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mayfieldtm
06-18-2009, 09:20 AM
Just saw on the News this morning that some poor fellow got himself caught up in a Lathe.
One very obviously shaken coworker said it was the worst thing he could ever imagine.
So watch yourself guys, be safe.
Tom M.

websterz
06-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Where did this happen?

Evan
06-18-2009, 05:26 PM
It seems there have been several recent incidents.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/man_dies_in_industrial_acciden.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/05/2590011.htm

http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200905210729

x39
06-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Grim stuff. One of my buddys just picked up a lathe. He he has ZERO machine tool experience and seemed somewhat surprised when I told him how serious a piece of equipment it is. I would venture a guess that most of us here work alone in our shops most if not all of the time, all the more reason to be extra careful.

Oldbrock
06-18-2009, 06:13 PM
My maxim is turn your brain on and be super alert before turning on any machine. Look around and say "What's the worst thing that can happen" I unusually work alone and only have myself to rescue me, if I'm wrapped up in a machine there's no one to unwrap me. Peter

Liger Zero
06-18-2009, 06:56 PM
With the lathe, make sure your chuck key is IN YOUR HAND before applying power. That's the ultimate failsafe. If it is in your hand it is not in the chuck.

This is a trick an oldtimer taught me. Pick up the chuck key and say "the key is in my hand I am turning on the power now." This is a mental check and it also warns other people around the lathe.

Also, and this one scared the %$(* out of me, make sure if you use screw in collets that everything is tight before applying power. I managed to launch something quite a distance last night.

oil mac
06-18-2009, 07:21 PM
The sad news of this fatal accident, makes one ponder on the thought, "There but for the grace of God go i" It does not take a particularly huge lathe to kill a person, as was proved, by a really nasty fatal accident with a lathe in Scotland about twenty-five odd years ago, An experienced turner was caught up on a long bed lathe of about 15" centre height and mangled, before his colleagues could save him, AS we all work alone, sometimes burning the midnight oil, we should always remember safety first, even though we are by and large using really small machines, It is worth pondering also on the thought, What would be the long term effects on oneself of even a nasty injury?
Enjoy the hobby of making things safely guys.

doctor demo
06-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Allways remember to wear Your safety glasses or face shield when in the shop. Just because You got away with out having eye protection in the past does not mean You will get away with it the next time.


Steve

tattoomike68
06-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Dont just resect a lathe. A big drill press/mill can kill you all the same.

LES A W HARRIS
06-18-2009, 10:50 PM
The lighter side of a serious subject.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2009%20GENERAL/SAVERS01.jpg


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/CURVIC9/2009%20GENERAL/SAVERS02.jpg

Be Safe,

Les.

michael3fingers
06-19-2009, 12:10 AM
the thought of these types of accidents sends a chill up my spine. We had a poor bugger here in AUS squashed when his trolley jack failed.

I am as rough as guts but I always think a step ahead always ask "what if?"

Dawai
06-19-2009, 06:49 AM
I wonder how many of these accidents are due to sandpaper wrapping the piece??

People use wrap sticks for a reason.. sticks didn't bend and take your fingers nearly as quick as a piece of emery cloth.

x39
06-19-2009, 08:30 AM
I wonder how many of these accidents are due to sandpaper wrapping the piece??.
Good question. I've seen otherwise experienced guys polish a piece in the lathe with a three foot long piece of abrasive cloth with the ends hanging over either side of the work piece.

Evan
06-19-2009, 08:46 AM
Always run the lathe in reverse when polishing. That way it grabs the emery over the top which beats the heck out of getting pulled between the work and the ways. I use fairly short strips of emery and if it won't work on a stick I hold it so it will be snatched out of my fingers.

JCHannum
06-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Forward/reverse makes little difference when polishing with emery. If doing the shoe shine bit, use long strips and keep the ends well separated. At polishing speeds, if the emery wraps around the work, a real danger exists for finger or thumb removal. It will be almost instantaneous and the direction the lathe is turning will only determine which hand loses the digit.

J Tiers
06-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Forward/reverse makes little difference when polishing with emery. If doing the shoe shine bit, use long strips and keep the ends well separated. At polishing speeds, if the emery wraps around the work, a real danger exists for finger or thumb removal. It will be almost instantaneous and the direction the lathe is turning will only determine which hand loses the digit.

Not if you hold the ends between thumb and finger, NOT wrapping it in the slightest...... Evan is perfectly correct about that, although I also doubt it makes a difference in reverse.

However, held that way any tangling of the strip will simply snatch it away from you. There is no way you can hold it strongly enough that way to have a problem. If you are also pulling *away* from the machine and rotating work, it is as safe as such an operation can ever be.

if you really have good sense, don't use fabric-backed abrasives..... use wet-or-dry paper.... Not only does it drop far less bits of abrasive, it will just tear if it gets hung up.

Evan
06-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Your experience differs from mine apparently. I still have all my digits.

JCHannum
06-19-2009, 09:37 AM
Your experience differs from mine apparently. I still have all my digits.

As do I. However, too many others do not due to improper methods.

The only point I was trying to make is the direction of rotation will have little effect on the outcome if misapplied. The manner used will determine the safety. Jerry has it right, if using the shoe shine method, hold between the thumb and forefinger, pull against the friction of the lathe and keep the strip tight.

Evan
06-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Try it and see. It's a lot safer in reverse. Hold the strip in the left hand and reach over with the right. Never wrap the strip more than 1/4 turn and it cannot grab.

JCHannum
06-19-2009, 10:06 AM
I don't reach over anything, I use a strip 10"-12" in length and hold the ends well away from the workpiece.

The Fixer
06-19-2009, 10:08 AM
Ter's been enuf people hurt by polishing with emery strips that it has made the regs (here in BC at least) where the "use of hand held abrasives is prohibited on a lathe".
http://www2.worksafebc.com/publications/OHSRegulation/Part12.asp#SectionNumber:12.39
al

QSIMDO
06-19-2009, 10:14 AM
You can still find illustrations in some well respected manuals showing questionable practices.

One I recall is showing filing on a lathe with the operators left hand and arm over the spinning chuck and right hand holding the file handle.
That immediately didn't make any sense to me.

Also, I dipped my chuck key handles in that yellow liquid plastic so that when I DO leave them in the chuck (only human!) I'll at least see it freak out because I did.
I find contrasting colors around the lathe and mill remind me exactly what can be approached when working and what can't.
Too many things are the same color values and blend in to the scene.

jb-mck
06-19-2009, 11:53 AM
Forgive my ignorance.......what is a wrap stick? I grew up on a farm so I have much respect for rotating equipment. It always bothers me polishing with emory cloth or other.

Peter.
06-19-2009, 11:54 AM
It is worth pondering also on the thought, What would be the long term effects on oneself of even a nasty injury?


Very true.

One of my workmates in on his 11th week off work now due to crushing his index and second finger under a 150lb concrete core in amoment of inattention. He has only 10% grip power in that hand and his index finger is useless.

Dawai
06-19-2009, 12:18 PM
The last time I was hurt in a manner that was funny::::"""????

Well I was taking a chip brush (old paint brush) and wiping the curls off the cnc.. it grabbed the bristles came around and went "RAP RAP RAP" on my knuckles worse than the teacher ever did as a kid...

THE sand paper- emery cloth is serious crap.. first it takes your fingers, then it takes your hand, then it takes your wrists, then it takes your arms, then perhaps it just pulls the muscles out up to your shoulders, or takes the rest of your through.. by this time it is all getting pretty slippery so I have heard.

A lady in a plant I was working in the 70s had a beautiful "RACK".. the yarn spinners she was working on had already pulled a bald spot on the side of her head.. it grabbed the "bosum tied" daisy duke wanna-be shirt, stripped it off her Bra-less body.. and wrapped it around the spool skien of yarn..

She looked at me, smiled, and walked to the personnel office at a clip.. I damn near electrocuted myself working in that hot panel.

That same lady, Anita.. She was into them disco biscuits that were popular back in the late 70s.. a truck driver came through complaining about a headache.. she gave him a Rorer 714 qualude.. ever time he came back to the plant he made a bee line to her machine and smiled and said he had a headache..

I should've dogged her more.. I had a loser of a woman back then keeping me broke. She had a job and a corvette.

x39
06-19-2009, 12:39 PM
I generally never use a piece of abrasive cloth more than a couple of inches long when polishing in the lathe.

mayfieldtm
06-19-2009, 01:08 PM
I like to run the Lathe in Reverse when Filing.
Prevents it from jamming into my hand if I should catch the stupid Chuck.
Seems to have a better feel and control too.

Here while back I happened to have the honer to watch a fellow worker load his pants.
He was using a Lathe to wind a big spring with about 3/8" wire.
Somehow the Wire Feeder got caught up and the wire stopped feeding.
The Lathe kept winding and slowly tipped forward and onto Rojulio.
He managed to hit the Emergency Stop and luckily fell in between the piles of crap on either side of him and avoided being crushed.

Had the Lathe bolted down, replaced the jury rigged spooler with a new one with auto shut-off, and had Rojulio clean up his junk piles. ( Which in retrospect, probably saved his life. )

Tom M.

JeffKranz
06-19-2009, 02:02 PM
I can tell you that back in the early 80's, I was working at a machine shop. I was cutting a piece of round stock about 5" in diameter and was taking off about 3/8 per side with a high speed tool bit. Had coolant running and the finish was like a rasp file. Finish wasn't important as I was roughing the stock off. This piece was about 6 foot long and I went to figure out why the light wasn't working. I leaned over the workpiece to reach the light and the next thing I saw was my t-shirt wrapping up on this piece. I just grabbed the back of the lathe and held on since I couldn't reach the off button. In a few seconds my shirt was now a part of the job.

One of my co-workers said - I was watching you and all was fine - then my face turned white - and seconds later I was shirtless. All I can say is I am glad it was a cheap t-shirt. Had three close calls in my life and one of them needed stitches but you need to respect this equipment. Never - and I say again - Never hold a piece down on a drill press and try to drill a hole in it. Make sure it is against a stationary rail or vise.

Dawai
06-19-2009, 02:40 PM
Well today, June 19, 2:37pm.. I can tell you mowing with shorts and flip flops is bad..

Not sure if the liquid skin is going to stop it or I need stitches here in a bit.. I got two packs left of sutures. (been saving them for the next "dog occurence"). Have to hose it off to see the cut.. about three inches long.. Not sure what the mower hit.. I have a lot of flint rock It didn't embed but richocheted off. I had on saftey glasses and a hat at least..

I learned if you are going to sew it up yourself do it before the "shock" of injury wears off. Hopefully the liquid skin will work.

gambler
06-19-2009, 02:51 PM
thats it. from now on I'm machining wearing only a thong.

Dawai
06-19-2009, 03:06 PM
Evan posted some lathe machining in the nude photos once.. please don't.. My psyche may not be able to stand anymore...

Liger Zero
06-19-2009, 03:40 PM
What about photos of my wife machining in a thong?

pressurerelief
06-19-2009, 05:14 PM
Depends on what your wife looks like!

gambler
06-19-2009, 05:16 PM
What about photos of my wife machining in a thong?


I'm a gambler, send me the pics.:eek:

Evan
06-19-2009, 07:02 PM
Is this your wife?

http://ixian.ca/pics6/thong.jpg

chrsbrbnk
06-19-2009, 11:03 PM
we had a guy running a big radial drill pres in a raggedy long sleeve shirt , standing in front of it he reached across it caught his sleeve spun him around in one spot like some sort dance move tore the whole shirt right off him left him facing the same direction startled and shirtless and sh*tless

gnm109
06-19-2009, 11:31 PM
It seems there have been several recent incidents.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/06/man_dies_in_industrial_acciden.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/05/2590011.htm

http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200905210729


In your third link, the employer was cited for failure to provide safety guards on the lathe where the worker was killed. I've seen shields around CNC machines to keep flood coolant inside but I'n never yet seen a shop with any sort of safety guard on a lathe.

In the front of a Hardinge-Bridgeport operating manual that I have they show a picture of a safety guard that surrounds the spindle. I've never seen one of those, either.

It would be difficult to guard a lathe and still be able to use it. I guess that's no reason for not having guards. I'm merely making an obsevation.

Brad54
06-19-2009, 11:57 PM
Regarding polishing with emory cloth on the lathe:
I'm COMPLETELY new to machining. I just bought a 1959 Cincinnati 15-inch swing. Before reading this thread, I was aware a big lathe can snatch off an arm, and since I'm fond of all my appendages, I plan on being careful. I work on hot rods/cars as a hobby, and I'm ALWAYS thinking "Okay, if this goes bad, will my son "find" me."

For polishing with emory cloth, how is it that nobody has made something like a bow drill, or converted a cope saw to hold a piece of emory cloth to polish with it? It'd keep your hands away from the spinning machine, and it'd keep the ends of the cloth from wrapping into the work.

-Brad

TECHSHOP
06-20-2009, 12:54 AM
There is or was a Tri-Sand TS-24. I can't find any web info/links, so maybe they have bit the dust.

Evan
06-20-2009, 12:56 AM
In the front of a Hardinge-Bridgeport operating manual that I have they show a picture of a safety guard that surrounds the spindle. I've never seen one of those, either.

It would be difficult to guard a lathe and still be able to use it. I guess that's no reason for not having guards. I'm merely making an obsevation.
Today 08:03 PM


This is the Harvey Mudd College Engineering Machine Shop. Note the spindle guards on all three lathes.

Note also that engineering nerds really don't have a life. It's after 10 pm on a Friday and where are they? :D

http://metalshopborealis.ca/pics/hmcshop1.jpg

oldtiffie
06-20-2009, 01:36 AM
Oops - got my knuckled rapped from PhotoBucket - post deleted - by author

gambler
06-20-2009, 01:54 AM
holy cow, the only thing that could improve that would be to substitute a sam adams for the bud:D

oil mac
06-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Been thinking as i survey the responses from everybody, What seems to be coming over is the correct observation on the inapropriate use of emery cloth in turning operations, I am cautious of such an operation, I tend on any component, i require to obtain a super finish on, if possible, to use a broad tool, slow speed, and appropriate feed rate for the finish required, and apply coolant, and take a water scrape on the last 0.002" depth of cut, a bit slower but a fine polish is the result, This is a slow way of working, but for a special finish such as a bearing face or a fit inside a wheel etc excellent
There is jobs where you have to use emery, these occasions i always bend a strip of fine emery over a length of stick, hold it on the back, with two heavy drawing pins, and i find it is a reasonable safe modus -operandi, It is always good to keep emery away from your lathe bed, it does the accuracy no favours, For ball race fits, turning the o,d. of the shaft about half a thou up nicely scraped to a good finish, ( depending on dia) and holding the shaft in the vice, tap the race on ,a little touch of fine emery on any high spot, and i never have any further problems. ( Having a cylindrical grinder would be nice!)
This last few weeks, i have been doing some small brass ,varied types of components, and on a lot of this work, i had to use fine emery, for a good finish, my best tool is keeping my wits about me.
Which brings me back to a combination of events some twenty years back, I was working my slotting machine, long day, tired,let my guard down, thought i knew better, was cutting out keyways, and was using a paint brush to swipe away cuttings getting in my way, I dropped the brush, on the last component, couldnt be bothered bending down to retrieve it, as the slot was at the top of the stroke i brushed the cutting away by using my fingers, You have no doubt sussed out the next installment dear readers, on the way down, the ram &tool beat me, and it was like slow motion , as the cutting tool caught my small finger and removed a piece of flesh, A friday night sitting in casualty waiting room, amongst all the drunken scum, is no fun, fortunately i have no long term damage, by sheer good luck, But it is a lesson i will always remember since then i do a simple risk assesment -Safety First, at all times.

oldtiffie
06-20-2009, 07:16 PM
Good advice oil mac.

I don't fold emery cloth over or around the job - just hold it both ends - tight between thumb and fore-finger. If it "grabs" it gets pulled from my fingers. I only use a slow speed and prefer to use "wet-and-dry" paper - wet - as it "keeps" the grindings and cuts better and easier. I prefer to use an older finer single-cut file and/or fill it with chalk as it will do most jobs just as well.

Wrapping the emery cloth around the job and holding it either with both ends in one hand (worse case) or with an end in both hands (nearly as bad) is an accident looking for somewhere to happen - as it will and does.

The absolute worst and riskiest case is using emery/wet-n-dry in a hole/bore around or on the finger/s.

A shaper or a slotter are potentially one of the most risky machines in the shop as they are slow and repetitious and take a long time. They can be mesmerising at times or worse allow the mind to wander. They can do serious damage - especially if there is no E-stop and you can't get to the "Off" switch and you can't get it to "back off". The slotter - a type or vertical shaper - is worse as it is working in a hole as often as not where a shaper is mostly working on a flat surface. A shaper or a slotter is not a machine for anyone who takes chances, day-dreams, loses concentration or who is distracted easily - especially if you are working alone. It can be just as bad if you are talking/listening to someone else or listening to a wireless or have a TV/video just on the edge of your peripheral vision.

I never ever ever walk away from a machine that is running or working - band-saw included. If I have to rush to "fix" it without really knowing what is wrong until I get to it, and "someting has to be done immediately" then I have several problems at short notice!! Its even worse if it happens while I am at some potential risk if it happens while I am working on another machine or process that can be a risk in itself - the more so if an "emergency" develops on an unattended machine.

Sometimes bi-focal glasses can be a risk or a PITA if you are on the wrong lens and can't see properly and either take a chance or move your head at the wrong time.

"Tear-ar$ing" by using a rapid traverse and braking to "save time/go fast" to a cutting operation on a mill is inviting a "crash" and an accident. Its just as bad as "making big smoking chips" just for the sake of it when its not safe or necessary. Getting "twitchy" and "anxious" or "gotta go fast" is no real way to be using a machine either.

There are a lot of "gotchas" in a shop for the unwary - the more so if you are the only one in the shop - or worse still if you are the only one at home at the time.

In my shop, there are NO wirelesses, TV's, MP3's and the like and no one talks until all machines and machining are stopped. No one - wife included - comes in unless I signal that it is OK.

If I am tired or "upset" I either don't go into the shop or if I get that way in the shop - I leave and shut it.

If I am using a machine, tool or process that I haven't used for a while, I give myself a "dry run" to see that I've got it right before I start the "hot run". Its surprising how easy it is when you can rely on practice and "second nature" - but is extremely dangerous to "take a chance" and rely on the the "she'll be right" attitude.

Being "up yourself" and too self-confident can be a disaster as well. But on the other hand, all too often being too cautious or hesitant or lacking in confidence can be just as bad.

Dawai
06-21-2009, 06:37 AM
never yet seen a shop with any sort of safety guard on a lathe.
Evan.. they put them on at TVA quite a few years ago..

My supposition of "why" was some joker was filling the lathe " chuck adjustors" with dykem to make a nice "spotted" operator..

Only thing I could see that lil guard doing is stopping the dykem from slinging out.

(there is one is every crowd, it's funny till someone turns the tables and wires up his locker to a high voltage capacitor)


(perhaps that lil guard keeps the chuck key outa the hole too?)

Evan
06-21-2009, 07:44 AM
When I was in high school I used to carry a briefcase that contained not just my books but also items I was working on in the electronics shop. To prevent theft I made a small modification to the briefcase and then arranged an impromptu demonstration one day at lunch hour when many students were around to witness it.

I waited until the Dean of Boys was walking in the Quad and stopped him. I explained to him that I had a small joke relating to my briefcase and further challenged him to try and pick it up, claiming that I didn't think he would be able.

This piqued his interest as he assumed it was probably loaded with bricks so he secured a very firm grip on the handle and hoisted it from the walkway.

It was nearly empty and he immediately let go as he felt the 2000 volts (at very low current) similar to the output of a weak stun gun that was triggered by a switch in the bottom as it lost floor contact and sent the voltage to a pair of hidden wires in the handle trim.

He was good sport about it, hard to be anything else with most of the student population looking on and nobody ever touched my briefcase. :D

Dawai
06-21-2009, 11:03 AM
Yeah, a tattoo machine wound with a few extra turns making a secondary is exciting too. (was experimenting with various coil windings to take them in and out. I hand wound them coils and still got a surprise.. I almost wet my own pants.

A crank meg-ohmer will charge a dc capacitor up to over a thousand volts. Been there.. done that.

Then there was this ironworker who stomped in my toolbox and never would admit it, when he went to get his toolbox it was sitting on cardboard, tied into a 20 amp 120 volt breaker.. He apologized later. But still never admitted crushing in my toolbox. Things used to get rough on construction jobs.. I remember wiring in a 30 amp wire and striking a arc under a painter who moved everywhere I was trying to work during the day and laughed about it.. seeing the blue arcing glow under him on the aluminum ladder made him go away till I got done. Normally I got along with the ironworkers/other crafts better than the electricians. (a bunch of prima donna's)

Much easier than taking a ball peen hammer to a idiot, or #9 kliens to somebodies teeth. I have no teeth left.. I broke my own front teeth with my own kliens under a piece of machinery. (was stripping wire with a pair of kliens) On some of them jobs I kept my 14 oz hammer in my belt across the small of my back as a tomahawk.

Aww, much easier when we all just get along. I have seen absolutely no real violence on construction jobs in about 20 years.. occasional mouthy rascal gets paid off, but.. Like a crow or jaybird they just fly off after making a lot of noise. Them old guys I worked with in the 70s from the coal mines didn't mess around. They'd knock the crap out of a young apprentice for bringing back the wrong part and slowing them down. I remember mostly they carried Sorgrum buckets for lunch pails.. Poor uneducated a-holes..