Comparing gas tank leases via USA? prices?

[Dawai]

My time is up again to renew a lease.. Seems I paid like $220 for both tanks for 5 years. I have four large tanks though them.

Problems? well AIRGAS bought out Linde, who bought out Holox, who bought out a smaller supplier. I know nobody on the counter anymore.

THEY WANT $90 a year per cylinder. I think that is insane. THEY doubled the price of Argon refills after Airgas bought them out.

[gnm109]

Hi,

I don't know what town you are in, but I agree completely - $90 per year per tank...cough, cough....as one biker to another, that's insane!!!!!

30 years ago when I moved to Sacramento, I brought with me a set of NCG medium Oxy-Acetylene tanks that I had from Los. Angeles. NCG was either out of business or had no outlet so I found a small Mom and Pop place that would exchange them for me. Several years later, they got bought out by Moore. Then Moore was bought out by Sierra. Then it becamse Sierra-Airgas and later on, Airgas so I know what you mean.

It's possible that Airgas will eventually own the entire welding world.

In any case, I bit my lip about 20 years ago and bought a spare Argon cylinder (160 cu. ft) from AirGas to go with one that came with my Lincoln Welder. They nicked me $200 full but I don't have to pay anything ever again for rent, lease, hydro or coffee.

About 3 years ago, I got a Lincoln MIG and I bought a 20 pound C02 bottle to go with it. They nicked me $150 for that one.

What I'm trying to say is, if they sell the tanks wherever you live, you really should just pony up and buy the durn things.

I now have:
1 Oxygen @ 100cu ft?
1 Acetylene @ 80 cu. ft
2 Argon @ 160 cu. ft. ea.
1 C02 @ 20 pounds.

I pay no rent on any of them. I just pay for gas exchange and that's that. I would go nuts if I had to pay rent or lease. I hope you can get a buy out because it will save you a lot of money in the future.


My 2 cents.

[Tinkerer]

Dave I know what you mean I've been dealing with the same Welding supply since 1985 they had been locally owned since the 50's till last year when General bought them out. Then three months later General was took over by Valley National Gas. I guess welding/gasses acquisitions must of been a hot button or something. Anyway... I bought my tanks out right back in the day when Gen. took over they tried to charge me like a years back rent on tanks that I owned. I just get that worked out then BANG Valley does the same thing been a friggin nightmare trying to get things straight with them... make a purchase and pay and they still send a bill saying you owe... with charges to boot. Least a few of the old staff is there as well as the old owner who is so fed up with the BS Valley says it's a computer glitch I think it a tactic send bills and hope the companies just pay them. Another line of BS is their new Hazmat Charge... the damn policies state right in it that it's just an added fee that they put on that they get to keep and is not really required but you have to pay it cause the Gov. said they can charge one even if none apply. What BS. :mad:

I'd say see about a out right purchase if you can... keep a eye on craigslist for tanks with title and snag them up... hell we pay for the gas we consume they should give use the use of the tank with a refundable despots. I think a 25 cf tank was like 225 bought owned filled out the door or leases was about the same as you stated plus fill charge and a sum other charges tacted on... I was glade to have paid for my tanks when I did after hearing that.

Good luck

[Dawai]

I've gave away Selox tanks. Nobody would fill them. A buddy has to get out his California Title on his tanks everytime he fills his. It was so wore out you could not read it.

I found tanks for $100 per 5 years, gas is cheaper than Airgas too.. Argon is about half priced the last two fillups.

It is a HOME health care (named HHC) place that rent oxygen tanks for home.. also has welding gases. I buy about sixty to 100 lbs welding rods a year, about four to six fillups per year. I am not a big fish.
With a savings of $1600 per five years I will continue to be a surviving LIVE SMALL FISH thou.. THIS same place (Airgas), Linde, Holox,Southern welding supply, previous name?? I forget I don't know anyone at the counter anymore.. Nobody to laugh and joke with.. they look at me with "bug" eyes each time I go in and watch me like I going to steal something.. Fk_Em..

One lease runs out 4/31/09.. another in ?/?/10, and another ?/?/11... so.. unless I bite the bullet and swap them all over..

I have been in five industrial stores today, each of them treated me like I was scum of the earth, all of them took my money thou.. I went by my union hall and signed the book, they treated me with disrespect also.

Somedays.. I have been trying to be happy today, it is our 5th year wedding anniversary?? I think we have been together 7 or 8 years now or??? 9 or 10?? it took her a few years to get a ring out of me.

[ahidley]

I have never seen or heard of a "title" for a tank. Here in Penn we just get a purchase reciept. Just like a hamburger at wendys. Anybody care to explaine?

[Dawai]

The tanks had a title like a car.

I found out nobody here sells tanks except the small ones. I gave away two of them about a year back.

[ckalley]

I just renewed my lease with ABCO - by the time you get done with the tax and the "Cylider Compliance" charge I think it cost me around $180 for 3 cylinders on a 1 year lease - Oxygen, Act, and a C25 for the MIG. At least they are right here in town, so I don't have to run all over the countryside. I also have one of the small C25 cylinders that I own. They just swap it for a full one when it comes time for a refill. Around here most all of the old-time independent welding supplys have been bought up by either AirGas or ABCO

When I lived up in Pepperell, Mass, the only welding supplier I could find that was close was in Hudson, NH. Thier prices and lease weren't too bad, as I remeber. At one point it was like they went crazy. They kept sending bills for the lease, I kept calling them to tell them that I had already paid them. That went on for several months and the next thing you know the office manager isn't there anymore!

Craig

[gnm109]

This tank rental thing sounds like the UK. Over there, I understand that you can't buy your tanks. Someone has a monopoly and you have to pay big
rent every year.

I wouldn't rent tanks. I've also never heard of a title for them. That wouldn't work with Airgas since they never write down the serial numbers on the tanks. you get different tanks every time. The only good thing is they have never asked me to prove anything. There's no hassle. They just charge high prices on their gas.

It sounds like you people that rent tanks are getting screwed, blued and tattooed.

[Tinkerer]

Tank Title gives me the right to sell to a person or transfer my tanks to any supplier in whatever state. There are no numbers taken down. I swap them for full tanks when needed. The title is to show I own a tank of X size and it's not stolen from Y place. ;)

[gnm109]

Tank Title gives me the right to sell to a person or transfer my tanks to any supplier in whatever state. There are no numbers taken down. I swap them for full tanks when needed. The title is to show I own a tank of X size and it's not stolen from Y place. ;)


If you have a formal document called a "tank title" that's good. The only problem with such a document is that it should probably have serial numbers for tanks that you no longer have in your possession. I'm assuming that you trade them in for full ones like most people do. If it doesn't describe the tanks you own by serial number, then it's no more useful than a bill of sale.

Airgas, where I got my Argon and C02 tanks, doesn't give out tank titles. They don't even look at my tanks to record serial numbers when I return them. They just roll them into the back room and bring out some full ones.

A bill of sale would be sufficient protection for a person who buys your tanks.

[Tinkerer]

If you have a formal document called a "tank title" that's good. The only problem with such a document is that it should probably have serial numbers for tanks that you no longer have in your possession. I'm assuming that you trade them in for full ones like most people do. If it doesn't describe the tanks you own by serial number, then it's no more useful than a bill of sale.

Airgas, where I got my Argon and C02 tanks, doesn't give out tank titles. They don't even look at my tanks to record serial numbers when I return them. They just roll them into the back room and bring out some full ones.

A bill of sale would be sufficient protection for a person who buys your tanks.
Well I'd have to had the wife dig 'em out as it's been over 20 plus years since I looked at them... I do know this I've not had to pay a nickels rent on my tanks. And I do know that they are transferable. And I also know this... times have changes since I bought them.

I can remember some time back a fella got pinched for having stolen tanks... his piece of paper he had scribbled on did not hold water. See if I purchase a tank with title I go to the weld supply and they transfer title to me so it's more then a BoS.

[pressurerelief]

You only need a bill of sale to make it legal. Gas cylinders are regulated by the DOT. The DOT by law only authorizes the "owner" to refill a cylinder. You can not take X companies cylinder to Company Y for a refill at a better price. It happens but is not legal. The gas companies use this fact to control pricing and do not like to sell larger cylinders since you can then price shop if you are the owner.

The law that all this falls under is "49 CFR 173.301 - 309" if you want to google it

There has been a large consolidation going on in the gas distribution chain and this is going to push up prices as some have noted.

P/R

[Tinkerer]

You only need a bill of sale to make it legal. Gas cylinders are regulated by the DOT. The DOT by law only authorizes the "owner" to refill a cylinder. You can not take X companies cylinder to Company Y for a refill at a better price. It happens but is not legal. The gas companies use this fact to control pricing and do not like to sell larger cylinders since you can then price shop if you are the owner.

The law that all this falls under is "49 CFR 173.301 - 309" if you want to google it

There has been a large consolidation going on in the gas distribution chain and this is going to push up prices as some have noted.

P/R And by having TITLE to the tank I am the owner and being such I can shop around if I so choose. Holding a lease allows you to use THEIR property under strict terms. Trust me if they could claw back ownership I'm sure they would.

[George Hodge]

I've owned a title to set of large oxy/acet.cylinders for 53yrs. and have very seldom ever had to bring the paperwork with me to get cylinders exchanged.I've never had to have the cylinders tested and some times it will be 5yrs before I exchange them. My title says I own a set of Linde cylinders,of a certain size. We've lived in 3 different states since I bought them.
Dave Cofer,I'm glad that you sound like you're feeling better and congratulations on #5!!! The wife and I celebrated #52 last December.Also thanks for selling me those diodes! I reworked my Lincoln buzz box so that I now have AC/DC. Love it!!
Can't imagine how much demurage I would of paid on these cylinders in 53 years!!!
George

[mark61]

I have never seen or heard of a "title" for a tank. Here in Penn we just get a purchase reciept. Just like a hamburger at wendys. Anybody care to explaine?



And if you read the fine print on the back it says "Life time lease" which does NOT mean you OWN them! They CAN demand them back! I have seen it happen at auctions. Scam after scam just screwing those of us who can/do not pass the charges on to someone else!.

mark61

[gnm109]

And if you read the fine print on the back it says "Life time lease" which does NOT mean you OWN them! They CAN demand them back! I have seen it happen at auctions. Scam after scam just screwing those of us who can/do not pass the charges on to someone else!.

mark61


I bought my tanks outright and got a receipt which is a bill of sale. Thats the same as a "tank title" although I never heard that term before.

There are also 99 year leases. That's different from an outright purchase.

There are also rentals for a year, month or whatever. If you have a lifetime lease, they would not be able to ask for the tanks to be returned during your lfetime, would they? The lifetime lease is only an accountant's trick. You have the tanks and keep them with no rent and only bring them back for refills.

The welding gas company technically still owns them so they get to depreciate them on their income tax. No big deal. 99 year or lifetime lease is the same as ownership as far as the user is concerned.

In my case, I own all my tanks since that's the way I got them. It's all good.

[ahidley]

FWIW. There was a gas company up here and it went out of buisness. Because of that they recalled all leased tanks and they had to be returned. I dont know what happened with the purchased gas that was in the tanks.

[gnm109]

FWIW. There was a gas company up here and it went out of buisness. Because of that they recalled all leased tanks and they had to be returned. I dont know what happened with the purchased gas that was in the tanks.


That's interesting since a lease is nothing more nor less than a contract to use something for a period of time. The mere fact that the company went out of business would not invaluidate the leases. The liquidators would have to consider the rights of the many lessees since the gas in them is owned by the user.

A company such as Airgas, for example, has many tens of thousands of tanks out in the trade. Good luck finding them all if they ever went out of business. LOL.

[Dawai]

Yes, nobody could find the terms of the lease there at Airgas for my tanks that came from two owners ago, Holox, Linde, now airgas.

I think I am going to HHC with my business. I have been waiting on Charlie at Airgas to call me back now for three weeks. Come the end of the month, I'll return the oxy-acty tanks to them.

Yes, I will get a reciept. They ain't got a clue what is going on and probably paid for the hour instead of doing a job right.

[PTSideshow]

The way it is going there will only be Airgas and Praxair in a couple years.
I don't know if it is a DOT reg nor not but there is a thing around here that you can't have another company's tank on your property if you are a LWS.

One old timer said it had to do with the tank wars from the old days around here. As some of the companies were taking in the other guy's tanks and keeping them empty at the plant. So the competition would be short on refilling tanks. Don't know if it was true or a bed time story.

I do know that Airgas has a 12 page list with 25 to 35 names per page of companies that all the welding companies they have bought out and the ones they have bought out that they accept for refills. And it is good in any state, but since there are 12 sales regions for Airgas. The policies can be different as long as they fall in line with corporate.

I do know with Craigslist and the other venues, that sell stuff theft of rental/lease cylinders has become a bigger problem. Now with the economy going down it is rising.

The local counter guy I have been dealing with for 25 years. Said more people with out a clue about how tanks work are coming in with the same story. Bought a rig on Craiglist!

The other problem is if its a company owned tank/rental/lease the number is in the computer. And your name isn't on the lease it could be considered to be holding stolen property. They will hold the tanks, since it is their property. If it isn't their tank the party has a problem disposing of the acetylene tank, due to the acetone and the filler,is hazardous waste.

[Jim Caudill]

Down here, it is really simple: all tanks up to a certain size are privately owned, all larger tanks are leased. You cannot buy a larger tank and you cannot lease a smaller one, period.

Airgas will swap out any of my owned tanks except one I purchased from Valley National Gases, they say that one must go back to Valley. The transition point from small to large varies with the type of tank. For high pressure tanks (oxy, argon, helium, etc) it is the size that I can barely wrestle up into the truck (I'm 6ft & 260lbs) that must be leased. I think these are 330cu ft. Most of my owned, high-pressure tanks are 80cu ft.

[gnm109]

Down here, it is really simple: all tanks up to a certain size are privately owned, all larger tanks are leased. You cannot buy a larger tank and you cannot lease a smaller one, period.

Airgas will swap out any of my owned tanks except one I purchased from Valley National Gases, they say that one must go back to Valley. The transition point from small to large varies with the type of tank. For high pressure tanks (oxy, argon, helium, etc) it is the size that I can barely wrestle up into the truck (I'm 6ft & 260lbs) that must be leased. I think these are 330cu ft. Most of my owned, high-pressure tanks are 80cu ft.


The Airgas in Sacramento has 160 cu. ft. high pressure tanks that they sell. They are stamped "Customer Owned" on the upper riim just below the nozzle. They also sell the C02 20 pound tanks among others.

[Dawai]

You know of course Charlie from Airgas was supposed to call me Monday.. Today is Wednesday. This has been three weeks. Is he that busy?

I admit, The billing company sent me bills from several outlets at once for the same items. A small company who can't keep track of purchases would have paid all of them. I went down there and got verbal with them.

With today's violence, people shooting places up for no reason? They don't know I might poke a few in the eye, but would never shoot a place up. I can see why thou they might not want my lil bit of business.

[Alguy]

I live up the road from JimCaudill about 30 mi. i own mine they are smaller tanks. Where the tanks were purchased went out of business and another local shop fills them ,usually i drop off a tank then pick up another. Gas prices have gone up dramatically.......:(

[G1K]

FWIW, I leased an argon tank (I think it's a 40, not too sure of the designation), it's about 3.5 feet tall..

Anyway, $100 for a ten year lease. $20 to swap for a full one. It was from Rodger's Welding supply who has a few locations in Buffalo NY. They were just recently bought out by Praxair. My rate for exchange just went up a few cents, but after tax, haxmat etc it was still under $22.

Sounds like I'm good good compared to some of these other posts...

R

[Jeffw5555]

I don't understand all the confusion about "rented" vs "owned" tanks. It is really simple. If the tank has a company's name either stamped or in raised letters around the upper face just under the valve, then it is a lease tank. If there is no name, then it is a customer-owned tank. I've lived in several states over the last 50 years, have never heard of tank titles, and have never had an issue with my owned tanks getting them filled. I have a 125 cu ft 75/25 Ar/CO2 mix for MIG, a 125 cu Ft for TIG, a 330 cu ft Helium, and a small oxy/acetylene set with the bottles about 3 foot high, whatever size those are. Since I moved to Indianapolis, I just bring in the old tanks to Airgas and they just swap them out. Only exception was the 330 Helium; last time I needed it filled, they would only fill it which took a week.

I bought a summer house in Kentucky 5 years ago that came with several large Oxy bottles in the garage, with some strange names on the rim. I tracked one company down, called them up (in Louisville) and asked them about it. They said it was theirs; could I bring it in. I said no, come get it if you want it. They said no. They still sit in the garage. :rolleyes:

[Dawai]

Heard:

If the fire department comes into your shop fighting a fire and sees a oxygen, acteylene bottle they back off to a safe distance and let it burn.

A very good reason to send back unwanted tanks.

[dp]

I just spent an hour I'll never get back searching via Google for what it will cost me to add argon/co2 to my Lincoln welder. I can tell you precisely what it will cost in the UK, OZ, and the Lesser Antilles, but not Seattle. The vendors have "Call for price" and so screw them, I won't call for a price, that's what the web site is for. Except I can't find one that has the magic $$$ info :)

Assuming I was born with a lifetime supply of empty argon/co2 bottles at my disposal, does anyone know that it will cost to fill one? I'm not interested in the little 20cf bottles as that's barely enough time to figure out what I'm doing wrong with no time left to get the job done. I'm actually trying to get to a cost/hour to use gas including argon mix and pure co2.

And I'm wondering if CO2 on a 175A mig is worth while or even better than choosing a good wire. Will be welding steel.

I should probably have started a new thread but I'm hacked off :) and short on time, but is there ever an appropriate time to use only CO2 with a light MIG welder such as mine (HD 175)?

[gnm109]

I just spent an hour I'll never get back searching via Google for what it will cost me to add argon/co2 to my Lincoln welder. I can tell you precisely what it will cost in the UK, OZ, and the Lesser Antilles, but not Seattle. The vendors have "Call for price" and so screw them, I won't call for a price, that's what the web site is for. Except I can't find one that has the magic $$$ info :)

Assuming I was born with a lifetime supply of empty argon/co2 bottles at my disposal, does anyone know that it will cost to fill one? I'm not interested in the little 20cf bottles as that's barely enough time to figure out what I'm doing wrong with no time left to get the job done. I'm actually trying to get to a cost/hour to use gas including argon mix and pure co2.

And I'm wondering if CO2 on a 175A mig is worth while or even better than choosing a good wire. Will be welding steel.

I should probably have started a new thread but I'm hacked off :) and short on time, but is there ever an appropriate time to use only CO2 with a light MIG welder such as mine (HD 175)?


I use C02 on my Lincoln SP 175 Plus. It does an outstanding job. It's about $23.00 for a 20 # tank exchange. 20 # is approximately equivalant to 160 cu. ft of gas.

[Jim Caudill]

An 80cuft Argon/CO2 fill cost me around $40 last time I had it done. For comparison, a 125cuft Oxygen costs around $20 to fill.