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View Full Version : OT-41 Ford Dshaft removal.



Mcostello
04-21-2009, 10:10 PM
Have a friend that wants to remove a closed type drive shaft from said car. How do you go about it. I have no time to help on this one, just typing. He is worried that the whole thing will fall on him or self disassemble in front of him.Hate it when that happens!

PSD KEN
04-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Basically you have to jack car up, loosen rear spring from frame,(or spring ends from rear end) disconnect front U-joint and roll diff, torque tube to the rear.

A stout tree limb works great for holding up the car.

I have not done one since 1954 so details are a bit foggy!

Actually they are pretty simple to work on.

Another thing; if changing a water pump there is a bolt in the water outlet.

Added in edit: I think the springs are unbolted at the axle tubes, so raise car til. the load is off springs, remove bolts, then raise car until you have room to roll diff to the rear.

doctor demo
04-21-2009, 10:51 PM
I can't help on this one , but I think rear end and drive shaft have to be removed as one unit first from trany then tube can be removed from rear end.
To many years since last one.
I'll try to look for an old Motors Manual if no one else can help.

Steve

saltmine
04-21-2009, 11:33 PM
Old flatraters would shove the rearend back just far enough to slip the yoke out, in order to replace a clutch or repair a transmission. Most of the time it was to get the U-joint out to replace the trunnion bearings in it. (yeah, they used to rebuild almost everything in the "olden days") Nobody had "VatoZone" run a new U-joint over... Of course, an honest Mechanic would pull the whole rearend...that's the "right way" and you didn't take a chance on getting clobbered by the thing should the cable or jack slip. Yes, most shops had a sturdy tree nearby, My 'ol man's shop had a giant Cottonwood around back.
Far as I know, that Cottonwood is still there. And it's not a "shadetree"

That's one issue I have with these kids who call themselves "Technicians"...
They're just glorified parts changers.

I was a MECHANIC. We REPAIRED cars. We understood every nut & bolt in a car, and knew how it was supposed to work. We rebuilt almost everything. Starters, alternators, fuel pumps, engines, transmissions, power steering pumps, steering boxes, waterpumps, A/C compressors, power brake boosters, you name it...almost everything WAS rebuildable. These kids today have it easy. They will tell you, " It's cheaper to replace that A/C compressor than it is to rebuild it" ...Uh....Let me translate that for you: "I haven't the faintest idea how to take it apart, so lets sell him a new one."
Mechanics knew how to rebuild wheel cylinders. and front ends. They also knew how to machine drums & rotors, and reface flywheels. We ground valves and resurfaced cylinder heads, honed cylinders, and fitted pistons and engine bearings. Even painted parts on occasion.
I used to get insulted when somebody referred to me as a "technician"..

gnm109
04-21-2009, 11:39 PM
I owned a 1941 Ford Convertible ( Ford Model 11A) for nearly 20 years. I removed the rear end several times to get at the transmission and clutch. .

The floor pan is first removed, exposing the transmission and the front U-joint housing. Two bolts, one on each side are removed from the housing and the housing cover halves removed, exposing the front U-joint.

Then, the vehicle is jacked up and firmly blocked with the rear wheels several inches off of the ground after chocking the front wheels. The rear hand brake cable clevis is removed permitting the cable to come off with the whole unit. Thehydraulic brake line is also removed at this time permitting the brake fluid to make a large pool of fluid on the floor....unless you plug it. LOL.

There are two large U-Bolts (four large nuts) holding the center of the rear buggy spring to the rear cross member that runs across the frame. These are loosened with a floor jack supporting the center of the rear end assembly. Once the center bolts are undone, the rear end can be lowered. Once the wneels touch the ground the rear end can be rolled back to free the torque tube fron the area where it passes through the center cross member. If the car is high enough, the whole assembly can be pulled out to one side otherwise you may have to raise it further. Unless further disassembly is needed, the spring may be left on the rear end.

If you only need to remove the transmission perhaps to change the clutch and throwout bearing, it's not necessary to take the whole rear end out. It can just be rolled back a foot or so and left there until you are through with the transmission. To remove the transmission, the engine must be blocked up at the rear so that it will come up when the rear motor/transmission mount is removed.

The actual drive shaft is inside of the torque tube cover. There is a large bolt holding the two wishbone braces to the torque tube. When that is out, the bolts holding the torque tube to the front of the carrier housing (Ring and Pinion carrier) are removed and the tube will slide off, exposing the splined joint that connects the drive shaft to the pinion gear. IIRC, there is a pin that holds the shaft to the tube.....it's been a few years but that's the way I recall it.

You haven't lived until you've done this outside on the snow at 2:00 a.m. with only a drop cord and a few old tools so you could go to work the next morning.

No charge for this superb technical exposition. LOL.

chief
04-22-2009, 05:51 AM
Saltmine,
You are a man after my own heart.

gnm109,

"You haven't lived until you've done this outside on the snow at 2:00 a.m. with only a drop cord and a few old tools so you could go to work the next morning."

I was having a good day until you dredged that, up, I played that game five or six times but my dad did it on a weekly basis. The good old days weren't always good.

gnm109
04-22-2009, 06:07 AM
Saltmine,
You are a man after my own heart.

gnm109,

"You haven't lived until you've done this outside on the snow at 2:00 a.m. with only a drop cord and a few old tools so you could go to work the next morning."

I was having a good day until you dredged that, up, I played that game five or six times but my dad did it on a weekly basis. The good old days weren't always good.


Well, the nice thing about those times was that you actually could fix your own car with minimal tools and some relatively inexpensive parts from the local auto store. Nowadays, working on cars has become an almost impossible chore.

Peter S
04-22-2009, 07:58 AM
My memory on this is possibly not trustworthy but I am pretty sure it is best to leave the springs attached to the diff, from memory you need a spring spreader to remove them from the diff. I have done this once or twice on a V8 and recall making a spring spreader from threaded rod and tube (with bits of flat steel welded on each end at an angle to locate on the spring). But my memory is so hazy I can't recall if the spreader was needed for the front or rear springs - I am guessing both.

Bill Pace
04-22-2009, 09:59 AM
These guys have described removal very well so I cant add any thing to that.... but, this sure does bring some memories to me also.

I was 16 in 1957 and was the proud owner of a 1948 Ford coupe (Basically identical to 41's) and Chevy had brought out the 283 engine that year. My favorite local wrecking yard got in an interior burned 57 Impala with 5000 mi on -- I jumped on the engine for $300 and cobbled it into the 48. Well, that little Ford tranny did not like all that power and my rather severe method of selecting 2nd gear and dumping the clutch at rather high rpms! Consequentially most Sat mornings for some 35-40 times I would drop the tranny and replace the 2nd/reverse gear and the cluster gear -- I could do it in 4 hours. Cost was a whopping $20.50 - at that same wrecking yard. The owner would see me coming in and ask "the usual?":rolleyes: Ahhh, those were the days ---

saltmine
04-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Reminds me of the '51 Ford, F-1 I used to own. It had a 371 Oldsmobile engine in it, coupled to an open driveshaft, top-shift Ford three-speed.
If I got the least bit heavy handed with the throttle, bang! there goes the countershaft. After using all of the rebuilding parts at the auto parts store I worked at, I was reduced to scouring the junk yards in the area for a replacement transmission. Every junkyard owner in the County knew me.
Most of the time, I would yank the transmission out, and replace it, right there in front of the junkyard, and tote the broken one back in and toss it on the scrap pile. I eventually sold the truck, and never saw it again.
It was replaced with a '56 Ford sedan....with a nine-bolt-sidecover...three-speed....Which, I might add, was as brittle as the old top-shift box, in the truck. Fortunately, all of the junkyard owners already knew me....

Hmmm, Why do they call them "wrecking yards" and "auto recycling centers" nowadays? After working on mostly late model cars before I retired, "junkyard" would be an accurate description.

gnm109
04-22-2009, 12:04 PM
The wrecking yard owners would get irate if you called them junk yards when I was chasing parts. Now they are called "Automotive Recycling Centers" Most fo them adhere to the rule of 50% of new price for used parts plus they want your old part.


Ultimately, I changed the old Ford Flathead for a new 1963 Chevrolet Corvetter 340 hp crate motor. I adapted it at first to the Ford transmission but that was a short-lived change because the transmissions simply weren't up to the task. Finally I installed a three-speed Corvette tranny to match the engine. Then I had to change to an open drive rear axle so I chose a 1951 Mercury Spicer unit. I had to cut and weld the spring mounts and bolt the springs to the frame since they were fore and aft rather than buggy styls. The stock '51 Merc driveshaft fit in with no changes and I drove the car that way for another 75,000 miles.

Those were indeed fun days and they taught me a great deal about welding, machining and mechanics in general.

Deja Vu
04-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Nowadays, working on cars has become an almost impossible chore.

Now, is that because of the engineering changes? .... or the mechanic's biological changes? :D ...just a small rib...

Actually, I've been making special tools(or buying) as times change and the situation requires when working on vehicles through the years.
but you're right, If you want to work on a "newer" model, you have to analyse fully what tools you will need and the procedure you will 'attempt" to facilitate the repair.

gnm109
04-22-2009, 12:50 PM
Now, is that because of the engineering changes? .... or the mechanic's biological changes? :D ...just a small rib...

Actually, I've been making special tools(or buying) as times change and the situation requires when working on vehicles through the years.
but you're right, If you want to work on a "newer" model, you have to analyse fully what tools you will need and the procedure you will 'attempt" to facilitate the repair.


Well, I'd have to say, perhaps a little of both - engineering versus biology. That said, my 1941 Ford had no computer or Engine Comtrol Module, no smog controls, no ABS sensors, no speed sensor, throttle position sensor, heat or other sensors and you could actually see the engine.

Times have changed.

saltmine
04-22-2009, 04:13 PM
My younger brother has the "best of both worlds"

He drives a 1935 Ford two-door sedan, with a 1998 Corvette 5.7L, LS-1 engine and transmission, nine inch Ford rearend, and four wheel disc brakes.
It took us five years to build it, but it was worth it. On the outside, it looks like a completely stock '35 sedan (even the hood fits) But underneath beats the heart of a Chevy Corvette. At the last "Rat Rod" meet at L.A.C.R. we ran it all day long on the dragstrip (low 13's) and then drove home gettin' 25mpg.
Yes, it's his "daily driver". His wife drives a 1931 Ford model "A" roadster pickup with a '51 flathead V-8(built by your's truly) and a Borg-Warner T-5 five speed transmission. Believe it or else, she built the whole car herself...except for the engine. My brother and I were around to offer help when she needed it....

Rookie machinist
04-22-2009, 07:37 PM
Saltmine you remind me of myself. Last job I had wrenching was a "Team Leader" at a Lexus dealer. I used to make my apprentices repair an old Chevy starter before they even touched a car. It had a bad contactor in the solenoid, all it took to fix was 15 minutes and cleaning the disk or removing the c-clip and flipping it. Only had one fix it in less than an hour. Most of the kids coming out of the tech schools thought they were the s&*t because they had a few ASE's and a diploma. Truth of the matter was most were barely qualified to change oil. I had one apprentice complain to human resources that I was treating him badly and was to harsh on him. He stripped 3 bolts in 3 days :mad: one when he installed a spark plug with my impact:mad: :eek: . As punishment I bought a piece of scap aluminim and drilled and tapped 30 holes in it. Next I cross threaded and stripped every one. Gave it to him and said he could not touch another car until all the holes were fixed. The auto repair industry is in a sad state of affairs most shops only have 1 or 2 guys who have the ability to diagnose and repair the rest just swap parts till it's fixed. Worst part of this is that most shops charge $90hr or more for this service.

Mcostello
04-22-2009, 11:10 PM
Thanks guys, information will get where needed. Sounds like a job is coming up. Never worked on one that old yet......