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View Full Version : Cannondale's going taiwan



A.K. Boomer
05-10-2009, 04:50 PM
One of the last remaining American pride and joys of bicycling is moving oversea's If this is true im really heartbroke, Looks like I'll be riding older cannondale's in the future - that kinda sucks with the life cycle of aluminum and all...:(

http://www.feedthehabit.com/mountain-biking/another-one-gone-cannondale-frames-to-be-built-in-taiwan/

BillH
05-10-2009, 05:08 PM
Yep, a nice local company where I grew up in CT. Couple of kids that I went to grade school with had parents that worked there. I also visited the factory when I volunteered as a HAM for a radio checkpoint during a bicycle race.
It is a shame they are leaving. Hell, I am going to look for a flying job in Asia as well. It is where the money is, it is where the growth is. Rome is burning over here.

ZINOM
05-10-2009, 11:07 PM
That sucks.

John

x39
05-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Hell, I am going to look for a flying job in Asia as well. It is where the money is, it is where the growth is. Rome is burning over here.
With all the US shops going on the block and being sold to Asian bidders, it's surprising that American engineers, machinists, and toolmakers aren't following.

rockrat
05-10-2009, 11:53 PM
Wow, I followed the Cannondale and Klien lawsuits in the '80s when I was serious in riding. I put together and rode so many Cannondale bikes that I can still remember pedaling the smallest (and largest) frames around my hometown for a test run before delivery. That bike shop was a fun job and the aluminum frames were all new to me.

My favorite ride was my Klien Quantum. But the Cannondale bikes were always second in my book with Bianchi being a close third. (they still have that mint green color!)

It is sad to hear this news. But like everything now days, the profit margin is in overseas production.

rock~

gnm109
05-11-2009, 12:48 AM
As everyone knows, there has been a steady stream of manufacturing companies leaving the U.S. for a number of reasons. We have become anti-business with our tax and regulatory structure and it's about to get worse.

I heard on the news this week that the present admnistratoin is planning some 260,000,000,000 (260 Billion) in taxes over the next few years, much of that on higher income-producing people and companies. That will cause even greater unemployment when companies leave for greener pastures. .

Combine that with the so-called carbon credit "cap and trade" issue with its ever-tightening environmental controls and who could blame companies for leaving?

If the drain continues, we will be a nation of comsumers instead of builders and manufacturers. God help us.

andy_b
05-11-2009, 09:51 AM
my brother and i bought our first Cannondales when they still built them in Bedford, PA. had to support the local economy, you know. :)

heck, back then the aluminum frames even had a lifetime warranty.

the thing these companies fail to realize is if i am going to buy some bike (or anything) built in Taiwan or China or whatever Asian country, i'm going to buy based on price, not name-brand. so go ahead and build them there. if Wang-Choy's mountain bike is the same and costs 30% less, i'll be buying his.

andy b.

A.K. Boomer
05-11-2009, 10:34 AM
They will still have their hand directly into what i consider the best X-country front suspension system on the planet;

"CSG plans to focus its existing Bedford operations on final bicycle and Headshok assembly, CNC machining, testing and quality control, bicycle warranty repair, inside sales/service, distribution and customer support/administration."


I have been looking on craigs list and E-bay for a back-up frame of slightly different geometry anyways ---- the headshok system is so nice - they do away with the duel telescoping tubes and use a totally rigid fork, then glide the suspension travel on 88 abec-3 aircraft quality linear needle bearings inside the headset -- there is zero sticktion under massive loads and its assembled with slight pre-load so there is no side play, I will have mine apart someday and will take some pics for you guys as the machining is very nice and there's lots of work in these - they are the Ducati desmo's of the mountain bike world and In my opinion deserve allot of credit for this design.

Im really sad that the frames will not sport the "handmade in the USA" logo on the rear triangles anymore --- I paid extra money for my bike (and im always poor) even though Its components were sub-standard to other bikes in its price range and I did it for the quality frame and forks/susp. and because I wanted to buy something from my country, Im proud to own a cannondale - unfortunately it looks like it will always have to be a used cannondale...

sansbury
05-11-2009, 02:45 PM
From the article:

"Lets be clear… a skilled bike welder in Taiwan can build a bike just as well as one in Bethel, CT, but that’s not the point. The point is that we need to ramp up production capabilities in the USA and do it as cheap as can be done overseas."

US industrial output as a percentage of GDP is still quite respectable and the US remains a leader in many areas of production. What's changed over the past 50 years is that we've replaced human operators with electronic ones.

As currently constituted, cap-and-trade will help to force what we have left offshore. If you care anything about the industrial/manufacturing base in this country, you need to tell your elected officials to kill this.

saltmine
05-11-2009, 03:08 PM
That won't happen.

A lot of American Companies are going the "offshore" route to avoid the mind numbing tax burden and the vulture-like grip of stateside unions.

It's happening as we speak...Chrysler is in bankruptcy, and plans to move any remaining factories it has after the chapter 11 to Mexico. GM has also stated that a number of factories in the US will be closed down permanently, and the manufacturing jobs are being moved to Mexico and South America.

It's true that a skilled bike welder in Taiwan can build a bike just as well as one in Bethel, Ct. But, the Taiwanese welder will be doing the same job for $1.50 instead of $275....Of course, the Taiwanese welder has a lower cost-of-living than the guy in Bethel, and doesn't have to pay union dues.
And the manufacturer can STILL sell the product for the same price as it did before....( IE: huge profits)

Obama is working hard to make the USA the world's newest "Third World Country".

mark61
05-12-2009, 12:04 AM
Blaming the present administration for companies leaving the country is just stupidly wrong. Companies, businesses have been leaving for a long time. Cheap labor and obsene managment pay is what it all about.

mark61

A.K. Boomer
05-12-2009, 12:22 AM
This country's been a skeleton crew for a long time and it seems to keep getting worse, A few who import the goods and sell them see huge profits but what are all the masses going to do to survive or buy any of the products being imported --- everybody's going to hurt esp. when there's no moneys to buy the product (kinda like now).

mconlee
05-12-2009, 12:33 AM
nobody here makes any money to buy imports with. we all trade on the good name our former manufacturing prowess provides us with. When that good name isnt worth anything anymore, the usa wont be worth anything, and noone will want to import here because noone can afford to buy anything.

after 8 years of tax cuts on the rich, im still waiting for the profits to trickle down!! somehow, i dont think thats the answer, and i really get tired of people here that still think that somehow, it is..

ill probly get flamed now, but so what. im an amateur machinist. i really enjoy reading and sometimes trying some of the solutions i read about in this forum.

chief
05-12-2009, 06:44 AM
I thought the teleprompter messiah was going to stop this? Sure glad he's showing those greedy American companies they aren't going to be making a profit off of the American public.
I'm sure those Taiwanese deserve the jobs more than some lazy,ignorant gun toting American, it's only fair.

speedy
05-12-2009, 07:13 AM
Fries with that order sir??

It is happening elsewhere also.
Face it. In the big picture, and it is the big picture that is important right? :rolleyes:
No one gives a flying f for the work unit (people).



Welcome to the new religion-- it is the same as the old one -- just different.

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andy_b
05-12-2009, 07:50 AM
at least there's some good news for the youngsters out there. they will have the honor of being the first generation of Americans to earn less than their parents (on average). so to anyone under 30 reading this, live it up while you can because once mommy and daddy are gone it is all downhill. i do feel bad for my kids.

andy b.

gnm109
05-12-2009, 09:52 AM
Fries with that order sir??

It is happening elsewhere also.
Face it. In the big picture, and it is the big picture that is important right? :rolleyes:
No one gives a flying f for the work unit (people).



Welcome to the new religion-- it is the same as the old one -- just different.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$
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I'm no corporate sellout but a company cannot stay in business if it doesn't make enough money to grow. The present tax and regulatory structure, especially here in California, is extremely anti-business. The present structure is enough to make companies leave and go to other states, for example, Nevada, that has no state income tax.

Take that and add to it the pronouncements of the new president and his minions, tax evaders all, by the way, and smarter CEO's and company boards can see the handwriting on the wall.

Thus, when companies leave the area, employees are the first ones hurt. Change the structure so that companies can stay and jobs will be more secure. If things do not change in Washington, we are finished as a world manufacturing center.

Apparently, the new national motto, just given to us starting January 22, 2009, is now "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Where have I heard that before?

A.K. Boomer
05-12-2009, 10:45 AM
I'm sure those Taiwanese deserve the jobs more than some lazy,ignorant gun toting American, it's only fair.


Damn Chief, don't be so rough on yourself --- You do have to ask the question how are they going to make it when we have to get back to basics, its already happening in China on a huge scale as they are folding in on themselves, So what might eventually happen here is a re-birth from the grassroots on up -- after the initial struggle for survival that is.

I don't like it --- but who knows - maybe we end up shedding a bunch of brand names and sell them off then maybe we create a bunch of better ones - leaner - more hungry - and without as many blood sucking lamprey's attached - We really have not been hungry for quite sometime and when America gets hungry watch out --- the very reason we have so many cool brand names to "sell off" in the first place is we are second to none for being the land of innovation. Cannondale is a great example, They boldly blazed a totally new trail with building bikes from aluminum right from the start --- they kept this pace going with their two different types of front suspension (the headshok and the lefty)
They also bucked the system with a totally different designed bottom bracket that has now been adopted as the high end standard for many bikes around the globe due to its weight savings and extra rigidity, I do hate this news but If I can stockpile enough parts to ride this out there just may be a day when it comes back around full circle again. If we get a fresh start yet get to kind of pick up were we left off watch-out,,, This company has been plagued by major issues for a long long time and has been bought and sold many times over - its been clinging on for survival but they were so advanced in their thinking that I can ride what they've already built and do it for the next decade and still not be obsolete.
Keep the faith Chief, This country has proven itself in the past that with hunger comes innovation, And with innovation comes new jobs that nobody can touch for awhile.

The Great Phoenix Warrior welcomes the challenge as it knows its own soul very well --- the further down it gets kicked equates directly to how high it shall soar...

Hows that for a pep talk from an overgrown kid who just found out he lost one of the loves of his life, When I test drove my C-dale for the first time I knew it might be the one but after test driving about 80 other bikes within a week - I think it was on about the 3rd test drive when It became clear to me that it was going to be my new steed that I got a little choked up, I didn't cry but my eyes got watery, I tried to stay away from the sales rep. kid who was following me around on another bike because I didn't want him to see this but when I went to tell him I wanted it I could hardly talk --- I then told him that I was having a little trouble containing myself because I could not believe I was getting a new bike after a decade of riding and racing my hoo-koo-E-koo (HK2) gary fisher with over 50,000 miles on a cro-mo frame with two patch/weld jobs on the rear dropouts holding it together --- He looked at me and said "Dude -- don't ever wait that long again to buy another bike" and then we both laughed our asses off...

There's something about a good bike, I can see why they used to hang guys for stealing peoples horses - I think the same law should apply for the bicycle - how many times iv left my house and done a round trip 60 mile dirt loop and always made it back and never had to walk, Iv had my pump break and transferred air from one tire to the other and limped back - iv ran out of patches and stuffed the tire full of straw - Iv cracked frames - semi-taco'd rims and straightened - had crank arms come loose, chains break and deraileur's get munched and had to make my bike a single speed --- but iv never had to walk, and I don't own a cell-phone...

Sorry for such a long post; R.I.P. Cannondale Company -- they may take your empty carcass away but your fertile ashes will remain.

sansbury
05-12-2009, 03:04 PM
You do have to ask the question how are they going to make it when we have to get back to basics, its already happening in China on a huge scale as they are folding in on themselves, So what might eventually happen here is a re-birth from the grassroots on up -- after the initial struggle for survival that is.

To understand what is going on you need to look beyond the headlines.

US manufacturing as a % of the economy is declining, and manufacturing employment is declining with it. You could be forgiven for thinking that soon nothing will be made in the US anymore!

And yet, the US has for many years (and IIRC still is) by far the leading manufacturing country in the world, measured in total dollar terms.

http://www.nationmaster.com/time.php?stat=ind_man_val_add_con_2000_us-value-added-constant-2000-us&country=us-united-states

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ind_man_val_add_con_2000_us-value-added-constant-2000-us

Our exports are low compared to other manufacturing powers like Germany, Japan, and China because we consume most of our output right here. That's also why fluctuations in the value of the dollar tend to hit them a lot harder than they hit us.

Manufacturing is not shrinking in real terms. What is happening is:

1. Other parts of the economy are growing faster, so in relative terms there seems to be less manufacturing going on.

2. Manufacturing is becoming more productive in terms of labor relative to other sectors, so there are fewer jobs to produce the same amount of stuff.

The era of plentiful jobs in manufacturing has been replaced by the era of plentiful jobs in government, healthcare, education, and services. Those of us who romanticize the glory days might want to think about how many guys who worked on shop floors and blast furnaces for 40 years would have loved an air-conditioned office where the worst injury you could get was carpal tunnel syndrome.

Even if the US manages to significantly increase the size of our manufacturing sector in the next 10-20 years we will never see a return to the levels of employment that were true in the 60s and earlier. Even if we quit buying stuff from China, the fact is we employ a lot more machines than we do people and that isn't ever going to change.

These days if you want a job in manufacturing you either need to develop specialized skills or locate yourself in an area where there are a lot of growing manufacturers.

john hobdeclipe
05-12-2009, 10:04 PM
I suppose this cheapening and moving production to Taiwan, China, etc. is inevitable. The company that bought Schwinn did it, the company that bought Raleigh did it, Sturmey Archer did it. The folks who bought Cannondale a year or so ago, if I recall, said "nothing would change" but now they've done it. Eventually TREK will sell out.

Late last year, Eddy Merckx sold a majority interest in his company (and who can blame him?) and the new owners say the same thing, that the change in ownership will be transparent, that everything will go on as usual. But it's just a matter of time.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=/tech/2008/news/10-24

I've been riding my Merckx for 20 years now, and unless I crash and destroy it beyond repair, I expect it to last another 20 or so. I think I have a good enough stash of extra parts to keep it going, although I would like to find a couple pair of 26.4 Cinelli bars for spares. My 1974 vintage Phil hubs are still rolling smoothly on the second set of bearings.

I may have mentioned this before, but here goes again: The first products that Cannondale produced, before they started building bikes, was a range of touring bags, panniers, and a neat little trailer that could carry two small kids or could be packed with custom fitted duffels. I still have one of those duffels, from about 1973. They called this system, much to the amusement of our cousins across the pond, "Bugger."


had crank arms come loose...about 14 years ago, 95 miles into what would have been a 100 mile ride, my Campy Record C right crank arm came loose. Needless to say, the lady I was riding with was not at all impressed!...but she still puts up with me.

gnm109
05-12-2009, 11:24 PM
Blaming the present administration for companies leaving the country is just stupidly wrong. Companies, businesses have been leaving for a long time. Cheap labor and obsene managment pay is what it all about.

mark61

Companies have been leaving the country for a long time, back several presidents IIRC. That said, nothing that I've heard from the present administration so far will do anything to reverse this unpleasant exodus.

Furthermore, the latest unemployment numbers show that more than 500,000 jobs were lost in the past month.

Obama "talks the talk". Now let's see if he can "walk the walk".