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View Full Version : Another one of those "Things" has followed me home!!



Bill Pace
06-17-2009, 07:46 PM
Grandson was graduating from high school in Mich (Pontiac area) and that being a pretty high point in a fellas life, the bride and I loaded up and made the 1150mi trip to join the festivities. Of course, that area being known for availability of machines, while I was there I felt I should scour the area for something interesting - this came up on Craig list.

Have been wanting (wanting, not needing!) an all power surface grinder and this one followed me home. Its a 6x18 G & L #25 (Galmeyer & Livingstone) out of Grand Rapids, Mi. The seller bought out a 'business' and it was part of the lot (there were 3 G & L's), -- he put power to it and the old boys tables action were smooth as silk, and the spindle was very quiet. He 'guestimated' the age at around 50s-60s??. How much you say? -- $450 and with a bit of "discussion" about it not having a mag chuck, he let me have a electric chuck for $200 (no control, but there is one from times past on the machine that hopefully will come back to life)

This model/brand is totally unfamiliar to me and a search of the web didnt turn up much -- any of you guys familar with the G & L name?

I was up there in my '06 Ford 150 and had to turn down a couple other grinders when the known weight was in the 2500+lb range. On visiting this one the owner and couple of his guys - and me - thought it might be in the 1800-2000lb range and he was very helpful in offering to load it up and see what it looked like, saying he'd take it back off if didnt look good (they were nice people!)... soooo on board it went -- and this is what it looked like...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_1201.jpg
And it rode quite well on the trip home, I had brought the rear tires up to 50psi - it would 'bottom' on a bad bump/whoop-de-do but that only happened 4-5 times on the whole trip. Cost me about 1 1/2 mpg loss at the usual 70mph, which I was very pleased to see.

This is a better look-see at the grinder---
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_1204.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_1205.jpg

Liger Zero
06-17-2009, 07:57 PM
We had a bigger version of that in the pressroom at WT&D gathering rat-****. Had War Asset Tracking tags and War Surplus tags on it, it was that old.

websterz
06-17-2009, 07:59 PM
Looks just lilke mine Bill Same shade of blue even. I bought mine on Craigslist as well, $375 delivered. :D They are great machines. Mine came without the electromag chuck too, but the controls are all there. I pulled them and set them aside, went with a permanent mag chuck instead. Let me know if you need parts. :^)

I notice that the oiler on yours' is different. Mine has the original Bijur top-pumper on it. The metering jets were all shot, gummed up from lack of use. It'll cost me about $180 to replace all of them, but they ARE available from the manufacturer. That beats replacing the whole system.

Leland-Gifford bought G&L out. I spoke with a guy there, gave him my serial number and he pulled up the history of my grinder from rolling off the assembly line right thru a list of previous owners and major rebuilds. Give them a call...lots of good info you'll want!

http://www.barkermill.com/

lane
06-17-2009, 08:23 PM
Nice Bill .You just can`t get enough.

Randolph
06-17-2009, 09:32 PM
I have wondered at the proliferation of G & Ls in the machine world. There is Gallmeyer and Livingston, Gould and Lamson, Giddings and Lewis and maybe more. I at one time owned a Gallmeyer and Livingston tool and cutter grinder which was a very servicable and useful machine. You did good on your trade.

Bill Pace
06-17-2009, 10:01 PM
websterz, good news you've got one!!:D

Have sent you a PM with a few initial questions ........

DICKEYBIRD
06-17-2009, 10:08 PM
Aww man Bill, what a nice machine. (Drool, drool!)

I sure am glad some imbecile didn't pull out in front of you and force a really aggressive evasive maneuver. Could've been nasty.:( Methinks you probably had it worked out in your head to just roll right on through him unless it was an 18 wheeler or a tank.;)

jb-mck
06-17-2009, 11:34 PM
Looks good Bill. Just what you need.......more stuff!

Alistair Hosie
06-18-2009, 04:32 AM
I hope it works out right for you wow have fun Alistair

rockrat
06-18-2009, 07:44 AM
Call me curious, I noticed that there looks to be a spark catcher on the right of the machine but nothing on the left. I dont think that I have ever run a surface grinder that threw sparks (or parts) to the right.

I dont know if your a south-paw but did you get the lefty model?

rock~

Rustybolt
06-18-2009, 07:59 AM
Call me curious, I noticed that there looks to be a spark catcher on the right of the machine but nothing on the left. I dont think that I have ever run a surface grinder that threw sparks (or parts) to the right.

I dont know if your a south-paw but did you get the lefty model?

rock~

In the olden days if you had one that used coolant they were on both sides of the table.

websterz
06-18-2009, 09:11 AM
I will answer a couple of Bill's PM questions here for the benefit of the group. The rigger that offloaded my #25 put the weight right at 2000 pounds...a nice chunk of iron! The machine was originally equipped with a Bijur one-shot oiler that had a vertical handle, the oiler seen on Bill's machine appears to be an aftermarket model. And yes, the grinder was originally equipped with a coolant system in the form of a self-contained reservoir/pump on wheels that sat on the floor below the oiler. There should be a hole in the casting in that area where the wiring for the pump passed through the machine. The bottom button pair on the control panel is/was for this system. Like yours', mine is missing that part. No worries, I am building my own out of a 12volt bilge pump and a 5 gallon bucket. It ought to work just fine. Actually it was fortunate that I didn't have the coolant system on my grinder. While we were working on getting it running the control coil for the spindle gave up the ghost. The replacement coil was available but close to $200! We shuffled a few wires around and ran the spindle off of the old coolant relay. Problem solved. In the near future I am going to get rid of the original electrical system and install all new wiring and relays.

A.K. Boomer
06-18-2009, 09:31 AM
I was up there in my '06 Ford 150 and had to turn down a couple other grinders when the known weight was in the 2500+lb range. On visiting this one the owner and couple of his guys - and me - thought it might be in the 1800-2000lb range and he was very helpful in offering to load it up and see what it looked like, saying he'd take it back off if didnt look good (they were nice people!)... soooo on board it went -- and this is what it looked like...
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/IMG_1201.jpg
And it rode quite well on the trip home, I had brought the rear tires up to 50psi - it would 'bottom' on a bad bump/whoop-de-do but that only happened 4-5 times on the whole trip. Cost me about 1 1/2 mpg loss at the usual 70mph, which I was very pleased to see.



I was impressed to see that truck pic also, she's really not sitting to bad but gawd help you if something came up and you needed to act quick (that baby would come right through the cab) Heavy metal / both machines. (not bad for a 150 )

Bill Pace
06-18-2009, 10:21 AM
something came up and you needed to act quick (that baby would come right through the cab) Heavy metal / both machines. (not bad for a 150 )
glad some imbecile didn't pull out in front of you and force a really aggressive evasive maneuver.
Indeed those were my biggest concerns about the whole thing --- in my other life I did a good bit of mechanicing and was doing a rebuild on a Ford 361 engine. Loaded up the short block for a trip to the local re-builder just plopping it in the bed of my truck - bet you know what I said to myself as drove off -- "its only a couple miles, I'm not gonna need to go to all that hassle of tying it down" Of course at the second stop light some clown ran the caution, calling for a panic stop - I thought I was gonna have that block up my rear:eek: - put a hefty 'whang' in the front of the bed and a smaller one on the back cab wall ( and the drivers seat needing a good cleaning from soiled pants) -- Thats the reason for the 4 point tie-down on the grinder.

That F-150 does have the 'tow package' -- not sure if that means a bit heftier spring on the back, sorta makes me think it might with that thing riding as good as it did -- any body know what a 'tow package' consists of?

Thanks for the weight info Todd, I had told myself I didnt wanna get too close to that 2000# mark,-- I think I'm glad I didnt know the exact weight at the time. Cooling - yeah, making up a system will be simple enough

Next, - I plan on using a static converter to supply 3ph, do I just wire the spindle & hyd pump off one unit adding the hp's of the 2 motors to get what size to get? And, in the event the existing controller for the electro-mag is kaput, can I rig up a controller with a conventional DC controller? -- it calls for 110v DC at 5amps which is well in the range of, say, a treadmill controller?

pcarpenter
06-18-2009, 11:27 AM
That looks to be a stout grinder indeed. Rigidity and mass ought to be good for surface finish and with that in mind, I would think that machine top notch.

You were really pushing it hauling a ton in a half-ton pickup. Before everyone starts with their stories about how it's been done (I have done it too), let me say that I'm just sayin... We tend to think "gee...I got home and the truck is not broken in two so it must have been OK", when in reality I have wondered how much we have shortened bearing or shock absorber (or transmission) life or if it could have ended differently with a broken spring and a resultant wreck when 2k pounds suddenly shifted to the broken spring side.

So, are you going to remove what appears to be ceiling texture paint from that baby :D I know machines are meant to be used and that paint is merely cosmetic, but that stuff is sure crusty looking:rolleyes: Why do people who are not willing to properly clean and/or paint a machine insist on doing it anyway. You see paint over dirt, grease, etc. on some old machinery or a paint job that looks like it was done with a driveway sealer roller...why bother? I'll get off my soapbox now.

Paul

lynnl
06-18-2009, 12:43 PM
In my experiences (two in fact) just a few miles in a grossly overloaded condition just wrecks the springs. In both cases the truck(s) never rode nearly as good again.
One was so bad that I always intended to shop for some new springs, but never did get around to it.

websterz
06-18-2009, 05:46 PM
Indeed those were my biggest concerns about the whole thing --- in my other life I did a good bit of mechanicing and was doing a rebuild on a Ford 361 engine. Loaded up the short block for a trip to the local re-builder just plopping it in the bed of my truck - bet you know what I said to myself as drove off -- "its only a couple miles, I'm not gonna need to go to all that hassle of tying it down" Of course at the second stop light some clown ran the caution, calling for a panic stop - I thought I was gonna have that block up my rear:eek: - put a hefty 'whang' in the front of the bed and a smaller one on the back cab wall ( and the drivers seat needing a good cleaning from soiled pants) -- Thats the reason for the 4 point tie-down on the grinder.

That F-150 does have the 'tow package' -- not sure if that means a bit heftier spring on the back, sorta makes me think it might with that thing riding as good as it did -- any body know what a 'tow package' consists of?

Thanks for the weight info Todd, I had told myself I didnt wanna get too close to that 2000# mark,-- I think I'm glad I didnt know the exact weight at the time. Cooling - yeah, making up a system will be simple enough

Next, - I plan on using a static converter to supply 3ph, do I just wire the spindle & hyd pump off one unit adding the hp's of the 2 motors to get what size to get? And, in the event the existing controller for the electro-mag is kaput, can I rig up a controller with a conventional DC controller? -- it calls for 110v DC at 5amps which is well in the range of, say, a treadmill controller?
You cannot run the grinder on a static converter. They are good for only 1 motor. Oh, it'll turn but you'll lose 1/3 of the rated speed on both motors. It's easy enough to go the extra step and build a RPC out of a static panel. 3-5 horse 3ph motors are cheap and plentiful. Any help I can offer is yours' for the asking. :)

As for the controller...I have zero experience with electromag chucks. Sorry.

The Fixer
06-18-2009, 06:05 PM
I don't think you will lose any speed per se. You will lose 1/3 HP not 1/3 speed. That's been my experience with the static phase convertor I put on my 3hp 3ph mill.
al

websterz
06-18-2009, 06:09 PM
I don't think you will lose any speed per se. You will lose 1/3 HP not 1/3 speed. That's been my experience with the static phase convertor I put on my 3hp 3ph mill.
al

That's what I meant...my bad. :o

pcarpenter
06-18-2009, 06:28 PM
The notion of only loosing 1/3 of the rated horsepower is not really correct. It's probably closer to half. The trouble comes in the fact that the two "phases" you do have (since a static converter only supplies the third phase for a few seconds for starting) are not in the proper phase relationship with the motor windings. The inbound power cycles are 180 degrees apart rather than the 120 degree phase relationship of the motor windings. For so many things this does not matter. In the case of a grinder, I would be less concerned with the power lost than I would be with the relative smoothness of the running motor. Single phase motors are not typically used on grinders because they are less smooth than three phase motors. Add in the phase timing mismatch and I would imagine there could be some microphonics in the surface finish.

On the other hand, for testing, you should be able to get by with this. You would, as previously stated, have to forget about the pump and would have to separate out it's wiring. A static phase converter is a capacitor that creates a phase shift for starting coupled with a potential relay (or a timer in some) that will disengage it after the motor is rotating. It won't behave properly if a second motor is paralleled with it...and the unit is expected to start that motor. Likely the potential relay will never allow the capacitor back in circuit.

The good news is that a static converter can be an easy way to start an idler motor. Add an idler motor and some balancing caps and you have a nice RPC.

Paul