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Steelmaster
07-01-2009, 09:11 AM
New member here, thought I'd share a new toy!

Had a requirement for drilling quite a few brass rifle cartridges and copper projectiles for making pens. This involved multiple drilling operations leaving me with the choice of changing drill bits up to 3 times or doing all parts with one drill first, involving changing each part in the chuck.

Found a tailstock turret on LMS site and it arrived from the US 2 days ago (shipped last Monday!)


Came in a snazzy timber box

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0667.jpg


Looks promising in the box and seems well made


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0674.jpg


Made up some 5/8" arbors for the various bits I want to use with it, such as centre drills and drill bits.


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0680.jpg


These still need to be finished and drilled to take the tools, but the start is there. Rough finish on the ends is from the horizontal bandsaw, couldn't be bothered parting them off!

In the same shipments I got 2 extra smaller drill chucks, a 1/4" and a 3/8" one, together with 5/8" straight arbors (J1 and J2), I will probably cut these shorter, they seem a bit long


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0684.jpg


Once I have finished the arbors for the centre drills etc I will put up a few more pics and give a users' report.

For less than $A100 including delivery, this will come in handy I think.

torker
07-01-2009, 09:31 AM
You are going to want to strive to keep all your tooling the same length if you can...and as short as possible.
You'll find out why if you have to do a lot of multiples.
On my Weiler turret machine I keep everything I can as even as I can.
You would want that even more as you don't have a lever feed.
Great time savers tho...
I had a tailstock turret on my last SB9. Was pretty handy for sure!
Russ

Steelmaster
07-01-2009, 09:35 AM
You are going to want to strive to keep all your tooling the same length if you can...and as short as possible.
You'll find out why if you have to do a lot of multiples.
On my Weiler turret machine I keep everything I can as even as I can.
You would want that even more as you don't have a lever feed.
Great time savers tho...
I had a tailstock turret on my last SB9. Was pretty handy for sure!
Russ

Thanks Russ, yes I have been told that and that's why the arbors are longer than they really need to be.

The arbors I purchased with the drill chucks are particularly long, hope they can be cut to length as well, don't know how hard they are. Perhaps I should have bought a couple of spares to play with!

torker
07-01-2009, 09:41 AM
SM...they shouldn't be too hard. I have a couple on my Weiler that I shortened...they where pretty easy to cut.
Mine where tapered where I needed to grab them so I pressed them into the chucks then put the chucks in the 3 jaw and parted off the arbors.
Russ

Rif
07-01-2009, 11:24 AM
I've got two of those turrets. One in MS2 and one in MS3. I didn't use drill chucks, however. I used 5/8" 1144 TGP for the tool holders and drilled a hole in the end of each one for each drill bit size. Then, I put a set screw in each tool holder in order to hold the drill bit. I also made sure that the total length of all of the 5/8" tool holders and inserted drill bits were the same. One some drill bits, I had to grind a flat for the set screw to lock the drill bit in place otherwise the drill bit had a tendency to spin. For depth stops, I made brass collars, with a set screw, to put on each drill bit. I also made up a tool holder for a center drill in order to start the holes.

Since I only have 4-jaw chucks, I also made up a collet to hold my bar stock. The collet was simply a round piece of steel with the correct size hole in the center. A set screw was put in the side to lock the bar stock in place.

With a cutoff tool, mounted in the cross slide, the whole setup worked great.

One thing I had to watch, however, was that there was a tendency for the entire turret to rotate in the morse taper socket if I wasn't careful. (i.e. I tried drilling too aggressively.) Make sure the drill bits are sharp and of a high quality.

Regards,

Brian

lynnl
07-01-2009, 12:08 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but I've never seen a turret up close and first hand.

How are the tool holders held in the turret. That one hole visible in the 2nd picture doesn't appear to be tapered, nor does it look like there's sufficient length for morse tapers at any rate. Or is it some other taper?

DICKEYBIRD
07-01-2009, 12:12 PM
I've been eyeing those for a while but was worried about how accurate they are. Has anyone checked their's to see?

With a full complement of razor sharp tooling loaded up, I'd be worried about working around it without a chainmail right arm protector.;)

Scishopguy
07-01-2009, 12:46 PM
I've been eyeing those for a while but was worried about how accurate they are. Has anyone checked their's to see?

With a full complement of razor sharp tooling loaded up, I'd be worried about working around it without a chainmail right arm protector.;)

To address a couple of questions about these fixtures, the arbor holes are only about 1 1/4" deep and are held in with a set screw in the center circle. As to them being a little sharp to be around, you betcha, but, since the index lever is on the back side of the turret, you position the tools to face toward the back of the lathe. This way, you don't catch your hands on the tools when changing the tool positions.

PS: Nothing hurts like snagging your hand on a sharp drill or tool bit. Not only does it hurt and take forever to heal up but you feel stupid until it does. ;)

Alistair Hosie
07-01-2009, 05:03 PM
That's quite a large overhang . How accurate is it in use? Alistair

Steelmaster
07-01-2009, 07:08 PM
To address a couple of questions about these fixtures, the arbor holes are only about 1 1/4" deep and are held in with a set screw in the center circle.


Yours must be different from this one, the holes for the arbors in this one are 1/2" deep.

Yes, the arbors are held in place with a set screw.


That's quite a large overhang . How accurate is it in use? Alistair

On the 2 bought arbors the overhang is rather large that is why I plan to cut them shorter, as I already said.

The arbors I made myself from bar stock I turned to the 5/8" diameter required are a good "pop" fit itne the mounting holes. They "pop" very nicely when you pull them out. Again, they are held inplace with set screws.

Next job is to drill them for the drills/centre drills that I intend to use and cut them to the same overall length.

I was planning to use the arbor as a depth stop as well, rather than use a separate depth stop, but this may not be possible with all the drills I intend to use.

As for the MT2 mandrel spinning in the tailstock, this can of course occur with a single mandrel and drill chuck as well.

Some of the copper projectiles need a 2mm hole for the pen refill and for those smaller holes I intend to mount a pin chuck in the 5/8" arbor rather than rely on a set screw to hold such a small drill in place.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0687.jpg

Steelmaster
07-01-2009, 07:12 PM
That's quite a large overhang . How accurate is it in use? Alistair

Don't know yet how accurate it will be as I haven't used it yet, but when I use my single mandrel and 1/2" drill chuck together with the pin chuck for the 2mm drill (2mm drill has tendency to slip in the 1/2" chuck) the overhang isn't that much shorter.


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0686.jpg

That setup is quite accurate, so here's hoping that the tailstock turret will also be accurate.

Doc Nickel
07-01-2009, 07:15 PM
On your arbors, you'll want to mill a flat (or drill a pocket) for the setscrew to bear against. If they're tight enough they "pop" when you pull them out, the slight deformation from the setscrew digging in will effectively lock them in place.

Doc.

Liger Zero
07-01-2009, 08:22 PM
Cool, I've been pondering the purchase of one of these from LMS. I was given one, started off as "stock cheap turret attachment" but the holes have been filled in with weld and modified to accept these (obviously) custom hex-rod tool-holders. Fellow who gave it to me has a Real Turret Lathe so he doesn't need the toy turret. ;)

Thanks for the ideas on toolholders though!

gr8life
07-02-2009, 08:17 PM
I use my tailstock turret for a job I do from time to time. By adding the handle you see in the pix to replace the allen key you can really speed up the job.
ed
http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq336/gr8lifeLV/TailstockTurret003Small-1.jpg

Steelmaster
07-02-2009, 08:41 PM
Nice setup you have there, particularly like the digital caliper on the tailstock.

Not sure what the handle does? Do you use that to switch from chuck to chuck, if so why don't you use the lever at the rear?

Liger Zero
07-02-2009, 08:44 PM
Lever at the rear is part of the tail stock, the locking mech that holds it down.

The turret is a separate add-on for the lathe. and is manipulated independently of the tail stock motions.

gr8life
07-02-2009, 09:07 PM
There is a small latch release on the under side that lets you go chuck to chuck but you should lock the turret w/ the SHCS that is supplied with the turret, this lines up & locks the whole turret so it stays centered. Just got tired of using a T handle Allen wrench. I do up to 200 of this item at a time a few second here and there saves a lot of time on a long boring job like this.
ed

doctor demo
07-02-2009, 11:13 PM
First of all, Welcome!
Second thing, Two posts by Torker in the same day without pinging Him first:eek: .

Steve

torker
07-02-2009, 11:37 PM
First of all, Welcome!
Second thing, Two posts by Torker in the same day without pinging Him first:eek: .

Steve
Turrits is close to my heart...:D

doctor demo
07-02-2009, 11:49 PM
Turrits is close to my heart...:D
Be careful so You don't get yer shirt caught in the lathe :D .


Glad to hear from Ya Russ!

Steve

Steelmaster
07-02-2009, 11:55 PM
There is a small latch release on the under side that lets you go chuck to chuck but you should lock the turret w/ the SHCS that is supplied with the turret, this lines up & locks the whole turret so it stays centered. Just got tired of using a T handle Allen wrench. I do up to 200 of this item at a time a few second here and there saves a lot of time on a long boring job like this.
ed

OK, I'll bite, SHCS?

I'm not a machinist, just a simple retired chemist, acronyms can be confusing!

As far as I know (AFAIK!) I did not get any tool with the tailstock turret and so far have not locked it down, haven't noticed any problems but have only done small stuff, ie 2 and 3.5mm holes in .308 and .270 copper projectiles, as well as centre drilling.

Will put up some pics of 3 finished tool mandrels so far.

doctor demo
07-03-2009, 12:09 AM
OK, I'll bite, SHCS?

.
Socket head cap screw.

Steve

gr8life
07-03-2009, 12:46 AM
Sorry about that. In the center of the turret there is a socket head cap screw, that screw should be tightened before you use the tool aligned with the work. This keeps the tool centered. I think you could probably get away with not using this screw but have found through making thousands of operations you get better results with the screw tight.
ed

Steelmaster
07-03-2009, 02:49 AM
Thanks Ed, obvious when it is pointed out!

I take you have replaced the socket head with a hex head to be able to use the tool, you show there?

Or does it stay on there and has male thread on the other end?

oldtiffie
07-03-2009, 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by Steelmaster
OK, I'll bite, SHCS?


Socket head cap screw.

Steve

Also known as a hex(agon) head(ed) socket screw (HHSS).

Frank Ford
07-03-2009, 01:56 PM
I understand that some deviant users of MT-2 tailstock turrets are given to mounting them in MT-2 quick change tool holders and using them on the carriage for a bit of extra versatility:

http://www.frets.com/ForumPix/tsturret.jpg

gr8life
07-03-2009, 02:07 PM
Lets get beyond what the screw w/ the hex head is called, I think by now we all know what we are talking about. To answer Steelmaster, I took the screw out and machined a new single piece threaded (M 10 x ? I think) put the 2 nuts & washers back. This is on a Morse 3 tail stock on a bigger machine than my old one so I tend to be a lot more aggressive and need the setup to be quite rigid.
Now that I have seen Frank Ford's setup perhaps I can shave a little time off this job by using his idea (no royalties paid). Really good thinking Mr. Ford.
ed

Al Messer
07-03-2009, 10:33 PM
I have a feeling that you are converting Berdan primed cases to Boxer primers.

Steelmaster
07-03-2009, 11:53 PM
I have a feeling that you are converting Berdan primed cases to Boxer primers.

Don't know what either of those are, so no not doing that.

As I said earlier in the thread I make pens from brass cases and copper projectiles.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/IMG_0423.jpg

I cast the camo part from polyester resin as well.

Al Messer
07-04-2009, 06:33 PM
I never thought of that, but that is a swell looking project! Congratulations!!

John Stevenson
07-04-2009, 07:02 PM
Got two of these, had them for years.
One holds centre drill, tapping drill and tap for M5, other holes, same again but M8

Other head does M4 and M6.

Used to have them M4 and M5 and M6 and M8 but found it easy to get the wrong one, by jumping a size it stops that.

.

Steelmaster
07-09-2009, 06:00 AM
A few more pics.

Have made some tool holders from the 5/8 mandrels that I turned previously.


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0749.jpg

These are now working well and have speeded up drilling operations enormously. That little pin chuck does a great job, next order from CDCO will include a few more.

Have also shortened one of the mandrels for the 2 smaller drill chucks, this is the 1/4" chuck. I reckon it could have been shortened a fair bit more, but was concerned about space either side.


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0752.jpg

The only "modification" I had to make to the turret was to the MT2 madrel. As it came it was just a tad short and hard to eject from the tail stock. About the same length as the mandrel on my live centre but that had a 3/8" roud head bolt in the back.
Put a 3/8" Whitworth bolt in (all I had) and turned it down to the diameter of the rear of the mandrel. It ejects beautifully now, problem solved.


http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0753.jpg

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Tailstock%20Turret/IMG_0754.jpg