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Ken_Shea
05-16-2009, 12:56 AM
Is there a way to reduce or cushion the play between a splined shaft and the receiver?

Grease wont be appropriate in this case.

EDIT:
It needs to slide freely.


Thanks
Ken

A.K. Boomer
05-16-2009, 01:27 AM
How long does it have to last...:D

macona
05-16-2009, 02:26 AM
Maybe something like a sheet plastic. Teflon would be too soft I think, Maybe something like polyamide tape (Kapton). Thats pretty tough stuff.

Evan
05-16-2009, 05:39 AM
I would try LoctiteŽ Form-A-ThreadŽ Stripped Thread Repair.

It has a release agent that is applied to the bolt. The material is gooped in the hole and the bolt wound in as a mold. After it sets it is supposed to be able to hold the equivalent of a grade 5 fastener. Seems to me that a spline shaft would be a very similar application.

Ken_Shea
05-16-2009, 09:08 AM
How long does it have to last...:D

haha, yeah, that's always the question.



macona, there is some heat, I would guess too much for plastic sheet.

Evan, once again you have hit on a good suggestion, have some here and that is worth a try.

The part will function well enough as is, just rattles when under a noload.

It is the reverse clutch plate for a Gravely mower.

Thanks
Ken

Evan
05-16-2009, 09:17 AM
If that doesn't work then peen each spline lightly along the top to widen it. If you make it too tight then get out a fine file. That took the rattle out of my el-cheapo drill press.

[edit]

First thing to try is to install the spline in different positions to see if it fits more tightly.

A.K. Boomer
05-16-2009, 10:00 AM
Yes it is why I asked how long it needs to last as I was thinking along the lines of what Evan stated except using JB weld and wax on the male splines for releasing --- either way you go I would like to add an important note if you take the filler approach --- after assembly you need to torsionally load the parts in the direction of the way they will run and hold them there till the filler is set up -- if you dont do this you may cause a situation in which the shaft runs way cocked and causes severe vibration.

I have another one for you and depending on your load application it could prove to be good also,

Wax male splines (you can do a heat and dip or just use a little propane torch for slight temp) and load female splines up with firm body silicon and coat male too (after its cooled with a thin coating of wax) - slide together and again torsionally load in running direction and let set --- heat unit slightly to melt wax on male splines and slide out -- now go in center of female splines with small wire bush and remove silicone from center of spline yoke but leave it at both ends --- then pack center with boat trailer wheel bearing grease -- Now you have a spline drive that wont rattle due to the silicone on each ends and its also a semi-sealed unit that will not be as susceptible to dirty conditions, it will also handle as much constant load that you can throw at it due to you pre-loading the part in the direction it will be running so the load goes to the metal not the filler - want to get fancy ? install a zirk fitting in the center.

Evan
05-16-2009, 10:58 AM
The pressure will blow the silicone out as if it wasn't there.

A.K. Boomer
05-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Nope -- thats not how its worked for me anyways --- first off there is no pressure to speak of on the silicone if the shaft is always loaded in one direction - second is thats why you use a very firm body silicone for when the shaft has to free-run and there might be a little backlash --- third is you take a wire brush and some brake clean to the female splines before applying - but like I first stated - it depends on the load application.

But if you want to get picky your the one that missed telling him to pre-load the shafts while curing - that's a total fuqe as not only will it be assembled half cocked but it will also be relying on the filler material instead of the metal as a load bearing part --- it will lose tolerance quickly while wallowing out the filler material ;)

Furthermore -- re-assembling the splines in different places is a hit and miss and also needs warning in the miss-alignment department.

any other questions?

Evan
05-16-2009, 12:16 PM
first off there is no pressure to speak of on the silicone if the shaft is always loaded in one direction

There is if you put a grease nipple on it. In goes the grease, out comes the silicone. Simple hydraulics.


But if you want to get picky your the one that missed telling him to pre-load the shafts while curing

What if it turns both directions?


Furthermore -- re-assembling the splines in different places is a hit and miss and also needs warning in the miss-alignment department.


This isn't a vehicle driveshaft. It won't matter.

Any other off the mark comments?

A.K. Boomer
05-16-2009, 04:11 PM
There is if you put a grease nipple on it. In goes the grease, out comes the silicone. Simple hydraulics.

Simple hydraulics if a simple hillbilly is using the grease gun -- don't godzilla the damn thing - a few pumps and when you feel a slight resistance then STOP!





What if it turns both directions?

That's why I threw in that "crazy lil" clause about "DEPENDING ON YOUR LOAD APPLICATION" I put it in larger letters this time so you could read it...





This isn't a vehicle driveshaft. It won't matter.

Just because a driveshaft is not being used in a vehicle doesnt mean its exempt from any of the forces - and in fact its the forces that are enacting upon it that are the only relevant issues. Same goes in opposite - Point being is there are "vehicles" that are designed to freewheel upon de-accel therefore they have no loads in the opposite direction



Any other off the mark comments?


Nope -- I think that about sums it up quite nicely --- regrets, AK:p

macona
05-16-2009, 05:28 PM
FWIW, kapton can withstand being immersed in molten solder.

John Stevenson
05-16-2009, 06:24 PM
What about that red Chinese dragon fat,
takes 3 nuclear explosions to remove that crap off anything...................

.

Ken_Shea
05-17-2009, 02:26 AM
Loading it in the direction of torque should be a good idea, or would that be in the opposite direction of torque??..... anyway, I know what you mean. It drives in one direction only, the load in the opposite would be inertial only, should be small by comparison and also not sudden.

Going to try the thread locker suggestion, because it would be the simplest.

Still have the equipment I used years ago to inject high strength polymer into ball joints, king pins etc, super strong stuff, not what I would call fluid at 350 degrees but flows under pressure, don't think those temperatures would be reached under normal operating conditions and would soon solidify when the temp drops below that. That would require a grease fitting, my second approach should the thread locker not work out.

Thanks
Ken





What about that red Chinese dragon fat,
takes 3 nuclear explosions to remove that crap off anything...................

.

Tell me more about this Red Chinese Dragon Fat :D

Evan
05-17-2009, 06:43 AM
Just because a driveshaft is not being used in a vehicle doesnt mean its exempt from any of the forces - and in fact its the forces that are enacting upon it that are the only relevant issues. Same goes in opposite - Point being is there are "vehicles" that are designed to freewheel upon de-accel therefore they have no loads in the opposite direction

Oh? Name one. It is illegal to use so called "coaster" drives on a road vehicle. They used to make bolt on overdrives that coasted but they were banned when it was discovered that engine braking helped to save wheel brakes from destruction on long hills. In fact current auto xmissions do the opposite, they lock up at hiway speed.

Regardless, what Ken is talking about is the sort of rattle you get in a poorly fitted drill press quill, not a vehicle drive shaft. Comparisons to a vehicle driveshaft are meaningless. It isn't the type of forces that matter so much as the magnitude.

Don't feel hesitant to ask my advice on these matters in the future. :rolleyes:

jihe
05-17-2009, 07:55 AM
Oh? Name one. It is illegal to use so called "coaster" drives on a road vehicle. Saab 93, 95 & 96. Do you have to disable it then if you have one of those in Canada? Doesn't matter much if you have a four stroke, but would be problematic on the two strokes.

A.K. Boomer
05-17-2009, 10:14 AM
Very good Jihi, I actually owned the 95, in all due respect it did have a lockout lever so it could be used in either mode, I believe people who didnt know any better were getting into big trouble frying their brakes on the descents.

Now to give Evan his well deserved spanking:p



Oh? Name one. It is illegal to use so called "coaster" drives on a road vehicle. They used to make bolt on overdrives that coasted but they were banned when it was discovered that engine braking helped to save wheel brakes from destruction on long hills. In fact current auto xmissions do the opposite, they lock up at hiway speed.


First off due to you introducing the word "vehicle" in this discussion we need to define what its definition is to you in order for you to understand just how things work in the real world.

Vehicle; "any device or contrivance for carrying or conveying persons or objects , including land conveyances , vessels, aircraft, and spacecraft; sometimes specifically restricted to land conveyances on wheels, runners, treads, etc."

Now that we got that out of the way let me introduce to you the common street legal moped with torque converter transmission -- guess what? you will never hear one (that's properly adjusted) de-accel under power of the rear wheel due to the front torque converter pulley fanning out and getting very small in drive diameter when one backs off on the throttle --- Hint - its centrifugally controlled - this is how the machine idles at a stop sign with no drag to speak of, when you let off the throttle of a torque converter driven moped at speed the engine does the same - it idles -- guess what else - they are not only a street legal road vehicle --- they have little splines that engage the torque converter variable pulley and still allow for linear opening and closing movement:D Perfect example if I do have to say so myself.

Its kinda like playing a game of chess huh? don't look now but you just lost your queen:p





Comparisons to a vehicle driveshaft are meaningless.



Keep in mind that that's what I stated right off the bat -- in fact right after you wrote this mess;



"This isn't a vehicle driveshaft. It won't matter."

If comparisons to a vehicle driveshaft don't matter then why in the hell would you bring it up?

Was it just to expose your ignorance of the fact that you don't know how some simple vehicles like mopeds operate?








Don't feel hesitant to ask my advice on these matters in the future. :rolleyes:


Remember when I told you that I don't mind you calling me out on something as long as you have your act together?
yeah --- about that --- you need to get your act together. Please stay away from your wheel barrow until you fully read AND understand the operating instructions. Thank you.

Evan
05-17-2009, 10:44 AM
Boomer, stick to the matter at hand. If you do then the discussion might actually be meaningful.


Vehicle; "any device or contrivance for carrying or conveying persons or objects , including land conveyances , vessels, aircraft, and spacecraft; sometimes specifically restricted to land conveyances on wheels, runners, treads, etc."



So what? How many have stubby splined shafts that rattle when poorly fitted?

I knew you were going to LEAP on the fact that I (intentionally) took vehicle to mean an automobile. You are very predictable. You also missed that I wrote "road vehicle". That removes all but "land conveyances on wheels" from your definition.



Was it just to expose your ignorance of the fact that you don't know how some simple vehicles like mopeds operate?


Not a vehicle under the Motor Vehicle Act.


ANYway, I have work to do on my free energy project. :D

A.K. Boomer
05-17-2009, 02:48 PM
ANYway, I have work to do on my free energy project. :D



Evan, let me save you some time, putting a generator on your wheel barrows tire and using it to haul rocks down hill and traveling back up empty to get more rocks to haul back down is not "free energy", The earth paid for it long ago in volcanic or tectonic plate action --- Plus pretty soon one of your neighbors will shoot you for changing the view out there...:)

I Hope the weather is nice out there today and you get some time outdoors ;)


Edit; Sorry So Predictable.