PDA

View Full Version : Rattle in my head



cuslog
05-20-2009, 11:44 AM
So, I've got a 2 year old bridgeport clone that's starting to develop a rattle in the head. It's a variable speed, 3 HP, R-8. Its especially noticeable at lower speeds and seems to go away above 1200 or so.
It was nice and quiet at all speeds when it was new - I haven't really used it all that much, maybe 100 hours or so.
I shoot some grease in the grease nipples once in awhile, oil in the oil cups etc. I don't think I've abused it. A couple little "crashes" :eek: but that happens to everybody now and then .... doesn't it :rolleyes:
Advice, comments ?
Thanks

Dawai
05-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Thought I had found my cousin, my nose after being broke 13 times in one year rattled when I would shake my head. It's locked up with snot and allergies now.

My bridgeport rattled while running on a phase convertor, runs smooth on a vfd.. they make a bushing to go around the splines in the top end.

Load a test bar in the spindle and check runout.. one crash does ya..

A bridgeport has two bearings on the bottom, one on top of the cartridge.. they usually bend right above the bottom two bearings. I have hunted one for my machine now for two years. too cheap to pay industrial prices..

Evan
05-20-2009, 11:59 AM
No rattles but both my eardrums are perforated and when I sneeze they squeak.

Here in my gallery is a cutaway diagram of a Bridgeport head:

http://ixian.ca/gallery/displayimage.php?album=14&pos=18

JCHannum
05-20-2009, 12:04 PM
That drawing is for a step pulley head, and not much help for a vari speed head. The bushings on the vari speed sheaves get worn and cause the rattle described.

If caught in the early stages, the fix is not too difficult and involves replacing the plastic bushings. If allowed to continue, the motor shaft will wear to the point that one of Sir John's weld and machine repairs will be required.

cuslog
05-20-2009, 12:47 PM
I put a .001 DTI on the spindle after my latest little "incident" and can barely see the needle move, so I don't think its spindle bearings.
Yes, the rattle seems to be coming from up top somewhere and I had read one of "Sir John"s" threads about repairing the shafts. I am thinking its probably the sheave bushings, I'm thinking its still early too and if I do it now the shafts are probably still OK.
Why would they put plastic bushings in there ? I guess I already know the answer to that. Does anyone make a better bushing that'll last more than 100 hours of use ?
Is this much of a job ? Does the motor need to come off ? It looks like a heavy sucker and way up there too !

Evan
05-20-2009, 12:50 PM
It depends on what size you need. I have some ultra hard bronze on hand and it won't cost much to send you a chunk if that will do. Just tell me how big a piece you need, I have plenty.

MickeyD
05-20-2009, 01:24 PM
Some of the Bridgeport clones use the Bridgeport style plastic wear sheaves that are reasonably easy to replace. Some of the other ones use a bronze on steel for the pulleys and I have seen several that have worn the motor shafts as well as the bronze, making repairs that much more complicated. If you get in it and find too much wear or it is not feasible to make repair parts, you can go with a fixed belt arrangement and use a VFD for speed control. Between back gear and a decent VFD, you can cover almost all of the speed range that you had before.

Avedis
05-20-2009, 01:40 PM
that adjusts the belt alignment - worth a try

lazlo
05-20-2009, 02:06 PM
That drawing is for a step pulley head, and not much help for a vari speed head. The bushings on the vari speed sheaves get worn and cause the rattle described.

Jim's right on, as usual. That's almost certainly the vari-speed bushing. If you let the sliding bushing wear too much, it will damage the sheave key and shaft, and then you'll have to send it to Sir John so he can MIG it back up and turn it smooth :)

It's a relatively simple repair, but you need to determine if your clone uses a Delrin or Bronze sliding bushing. Bridgeports use Delrin. Lagun, Index, Excello use bronze. The clones are a toss-up.

Evan
05-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Here is an exploded view and price list for the top housing.

http://www.icai-online.com/home.php?cat=263

And a very reasonably priced repair kit:

http://www.icai-online.com/home.php?cat=312

lazlo
05-20-2009, 02:17 PM
Here is an exploded view and price list for the top housing.

http://www.icai-online.com/home.php?cat=263

The plastic VariDiscs that Mike mentioned are part number 59, but that's specific to the Bridgeport varispeed.

cuslog
05-20-2009, 03:52 PM
David; 13 times in one year ? Hockey ? Yappin when ya shoulda been listenin ?
Evan; thanks for the offer, I don't think I'll take it apart this week, I'm kinda in the middle of something, maybe in a week or 2 or 3, that motor looks heavy.
Thanks for the replies .

Evan
05-20-2009, 04:53 PM
No rush here. If you want some bronze just say so. I have about 50 lbs of it.

According to David his nose got in the way quite a few times because it was paid to. He was a bouncer at one time.

JCHannum
05-20-2009, 05:36 PM
It will depend on the manufacturer whether the bushings are bronze or delrin. The plastic bushings are quite thinwalled, and would require modifying the sheave to replace with bronze if you go that way. An added level of difficulty is the key in the sliding sheave, it has a cast in pin to locate it. Some provision for that would need to be made as well.

That is the downside of the vari-drive B'ports & their clones. The key is usually the first to wear, then the sleeve. It is recommended to run them through their range once a day for this reason. You are better off with a step pulley and VFD for about the same investment.

John Stevenson
05-20-2009, 06:25 PM
The varispeeds were much sought after a few years ago but with the improvements in inverter technology if I had to choose now days I'd go for a step speed and VFD drive.

I get two types of repair in quite regular, One is the varispeed drive, weld and cobble up and the latter is fitting an oversize motor to a step speed.

I get more of the former.

.

lane
05-20-2009, 06:32 PM
They all do sooner are later. Fix it and 2 years from now it will start rattling again. Learn to live with it. And when it gets too bad then fix it and every thing else that is wore out up their too. Typical turret head vertical mill problem.

Dawai
05-20-2009, 11:03 PM
Evan: Okay, I adore pretty women.
The year my nose stayed busted for a year I was working for dancers escorting them to and from work assuring their saftey. I worked Card Games at the Read House for politicians and rich Sob's.. security and delivered the girls and looked over them.. so they didn't steal or get beat up too.

Sometimes when buddies would ask me to take their woman to work back then, it was cause there was going to be trouble. I was the torpedo used by others. Loaded, launched and delivered. I just thought it was cool to have a cutie on my bike. I can almost read the thoughts, *send the stupid one.. Jethro..

When I'd pick one girl up in paticular, she'd have six or seven waiting on her at the back door.. Sometimes I'd have to fight three or four at once. I can remember once sticking my finger into my jacket pocket like I had a pistol cause it hurt to turn my eyes from side to side.. I got cracks from my nose to my eye sockets still.. reality.. soon, break it a few more times and I will be blind.

Sandy, that girl.. she ended up in Vegas.. She got my mom to run me off.. she had stolen her ear rings.. I think she did that on purpose I really do.. She thought it was boring not to have the "David" worshiping her alone.. My mom got in the way.

I married Carrol, I can say right off to you younger guys, marry a friend of the opposite sex and you will be much happier than a high maintenance unhappy never satisfied trophy.. Carrol is #4... It can't all be "them" now can it.?? Ha.. okay.. I'm a asshole too.

One of the women from the "old days" came out of the shadows and made my life a living hell for six months.. torturing me and her new man.. her man heard so much about me, he hated me too. and listening to her rag him as I sat in the hedges outside their house, I felt sorry for him.. I still left him in a pile.. but really thought I should have been rescuing him from the "evil biatch"... They phoned me drunk and tortured me.. found me on HSM.. with a phone number.. silly man I was..

You measure my "fat unhealthy body" against what I once was.. not even a shadow remains. I was blessed with years of a well working machine. I am happy with what I had and what little I got left.

Now you know entirely too much about me, since I am having episodes again and the end draws even near who knows when the cure is coming? I've had a good run of it.. I have enjoyed life.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs024.snc1/3099_72456092321_605072321_1747539_3442302_n.jpg
Can't hardly tell it has been busted no more, or the face is crooked? or?? One side of my jaw don't close right?? or my vision blurrs when I turn my head?? or?? squeak, pop.. to go to the bathroom?

gnm109
05-20-2009, 11:14 PM
I put a .001 DTI on the spindle after my latest little "incident" and can barely see the needle move, so I don't think its spindle bearings.
Yes, the rattle seems to be coming from up top somewhere and I had read one of "Sir John"s" threads about repairing the shafts. I am thinking its probably the sheave bushings, I'm thinking its still early too and if I do it now the shafts are probably still OK.
Why would they put plastic bushings in there ? I guess I already know the answer to that. Does anyone make a better bushing that'll last more than 100 hours of use ?
Is this much of a job ? Does the motor need to come off ? It looks like a heavy sucker and way up there too !


My Webb 4VH (Taiwanese BP Clone) has a Vari-Speed that is identical to a BP. As far as I can tell they used the plastic bushings on the sheaves to permit the pulleys to slide more easily and also to cushion and protect the shafts. There are also a couple of sliding plastic keys in there, too.

My friend has a BP with VariSpeed and his bushings are slightly worn. At certain speeds it rattles. I think that should only happen after much use, though. 100 hours doesn't sound like enough.

I don't think it's all that difficult to change them. In the manual, they show a method of changing the belts without completely removing the motor but I guess you'd have to take the motor and the upper cover off to access the pulleys. Onve you get that far, it would be straightforward to R&R the bushings

gnm109
05-20-2009, 11:21 PM
Evan: Okay, I adore pretty women.
The year my nose stayed busted for a year I was working for dancers escorting them to and from work assuring their saftey. I worked Card Games at the Read House for politicians and rich Sob's.. security and delivered the girls and looked over them.. so they didn't steal or get beat up too.

Sometimes when buddies would ask me to take their woman to work back then, it was cause there was going to be trouble. I was the torpedo used by others. Loaded, launched and delivered. I just thought it was cool to have a cutie on my bike. I can almost read the thoughts, *send the stupid one.. Jethro..

When I'd pick one girl up in paticular, she'd have six or seven waiting on her at the back door.. Sometimes I'd have to fight three or four at once. I can remember once sticking my finger into my jacket pocket like I had a pistol cause it hurt to turn my eyes from side to side.. I got cracks from my nose to my eye sockets still.. reality.. soon, break it a few more times and I will be blind.

Sandy, that girl.. she ended up in Vegas.. She got my mom to run me off.. she had stolen her ear rings.. I think she did that on purpose I really do.. She thought it was boring not to have the "David" worshiping her alone.. My mom got in the way.

I married Carrol, I can say right off to you younger guys, marry a friend of the opposite sex and you will be much happier than a high maintenance unhappy never satisfied trophy.. Carrol is #4... It can't all be "them" now can it.?? Ha.. okay.. I'm a asshole too.

One of the women from the "old days" came out of the shadows and made my life a living hell for six months.. torturing me and her new man.. her man heard so much about me, he hated me too. and listening to her rag him as I sat in the hedges outside their house, I felt sorry for him.. I still left him in a pile.. but really thought I should have been rescuing him from the "evil biatch"... They phoned me drunk and tortured me.. found me on HSM.. with a phone number.. silly man I was..

You measure my "fat unhealthy body" against what I once was.. not even a shadow remains. I was blessed with years of a well working machine. I am happy with what I had and what little I got left.

Now you know entirely too much about me, since I am having episodes again and the end draws even near who knows when the cure is coming? I've had a good run of it.. I have enjoyed life.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs024.snc1/3099_72456092321_605072321_1747539_3442302_n.jpg
Can't hardly tell it has been busted no more, or the face is crooked? or?? One side of my jaw don't close right?? or my vision blurrs when I turn my head?? or?? squeak, pop.. to go to the bathroom?

You look OK to me. I still have my bike but I quit hanging out in bars a long time ago. I was afraid of losing my amateur standing. LOL.

I've had my nose broken once and the guy did a pretty good job so I only did it once so far. Gee, 13 times in a year? That might be a Guinness Record.

If you break that sucker again you'll be like Michael Jackson. I understand that he keeps his nose in a glass of water at night. LOL.

Hang in there! Nice looking ladies there too by the way!

:)