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DICKEYBIRD
06-27-2009, 12:41 PM
Yeah, I know, 2 OT posts in row. It won't happen again. I'm having a rare day...working in the yard on purpose, yuck!

This tree was here when I moved in and has grown a bunch over the past few years. A big branch was cut off at some point and left with an angled cut which has gathered moisture and now has a big rotted hole in it. I don't suppose there's anything that could be done now to stave off the inevitable is there? I could fire up my saw and cut as much off as possible, trying to get a vertical cut or is there a potion that can be stuffed in the hole? It's about 16 - 18" dia. below the area shown. I don't have a clue what kind of tree it is.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/Tree.jpg

Liger Zero
06-27-2009, 12:47 PM
Picture of the leaves will help us identify the species.

I don't know much about tree health but I do know how to identify species, my "outdoor hobby" is butterflies and moths and their associated larva.

Mcgyver
06-27-2009, 01:07 PM
yeah, I've got a nice 40 taper 1" one without a ding in it but think I need a 1/250" one as well (and cutters to go with it). not sure if i should make or buy.......whats with the pic of the tree?

John Stevenson
06-27-2009, 01:08 PM
yeah, I've got a nice 40 taper 1" one without a ding in it but think I need a 1/250" one as well (and cutters to go with it). not sure if i should make or buy.......whats with the pic of the tree?

I think he meant Abortionist....................

.

Liger Zero
06-27-2009, 01:36 PM
yeah, I've got a nice 40 taper 1" one without a ding in it but think I need a 1/250" one as well (and cutters to go with it). not sure if i should make or buy.......whats with the pic of the tree?


:D This made me laugh. Machinist humor. :rolleyes::p

Dickybird, any luck with the picture?

DICKEYBIRD
06-27-2009, 01:49 PM
I'll get a leaf pic a bit later. It's on the way to 98 (105-108 heat index) and I've moved into the shop where the a/c's cool and the MGD is frosty.:)

Liger Zero
06-27-2009, 02:03 PM
I'll get a leaf pic a bit later. It's on the way to 98 (105-108 heat index) and I've moved into the shop where the a/c's cool and the MGD is frosty.:)

No idea what MGD is but so long as it's frosty!

I'm inside today trying to teach myself CNC according to Smithy. Got the CNC stuff that was for sale locally. Powered it up last night everything works, now to learn how to not crash it.

Liger Zero
06-27-2009, 02:12 PM
I'll get a leaf pic a bit later. It's on the way to 98 (105-108 heat index) and I've moved into the shop where the a/c's cool and the MGD is frosty.:)

No idea what MGD is but so long as it's frosty!

I'm inside today trying to teach myself CNC according to Smithy. Got the CNC stuff that was for sale locally. Powered it up last night everything works, now to learn how to not crash it.

DICKEYBIRD
06-27-2009, 02:22 PM
MGD = Miller Genuine Draft (I get the longnecks)

Dunno how Smithy does it but I use a "virtual worktable" with my homemade CNC router. It's drawn in CAD with a bit less than the available XY travel. As long as my parts are positioned within the confines of that space, it never (did I say never...that's always BAD luck) crashes. I live dangerous and never even installed limit switches. Of course it's an old, weak system that howls along at a blistering 10 ipm, max.;)

Quetico Bob
06-27-2009, 02:47 PM
Don’t think tree wound dressings are recommended any more. Looks to me like it is starting to rot from the wet dry cycle. How about building some kind of bird house or planter over it that would protect it from the rain? I’m sure there are a few snake oil treatments available at the garden supply as an initial treatment before you cover it up.
Maybe shop vac what’s in there… out.

I was always told to use roofing tar but just doesn’t seem right.

We finally got a break from the hot humid stuff, actually trimmed grass in the rain today for 3 hrs. A refreshing change.

Cheers, Bob

Boucher
06-27-2009, 03:19 PM
If it were mine I would clean and chisel the rotten wet stuff out. I would vacuum and dry the cavity. Don't mess with the rounded area that has healed. I would go down to the Auto parts house and get a gallon of Bondo type body putty. Mix it up and putty knife it into the cavity. Mixing large quantaties of this stuff is kind of trickey. I would give it a couple of days to completly cure and paint over the area with Black tree wound paint. This has worked for me in sealing entrance to hollows where I had to start with a wadded up newspaper plug. I am not an arborist. I have recently seen some work that a pro did on some very old Live oaks. He used the builders spray foam that comes in a can. That appears to work pretty good but looks like *hit. IMO he should have painted it. There was/or is a bee colony in one of these hollow limbs. Don't know if they chewed their way in or out but the hive is active.

Airhead
06-27-2009, 03:45 PM
MGD...? With all that good Tennessee 'shine down there?:D

But you were asking about trees. You can't improve on that cut. When you want to cut a limb off of a tree look where it joins the trunk or major limb it comes off of. On most trees, at that point you will see a rim or lip of bark that seperates one from the other. You want to make your cut as close to that rim as you can without disturbing it. When you do that, that rim will grow over and seal the cut. You can see that your tree is in the process of doing that.

The problem is the kind of tree that it is. That looks like what I call a silver maple tree. All they do is grow great big, real fast, then rot and fall on things. My honest advise to you is to cut it down now, and plant a real tree. (I classify siver maples as weeds!) You've seen how fast it grows, it will just be more of a pain and/or expensive to remove the longer you leave it.

As far as paint or sealer goes, it's mostly snake oil. What I mean by that is I can't say for a certainty that there isn't a product out there that will help to some extent, but I wouldn't bother. Roof pitch or pouring your old house paint in it would no doubt be as good as anything else.


Rick

Yankee1
06-27-2009, 04:05 PM
Hi
The normal procedure is to remove all rotten material. When chiseling out the cavity they make the cavity elliptical. Channels are cut using a gouge to have a drainage route for water to drain through. Once all rotten material is removed the inside is painted with "Cabots Tree Healing Paint". If appearance is important the bark is traced cutting through the cambium layer in a continual
cut from top to bottom on both sides of the cavity. If the cut is interrupted the callous growth that forms will show the interrupted cut. The cut should be elliptical. If you want to fill the cavity cut tar paper to the size of the cavity
Usually a piece for the back of the cavity and one or two pieces for the sides.
Copper nails hold the paper in and provide an anchor for the morter filler used. Morter is normally used in segments separated with tar paper. When finished it has the appearance of being filled with morter bricks separated with tar paper. After it is done the callous growth will be uniform and elliptical.
I notice your tree has a heavy callous growth at present and you may wish to nothing more than remove all the rotten wood and paint with Cabots Tree Healing Paint. Just insure that the water is able to drain out completely. The bottom of the cavity should slope outward.
Yankee1

Quetico Bob
06-27-2009, 04:29 PM
Yankee1

Could you actually drill a hole that intersects with the bottom of the cavity similar to tapping a tree?

Cheers, Bob

J Tiers
06-27-2009, 04:43 PM
I don't suppose there's anything that could be done now to stave off the inevitable is there? I could fire up my saw and cut as much off as possible, trying to get a vertical cut or is there a potion that can be stuffed in the hole? It's about 16 - 18" dia. below the area shown. I don't have a clue what kind of tree it is.


if you mean the hole extends down 16" to 18", there isn't much to be done if the rot is of very large diameter inside.. A lot of the tree is rotted, and a strong wind may take it down.

If there is much tree above that, you are better off to cut it down before it falls on something.

I see trees like that all the time now, since our last few storms. Big tree, looked fine, not even a hole. Wind takes it down, often snapping it off, and you see that there was a big cavity inside.

One fell on a neighbor's house, knocked the chimney off, squashed the second floor sunroom, punched holes in the main roof, all in the heaviest rain we've had in a while.... not good.

DICKEYBIRD
06-27-2009, 05:07 PM
MGD...? With all that good Tennessee 'shine down there?:DRick, I try not to think about my one & only episode involving white lightnin' in my yute. Hurts too bad.

Don't silver maples have them freekin' little helicopters that fly everywhere in the spring? I had one of those in the front yard but I pruned it...one time, ground level. This tree doesn't have any of those.

Here it is; it's too big to knock down in one piece and fit in the yard and I'm too old & accident prone to climb up & take it apart piece by piece.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/Tree2.jpg

Here's the leaves if anyone can identify it from them. Heck, it may even be what my pappy used to call a "piss ell-um".;)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeaves.jpg

Great input from everyone, thanks. I'm going to dig around in the morning when it's cooler & see how bad the rot is. If it looks promising, I'll try to seal it up with the expanding foam. Should be easy, flexible, should keep out the water and is inert when cured.

Yankee1
06-27-2009, 05:32 PM
Hi Bob
The interior is best sealed with Cabots Tree Healing Paint but with that said anything that removes the water fast is good. If you did install a mechanical drain it would help but you still need to remove all rotten wood and seal the good wood. The drains used in maple trees for sap collection
are primarily concerned with removing sap from the cambium layer of the tree which is just under the outer bark. It is that green slime substance you see when you peel the outer bark off. It is composed of the phloem and xylem layers of the bark one grows inward and the other outward growing new outer bark. They do go in deep to anchor the spout.
Yankee1

Yankee1
06-27-2009, 06:12 PM
Could be a Catalpa. Would need to know about fruit, flowers, seed pods.
Catalpa have seed pods that are like long string beans.
Yankee1

jihe
06-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Copper nails hold the paper in and provide an anchor for the morter filler used. Copper nails? I thought they were used to kill trees.

Liger Zero
06-27-2009, 06:46 PM
Poplar or Catalpa.

lynnl
06-27-2009, 07:25 PM
It's not a catalpa or poplar.
The leaves look somewhat familar to me, but I can't think of just what they might be.

Are there lots of other trees like that around nearby? i.e. a native tree? Or does it look like an ornamental someone planted?

lane
06-27-2009, 09:47 PM
Some kind of Beech tree i think. . I know it is not any of the ones people have named so far.

Yankee1
06-27-2009, 10:02 PM
jihe
It would not hurt the tree. All the wood in the tree trunk is dead except the cambium layer. The only living material in the tree trunk is the cambium
layer. It carries sap between the leaves and the roots.
They actually inject an aqueous solution of copper into Elm trees that are being treated for Dutch Elm Disease to kill the fungi.
Yankee1

J Tiers
06-27-2009, 11:46 PM
The leaf is "almost" like a lot of trees. it is "almost" like most of the ones mentioned so far.

If you want an ID, can you show a single full branch with leaves?

Trees can have simple or compound leaves, opposite or alternate, toothed or not. The picture appears to show a simple leaf, opposite, toothed, with a distinctive vein structure. But unfortunately, there aren't very many of those, and most don't look like that, or are shrubs, which that clearly is not.

A picture of one "stem" with a dozen or so "leaves " on it might help determine what it is.

ulav8r
06-28-2009, 07:20 AM
Not a "piss ell-um".;) Those are also known as "winged elm" because of the cork-like "wings" or ridges along the smaller limbs. Elms do not have shiny leaves either.

DICKEYBIRD
06-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Aww geez, things are never easy around my house. So I went out early this morning with hammer & chisel in hand and gouged out an ever increasing amount of damp, rotting wood. Pi$$ed off a bunch of ants & a couple of beetles too. Man, I wish I had a 2 or 3" rotary rasp of some kind to quickly grind away the soft stuff.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeRot.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeRot2.jpg

Should'a noticed this a few years ago and the fix would've been more successful. The rot appears in some areas to extend down near the healthy trunk line.

I see 2 ways to approach it other than paying somebody to take it down which is almost out of the question due to finances and wifey and I loving the shade it gives us.

A) Get as much of the rot out as possible, let it dry a couple days and pump it full of the expanding urethane foam; trimming the excess off in a domed shape to aid water run-off. That may inhibit further rot enough for the ol' gal to get healthier. (?)

B) Fire up the saw and carve off as much off the protrusion as possible; hopefully getting off all the damaged stuff and leaving a slightly angled area that would promote water run-off. The naked area would be pretty large though and a lot of bark would be gone. Would a fancy tree paint possibly help? Too bad Rustoleum doesn't make anti-rot paint in rustic bark colors.;)

What say you'uns?

Oh yeah, here's a pic of a limb if it helps to ID the tree.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLimb.jpg

DICKEYBIRD
06-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Well, at least I found a new way to use a power tool. I chucked up the brand new Enco 3" wire wheel I bought a while back in my 3/8" drill and attacked the rot. It quickly grinds away the pithy stuff and leaves the harder stuff. I ended up with a very nice bucket on the tree that will hold at least a gallon of water.

The tree tried to heal itself but the bugs & rot worked faster than the tree could heal. The healthy stuff surrounded the rot with a wall thickness of about 1" on the lower half. I don't think anything will seal that up.

Unless anyone has a better idea I'm going to do a modified option B and cut off the lower section, clean out the remaining rot and seal it with the best tree paint I can find. That should be much better than doing nothing at all.

lynnl
06-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Looking through a tree book I have, the closest match I find is a Hawthorn, either Scarlet Haw or Ash Hawthorn. Though neither are a real good match.

The hawthorns have small berry size fruits, that may be red or orange in fall. Does that match up with your tree?

DICKEYBIRD
06-28-2009, 02:02 PM
No, not any berries of any kind Lynn.

Methinks I may have screwed up.:( I sawed off some of the protruding part which left a U-shaped ring of fresh wood with the rotted area in the middle. I ground out the rotted area with the tip of the chainsaw, then smoothed and angled the bottom area to allow water runoff.

It sounded like a good plan but some of the mushy wood goes deeper than I thought. I may have just opened the whole mess up to the atmosphere and wood chomping little critters. I had to leave some stuff that looks OK but is soft and a bit damp. I'm going to wait a few days and paint it with something or slather on some Gorilla Glue and work it in with a stiff brush. That should bond pretty well for a while and slow down the water ingress.

The die is cast; it is what it is!

TexasTurnado
06-28-2009, 02:32 PM
A medium strength solution of water and Dursban 4E will effectively eliminate the crawly things for some time. My trees were infected with carpenter ants and after a good dousing with Dursban and I haven't seen a single one for almost a year now... :) I have no idea if this is a recommended application, but it sure worked for me with no ill effects I can see on the trees.

madman
06-28-2009, 02:56 PM
Mix up some grout nuice and runny with a pile of bone meal and just pour this slurry into the hole. let me know how it continues to grow.

Yankee1
06-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Cabots Tree paint is made specifically for this purpose. It is recommended that anything cut over the size of a half dollar be painted. If you notice there is a round hole in the end of a pole saw. It is there to place a brush in and reach the cuts for painting. If you look at an arborist pruning a tree you will see what appears to be an oil can hanging from his belt. It is a oil can that has a brush driven into the spout from the inside. When he finishes a cut he paints it with Cabots Tree Healing. Do a search on line for it.
Yankee1

Quetico Bob
06-28-2009, 04:51 PM
How about tree paint then a lining of fiberglass cloth, work in a small valve at the bottom and something on a hinge for the lid.

The perfect ice bucket full of cool ones. :D

Cheers, Bob

J Tiers
06-28-2009, 11:40 PM
As far as ID, I have ended up in the Ash trees, or ashleaf Maple. I don't think so, though, the leaf stalks don't seem right.

Does it produce seeds? What do they look like?

The other candidates mostly have thorns, and I don't see any.

As for the hole, it is sounding like a substantial hole, and that's a good-sized tree. The trunk seems to be compromised, and a good wind may snap it one day.

If it can't fall on anything important, you can just as well keep it , but I'd not want that over anything valuable that it would damage if it fell.

The rot looks like it avoids the main trunk, but that was a natural split in the trunk anyway, which is a weak spot to begin with. Then there is no healthy live wood to form a tension element on that side of the trunk. might last years, might come down in a month if you get the right (wrong?) wind.

You're right though, it looks to be a great shade tree.

DICKEYBIRD
06-29-2009, 08:02 AM
No seeds or thorns Jerry.

It's hard to see from the pics but I think close to 100% of the main trunk is OK. If I can seal off the hole, I think it'll be safe for at least a few years.

Madman, your potion sounds interesting. I take it from your post that you have personal experience with it? How much is a pile of bonemeal. 50/50? More, less?

Moxiedad2001
06-30-2009, 08:56 AM
I serve as an expert witness on cases like this, generally where a tree has come down and killed someone and the question is whether the responsible person should have known that the tree was hazardous. As a rough rule of thumb, if a third of the cross-sectional area of the trunk is decayed, then it should come down if there are "targets" (humans or property) in the vicinity of the tree. I have seen so many cases of death or permanent and severe injury from dead or decayed trees near roadways that I tend to notice these things while driving around. There is nothing that you can put in that hole that will replace the strength loss or prevent further decay. I don't work from photos except to give a casual, preliminary opinion, but that damage looks pretty bad to me. Kim Steiner

J Tiers
06-30-2009, 09:10 AM
And he has now been "warned"....... a decent lawyer would dig up all this discussion and make hay.

I hate cutting down a 'good" tree, but I've seen too many "good" trees come down in a storm due to inside rot.... If the tree is within reach of things it can damage, or a reasonable expectation of damage/injury exists from teh tree falling, you may want to take pre-emptive measures.

Most of those had damage that could not be seen from outside.... this one has an obvious problem

It's the normal fate of a tree to rot out and fall eventually, unless something else gets it first (insects, wet ground releasing the roots, etc).

Don't listen to us....... get an arborist to inspect it in person. He'll know the tree type, and can assess the area, the damage, etc. Maybe he'll think it needs to come down.

Maybe he'll say it is OK, in which case get the opinion in writing as a report. That way you "took professional advice".

cpierre
06-30-2009, 11:19 AM
Arborists often fill holes with cement.

The tree will eventually close the wound, and continue to grow. Don't forget there is cement in there when you eventually cut it down!

I know trees very well, and unfortunately this is not a tree we have here in Québec. To properly identify it, please take a picture of a single, complete end of a twig (a small branch), how the leaves attach to this twig, what the terminal bud looks like, the edges and the underside of the leaves against a contrasting background.

From the picture you have posted, it is extremely difficult to properly identify it using botanical reference books.

Pierre
Québec

DICKEYBIRD
06-30-2009, 01:21 PM
Thanks again gentlemen, I very much appreciate your input. The legal advice is much appreciated as well. I tend to forget about the doom & gloom factor.

As Kim said, it's hard to show the affected area clearly enough in pictures to fully assess the situation but it looks and feels like I have removed almost all of the rot without compromising the strength of the trunk. I probed the remaining questionable spot with an icepick and it stops a couple inches deep in one small spot. Most all of the bad area was in the large part that angles away from the main trunk. The main trunk looks and sounds solid when I tap on it.

It'll be very dry here for the next couple months so I'm going to water the tree to keep it healthy and avoid getting water into the wound. I'll watch it closely and see how it reacts over the next few months before deciding whether or not to have it taken down. I'm also going to check around for some professional advice.

Thanks for the offer Pierre, I'll get some pictures like you suggest and post them here later. I'm curious what species it is.

wierdscience
06-30-2009, 10:01 PM
Looks like a European Beech to me,okay that's my guess.Not an Arborist,but have spent a lot of time dealing with trees,seedlings to lumber.A Beech I wouldn't get my hopes up,they aren't very insect or rot resistant.Worse is the damage looks to be into the heart of the main trunk.I will live like it is for quite a while,when you see the tips of the branches dying back it's over.

If you do need to take it down,it isn't so big that a pole saw(electric)couldn't whittle it down to a manageable trunk.

Mike Burdick
06-30-2009, 10:33 PM
... I'll get some pictures like you suggest and post them here later. I'm curious what species it is.

Dickeybird,

I look forward to hearing what species it is too!

J Tiers
06-30-2009, 11:27 PM
I know trees very well, and unfortunately this is not a tree we have here in Québec. To properly identify it, please take a picture of a single, complete end of a twig (a small branch), how the leaves attach to this twig, what the terminal bud looks like, the edges and the underside of the leaves against a contrasting background.

From the picture you have posted, it is extremely difficult to properly identify it using botanical reference books.

Pierre
Québec

That was the intent of my picture request also, I guess I wasn't quite as clear!

Moxiedad2001
07-01-2009, 09:04 AM
Just to clarify, I was offering "expert advice" (at least that's what they hire me for!), not legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. But I think that if you hire an arborist for his opinion and he says to take it down, then you had better do so. If the tree falls and injures someone later, and it is discovered that you had ignored the opinion of a professional that the tree was a hazard (and it probably would be discovered), then you will be in serious legal trouble. I am a university scientist, not an arborist, and most of what I do in this line is to reconstruct the condition of trees at a prior point in time. Haven't lost a case yet, but I do decline work where I think the client does not have a solid argument. Kim

J Tiers
07-01-2009, 09:03 PM
I expect that is understood........

However, since we have mentioned, several people, the chance that the tree MIGHT be unsafe, it seems reasonable that "due diligence" might require an arborist to examine it in person.

DICKEYBIRD
07-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Okay, backing away from the the litigious aspect and moving back to the botanical discussion, here's the pics I took this afternoon. Hopefully this is what Pierre needs to identify the tree.

Man oh man, I'll bet'cha a guy named Pierre has an unfair advantage with the chicks.

All these pics are of the back side of the leaves.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeNewBranches.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeafBack2.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeafBack.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeavesBack.jpg

TGTool
07-01-2009, 11:08 PM
Boy, that leaf looks like Box Elder to me but I don't recall seeing seeing such a large specimen.

J Tiers
07-01-2009, 11:10 PM
Hmph.......

The only common trees of that "construction" are pretty much maples, at least among ones that will attain that size. Opposite leaves, fan-lobed (although the lobing is only visible on some leaves)..........

There are a lot of them, and their leaves don't all look the same, there are some pretty strange ones.

The problem is that you say there are no seeds...... most all maples have seeds that are fairly hard to ignore. A few don't.

Yeah, box elder, aka "Ashleaf maple", Acer negundo.......... but that has compound leaves and the picture does not. Those are simple leaves, with a bud at the base of the stalk.

It's a bit like a sycamore maple also, but again, not quite. The leaves of that are usually more lobed.

Jack F
07-02-2009, 12:14 AM
The leaves look some what like some of the cottonwoods woods we have in the in the north west. They are fast growers and quite often get so heavy with water they fall of their own weight. My neighbor had one had one on county property behind his back fence and one night the whole thing came down, smashed his fence and the kids play set where they play every day. As it turned out all the county had to do was to replace the fence and the play set. If it had come down in the day time it could have been a lot different. Get an arborist (sp) out there and follow his directions.

Jack.

Evan
07-02-2009, 04:41 AM
I would have to say it is in the family Moraceae, genus Ficus. There are several hundred species in the genus. This is a photo comparing your leaf with that of Ficus Rumphii. It's close enough to pin it to the family and genus but not the species. It is some sort of fig though, the branch and bark patterns are also typical, especially the very small branches that appear from main branches as new growth.

http://ixian.ca/pics6/ficus.jpg

You can sift through the images here to see if you can find a better match.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/b/Moraceae/Ficus/none/cultivar/0/

J Tiers
07-02-2009, 09:21 AM
leaf form in isolation is only a small part of identification...... For instance, AFAIK, just about all fig trees are alternate leafed, whereas the branch picture very clearly shows a definite opposite leafed structure.

Then also, the OP definitely stated NO fruit, and no noticeable seeds. Most figs have a unique fruit, hard in most cases to ignore. There may be a non-fruiting variety, but I am unaware of it if so.

They also tend to be tropical, although there are temperate varieties.......

it's an interesting tree, A good shape and dense shade also.

Evan
07-02-2009, 09:25 AM
There are many fig species with no trace of fruit. The most common is Ficus Benjamina also known as Weeping Fig. I am sitting next to one.

[edit] On close examination of mine it shows up to 4 leaves growing from the same bud junction although two is most common as well as alternating. It is a mix of both

Also, the face of the leaf is glossy.

aboard_epsilon
07-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Okay, backing away from the the litigious aspect and moving back to the botanical discussion, here's the pics I took this afternoon. Hopefully this is what Pierre needs to identify the tree.

Man oh man, I'll bet'cha a guy named Pierre has an unfair advantage with the chicks.

All these pics are of the back side of the leaves.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeNewBranches.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeafBack2.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/DBAviation/TreeLeafBack.jpg


poplar ..

Ive got them growing 20 yards from me ...

they have to be cut down too their trunks every couple of years.

they have to be as brutal as this ..they call it pollarding when they do this . :-

http://www.begavalley.nsw.gov.au/Environment/tree_management/images/tree_lopping.jpg

the wood of these trees is very brittle ..they grow very fast .. branches as much as 10 feet a year.........if aloud unchecked huge branches can break off ...

these trees can survive being cut down to the ground and still recover.

they can also be pollarded ...and not appear to recover or sprout for two years ..so don't give up on one of these that looks dead .

all the best...markj

cpierre
07-02-2009, 10:46 AM
I believe it is a Black Maple, Acer nigrum.

It is so rare here in Canada that I have never seen one, but all my tree books point to a Black Maple.

It has the opposite leaves of maples, the bark of a maple tree (we have lots of maple trees here in Québec, my father used to pruduce maple syrup), and its leaves turn yellow in the fall.

The fact it does not have any seeds is not a factor, because I have a mature Red Maple in my yard, and although it has lots of flowers, it does not bear seeds. It may need another one close by to produce seeds, like apple trees need apple trees from a different type to pollinate.

It is not a poplar or ficus, they have alternate leaves.

It is not a box elder, the box elder has a different bark and composite leaves (but they can grow three stories high).

If it cannot be saved, its wood has the same quality as the other maples, it would make nice boards.

Regards,

Pierre
Québec

Evan
07-02-2009, 11:04 AM
It is not a poplar or ficus, they have alternate leaves.


My indoor Ficus Benjamina generally has two leaves from each bud junction. There are about 800 species of Ficus so that leaves a lot of room for variations.

dp
07-02-2009, 11:08 AM
The lace leaf maple in the center of this picture was once flattened to a stump by a tree next to it that fell down in a wind storm. I cut away the broken part and figured I'd wait for the stump to rot and pull it out. The stump left was just 24" or so high.

Like Pollarding, it came back and is now one my best looking deciduous trees (I don't have many). Here it is in this mornings sun: http://thevirtualbarandgrill.com/machinery/laceleaf.jpg

The stump did begin to rot, though, so I cut out the dead wood and filled the cavity with expanding foam. The tree grew around it and now you'd never know it was a foam-core maple. Unlike Pollarding which tends to leave a large knot in the trunk, this tree looks rather natural and is nearly back to it's original height and girth.

The blue spruces to the right and left were seedlings when planted. The local bank was giving them away in plastice "cigar" tubes. They're the same age but had different micro environments to deal with.

Evan
07-02-2009, 12:59 PM
I just finished cutting and pushing down about a logging truck load of trees. I have an entirely new western horizon for astronomy now. I am peeling some of the trees for building material and the rest are firewood. That's around 30 down and only 10,000 to go.

derekm
07-02-2009, 05:52 PM
[QUOTE=dp]The lace leaf maple in the center of this picture was once flattened to a stump by a tree next to it that fell down in a wind storm. I cut away the broken part and figured I'd wait for the stump to rot and pull it out. The stump left was just 24" or so high.

Like Pollarding, it came back and is now one my best looking deciduous trees (I don't have many). ..QUOTE]

its called coppicing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppicing

Pollarding is from about head high upwards below that its coppicing.

Coppicing is used a lot on willow to make wands(for baskets, fencing etc) and firewood.

J Tiers
07-02-2009, 07:50 PM
I agree it pretty much has to be a maple, which one is the issue, since there are lots, they can vary, and there are several different looking leaves even on one twig of that one.

The Ficus benjamina is generally opposite leaved
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ficus_benjamina2.jpg

Poplars likewise, and the box elder is compound.

Probably one would have to get into the leaf scars and "bundle scars" to really get the story. We won't demand microscope pictures!

The generally green buds are a clue, many varieties have red buds instead. (not to be confused with redbuds, a different thing altogether).

dp
07-02-2009, 08:51 PM
Pollarding is from about head high upwards below that its coppicing.

Coppicing is used a lot on willow to make wands(for baskets, fencing etc) and firewood.

Then I still say it's pollarding - I'm very short :)