluminum but the rest of the design is how I put the stuff together, first off I attached both angles of the aluminum to the steel strut for optimal support (the top and sides) --- stainless steel washers are used between the two to eliminate galvanic action, all aluminum that has steel fastening hardware has at least stainless washers and sometimes even bolts and nuts depending on the situation,,



second up was coupling the end pieces together --- i lathed up some appropriate spacers and used a 1/2" by 13 bolt/nut and SS washers to clamp it down, these are 2" by 2" angle alum. and I think 1/8" or 3/16" thick ---- i took a pretty heavy guy up in the snorkel lift and he hung off the end of one no problemo --- he was probably at least 225lbs --- I think I could have jumped on too with no probs...



When i tied them all together with the panel rail they really got strong in every direction --- this pic below shows how I staggered every other one of the struts in build design (the angle of the aluminum) -- I built odds and evens and installed one odd to one even - repeat --- what this does is it takes care of the inherent weakness that the bottom and top angle have in one direction --- due to the bottom being a compression and the top the opposite if all units faced the same direction there would be an inherent flaw in side load stability -- this is going to be critical when the panels get loaded up with potentially thousands of pounds of wet snow.

[J Tiers]

So do they tilt for optimal angle per the season?

[dp]

Solar what? Photovoltaic, solar heat exchanger, or both??

There's only a little over a kilowatt/meter squared on a good day and with optimum exposure and fixed panels are optimum two brief moments each year. I'm not aware of any energy recovery method that can actually extract that total energy/meter squared, so expect less than that even on those to optimum days.

[A.K. Boomer]

This pic shows the segregation mount --- its a piece I modified on the mill to have .005" slip fit, what your looking at is the half way mark for the panels -- its 30ft. and the max. you should run without an expansion joint in the panel rail, the side of the building is 60ft. and will basically have two separate panel sections due to the aluminum being able to expand over an inch from temp extremes --- the middle strut is a "floater" it belongs to neither side, its only job is to mount the rail slide to and it does supply support -- but mostly just vertical - this pic is the half way point and is how much Iv got done so far.





This pic is a good one --- it shows the sun in this wonderful transition stage and its position on the office windows --- the panels will block the summer sun perfectly and cut down on AC usage - yet in the winter months they will allow all of it to go in for solar heat gain (and office people sanity)



This last pic really puts things into perspective - I have no idea but im guessing maybe these panels are 2% of the surface of this immense building -- look at the energy we are being bombarded with --- Now my bro will have free electricity with no batteries -- the New photovoltaic systems do it all by inverter --- you sponge off the mother nipple when you need to and spin your meter backwards when you dont -- if it goes to far back you even can end up with a check in the mail...
Very kool, this pic also shows my mountain bike by the snorkle lift - I rode from canon to florence and back today - a fair sized dog tried to get ahold of my leg, I dropped it down a gear - cranked some raging rpm's - he couldnt figure out where my foot was - I then took it off the pedal and he lunged for it - my leg was half cocked - i pasted him at speed into the other lane - he was in mid air run when I kicked his head hard - he went to put his front legs out in front of him and they gave out sideways --- he did a sideways face plant into the pavement -- I raised my fist into the air and yelled at him "next time its death" I rode that way on the way home to see if he wanted to play some more, Nope...

[A.K. Boomer]

So do they tilt for optimal angle per the season?

Not worth the hassle --- summer is by far your greatest gains -- they rate consumption/exchange on a yearly basis so what you want is optimum angle of attack for the entire year of course but this means favoring the summertime in a huge way, My bro crunched all those numbers and came up with the optimum angle.

[A.K. Boomer]

Solar what? Photovoltaic, solar heat exchanger, or both??

There's only a little over a kilowatt/meter squared on a good day and with optimum exposure and fixed panels are optimum two brief moments each year. I'm not aware of any energy recovery method that can actually extract that total energy/meter squared, so expect less than that even on those to optimum days.

Dp, my bro's been installing panels for over two decades - he's always been right on the mark as he knows what he's doing when it comes to this stuff --- The guy that hung off one of my struts was actually one of his solar customers from 20 years ago -- he just told me his system is still putting out just fine - he came by to see the progress He's got an old battery bank system and wanted to see the new inverter...

[dp]

You've got my curiosity up - here in Seattle solar is hit/miss. I wonder what the average power that particular setup generates. Taking advantage of both photovoltaic and heat is a good idea if you need the heat, but when we have that much sun we turn on the AC

[A.K. Boomer]

DP --- we get bombarded - I forget the amount of days per year but its ideal for solar --- iv heard conflicting storys about washington state though --- depending on the coast vs. the east part of state? i always thought it was raining there all the time till someone said the east is very sunny

[dp]

DP --- we get bombarded - I forget the amount of days per year but its ideal for solar --- iv heard conflicting storys about washington state though --- depending on the coast vs. the east part of state? i always thought it was raining there all the time till someone said the east is very sunny

I have a home near Seattle and another in Eastern WA on Hwy 97 at the Canadian border. The climates are totally different. Canadians call the area teh banana belt.

Summers in the east are like southern California desert weather. In the winter it can be bitter cold with moderate amounts of snow that can linger. Snow there sublimates whereas in Seattle it melts. It is seldom cloudy there and often cloudy here. Electricity there is dirt cheap owing to Bonneville and expensive here. Solar would work there but is not needed - it doesn't work here where it is needed. Go figger

[J Tiers]

Not worth the hassle --- summer is by far your greatest gains -- they rate consumption/exchange on a yearly basis so what you want is optimum angle of attack for the entire year of course but this means favoring the summertime in a huge way, My bro crunched all those numbers and came up with the optimum angle.

That's what I did also....... although I have it set up to adjust, I just don't, generally. They've been up almost as long as your bro's been in biz... the originals were old browned Carrizo plant take-outs. Worked great until a falling tree (fell from North) got them. The new panels aren't nearly as good on cloudy days..... although in sun they put out almost as much with 1/3 the area.

Don't despise the winter, or spring/fall. Cold cells put out more juice than hot ones, although typically the total energy input is much less. But if you don't adjust, you don't get much of what little there is. I don't care, it runs my shed, and I don't spend much time out there when it's 4 degrees.

If you really WANT the power, you have to adjust.

[BillH]

Washington State has a desert you know...
West of the mountains, RAIN, East of the Mountains, DRY.

[Your Old Dog]

Not worth the hassle --- summer is by far your greatest gains -- they rate consumption/exchange on a yearly basis so what you want is optimum angle of attack for the entire year of course but this means favoring the summertime in a huge way, My bro crunched all those numbers and came up with the optimum angle.

He must be using the older type of solar panels that aren't that fussy over angle but produce even on cloudy days. I understand the new type generate more power but really need to aimed at the sun somewhat.

Boomer I like your answer to the angle iron pivots. That problem has kept me from using angle iron for various projects. You have empowered me son

[A.K. Boomer]

Don't despise the winter, or spring/fall. Cold cells put out more juice than hot ones, .

Yes, thats the main reason for the 4" gap between building and panels --- its for optimum efficiency in the heat of the summer months --- the panels will breath quite well even on a dead calm day they will create there own thermals and draw cooler air in from the bottom and vent it out the top -- the efficiency rating will be much greater on these rather than roof mounted ones --- also - if we fall slightly short of the mark (very unlikely since my bro's the one that did the math ) we can paint the top of the building with reflective paint and supercharge the panels for in the winter months and the sun will automatically "back off" its power for in the summer (not that the panels couldnt handle it -- they can and do, in fact in some situations you have to figure it in when they are ground frame mounted and theres snow all around...)

[Evan]

Got a few questions Boomer. I don't think you have to worry about snow load but what happens if you lift on the structure (wind)? I am also curious what it is fastened to on the side of the building.

What are those panels rated at? I make it at maybe 2 kilowatts output for the array. Are you able to give an approximate cost for the entire installation?

Solar electric has a long way to go if it is ever going to be useful any place like here. No matter how efficient the array is it must have sun to operate and here that means only about 8 months of the year.

There is also the possibility of increased gobal warming potential because of the increase in energy absorption. You picture demonstrates this nicely based on the color difference between the before and after appearance of the building.

[A.K. Boomer]

YOD I believe your correct - the panels are not that fussy about the angle of attack or light cloud cover - they are however brand new up to date - its just that there seems to be slightly different designs for different applications now, These are Sharp's --- I guess Sanyo has ones that are actually a couple more percent efficient but I believe they are more finicky about the angle and I know their much more pricey -- they may be Ideal for someone with limited space - use the best you can find and dont just think different angle for summer and winter -- think tracking system...

Thanks for the reply about the angle alum. -- it was one of those "what the hell am I going to do there" went to sleep --- woke up and started turning up spacers and then realized I had solved the problem...