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John Stevenson
06-13-2009, 07:06 PM
Just been reading the text and results from the Isle of Man TT races.

No longer part of the championship circuit as some riders deemed them to dangerous and hasn't been for a while but they are still the most popular race in the British Isles.

I used to go years ago for the classic races, prepared a few bikes, had some successes but above all enjoyed myself immensely.

Times move on though and I was frankly gobsmacked to see the speeds for this years Senior race.
Fastest lap record was pushed to 131.58 miles per hour and that's an average speed over 37 miles per lap.

Did a quick search and Ian Hutchinson, on his opening circuit, was recorded at 192.838mph through the Sulby Speed Trap.

Now I don't know how many have been to the Island but we are not talking race track here, we are talking small country roads on a small Island, hell the whole island doesn't have one piece of dual carriageway at all !

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/d1f3e52fd7e2c7dd882817f7afd05bfe.jpg

Bruce Anstey coming down the mountain into Creg-n-Ba. Probably breaking from 140 mph to about 80 for the corner.

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/99d9f9076a7351ad134f5f7874f19fa8.jpg

John McGuiness going thru Ramsey on his way to a 131 mph lap

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/458088354e629c4a4858d634bf6f3adc.jpg

Ian Hutchinson just past Sulby after going thru the speed trap at 192.8 mph

Note no run off areas, no straw bales, just open road circuit, kerbs and lamposts included.

They do need medals as big as dutbin lids.

.

DICKEYBIRD
06-13-2009, 08:17 PM
Methinks there's other things that are big as dustbin lids!;)

They must have specially fitted leathers and seats to accomodate said things. (We call 'em clankers over here.)

x39
06-13-2009, 08:26 PM
The performance available in today's machines is amazing, not to mention the skill of the riders. Awesome event, I'd love to make it there some time.

gnm109
06-13-2009, 08:32 PM
Just been reading the text and results from the Isle of Man TT races.

No longer part of the championship circuit as some riders deemed them to dangerous and hasn't been for a while but they are still the most popular race in the British Isles.

I used to go years ago for the classic races, prepared a few bikes, had some successes but above all enjoyed myself immensely.

Times move on though and I was frankly gobsmacked to see the speeds for this years Senior race.
Fastest lap record was pushed to 131.58 miles per hour and that's an average speed over 37 miles per lap.

Did a quick search and Ian Hutchinson, on his opening circuit, was recorded at 192.838mph through the Sulby Speed Trap.

Now I don't know how many have been to the Island but we are not talking race track here, we are talking small country roads on a small Island, hell the whole island doesn't have one piece of dual carriageway at all !

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/d1f3e52fd7e2c7dd882817f7afd05bfe.jpg

Bruce Anstey coming down the mountain into Creg-n-Ba. Probably breaking from 140 mph to about 80 for the corner.

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/99d9f9076a7351ad134f5f7874f19fa8.jpg

John McGuiness going thru Ramsey on his way to a 131 mph lap

http://www.iomtt.com/images/cache/458088354e629c4a4858d634bf6f3adc.jpg

Ian Hutchinson just past Sulby after going thru the speed trap at 192.8 mph

Note no run off areas, no straw bales, just open road circuit, kerbs and lamposts included.

They do need medals as big as dutbin lids.

.

The TT is certainly a wonderful historic race but definitely not for the faint of heart. I recall reading about John Surtees and Les Graham in British Bike Magazines in the front room of Teresa Wallach's motorcycle shop in Chicago when I was but a mere waif. Those were my heros at the time and Chicago was literally packed with every British motorcycle brand ever built. It was a great time for me.

Ms. Wallach came from Post War England to become a beloved figure in the American motorcycling scene. I learned a great deal about motorcycles from her. The best part was that she would let me ride her 1948 Norton SOHC International. It was a great thrill for a young kid!


http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=309

QSIMDO
06-13-2009, 10:28 PM
I posted this earlier

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=35211

thinking the technology would make good conversation but all it did was prove my wife correct, that I'm wrong more times than not.

Thread died a horrible death it did. ;)

gnm109
06-14-2009, 03:46 AM
I posted this earlier

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=35211

thinking the technology would make good conversation but all it did was prove my wife correct, that I'm wrong more times than not.

Thread died a horrible death it did. ;)


I saw that thread and found it very interesting. I liked the TT more back when they ran bikes with open megaphones. The sound of an MV Augusta four on it's "megs" at 130 mph was very appealing somehow. The electrics are nice but way too quiet.

Circlip
06-14-2009, 04:10 AM
Showed a clip on Brit TV this week of the "Lecky" bikes doing the circuit, not long enough. The "Legendary" Barry Sheene only tried the island once and decided it was too dangerous. My own personal fave, SMB, Despite Count Augusta and Aggro, Joey D was one to admire (Barmy Irish).

Once tried Olivers Mount on a "Cub" Sir John, Thank god for the Mountside slip road.:D

Regards Ian

Your Old Dog
06-14-2009, 05:43 AM
Hell we're doing that kind of riding on our thruways John. I was doing about 60 mph on a 4 lane when a "swarm" of at leasts 15 crotch rockets whizzed by moving from lane to lane at maybe 120 mph. It's a phenomenon that is getting started here in the states.

Last week a kid was killed after he and two other friends were pulled over by the cops and he decided to run. He hit parked cars at well over a hundred and knocked the tire and rim off the first car he hit. Turns out he left a note on his computer to not cry for him, it was a suicide by bike.

http://www.buffalonews.com/437/story/693609.html

jackary
06-14-2009, 06:35 AM
Its a wonderful race with deep roots in history. I always wanted to go but never made it. Especially liked the era of Hailwood, Macintyre, Read, Ivy, Minter I could go on and on because every era is special. I once had a 1932 international Norton and thought of riders like Les Graham at full speed on similar machines. Awe inspiring and the smell of Castrol R. Better stop now and pull into the pits.
Alan

Dawai
06-14-2009, 07:35 AM
They also need a nursing home there on the track to take care of the "oops"... he's had a accident..

How many people have been crippled there?

edit:
The TT races are extremely dangerous because of the high speeds on very narrow, twisting streets, roads and lanes flanked by stone walls and even buildings. Between 1907 and 2009 (at the end of 2009 TT races period) there have been 226 deaths during official practices or races on the Snaefell Mountain Course (this number includes the riders killed during Manx Grand Prix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_Grand_Prix) and the Clubman TT (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Clubman_TT&action=edit&redlink=1) races). Well, that is deaths, not Gimps.



News (http://www.guardian.co.uk/)
UK news (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk)

Isle of Man TT races

Three die in Isle of Man TT race crash

Rider and two spectators killed on final day of centenary races


Buzz up! (http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz?publisherurn=the_guardian665&targetUrl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jun/08/markoliver&summary=%3Cb%3EMotor+cycling%3A%3C%2Fb%3E+A+rider+ and+two+spectators+have+been+killed+on+the+final+d ay+of+the+centenary+Isle+of+Man+TT+races.&headline=One%20rider%20and%20two%20spectators%20ki lled%20in%20Isle%20of%20Man%20TT%20crash%20%7CUK%2 0news%20%7Cguardian.co.uk)
Digg it (http://digg.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.guardian.co.uk%2Fuk%2F 2007%2Fjun%2F08%2Fmarkoliver&title=One+rider+and+two+spectators+killed+in+Isle+ of+Man+TT+crash)
Mark Oliver (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/markoliver) and agencies
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Friday 8 June 2007 19.20 BST
Article history (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jun/08/markoliver#history-byline) http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2007/06/08/iofman2.jpg The Isle of Man TT. Photograph: Ian Walton/Getty Images

A rider and two spectators were killed today on the final day of the centenary Isle of Man TT races. The rider, competing in the Senior TT motorcycle race, and one of the spectators died at the scene. A second spectator died after being admitted to Nobles hospital.
The accident occurred at the 26th milestone on the 2,036ft Snaefell mountain, which is the highest point of the course.

Hey, I been to races where they have "magic" orange tape to keep spectators safe.. they stretch it across the hairy turns and bends where the vehicles "might" leave the course. They also use this as a nuclear containment field in construction jobs.. behind the purple and orange tape you are safe and should perform your job as requested.

(well in anger?? My wife still refuses to "talk" about my buying a hayabusa) She don't want to wipe the drool from my mouth for another 20 years.

PTSideshow
06-14-2009, 08:26 AM
I can remember reading about them in the mags in the late 60' early 70's and then other things took over. They used to show the races on cable over here. But other more important things took the time slots. Like school bus racing, pulling boat and travel trailers on figure 8 courses along with the boom box in cars and hopping competitions :D
The times and tastes do change, and as Y O D said they drive like that on the freeways and in this area on the streets.

About once a month an accident makes the news with video, from a crotch rocket doing 80 or better on the side streets.

Brother in law is a cop in Dayton Beach Fla. And always says that Bike Weeks. Are the worst for the messiest accidents.
People showing off and doing impromptu stunts for the crowds usual turn out the worst. As most involve the crotch rockets. Which isn't a surprise.

They refer to it as Organ donor week! :eek:

They are definitely the loser when hitting a the side of a SUV
at 80 mph.

John Stevenson
06-14-2009, 08:58 AM
True story.

1986 we went over to the Manx Grand Prix, like the TT but held in September.
Took two bikes over to run in the Classic GP, Eric riding a 250 NSU Sportsmax and John [ not me ] riding a 350 Aermacchi, I was was dogsbody, chief mechanic and driver, mind you I was only chief mechanic as there was only me :D

Practice was held every morning from 5.00am until 7.00 when the roads were opened again.
So this particular morning got out of a warm bed at 4:00am drove up to the paddock for the briefing and it was thick fog.

Brilliant, no practice in this and back to bed .

Went into the Briefing and it went like this

"Morning lads just a quick update, weather is pretty well much like this over the circuit, it's raining going into Ramsey, plenty of wet leaves on the track around Peel and visibility on the mountain is about 30 feet.
Go steady and have a good ride "

WTF ????????????

So went and got the bikes out, fuelled up and Eric set off first, followed by John who had a faster bike. Now in those days you had to lap in 30 minutes or under to get to race, this over 37 miles. So I'm thinking got to be 40 minutes in this weather so not a lot of point going out unless to test something.

28 minutes later John pulls in for more fuel ???? followed a few minutes later by Eric.

John did his 3 laps, Eric broke down on the last lap so we loaded Johns bike in the van and waited for the roads to open, we knew where Eric was as control had let us know but they always break down 18 1/2 miles round, they just do.
So 45 minutes later to do 18 1/2 miles in a van on twisty roads we collect Eric.

On the way back to the hotel I ask what it was like because on these times it must have improved.
Nope still 30 foot of visibility on the mountain.

"So how can you see the next corner at those speeds ?"

"You know the course and know where all the corners are so you count 1,2,3 4, and lean into the next corner. "

I think the heater stopped working in the van as it sure got colder.........

.

QSIMDO
06-14-2009, 09:22 AM
True story.

"So how can you see the next corner at those speeds ?"

"You know the course and know where all the corners are so you count 1,2,3 4, and lean into the next corner. "

.

Just like makin' love with a large woman, eh John? ;)

Good story there.
One thing that's always puzzled me about the course.
Difficult enough to keep drunken revelers out of the way, but what about squirrels, hedge hogs, dogs....ahhhh, just explained Manx cats didn't I!

Circlip
06-14-2009, 10:00 AM
And one year, a horse.

A.K. Boomer
06-14-2009, 10:23 AM
Its hard to imagine getting that good in the first place, Youv got to push the envelope in every direction and stay right on the edge and most of the simple "mistakes" will take you out immediately, I don't mind admitting that iv always been way too much of a doze for anything but hillbilly riding, The experience probably surpasses that of a jet fighter pilot in full battle tactics and given the extra "dimension" over auto racing I would think it also.
I bet those guys are living a thousand lives when at that level - I hope they are - they deserve it.

I'll never forget a sight when I went back east to visit my family,
I was on a major highway going about 75 when seeing a very strange "thing" coming from the other direction across the medium --- It was not "symmetrical",
It was extremely tall for its narrow profile and yet had this "bubble" off to one side, I could see it coming from 1/2 mile away easy and said to myself "what the hell" , Then as it approached I could tell it was "wheeling" all the cars at a great deal over their speed - maybe not quite double but this "thing" was doing at least 120mph,
Then as it wisks by I get a good look - Its a guy on one wheel and he's got his head off to the side just to be able to see where he's going, that's not all, he's weaving through the lanes to pass cars like this, he's followed by a pack of riders that are all on two wheels,
Im so captivated Im then rubber necking while still driving just to see how much longer he's doing this, this weird shape kept going like it was till I couldn't see it anymore... Im then hit with the realization of how do you get that good without killing yourself first?

John Stevenson
06-14-2009, 11:07 AM
There is definitely a barrier you have to pass, don't know what it is but it's there.

Few years ago we went to Cadwell Park for a clubmans race, this is one step down from National, two steps down from International, basically starter class, good old boys wanting a serious day out.

In one of the heats one of our riders threw it away on a corner and hurt his leg, not serious but enough for him to call it a day.

One of his friends who had come to watch asked him if he could take his bike out in the next heat, no one would know there were no checks at this level once you had been initially cleared. His mate said OK so we straightened his bike out, nothing serious bent pegs etc and this guy took the grid.

Now I rated this guy as a rider, he'd never raced but on the road in the usual burn outs, road runs etc he was always well up.

So the race started and everyone got away, this guys about in the first 10 out of probably 30 or so riders, next time round he's halfway down the field and being passed on both sides at once.
Next lap he's about 8 from the back and finished up next to last.

In all fairness to this guy he never blamed the bike instead he said wow I thought I was good until I got out there, I was braking for a corner and guys were passing me still changing up !!

Since then I have often wondered if you take this guy ripping past you on the road and stuff him on a track how he would make out.

Most of the UK tracks have track days where you take your own bike, pay a sum of money and are banded into classes, usually 3, novice, intermediate and expert. Doesn't pay to lie as you get trounced :D

For that you get 6 laps for as often as they can organise the 3 classes.

Everyone is timed from a transducer fitted to your bike as part of the hire price and they are posted.
they also post lap times from actual races so you know just how you stack up.

It's a bit of a laugh to see an intermediate sign up into expert class and see the times :D

daryl bane
06-14-2009, 11:19 AM
If your into bikes(for me. Norton), there is no other race. I've gone three times back in the 80's and the last one on a bike(unfortunately a Kaw) and it was a blast. Mad Sunday is kinda crazy, do they still do that? The lap around the island at sane speeds is probably one of the greatest and beautiful rides there is.

QSIMDO
06-14-2009, 12:33 PM
I always thought I was a smooth, fast rider but then I attended a track school at NHIS.
I had a Ducati 900SScr at the time, Ohlins rear shock, forks done by a well known suspension outfit, engine breathed on by the regions best, I was all set to show what's what.
Sat impatiently through a couple hours class room until finally it was time to suit up.
Had to rent leathers for the day since I don't own my own suit but slipping those on was like draping myself in Supermans cape.
LET'S GO!!
So off we went, small groups, learning the track and lines, brake points, etc.
Then our instructor said "let's up the pace a bit!"
Off we went, the group being very polite with no passing until we all got up to speed and the instructor leading the way.

Important to note here that the instructor was a fella who had (conservatively) raced maybe 30,000 miles on this track. Might know a thing or two but there HAS to be a line he hasn't tried, right?

Well, I got up to speed and into the flow and fealt like Freddie Spencer himself. Watch me go through this set...check out this line...hunh, blew his spokes out, etc. let's chase down this instructor chump.

Just when I thought I was at my fastest, "can't catch me I'm the Gingerbread man!" I ripped into a tight, down hill/up hill left corner and as I
swept through thinking nothing could match me, I looked through the turn as I should, only to see the instructor...TURNED COMPLETELY AROUND on his bike, one hand on the throttle the other on the bikes tail piece, WATCHING US progress through the corner to chase him!!!!

Are you at all familiar with that heavy, crushing feeling when you come to the realization that you have NOTHING?

Humility has got to be worth 15-20 hp I reckon.

Dawai
06-14-2009, 12:40 PM
People showing off and doing impromptu stunts for the crowds usual turn out the worst. As most involve the crotch rockets. Which isn't a surprise.

Not always the crotch rockets.. the pretty lil blonde I picked up in Sturgis 1995?? her Boyfriend had pulled up behind a Blazer planted the front tire on the rear bumper and did a smoky burnout.. trouble was it was the police chiefs car with the badge on the door and the lights on the roof.

His stupidity worked out for me. I had a "Hillbilly yahoo" time that week.. She was fun, wish I'd kept her. She was purty and could not keep her clothes on, it was a MAGNET attraction to the tattoo bus. I can still remember the slurpie cup she was carrying, will show tits, $10 donation.. rounded with bills.. Bridgette are ya out there in Texas somewhere?

Isle of man TT.. a combination of luck and skill and a good machine. One mechanical failure affecting handling, one gust of wind, one brain fart.. the person wiping your butt and drool off your chin hopefully is using different rags.

asallwey
06-14-2009, 03:40 PM
John,

How did Norton do? I didn't see them listed on the TT website under practice results.

Thanks,

Alex

A.K. Boomer
06-15-2009, 10:53 AM
Just when I thought I was at my fastest, "can't catch me I'm the Gingerbread man!" I ripped into a tight, down hill/up hill left corner and as I
swept through thinking nothing could match me, I looked through the turn as I should, only to see the instructor...TURNED COMPLETELY AROUND on his bike, one hand on the throttle the other on the bikes tail piece, WATCHING US progress through the corner to chase him!!!!

Are you at all familiar with that heavy, crushing feeling when you come to the realization that you have NOTHING?

Humility has got to be worth 15-20 hp I reckon.


That's insane, it didn't even happen to me and Id still pay good money to have that on video!

I can't ride my mountain bike 5 feet backwards.

Michael Moore
06-16-2009, 12:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikuDSa9_uJE

A North Rocket 3 going a bit too hard at Ballaugh Bridge.

cheers,
Michael

speedy
06-18-2009, 12:10 AM
Another fast one.
http://www.bikesportnz.com/?p=104

Not Isle of Man but street racing all the same.

There was our Robert Holden.
The Robert Holden feature at Wanganui
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaVnR-JkEog&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JGA2nkGmrc&feature=related

Paeroa Street Racing is always good; guaranteed fine weather.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJClURIVY90

Oldbrock
06-19-2009, 02:32 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned my hero, Geoff Duke and his Norton before the Italian fours took over. Peter

derekm
06-19-2009, 03:48 PM
There is definitely a barrier you have to pass, don't know what it is but it's there.

Few years ago we went to Cadwell Park for a clubmans race, this is one step down from National, two steps down from International, basically starter class, good old boys wanting a serious day out.

Cadwell park is fierce test of one's skill be it on 4 wheels or two especially the full circuit. Its where "aerodynamics" has a different meaning to most circuits....
For those who dont know it. If someone had constructed it as a drive upto one's mansion.you would sack the the constructors for it being too narrow, too twisty, and too steep and far too full of blind corners. Think of it as a narrow Monaco with a bit of runnoff here and there

John Stevenson
06-19-2009, 04:15 PM
I like Cadwell, it has character.

.

Charles Ping
06-19-2009, 05:35 PM
I like Cadwell, it has character.

.


Me too.
And a Vintage Sports Car Club meeting there tomorrow (20th June)

Charles

John Stevenson
06-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Lucky bugger, I've got to find my passport and get some money changed then shoot up to Halifax and fetch 'another ' CNC mill [ best Forrest Gump voice ]

See you Monday if you are still popping in, got that 1 metre DRO for you.

Charles Ping
06-20-2009, 02:17 AM
Lucky bugger, I've got to find my passport and get some money changed then shoot up to Halifax and fetch 'another ' CNC mill [ best Forrest Gump voice ]

See you Monday if you are still popping in, got that 1 metre DRO for you.

See you Monday

c