PDA

View Full Version : Let's talk about shop/home security



Patch
04-22-2009, 12:19 AM
Typical senario:

Economy is down the crapper. Lot of people out of work now and the latest reports are that burgleries have increased 10 fold. My neighbor up the road a piece was burgled in broad daylight. The sheriff said it's happening all over.

So what steps have you taken to secure your shop/tools/home?
Any good ideas you'd like to pass along.

Good show on a 500 pound dog and a S/W at your side.

dp
04-22-2009, 12:27 AM
Phone home burglar alarm service, freaking loud sirens, motion sensing hi-res video, software that calls my cell phone immediately, a 10mm Glock, and a sign on the porch that says Caution: my wife is a red-head and I'm not afraid to use her.

doctor demo
04-22-2009, 12:39 AM
a 10mm Glock,.


You aren't supposed to tell people what Your "drop" gun is. The Police are supposed to find it on the corpse.


Steve

gr8life
04-22-2009, 12:45 AM
I have passed along your concerns to the White House and I am sure they will attend to the matter promptly.

Tinkerer
04-22-2009, 01:10 AM
Get some crime scene tap and place a white body outline in the front yard maybe a little sign that says "Last SOB dropped HERE" ;). But seriously a good fence and good lights and a big dog will do wonders.

murph64
04-22-2009, 01:14 AM
An alarm system that even plays with the kids...What more can you ask for? :D


http://pics.montypics.com/mcduff/2009-04-21/1240377133_img_5078b.jpg

http://pics.montypics.com/mcduff/2009-04-21/1240377018_img_4920c.jpg


Andy

barts
04-22-2009, 01:49 AM
Any good ideas you'd like to pass along.


Support your local police & fire departments - pay your taxes, help them out by letting 'em know (and your neighbors) when you're out of town, and live in a diverse neighborhood - one w/ young people, retired folks, and working-age people. Know your neighbors, help them when you can and it will come back to you ten fold.

When I was in college, the fashionable folks lived in well-to-do (well, for 1980 young college types :-)) suburbs; I lived in a house in a trailer park. There was never anyone home during the day in the nice areas, so the riff-raff would have a field day, stealing stereos, bikes, etc. No one ever bugged us in the trailer park; there were always residents walking about, doing stuff; everyone knew their neighbors. I don't think we ever had any robberies in the 4 years we lived there, but everyone thought it was a sketchy place to live, since it wasn't all nice and new looking.

Dawai
04-22-2009, 02:00 AM
http://www.bbssystem.com/viewtopic.php?t=1414
Neighborhood watch literature from the meeting here.

I've shot the tire off a truck, held people for the police with a double barrel shotgun, been stolen from twice since then. It only takes one or two crappy families to screw up a neighborhood. I feel like a housewarming party, but try to act civilized.

http://www.bbssystem.com/pictures/preph.jpg


How to keep a thief out of your backyard? hang one in the front yard.

Your Old Dog
04-22-2009, 07:08 AM
Funny you mention this topic. I just had my burgalar alarm system out to the range yesterday for the first time and was very pleased with the results. I have a Colt Officers Model 45 in stainless with Pachmeyer grips. Put 100 rounds through it and kept them all on paper plate targets at 45 feet. I have the utmost confidence I can keep my tools on my property. My actual alarm system isn't for discussion on this board :D

Seastar
04-22-2009, 07:53 AM
I like your "metal" solutions - and I love dogs.
Neighbors are a very good solution.
However, that having been said, as a life long dedicated shooter and amateur gunsmith I believe that a pistol is only good for fighting your way to a rifle or shotgun- LOL
Bill

Evan
04-22-2009, 08:07 AM
360 pan capability via remote control, IR night vision that actually works.
There are more in undisclosed locations that are nearly impossible to find.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/security1.jpg

Night view of the driveway on IR only.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/security2.jpg

Tooth based security:

Beardog on duty on her guard tower:

http://ixian.ca/pics6/security3.jpg

Backup, mainly for appearance, 180 lbs and good subsonics.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/security4.jpg

Also, 2000 watts of remote controllable halogen floods, occasional laser ignition testing, occasional unannounced blasting, unidentifiable sounds from unidentifiable sources as well as inexplicable beams of light pointed at space at 3am.

Remaining capability is classified but extends beyond property lines.

tony ennis
04-22-2009, 08:17 AM
I find the boards' lack of concern and compassion for those less fortunate than us a little disturbing.

Evan
04-22-2009, 08:41 AM
The main criminal element here are drug dealers and their clients as well as a small but very active group of native youths that will never have to work for a living or pay for a house as long as the rest of us pay taxes. I find that rather disturbing and hold zero compassion for their "plight".

tony ennis
04-22-2009, 09:06 AM
/me Reels Evan in and throws him in the basket

Your Old Dog
04-22-2009, 09:07 AM
I find the boards' lack of concern and compassion for those less fortunate than us a little disturbing.

If you are hungry enough to steal my stuff then come ask me for it and I'll likly give it to you. Or, ask your church parishoners for some help. That's one of the big advantages of going to church and knowing your congregation.

If you mean we have no compassion for the guys who ask the question of how to protect your stuff I think you are wrong. My security would be easy to get around if you know what it was. I don't have big dollars invested in my system as it is, after all, a home shop. Suffice it to say if someone entered my shop in the middle of the night I'd know about immediately and silently. I don't believe in sirens except for when you are not home. I don't want the guy to know that I know he's there, I want to catch the guy who has his eye on my belongings so I don't have to worry about him tomorrow night.

firbikrhd1
04-22-2009, 09:10 AM
Ahhhhh, Finally an area where I can claim to be an expert! You see, my house has been broken into 3 times now, the first two times 8 days apart. My profession puts me at an extra disadvantage as I am away from home for 24 hours while at work and my schedule is very predictable.

After the first two break-ins, about 26 years ago when many things were stolen, I installed a burglar alarm, perimeter type, complete with interior traps (bedroom and closet doors that when opened set the alarm off should the thieves get around the perimeter alarm), steel doors on vulnerable/ hidden doorways and high value areas, and high quality locks with double cylinder dead bolts. I chained my fences shut while I'm away and found a way to very securely lock my garage door down. This way even if they get in they can't take things out through the garage door. It can't be opened from inside, just as the doors with the double cylinder deadbolts can't be opened from inside easily. This way they have but one way out, the way they came in. My alarm has loud sirens outside and inside as well. All the while they are in my home they have to deal with that screaming noise, something that is both unpleasant and will cause a paniced feeling. The alarm control is hidden away in a closet with solid door and locked with a deadbolt as well. I keep windows and doorways unobstructed by bushes and foliage so there are no hiding places for thieves and my neighbors keep an eye out while I'm away. (Be aware that your neighbors may also be the culprits in some cases, particularly teens). I also had a dog and best friend for 13 years but she finally passed on about 6 years ago. No doubt her presence was a deterrant for those 13 years.

Well, all this has worked well for the past 26 years but about 5 months ago, while I was on duty, my home was again burglarized (daylight hours). Things turned out differently this time though, when the scum bag made his attempt my neighbors and the UPS man heard the alarm, saw the culprit jump the fence to get away, they chased him down and caught him. Under Florida law he was guilty of a crime just by being in my yard since my gates were locked. The damage he did was pry marks on two doors and bending two window vent frames. He finally broke the glass, pushed through the screen setting off the alarm. With DNA evidence he left behind due to blood where he cut himself on the glass and with my neighbors and UPS man as witnesses he plead guilty. Now I am receiving restitution for the cost of repairs to my property and he is a convicted felon who has served time and probation. He should consider himself lucky, he could have done 15 years; further, had I been home asleep at the time resting after a difficult shift, my alarm would likely not have been set, I would have been awakened by his attempts to break in and he would never have made it to court.

Since this last incident I have added additional security lighting in areas that are not well lighted at night and signs stating I have an alarm.
One final thought, while alarms that are set off by motion or body heat are generally easier and less expensive to install, they let intruders get in before the alarm goes off. I can tell you from experience that it feels much better if the intruder never gets in your home. You feel violated when he does, probably much the way a woman feels after being raped. These people go through your personal effects, drawers, closets etc., and while they are looking for loot and don't give a hoot about your personal life, you still feel violated and exposed, for a long time afterwards.

Scum bags, reprobates, will be with us always, only more so during bad times. We have to do whatever it takes to protect ourselves the best we can, the police can't do it all.

Evan
04-22-2009, 09:10 AM
http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics/bait.jpg

tony ennis
04-22-2009, 09:14 AM
Heh, I don't dare stir the pot any more.

I have no sympathy for thieves. None. Nada.

Our home security is 5 yappy chihuahuas and an Australian Shepherd. The thing thieves like the least is attention. Well, and bullets.

Evan
04-22-2009, 09:20 AM
Physical security isn't worth squat here. None of my neighbours would think anything if they heard a chainsaw going in the middle of the day and that is all it takes to get through a wall. If you are in a hurry you can always just drive through the wall or garage door. It explains why you will see many business such as 7-11 with 2000 lb concrete barriers along the front of the building.

I don't bother to lock my house. It minimizes the damage. If somebody does burgle me while I am in town I'll knock out a window before calling about it.

2ManyHobbies
04-22-2009, 09:40 AM
Interior bars on any ground floor window welded up and painted to match the the muntins. They are mounted into the walls with 3" lag screws all the way around. None of the neighbors have noticed them yet.

All exterior deadbolts require a key to unlock from the inside. We keep emergency keys close by if needed, but they are out of sight and out of reach.

The back door has a piece of gas pipe passed through a pair of eye bolts and is capped on one end and pinned on the other. 5' strike plates on both doors.

Good neighbors, really good neighbors.

Irregular schedules.

The wife's other hobby.

That pretty much covers it. I don't doubt that a determined individual could get in the house if we weren't home and they really wanted to, but it will take time and they will wake both the neighbors and the dead. It'll be lots of disappointment for whoever expends that much effort to find out the only things we leave in the house that are worth more than $200 aren't man portable and the neighbors are going to ask way too many questions if they bring a moving truck.

If we ever move away from the city, we'll add a tall sturdy fence completely surrounding any buildings and some large four legged critters with big shiny teeth.

mochinist
04-22-2009, 09:56 AM
My neighbor across the street is a retired locksmith, also one of the most paranoid guys I have ever met, he has alarms and padlocks on everything and a camera system that I always flip off and pick my nose for when I am waiting for him to answer his door :). Since I moved to the neighborhood in 01 he has had two park benches stolen, both his vehicles broken into and I think some vandalism to one of the vehicles on a separate occasion. None of us other neighbors have even had so much as our mail stolen, I guess some people just have sh1tty luck.

I do have a monitored security system and a firearm close by for any late night break ins, honestly though I'll probably get shot before I shoot anyone since I can sleep through just about anything. My parents had a WW2 bomb siren on our company warehouse growing up, it was about 100 feet from my bedroom and when the occasional animal would get in there and set off the system it would wake up the cop that lived 2 miles away from us but I slept right through it numerous times:p

Your Old Dog
04-22-2009, 10:29 AM
Since most shops have air compressors I think the dual air horns about 12-14" in length are far better then a siren. Sirens can be ignored. When they go off downtown in a parking lot no one even looks around to see what the commotion is. Truck air horns are another story entirely. It might be nice to configure them so they don't just blow steady but maybe a toot, toot, toot think until shut off.

I won't let my Labradore Retriever do guard duty. Everyone knows they are only seriously mc'nasty until the door clicks open then the ears go down and out comes the tongue! Besides that, I don't want to see him poisend by some creep whom I'd then have to cover with powder burns.

Evan
04-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Beardog won't eat anything she finds outside unless it is alive to start with. She has to be the pickiest eater I have ever seen.

tony ennis
04-22-2009, 06:52 PM
Evan, that what hogs are for.

/whistles innocently :D

Liger Zero
04-22-2009, 07:35 PM
Also, 2000 watts of remote controllable halogen floods, occasional laser ignition testing, occasional unannounced blasting, unidentifiable sounds from unidentifiable sources as well as inexplicable beams of light pointed at space at 3am.

Remaining capability is classified but extends beyond property lines.



ROTFL that reads like something from Doc's Whiteboard comic strip.

...yet I have NO DOUBT that it's true. :eek:

Dunc
04-22-2009, 07:47 PM
This may be an urban (or rural) legend but I remember a story a long while back...

Small corner store owner supposedly had a buddy who would release rattlesnakes in the store at closing time and collect them at opening the next day. Big signs in the windows etc. Claims he was never robbed.

Likely just a tall tale but still it does have a certain - I don't know - satisfaction to it.

Liger Zero
04-22-2009, 07:49 PM
This may be an urban (or rural) legend but I remember a story a long while back...

Small corner store owner supposedly had a buddy who would release rattlesnakes in the store at closing time and collect them at opening the next day. Big signs in the windows etc. Claims he was never robbed.

Likely just a tall tale but still it does have a certain - I don't know - satisfaction to it.

This is exactly why I don't rob anyone. Guns, alarms, dogs... you can see and plan for those... its the non-obvious stuff that'll get you and then you end up in jail for 15 years and mocked on technical forums like this one for the rest of your life.

thistle
04-22-2009, 07:57 PM
lexan, garanteed to ruin a thiefs day.

bollie7
04-22-2009, 08:08 PM
Our home security is 5 yappy chihuahuas and an Australian Shepherd. .
Tony
What sort of dog do you call an Australian Shepherd? I'm an aussie and I've never heard of it. Is it a Blue Healer?

http://www.dogbreedsbook.com/breedsImages/Australian-Cattle-Dog-blue-Heeler.jpg

regards
Bollie7

aboard_epsilon
04-22-2009, 08:11 PM
Not mentioned yet .

I was remindered about this by Alistair ..who thinks I'm paronoid....you can make your own mind up.

Never tell the world through any forum ..that you are going away on such and such a date ..well.... not specific.

or if you are single mention you are going into town tomorrow to pick something up

and if anyone blurts it out ..make-em take the post down .

don't have those stupid things attached to your email saying you are out of the office.

All the best.markj

pressurerelief
04-22-2009, 08:12 PM
Alarms and guns are good but what do you do when you are not there to defend? I live in a rural area and had a break in 15 years or so ago. I new who it was but could not prove it. Had an alarm system installed and was talking to a corporate security guy on the job one day. His point was alarms are good at scarring people away but cameras identify and help catch them. Make it hard for the burglar so he choses someone else. I have installed pan, tilt, and zoom cameras and use about 400 meg of storage a day on these. When the storage is full it erases the oldest day and starts recording on motion. Never new I had so many deer and other wildlife on my property. A neighbor stopped by and spotted one of the cameras and asked about it. I heard about a week later that I had the "whole place wired". No problems since.

Evan, if you don't mind me asking where do you get your cameras, model #'s, software, etc. I use Axis equipment and write it off.

P/R

tony ennis
04-22-2009, 09:02 PM
An Australian Shepherd is a herding dog developed in the US west. Perhaps they descend from Australian cattle dogs. I don't know. Aussies are similar to a border collie, but stockier with a lower top-end and a medium gear.

Here's our Spice (http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=50474) girl with useless Bella. Spice is getting old, but in her day there was no couch she couldn't hold down.

The confirmation dogs (like Spice, who is an AKC Champion) are far more laid back than working dogs. Working Aussies are almost too intense to have in the house.

moldmonkey
04-22-2009, 09:02 PM
http://www.australianshepherds.org/about.html

Never knew they weren't actually from Australia. Dad and Bro have had quite a few Blue & Red heelers and Australian Shepard and various mixes. Some of the smartest dogs you could find and tough. I watched my Bro's red heeler take a direct kick from a mature bull straight to his big dingo head, go flying and come back for more. Very good guard dogs as well.

doctor demo
04-22-2009, 09:08 PM
About 20 or so yeays ago My house was broken into and cleaned out and trashed, mid day. My good friend and neighbor called me at work and said My front door was wide open. No one saw or heard anything, cops had no leads, found no prints after dusting and making a mess.

Shortly after that, My blazer was broken into and some tools stolen. In My shop's parking lot mid day while We were at lunch.

Thirteen years ago Truck was stolen from My drive way at 5 AM , about 20 minutes befor I would have been driving it away. Police found it 3 days later, personal property removed and some minor dammage. Thief left a student i.d. with picture in it.... police would not pursue the lead, they said "you got it back and your ins. co. covered the loss of use and repairs"

This past thanksgiving my truck was broken into and tools stolen, window broken. Police were to buisy to respond, and said there was nothing they could do because the rain would have washed away any evidence.

If ya catch them in the act, ya can't legaly shoot them unless they are in your house and you fear for your safety. I don't have the strength any more to drag a dead body into My house and clean up the area befor the police show up.

I know that the Police and emergency services are spread way to thin to do their job the way it used to be, so why can't we help without being in more trouble than the perps?

I think there would be a decline in crime if there were more news stories about the decline of criminal bookings and more biusness at the local morgues.


Steve

Evan
04-22-2009, 09:10 PM
The two main cameras are nice little units that I bought from The Source. (used to be Radio Shack). They are zero lux units with 14 IR LEDS and I have a 48 LED IR flood light to illuminate the driveway. The cameras are wireless signal with wired power and metal housings with adjustable sunshades. I have one that looks out over the cul-de-sac on our dead end road. I have modified the optics to give a wider field. The cameras can be switched by remote and retransmitted to my Palm TX. There are other cameras as well.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/securecam1.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics6/securecam2.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics6/securecam3.jpg

Dawai
04-22-2009, 11:22 PM
Steve google georgia senate bill 396..

Lots of states have similar statutes, read up on it before acting. My county does not subscribe to it. They charge you with murder, lighten it to manslaughter.

While you are hashing out a early release for shooting a felon, your house will be cleaned out for sure. A thief has all the time in the world, no job to report to, that meth keeps him up all the time.. I ran one down the road a couple years back who was calling to, and whistling to the neighbors dog.. calling it by name.. making buddies.. Just waiting his turn, and you or me to go to work.

Don't let people pet your dogs. they are bypassing your alarm system.

Too_Many_Tools
04-22-2009, 11:25 PM
Ahhhhh, Finally an area where I can claim to be an expert! You see, my house has been broken into 3 times now, the first two times 8 days apart. My profession puts me at an extra disadvantage as I am away from home for 24 hours while at work and my schedule is very predictable.

After the first two break-ins, about 26 years ago when many things were stolen, I installed a burglar alarm, perimeter type, complete with interior traps (bedroom and closet doors that when opened set the alarm off should the thieves get around the perimeter alarm), steel doors on vulnerable/ hidden doorways and high value areas, and high quality locks with double cylinder dead bolts. I chained my fences shut while I'm away and found a way to very securely lock my garage door down. This way even if they get in they can't take things out through the garage door. It can't be opened from inside, just as the doors with the double cylinder deadbolts can't be opened from inside easily. This way they have but one way out, the way they came in. My alarm has loud sirens outside and inside as well. All the while they are in my home they have to deal with that screaming noise, something that is both unpleasant and will cause a paniced feeling. The alarm control is hidden away in a closet with solid door and locked with a deadbolt as well. I keep windows and doorways unobstructed by bushes and foliage so there are no hiding places for thieves and my neighbors keep an eye out while I'm away. (Be aware that your neighbors may also be the culprits in some cases, particularly teens). I also had a dog and best friend for 13 years but she finally passed on about 6 years ago. No doubt her presence was a deterrant for those 13 years.

Well, all this has worked well for the past 26 years but about 5 months ago, while I was on duty, my home was again burglarized (daylight hours). Things turned out differently this time though, when the scum bag made his attempt my neighbors and the UPS man heard the alarm, saw the culprit jump the fence to get away, they chased him down and caught him. Under Florida law he was guilty of a crime just by being in my yard since my gates were locked. The damage he did was pry marks on two doors and bending two window vent frames. He finally broke the glass, pushed through the screen setting off the alarm. With DNA evidence he left behind due to blood where he cut himself on the glass and with my neighbors and UPS man as witnesses he plead guilty. Now I am receiving restitution for the cost of repairs to my property and he is a convicted felon who has served time and probation. He should consider himself lucky, he could have done 15 years; further, had I been home asleep at the time resting after a difficult shift, my alarm would likely not have been set, I would have been awakened by his attempts to break in and he would never have made it to court.

Since this last incident I have added additional security lighting in areas that are not well lighted at night and signs stating I have an alarm.
One final thought, while alarms that are set off by motion or body heat are generally easier and less expensive to install, they let intruders get in before the alarm goes off. I can tell you from experience that it feels much better if the intruder never gets in your home. You feel violated when he does, probably much the way a woman feels after being raped. These people go through your personal effects, drawers, closets etc., and while they are looking for loot and don't give a hoot about your personal life, you still feel violated and exposed, for a long time afterwards.

Scum bags, reprobates, will be with us always, only more so during bad times. We have to do whatever it takes to protect ourselves the best we can, the police can't do it all.

Bear in mind that one can "protect" one's home to the point where you cannot easily leave quickly when the need arises...like at night when a fire occurs.

People die in their homes all the time trying to escape a fire...smoke usually gets them because they couldn't leave quickly...seconds do count.

Dave P.
04-23-2009, 12:14 AM
As somebody already pointed out....noise, painful, drive you out noise.
The shop has plenty of compressed air and I recently added a couple
of Federal Signal air horns that go with the interior sirens.
Got em hooked to a 12 volt solenoid valve.
You may break in, but I doubt like hell you'll stay very long.
They create real pain. System is set to blow them for 4 minutes
then reset. While all this is happening the dialer has already called
me. The system has all the normal detectors plus a few odd ones.
It's been kind of a game/hobby for me.
Dave P.

10KPete
04-23-2009, 12:56 AM
How to keep a thief out of your backyard? hang one in the front yard.

:eek:

:D:D

Pete

doctor demo
04-23-2009, 01:16 AM
Steve google georgia senate bill 396..

Lots of states have similar statutes, read up on it before acting. My county does not subscribe to it. They charge you with murder, lighten it to manslaughter.


Don't let people pet your dogs. they are bypassing your alarm system.

David, the way it is here the criminals are in charge . It doesn't matter if it is the criminals in office or the ones on the street. Unfortunately it is against the law to shoot either kind. Both My dogs bark only if they can't see what they are barking at. Otherwise they turn tail and cower, can't shoot them either.
Steve:D

bollie7
04-23-2009, 01:19 AM
An Australian Shepherd is a herding dog developed in the US west. Perhaps they descend from Australian cattle dogs. I don't know. Aussies are similar to a border collie, but stockier with a lower top-end and a medium gear.
there you go, learn something new everyday.

Working Aussies are almost too intense to have in the house.
Like our Blue Healers or Kelpies and probably most other working dogs. Theres a Blue Healer X Collie lives next door to me. What a nutcase. Biggest problem is its bored. It needs a couple of sheep to look after. Owner can't keep it in. climbs a 2 metre paling fence like its not there. Unlike my 2 Rotties, being typical Rotties, never been known to exert themselves unless its absolutely necessary. LOL

bollie7

Roy Andrews
04-23-2009, 01:56 AM
first off you have the right to protect yourself any where any time. you just have to be believable when you say i thought it was him or me.

years ago there where a lot of break-ins in our area during the day. drug addict crap whatever was fast and light. old lady down the street put a 38 round in a guys head as he came thru her window. she was in her 90s nothing was said. 3 days later i'm sleeping after night shift and hear someone in my living room. find known addict/thug and best friend of perp #1 with knife in hand cutting cable off vcr. after exchange of demands he made a move and took 2 rounds 00 buck. that was over 10 years ago and the druggies still avoid this whole area. I'm not saying guns are the only answer. just one option for someone willing to use them. if you aren't sure you can do it don't arm the criminal with your gun.

i also say security system. that and mark your property in ugly ways. when crack head picks up that tool and its got pink paint and your name and phone # gouged in big letters maybe him or his dealer will shy away from it. also inventory your stuff and have good insurance. if they really want your junk sooner or later they will get it.

in the development where my sons gf lived houses where being broken in to weekly. never any signs of forced entry. only took some of your money or small stuff like they where trying hard not to be noticed. only if you weren't home. police wanted nothing to do with it. told son to stay at home with a gun and not answer the door or phone. he wasn't willing but a guy one block over was and caught the guy and held him at gun point for 45 min until police arrived. drug addict about 40 lived in the same development. all the houses where built with the same cheap sliding glass doors and he knew how to open them even if you had a stick in them. after he was caught sons gf remembered him knocking on the door many, many times and asking her stupid questions like had she seen his cat. yet when i had asked her if anyone had ever came to her house more than once that she didn't know she assured me no.