auto darkening arc weld helmet

[wtrueman]

Hi all: I'm going down to maui for some sun: Yah I know but I've had a huge amount of snow and cold and my swmbo told me to pony up the monies!! Any way, I want an auto darkening arc helmet. For what I need, occasional use, what do you suggest? Preferably cheap. And, do they ship to maui so I can bring it back to Canada as a purchase? Thanks, Wayne.

[macona]

You get what you pay for. I have an Optrel Satellite. You can find them used for about $150.

[airsmith282]

if you want cheap but good buy a lincon, i got mine new at canadian tire was on sale for 100.00 regular 150.00 and its really slick and no batteries to worry about, or you can go lindy or BOC they are also very good as well.i like the millers but way out of even my budget..

[Your Old Dog]

Keep in mind the "main" difference between a $75 dollar helmet and a $500 dollar hemet is how many welders you can work near and not go dark on their flash. If you want this for home buy a cheap one. Mine will occasionally flash dark when a stray piece of sunlight hits it but it's no big deal. I suppose if you worked in a fabrication shop with other welders working it would be annoying to have it getting faked out by other weldors. Mine is a $150 Hobart purchased about 7 years ago, should be cheaper today. You're going to look pretty stupid running around the beaches with this helmet thing. They're going to think you are from Canada or something :D This topic came up once before here and had some good responces. Try to get one with the solar battery charger and not just battery operated.

[gnm109]

I have an older Speedglas hood that has performed flawlessly for more than ten years with the same batteries. It's got inside and outside settings and a sensitivity setting. The screen is around 3" X 4-1/4". It's not the largest but it's plenty of vision area. It''s adjustable from 8-13 shades so it covers the spectrum. Best of all, it's very light. Mine was madei in Sweden before 3-M bought the company, I think.

The only problem is that they aren't cheap. I paid something like $300 and they must be close to $500 nowadays.

I'v e heard good things about the H.F. Hoods which are selling for less then $70. They are, of course, Chinese..........

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[oldtiffie]

I have two of those auto hoods - both Chinese - one solar-charged and the other battery-operated, and both go down to shade 7.

I work on my own so "phantom-flash/decoy" by/from other weldors is not an issue.

Both work very well.

[jihe]

If you are welding a lot under fluorescent lighting you may need to buy an expensive one. The cheap ones tend to darken if used in a room with lots of fluorescent tubes.

[radkins]

Just as with import machine tools a lot of this stuff gets rebranded and over-priced! About nine years ago I bought a Hobart (same as the Miller), the one they call " the Hood", for $199.00. Then a few weeks later I was looking at one at Harbor Freight and noticed a lot of similarity in the lens, what I found was it had the SAME EXACT "Chameleon" brand lens as my new $200 Hobart but this thing was only 50 bucks! :mad: Sure the shell and headgear was a bit cheaper built but it was not bad at all and the electrics were the EXACT SAME THING! Hobart (and Miller) use a different lens in these helmets now and I don't know if the HF helmet uses the same as the Hobart now or not but they certainly have developed a huge following and a good reputation. How much you spend on one of these things should be determined by what you intend to do with it, as pointed out if you use it in a production setting and use it a lot then one of the more expensive models is the way to go but for weekend or hobby type work there is hardly a need to shell out big bucks since one of the HF helmets does a really good job. All of these helmets offer about the same UV and IR protection and do so even in the lightened mode so all those BS horror stories about people going blind because a cheap helmet did not darken fast enough are just that-BS! The UV and IR protection is a function of the lens material and has little or nothing to do with the lens going dark and the protection is there even before it goes dark, it may be a bit un-nerving if the lens fails to change but it is not dangerous.

[airsmith282]

personaly i value my eyes and i was told to stay right clear of the chinese and other off shore brands for these helmets, i have a reular run of the mill helmet thats not auto darkening an its good but when it come to this auto darkening stuff even i asked around and even the welding shop in town here said to stay clear of chinese and off shore stuff as they are junk to the hilt..
i like my eyes and i trust some one that sells this stuff for a living more then i trust anyone else.i also trust others i know that do this stuff to but when the sales guy even says no to something thats 2 or more people and to me thats golden..

i think its cool to have all the neat controlls but iam also not going to relay on a battey to save my eyes either, chances are slim it will fail but there is less of a chance a fully solar power one will ever fail...i also have regular goggles for oxy welding i can see better and i dont have to worry about forgetting to reset the lens levels another advantage of different goggles or helmets. i have no settings on the lincon but its to dark to do oxy with so proper equipmnet for the job works for me..

i cant say i really care what anyone does or buys has nothing to do with me but i like my eyes and i enjoy seeing the world..i did alot of research before i got the lincon and iam happy with it and if had the extra 30 bucks at the time i would have gone with the BOC , if i was rich i would have gone miller. but the lincon was on sale for 100.00 and that saved me 30 for more arc sticks.

i have no settings to forget about no batteries to die on me and she is all around a good helmet. the boc was the same set up BOC is now owed by lindy and they will still be producing the exact same helmet and they sell tones of them .you might say the BOC and lindays are clones of the lincon and priced 20 bucks cheaper then the lincons on average...

[fahnoe]

Another vote for the Speedglass helmets. When I got mine, the best price (& free shipping) was from Indiana Oxygen (http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/servlet/the-WELDING-HELMETS-AND-EYE-PROTECTION-cln-Hornell/Categories). More expensive that some perhaps, but I've only got the one set of eyes. Looks like the free shipping doesn't cover Hawaii though...

--Larry

[ecortech]

This question has come up here several times before use the search you will find lots of info. How much is your eyesight worth?
Buy the best there is, either an SpeedGlass or Optrel, there may be others that are the same quality. If you can't afford the best, then stick with a good quality manual flip up helmet. Do not buy an auto that does not have a battery that can't be changed, even the solar powered that say no battery to change have a small battery sealed inside, that has a lifespan. If you can't replace it when it's dead the helmet will be trash, waste of money, I found out the hard way.

Ed

[Alistair Hosie]

I bought one from ebay a while ago I don't weld much but it's a good one ok it's a hobart don't know if thats a good one or not but it works good ask Dave coffer about them he suggested I take it out of the box as the memories go or something if their kept in their boxes.Alistair

[oldtiffie]

I have had zero problems with my hoods/helmets as said. Regular eye tests have confirmed this as well.

[Roy Andrews]

before buying my helmet i asked my eye Dr. he looked into it for me and said that only two brands had been certified for use by optimologists. they where optrell and hornel speedglass. so i got the speedglass because while not cheap it was cheaper than optrel. i love my helmet and keep it in a helmet bag when not in use. i have had it for 6 years with no problems. when i got it i got spare lenses and batteries but have never used any of them. the front lens is burnt brown but is still clear.

[radkins]

Probably few if any lens are made in the US and most people would probably be surprised to find out where their new helmet lens was made, I know for a fact the first Hobart and Miller where the Chinese Chameleon brand (the same one that was in the Harbor Freight helmet). Fellows you will not burn your eyes with one of these auto dark helmets the UV and IR protection has nothing to do with how fast it darkens or even IF it darkens, the UV and IR rays are absorbed by the lens material and is the same whether in the dark or light stage. These things have been around more than 20 years now and this old myth still exists but it is just that, a myth! When these helmets first came out the company I worked for bought about 30 of them at one time and we all were a bit leery of them, not a surprising reaction to something new. These were all Jackson helmets and Jackson sent a rep out to explain how they worked and to assure everyone they are safe to use and as he pointed out if there was any way to hurt yourself with one due to a lens not darkening then the product liability and workers comp lawyers would put them out of business PDQ! Believe what you like but all of these things have to meet Government standards and besides there is no rocket science to stopping the harmful rays anyway, that part is very easy and the electrics have NOTHING to do with it.



There are several BS stories that have floated around for years usually about some poor worker who was given the task of just tacking some parts together. Now because it was just tacking he had to strike the arc hundreds of times a day and went blind in a short time because of the delay between the time the arc was struck and the lens going dark, the reasoning being that the effect is cumulative. This is pure USDA certified BS! There is no more exposure when the arc is struck than there is when welding, the protection is there even before the lens goes dark and does not depend on the electrics. Just as the Jackson rep pointed out if this could happen the lawyers would have a field day with them, Don't take my word for any of this just check it out with any of the manufacturers.

[small.planes]

Another satified Speedglas user here. I found a 9100xx (the large window one) on sale and I love it.
The side windows make it much more 'airy' and the increased peripheral vision is a real bonus. Ive tig'd down to 5A with it :cool:

Dave

[radkins]

Another satified Speedglas user here.Dave


I don't own a Speedglas but after getting to use one for a couple of days while helping a buddy build a trailer I sure wish I had of tried one before I spent nearly $400.00 on my Jackson. I like the Jackson but that Speedglas just "feels" right and is loaded with well thought out features, I doubt if I will ever buy another helmet but if I do I will sure take a second look this time. :)

[Tinkerer]

A auto darkening helmet is nice to have. I have two... the one I use I got on ebay from a seller called oregontool or some such for $29.00 shipped and it's just as good as the Jackson I tested that was 5 times the money. I've used it indoors under florescence lights and outdoors hanging steel poles no issues at all. Been using it for 6-7 years when it dies I pull the Hobart out that came with the 180 package and use it.

[radkins]

I have two... the one I use I got on ebay from a seller called oregontool or some such for $29.00 shipped and it's just as good as the Jackson I tested that was 5 times the money.



The HF helmet I used also seems to work just fine but it does not have all the features of my Jackson. Those HF helmets have developed quite a following and because of the price have become extremely popular, funny there does not seem to be a rash of eye injuries after the 10 years or so they have been in use :). All joking aside the biggest issue with the cheapo helmets seems to be with the quality (or lack of) of the headgear and the shell not the lens as they seem to hold up fairly well and safety does not seem to have been an issue at all. The bottom line is the decision should be based on what a person plans to do with the helmet, certainly a full time welder earning his/her living with the thing should buy quality dependable gear that is not likely to fall apart on the job. On the other hand does it really make sense to pay $400.00 or so for a helmet to use for hobby work or maybe a couple of times a week when one costing a fraction of the pro gear will work just fine? If someone don't mind spending the money for an expensive helmet to use occasionally that's fine if they insist on the best but it is not necessary if the major reason for doing so is safety. Seems every time this subject comes up (I have seen it on other boards more so than here) the usual line is "I would not trust my eyes to cheap electrics" but that is not the case at all because the electrics are not what stops the UV and IR rays. The fact is there are far more of the import lens in use than the pro quality brands (obviously due to price) but there does not seem to be a rash of injuries resulting from using them, again this is because stopping the harmful rays is the easy part and meeting the mandated standards is not hard to do nor expensive.

[Tinkerer]

radkins... I know this for sure I've not been flashed one time since I picked up the ADH. But had been more times then I can remember with the old fixed shade flip down one I have hanging on the wall for the lookielews. ;)

[ecortech]

An important thing that most people don't consider is how well the helmet fits. You are far more likely to expose your eyes to harmful UV and IR from reflected light than from direct through the lens. As had been stated by several people the harmful stuff is blocked by the lens, whether it darkens or not. I have glued pieces of leather to my helmet around the edges to block any reflected light. Aluminum welding is especially bad for reflecting harmful rays, also a reflection off of a chrome part such as a bumper, can do it too. I have seen guys that have newly started in an aluminum fab shop, get severe welder's flash from reflected rays because their helmet did not fit well.

Please don't try this as you could damage your eyes further please read further posts
Another trick I have heard is, if you get a flash, is to immediately stare at a fluorescent light for several minutes, is said to minimize or prevent the painful effects of welding flash. I don't know how or why this works, but have been told by several very experienced welders that it most definitely does work.

Ed

[radkins]

An important thing that most people don't consider is how well the helmet fits. You are far more likely to expose your eyes to harmful UV and IR from reflected light than from direct through the lens. As had been stated by several people the harmful stuff is blocked by the lens, whether it darkens or not. I have glued pieces of leather to my helmet around the edges to block any reflected light. Aluminum welding is especially bad for reflecting harmful rays, also a reflection off of a chrome part such as a bumper, can do it too. I have seen guys that have newly started in an aluminum fab shop, get severe welder's flash from reflected rays because their helmet did not fit well. Another trick I have heard is, if you get a flash, is to immediately stare at a fluorescent light for several minutes, is said to minimize or prevent the painful effects of welding flash. I don't know how or why this works, but have been told by several very experienced welders that it most definitely does work.

Ed


Good point about the fit and this applies not only to cheap helmets but the most expensive too! I have for years used leather "skirts" around my helmets, both conventional and auto dark, not only for eye protection but for skin protection too. Mostly in the neck area is where a welder usually experiences problems but the face and ears can be exposed too, this does not always have to be a noticeable burn to be a problem. UV burns to exposed skin can be painful and can cause scaring but that is the least of the concerns as it can also cause a life threatening Melanoma which is the deadliest of the common skin cancers.


I have to take exception to the recommendation to look at a florescent or any other bright light as a remedy for flash burn. Not only does it not seem to make sense but it can aggravate the condition instead of helping. This and a couple of other "remedies" came up at one of our annual mine safety training classes a few years ago and caused such a heated argument that the company, fearing legal action if someone hurt themselves by doing this (because it came from one of the instructors), hired an ophthalmologist to come out and discuss the situation. There were three controversial "remedies" that had been suggested, one was to hold your eyes as close to a heat source or open flame as you could stand! This one was considered by almost everyone but the guy who recommended doing it to be so stupid it did not even warrant serious discussion. It was however what got the whole thing started and the one about looking at a light, florescent or incandescent, was then suggested by the instructor. The Ophthalmologist told us in no uncertain terms DON'T DO THAT! He went into detail about how it would just irritate the burn even more and could not possibly do any good at all, he did say that any apparent relief would be due to making the problem worse then it might SEEM to have helped after the added irritation was removed.


The third suggestion was the time honored and very common recommendation to put slices of potatoes over your burned eyes, DON'T DO THAT EITHER! In spite of what the "old timers" will tell you there is nothing in a potato to help burned eyes except the fact that they are usually cool to the touch which will help relive the pain a little, ice works better. What putting potatoes on your burned eyes can do is cause a potentially blinding eye infection! Any doctor will tell you that the major concern with a burn is the danger of infection and putting anything non-sterile on a burn is dangerous and this is one old myth that can hurt you big time. I know very well this is so common someone probably will come here and say they do it all the time or they know someone who has welded for 50 years and always done it but if you burn your eyes who do you go to, your doctor or the guy who has been welding fifty years? I can guarantee your doctor will not put potatoes on your eyes. :rolleyes:

The bottom line is that you have only one pair of eyes and these old time remedies like staring at a bright light or potato slices could cause you to lose them! This is no place for old time "cures" and if you get flash burned use ice and a little common sense and if you are not better in a few hours with a minor burn, or immediately if you have a real serious burn, forget witch-doctor cures and see your doctor while you can STILL SEE!

[wtrueman]

Ok! I did not think I would get this much feedback! Thankyou all for the info. The "older" visor I have has worked well at the school for the past 10? years. What I want is the same part time usage I enjoyed from this one now for my own use at my shop. The reason I mentioned Maui was me hoping I could find a dealer such as Harbour Freight to bring home a visor cheaper than paying the customs duties at the border. I usually go on these vacations so I can Open my wallet???!!! This would be my declaration as well as macadamia nuts! Anyway, any ideas further? What I "think" is happening is that the market is flooding with these visors and maybe I shold buy it in British Columbia and pay for the shipping? What do you guys think? Wayne.

[wtrueman]

Hi there: I just thought of something else and will go back to the General area: Any ideas about buying on Maui, where, same as the main land? and I am looking at the Harbour Freight rollers for the English Wheel parts for the same reason as above: to beat shipping, not customs. Wayne. Any suggestions? Thanks again, Wayne.

[ecortech]

Radkins I haven't heard the other two so called welders remedies you mentioned only the fluorescent light one. I don't know much about it or how it is supposed to work, and I definitely would not try it myself unless I had a little more info. I agree that kind of thing doesn't seem to make much sense to me. I mentioned it because I figured someone would comment on it, maybe provide a little more info on such things, probably not the best way to go about finding more info. Anybody having more info on such things please post it. I have edited my previous post to warn people not to do this

Ed

[radkins]

Radkins I haven't heard the other two so called welders remedies Ed


I am not surprised that you have not heard the one about holding the eyes close to a heat source, the first I heard it was at that training class but I have heard it mentioned several times since. Holding burned eyes next to a heat source or open flame is just so ridiculous I could not imagine anyone of reasonable intelligence doing that and I doubt very many people would take a suggestion like that serious. The potato "remedy" however has been around about as long as arc welding and most welders (weldors) have heard it suggested at one time or another. There are several reasons offered as to how it works but none are valid except for maybe the fact they tend to cool the burn which could be accomplished much better with ice packs. I know more than one welder that would swear by the potato method but I think if they would talk to their doctor or Ophthalmologist they would think twice about doing something like that. As one guy at the class put it, squeeze some potato juice into a small container and let it sit in a warm place for a little while then ask yourself if you would want to put a smelly substance like that in healthy eyes never mind BURNED eyes!

[wtrueman]

Thankyou all for your time and comments. Wayne. I think I'll look for the speedglass while down there. It does not have to be bought then so may keep looking. Again, thanks, Wayne

[andy_b]

instead of starting a new thread, i thought i'd ask this question here.

i have one of the HF auto-darkening helmets that i bought about five years ago. i have a 120V wirefeed welder that i mainly use. last week i was using an old Lincoln 220V stick welder and the helmet seemed to darken fine. i was running about 175A. i then needed to weld together some sheet metal and got out the wirefeed welder, and the helmet would not darken. i haven't used the helmet for months and it is stored inside a cabinet. it is one of the solar powered helmets.

so, do you guys think the battery is going, or could the sensors be dirty, or is the helmet nearing the end of its life, or??????

andy b.

[radkins]

instead of starting a new thread, i thought i'd ask this question here.

i have one of the HF auto-darkening helmets that i bought about five years ago. i have a 120V wirefeed welder that i mainly use. last week i was using an old Lincoln 220V stick welder and the helmet seemed to darken fine. i was running about 175A. i then needed to weld together some sheet metal and got out the wirefeed welder, and the helmet would not darken. i haven't used the helmet for months and it is stored inside a cabinet. it is one of the solar powered helmets.

so, do you guys think the battery is going, or could the sensors be dirty, or is the helmet nearing the end of its life, or??????

andy b.


Never store one of those things in a dark place!


With that said, make sure the lens is clean/clear and the sensors are not blocked by a hazy lens then place it, lens toward the light, in a sunny window or other spot in the sunlight (don't forget it and leave it outside to get rained on like I did once!:mad:) for a day or two so the batteries can recharge. That will most times take care of your problem.

[andy_b]

THANKS!!! i'll put it out in the sun today and tomorrow and see what happens.

andy b.

[macona]

Like radkins said, put it out in the sun. Wont take long usually to get it going. Maybe a half hour.

[jdunmyer]

I have one of those HF auto-darkening helmets, and they do mention a finite life for the battery. Something like 8-10 years, IIRC.

[boslab]

one remedy i tried for flash was 2 used teabags[refrigerated], it did help a little but the eyedrops from the ER were the most help, i think there was adrenaline in them?, a very painfull condition if you get it bad.
ive so far destroyed 2 chinese cheapos, they were bloody hopeless.
i now have a lincon in red white an blue with a sheapskin furry bit, its comfy dont get a headache as its light, i have a 1.5 dioptre mag lens [age dont come alone] so i can see what the hell i'm not welding.
Remember theres.......pp norm abraham an buy a better headsheild than your welding set!, its cheaper
have fun
regards
mark

[Bill736]

That's a real problem these days; you buy a name brand product because you feel you need high quality , but find out the guts of the unit are made in China or India along side the Harbor Freight units. I have a Harbor Freight auto darkening , fixed shade helmet. It works, but I don't trust it, and I've decided to spend the money on a Lincoln helmet . I trust the people at Lincoln ( or Miller) to deliver a high quality helmet, regardless of where the lens is made. It's a fact that the moral and legal codes are different in many foreign countries, especially third world countries. No American manufacturer is likely to intentionally cut corners on a welding helmet to the point that your eyes could be damaged. However, a sense of ethics or legal responsibility is not a factor in many places in the world if money can be made. If you're a mountain climber, would you buy your rope from Harbor Freight ? Your eyes are just as important.

[radkins]

Chinese or not, and some of the American helmets have Chinese lens, they all have to meet ANSI standards and you are not going to burn your eyes with them. As has been mentioned numerous times before the electrics have little to nothing to do with the UV/IR protection, that is a fixed function of the lens material and you will receive the same protection whether the lens goes dark or not. Absorbing UV/IR rays is very simple and is the function of the lens material while the electrics reduce the visible light, the dangerous rays are absorbed by the lens material before even reaching the electric layer.


"Urban legends" abound about these helmets, usually about some poor worker going blind after being forced by his employer to use one that was not darkening fast enough but these stories are pure BS! You do not receive UV/IR exposure during the time it takes the lens to go dark so while an exceptionally slow reacting lens may be uncomfortable it is not dangerous, even when it fails to darken at all! We all have this happen from time to time while welding with these helmets but in spite of what the common myths would have you believe it is not dangerous, maybe a bit uncomfortable but it will not burn your eyes.

[rode2rouen]

I have one of those HF auto-darkening helmets, and they do mention a finite life for the battery. Something like 8-10 years, IIRC.


I have a Jackson 3n1 auto dark. After about 10 years of use, the batteries went belly up. Installed a new pair of AAA cells, and I'm back in business.

Rex

[Bill736]

radkins- I hear you, but who is checking all these helmets to make sure they meet ANSI standards ? Who is checking the lens materials to make sure they block all of the UV rays ? Does Harbor Freight check them ? Do the Chinese exporters check them ? Would ordinary window glass with a cheap tint block all of the harmful rays as well as a professional helmet? That's my point...somewhere along the line you have to put some trust in the product and the brand name . There are loads of products sold in this country that have bogus UL stickers , but they're not sold by reliable companies with reputations to protect. They're mostly made in China and sold under brand names that change every month. Is the same thing true for products with ANSI stickers ? I don't have all the answers to these questions, but when something really important is at stake, I tend to take the conservative road even if it means overspending a bit.

[radkins]

radkins- Would ordinary window glass with a cheap tint block all of the harmful rays as well as a professional helmet?


Actually yes it would and it would not have to be darkened to stop the UV/IR rays! Ordinary glass most certainly will stop these rays although it would have to be somewhat heavier than window glass, not sure at the moment just how thick but it is surprising just how little it takes. Just the glass in a car will stop these rays from the sun, did you notice you can not get sunburned in a car driving with the windows up? That's what I meant when I said stopping the UV/IR is the easy part since it takes very little material to do this and it is nothing exotic so there is no monetary motive to use something else. There seems to be a misunderstanding in that most people think the UV/IR filtration is a function of how dark the lens is but that is not so, these rays are not like the visible wavelengths that have to be passed through a darkened filter and they are easily absorbed by almost any transparent material. There are literally hundreds of thousands or even millions of these things in use, using mostly "cheap" Chinese lens, and there are no documented cases of blindness occurring from lens failure in spite of those "poor guys" in the BS sob stories we keep hearing about. If this actually did happen it would be big news in the industry and the product liability lawyers would be all over it!

[Cheeseking]

I have one of those $50 HF auto darkening helmets. Works fine. Head strap is cheap and uncomfortable as hell but it auto darks just fine. My shop lights are flourescent and I haven't had any issues with nuisance darking.
My thinking is if the HF units are really no good (as some here imply) and allow dangerous levels of UV through -1: I would be blind by now. 2: So would lots of other people. Happy to say that isn't the case. If you are a professional welder or have the luxury of only buying the best go ahead and buy the $500 lid. Radkins has it right in my opinion.

[boslab]

somthing that hasent come up is infrared radiation, i know there is a poster in the steelplant regarding same in that it causes cateracts over time, basically what they are saying is dont look or stare at red hot/glowing steel with unprotected eyes as it will cause damage [we get a lot of glowing steel slabs and molten steel/iron] it seems that just looking at glowing steel without glasses will cause cateracts, interestingly ali will be emmiting without glowing.
I have to wear a visor when wandering round in the steelplant [gold plated] so i dont have a problem but i thought i'd mention it [the info comes from the as was NRPB]
how do you 'watch your eyes'?
[i'd still go with lincon with furry bit!]
regards
mark

[radkins]

somthing that hasent come up is infrared radiation,mark

Well we have been covering it,

UV/IR= U-ltra V-iolet and I-nfrared R-adiation


You are of course right on all points about infrared radiation and this is the reason that a person CAN burn their eyes cutting, welding and brazing with a torch in spite of what some people might say. It takes longer exposure to the torch radiation than to an electric arc but it can still happen, with a torch it is the long term consequences that are the most serious however.

[boslab]

of course its been abreviated but no one has stated what it does, I-nfrared that is,
mark

[radkins]

of course its been abreviated but no one has stated what it does, I-nfrared that is,
mark



My apologies I mis-understood what you meant, IR can be an insidious hazard because a person could go for years and think it was not hurting them at all but when it happens it is then too late!

[andy_b]

well i left the helmet in the sun for a few days. i've been using it playing around with my stick welder lately and it appears the batteries are bad. it will work fine for a few minutes and then slowly starts not darkening and eventually it won't darken at all. on the weekend i'd stick it out on the hood of my truck in the sun for a few minutes, and then it work for about another minute. it certainly seems like the batteries (lithium CR2330 3V cells) are no longer holding a full charge. i have had problems like this with lithium batteries before.

so, i pulled the shade apart and there are two lithium batteries in there and they have two tabs soldered on them. as much as i enjoy being a cheap b@stard, i'm thinking these cells will fail again in a few years and i'll have to go through the hassle of soldering in two more. do any of these solar auto-darkening helmets have easy to get at and easy to replace batteries? preferably something easy to find like some rechargeable AAA cells of some sort. as much as i hate to purchase a new helmet, i may do it just so i don't have to go through this again.

andy b.

[andy_b]

i stopped by the welding supply shop today to pick up some rods and decided to check out the auto helmets. they are a Speedglas dealer and i told the guy my crappy Harbor Fright helmet was acting up and i was looking for a new helmet but didn't really want to spend $300 for a Speedglas. he said he understood and showed me the new Speedglas 100V helmets. it turns out they had some welding and fabrication show a few weeks ago and had a bunch of the 100V helmets on sale at the show. they still had some left for $150, so needless to say, i am now a proud Speedglas wearer. :)

of course the first thing i did when i got back was go out and test it. i'm sure you're all wondering, yes i compared it to the HF $50 helmet.

here's what i found. the SG has many more adjustments to fit the helmet to your head than the HF one. i know, there are only so many ways to tighten the helmet on your head, but two features i found worthwhile on the SG were the ability to set the helmet forward or back on your head via the side mounting points on the headband. on some helmets when they are closed it feels like the helmet is resting on my nose or chin or about 1mm from my eyes. on the SG you can move the helmet forward to prevent this. i thought this was a nice feature. even more important though, the SG helmet has a setting so the helmet will only flip down to a certain point when closed. on every welding helmet or faceshield i have ever used the thing i find most annoying is that they all flop too far down for me and either hit my neck, or chin, or the viewing window is too low, or some other issue that could be solved if the helmet only went so far down and stayed there. the SG has a stop that you can adjust so it will only flip down so far and no further. i'm not saying this feature is worth $100 more than the HF helmet, but i'd gladly pay an extra $30 for it if i'm going to be wearing the helmet all the time.

regarding the actual operation of the helmet, the SG has a slightly larger viewing window than the HF helmet. it isn't one of those 4"x4" windows, but it is close to 1.5x the size of the HF window. the response time was lightning quick (but my HF helmet has been acting up for a while so i'm sure when the batteries were working it was about as fast as the SG). last but not least, the window in the SG is about 1000x clearer and sharper than the HF helmet. and i'm not just talking about the HF helmet being dirty, the SG is crystal clear. i can't really describe it as "brighter", since its purpose is to make things dark, but it is definitely a different type of shading. most welding helmets i have used have a noticeable green tint, there is very little green to the tint of the SG window, both in normal viewing and in darkened mode. in fact there really isn't any tint, it is just gets darker. i do not know how else to describe it.

the SG 100V takes two lithium batteries, and there is no solar charging function. the rated lifetime of the batteries is 1500 hours, and they are easily replaced, unlike the HF welded-in cells. i really hate leaving the welding helmets laying out in my shop because everything gets covered with dust. i am sure this probably was the reason the cells died in my HF helmet, so the lack of solar charging really is not considered a downside to me.

all in all i'd say the SG 100V was worth the $150 compared to the HF $50. i do a fair amount of welding though, and i have many more welding projects i'm working on. if all you do is tack a few things together once or twice a year, the HF helmet is probably as good as any. just make sure to leave it in the sun so the batteries don't fail. :)

andy b.

[radkins]

That SG helmet is FAR better than the HF one in every respect and you are going to be very happy with it, however before chunking that HF helmet into the trash set it under a bright light for a couple of days because it takes a long time to charge those batteries from dead- a few minutes simply won't do it. As long as a helmet is used regularly or left exposed to even normal shop light the batteries will last many years and probably never need replacement so because of that most helmets have batteries of the non-replaceable type, not just the HF models. Soldering in new batteries is quite simple and inexpensive and it sounds as if that is all that one needs, I keep an old helmet around for tight work in dirty places and cramped overhead welds to prevent damage/abuse of my expensive Jackson and for that the HF model is perfect! :)

[andy_b]

don't worry, i'm too much of a packrat to toss the HF helmet just yet. i will say though that it has been sitting in a window that gets lots of sun since 22-SEP-09, so if after almost three weeks of charging it will only hold a charge for about five minutes, the cells are probably shot. my plan is to attempt a replacement, and if i do something terrible with my mediocre soldering skills at least i still have the fancy new SG helmet. :)

i have the SG helmet sitting in the house at my computer desk and every time i look at it i just want to go outside and weld something.

andy b.

[jacampb2]

That SG helmet is FAR better than the HF one in every respect and you are going to be very happy with it, however before chunking that HF helmet into the trash set it under a bright light for a couple of days because it takes a long time to charge those batteries from dead


The "non serviceable" batteries in these things are lithium coin size watch batteries. You could leave it in the sun for a f-ing year and they are not going to recharge. Whoever started this "myth" should be beat with a stick. I hear it all the time, and it is simply not true. Also, the one about not storing them in a dark place? Also BS, if there is enough light to trigger the lens, and not enough light to maintain it's state via the solar cell, then the batteries will maintain it and go dead faster.

Believe it or not, the Optrel satellite falls in this group w/ non serviceable batteries. My 8 year old satellite quit after about 5 years. I tried leaving it in the sun like everyone said, didn't do squat. I then opened the cartridge to see if I could replace the "assumed" rechargeable batteries, and low and behold, two 3v lithium coin cells in there. To make it worse, Optrel pots the cartridge in epoxy, so I had to destroy it to find out. After a long battle with them they replaced my cartridge for free, because I pointed out to them that all of their literature claimed there were "no batteries to go bad" and that the cart was powered directly from the arc.

Anyhow, I have an Satellite, speedglass and Miller "elite". The satellite is by far my favorite helmet even with it's downfalls. I am now very careful to keep the cart dark all the time, we'll see how long this one lasts.

If you do some research, you will find that virtually all the "solar powered" cartridges out there, from the cheapest to the most expensive, use lithium coin cells to provide the initial current required to shade the lens. You simply can't recharge a coin cell.

Later,
Jason

[radkins]

Whoever started this "myth" should be beat with a stick.
Jason


Two things, first "Whoever started this myth" in the first place was the manufacturer's instructions and second I have resurrected my old one from "dead" not once but twice! The manual plainly stated not to store the helmet in a dark place for extended periods and that if this does happen the lens unit (they obviously were referring to batteries here) could, as they put it, be "recovered" by exposure of the power elements (solar cells) to light. It may be BS but it is is done all the time, certainly the batteries can and do wear out as they appear to have done here but this is not the myth you seem to think it is. I have been using these things since the first Jacksons came out around 25 years ago and I have seen solar powered helmets revived after being stored in darkness more than once, like I said it may be BS but it often works.

[form_change]

Another thing to check when comparing helmets is the change time. My Miller is better than 1/20,000 (from memory), but some of the cheapies are 1/10,000 or worse. I wore a cheapy for a while once and at the end of the day my eyes were getting sore. That seems to be the main technical difference between the expensive and cheaper helmets. Go for the fastest change time you can afford - much nicer to use

[cryptrx]

That seems to be the main technical difference between the expensive and cheaper helmets. Go for the fastest change time you can afford - much nicer to use


Harbor Freight

Adjustable Shade Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet

Superior auto-darkening lens for arc, MIG or TIG welding.

* Darkens from shade #4 to #9-#13 in 1/20,000 of a second
* Solar powered




ITEM 46092-6VGA

- Bill

[radkins]

Another thing to check when comparing helmets is the change time. My Miller is better than 1/20,000 (from memory), but some of the cheapies are 1/10,000 or worse. I wore a cheapy for a while once and at the end of the day my eyes were getting sore. That seems to be the main technical difference between the expensive and cheaper helmets. Go for the fastest change time you can afford - much nicer to use


If your eyes were getting "sore" it was probably from the smoke because the time to switch difference makes exactly ZERO difference in UV/IR exposure! How come after over twenty years these old myths still persist? They are myths, the UV/IR protection is the same whether the lens is dark or light and the difference between 1/20,000 and 1/10,000 in the visible spectrum is not detectable and will do no harm anyway, especially through the shaded lens even in the lightened phase. Believe what you like but the reaction time has nothing to do with UV/IR protection because that is taken care of before the rays even reach that portion of the lens.

[form_change]

I'd always thought that a faster change time meant less of the arc flash got through. I realise that the UV and IR do get filtered. It was a while ago but I think there was an industrial welding fume extractor going at the time so smoke would not have been an issue. As a rule I try to keep my head out of the fumes anyway.
If the suggestion is that transition time does not matter and this argument is extended, then a helment that takes seconds to switch or doesn't even switch at all is acceptable. No more flat batteries to worry about!

On reflection, I'm not buying that. It does not explain why more expensive helmets have faster change times (or at least they did some years back when I was buying). The suggestion that these large welding supply companies don't know what they are talking about does not match what I see out there.

[radkins]

I'd always thought that a faster change time meant less of the arc flash got through. I realise that the UV and IR do get filtered. It was a while ago but I think there was an industrial welding fume extractor going at the time so smoke would not have been an issue. As a rule I try to keep my head out of the fumes anyway.
[
On reflection, I'm not buying that. It does not explain why more expensive helmets have faster change times (or at least they did some years back when I was buying). The suggestion that these large welding supply companies don't know what they are talking about does not match what I see out there.



No one said the welding supply companies don't know what they are talking about and if you check with them then THEY TOO will tell you that the lens change is not what blocks the UV/IR rays. As far as,

"If the suggestion is that transition time does not matter and this argument is extended, then a helment that takes seconds to switch or doesn't even switch at all is acceptable. No more flat batteries to worry about!",

then no, believe it or not it does not matter whether the lens switches or not for the UV/IR protection and no you would not burn your eyes if it fails to switch. Certainly if the lens had completely failed and you continued to weld you would have problems from the bright light in short order but this is not the same thing as UV/IR exposure and would be no different than looking at a bright light bulb, you could hurt yourself by doing that long enough but who in their right mind would do such a thing? Believe what you like but the switching time has nothing to do with harmful rays exposure because these rays are blocked by the lens material before they even reach the part of the lens that goes dark, any light passing the lens into the inside of the helmet and reaching your eyes will be devoid of harmful levels of UV/IR whether the lens switches or not!

Back years ago when these darn things first came out it seems they were a hard sell for the manufacturers so sales reps had their work cut out for them trying to convince people they were safe. I saw the first demonstration back in the early 80's by a sales rep that the amount of UV/IR exposure to the eyes is the same regardless of the lens being light or dark, the switching lens filters the visible light spectrum and the UV/IR has already been blocked at that point.

[Black Forest]

No disrespect Radkins but I think you have missed some of the point. You are comparing apples to oranges. The filter works regardless of the lens darkening or not that I agree with. BUT the speed of the darkening has much to do with the comfort and eye strain. Just as you say you could hurt your eyes looking at a normal light bulb. The intensity of the flash will damage your eyes and it has nothing to do with the IR and UV. It is a mechanical function of the eyes. No different if you are in the dark and someone turns on a bright light, it bothers your eyes. They need time to adjust. A flash is exponentially worse. And it will damage your eyes and have nothing to do with UV or IR. Fast darkening is good. Faster the better for safety and comfort. A fast darkening helmet at the end of a long day of welding will make a big difference in eye fatigue.

[radkins]

Actually I had considered this also and that too was addressed long ago. There simply is no discernible difference between 1/10,000 and 1/20,000, much slower than 1/10,000 and there might be some discomfort problems. This was discussed about as much as the UV/IR problem and as the factory rep put it "It not only has to meet federal standards which mandate a significant safety margin but even worse it has to convince the company lawyers"! Bottom line is that if there were any problems with the 1/10,000 switching rate the product liability and workers comp lawyers would sue these things off the market faster than either one could switch from light to dark! We were told that testing showed that no problems would be encountered until the rate dropped as low as 1/5000 and even then we are talking about minor eye fatigue from use in a production setting. Sure 1/20,000 is obviously better, I am not saying it is not, but 1/10,000 is well within the margins of both safety and comfort and a helmet with a 1/10,000 switching rate is not going to cause "sore eyes" at the end of a work shift. As far as which helmet to buy, that depends on what the person will do with it. If it is to be used in a professional full time setting then by all means spend the money on a good helmet which will not only have more reliable electronics but also a much better quality and more comfortable headgear. This does not mean however that the lower priced helmets are less safe, they are not, and they are just fine for hobby and light production work. Even there safety still is not the limiting factor, durability and comfort could be a big concern however. A poorly fitting headgear can cause all sorts of discomfort problems when used for long periods and certainly parts breaking could cause major work problems in a professional setting. The cheap Harbor Freight helmets are just fine from a safety standpoint and will not hurt your eyes, there are literally hundreds of thousands of these things out there in all kinds of settings and the reviews from people who use them are overwhelmingly positive.