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View Full Version : How much for what? You must be kidding...



rockrat
07-03-2009, 11:00 PM
So I grab this mower from the curb the other month and put it with the others for repair. Most of the problems with these finds are bad gas. No one drains the gas for the winter or uses bad gas for the first start of the year and it wont start. So they toss it and leave it and I pull up quick to retrieve it. I spend a little time on them and then off to Craigslist they go. I hope to fund the little ones college education with the extra money.

Ok, it will probably only add up to enough for a book or two when he get there but I'm trying...

I have a craftsman mower that looks brand new and wont start. I replace the key for the blade and clean the carb. All looks good but when I pull the rope it tries to pull back. Ahhhhh, I say to my self (I talk to myself often) not only did this fellow hit something with his new mower and shear the blade key but he also sheared the flywheel key. With the flywheel out of time, it is trying to fire before tdc.

So I pull the flywheel and run down to Sears with the sheared key. And wouldn't you know, they don't have it. They tell me that they would have to special order it and that could take a week. So I come home and look on the net. Sears wants $3.00 for a stinking key. Here is a photo of the thing. It must be made of gold.

http://www.m-and-d.com/MDS/images/items/Stens/445-236C.jpg

More searching shows prices from $0.50 to $13.00 for one key! Its no wonder that nobody wants to try and fix things themselves anymore. I plan to turn the mill on tomorrow and make a key real quick and off to CL it will go.

How did I ever make it without my shop?
rock~

The Doctor
07-03-2009, 11:05 PM
Make that key out of something soft, so it can shear. I've seen a flywheel with a crack starting at the edge of the keyway when a steel key was used and the mower hit something. That could lead to a very unhappy ending.

Ed

Tim Clarke
07-03-2009, 11:40 PM
Doc's right. I fixed a ton of mowers back in high school, Briggs all used a Alum. key. I found if there was even the slightest mark, I needed to replace the key to make it run just right.

TC

wierdscience
07-03-2009, 11:46 PM
I get mine at Wal-mart garden,less than a buck.Some are stressproof and some are zamac many have an offset for you guessed it timing.

Course my 3hp trim mower lost it's cap years ago along with the key.Cordless drill and a 3/4" socket:D

x39
07-04-2009, 12:00 AM
The bearings on the drawer beneath my RCA stove wore out. Basically four "L" shaped nylon (or simular mat'l) pieces with aproximately 1/2" legs. I went to the store where I bought the stove and was quoted a price in excess of $100.00 for the four pieces. I told the guy at the parts counter I reckoned I'd have to make my own at that price, he gave me a look like "Yeah right, buddy." I pity those who are at the mercy of parts suppliers. I wonder how much it would cost to build the whole oven from parts?

tattoomike68
07-04-2009, 12:17 AM
A local carquest shop here sells crome plated oversize key stock super cheap.

Are you griping over $3? man you get no sympathy from me.

dp
07-04-2009, 12:26 AM
My understanding of the newly passed Waxman-Markey bill in congress suggests that many repairs that are already difficult will become illegal. An objective of the bill is to eliminate low-efficiency things and replace them with new energy efficient things.

As an aside, it is very interesting reading at Section 244 of that bill. Lots of micromanagement of electric motors and things they are used in.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090623/hr2454_rulesfiled.pdf

Edit: It's the climate change bill

It's worth a read. Especially if you're in the small machine repair business.

Boucher
07-04-2009, 12:54 AM
Our NAPA store stockes the Al shear key behind the counter. The last I bought were less than $1. I thought they were all the same. I don't understand how such a small dink can keep the engine from running but it does.

macona
07-04-2009, 01:07 AM
I went to a eyeglass shop today to see about some new nose pads for my glasses. They wanted $5... each! Yeah, right...

wierdscience
07-04-2009, 01:10 AM
I went to a eyeglass shop today to see about some new nose pads for my glasses. They wanted $5... each! Yeah, right...

:eek: You can get a whole roll of Duct tape for $5:D

rockrat
07-04-2009, 01:34 AM
A local carquest shop here sells crome plated oversize key stock super cheap.

Are you griping over $3? man you get no sympathy from me.

Yea I am. It will be $3 plus shipping which will take it to $8 before they are done. This is a $0.25 key at best. Companies are so greedy for not just a fair 10% profit margin but a 80%+ profit margin. It makes me sick. Make

Sears is also removing part numbers that have always been good. As of this past few months, they dropped my heater parts list. The number comes back as unknown. I called down to the local ratty garage fix it place (we trade work) and they can still get all of the parts. They tell me Sears is dropping parts so that they can sell new stuff. They dont want to be in the parts supplier busniess. Grrrrrr.

So I'll grab an old piece of aluminum from the scrap pile and I'm golden.

edit-My buddy from the local place that I buy the hard to find mower parts just called me back an hour ago and told me he buys them in bulk and I can get one from him for free. I asked how much they are for normal customers, $0.30. He buys them in bulk at 10 for $1.00 plus shipping. And Sears wants $3.00, thats my gripe.
rock~

oldtiffie
07-04-2009, 01:41 AM
You might be quite surprised at just how much it costs from ordering to entering stuff on a data-base to taking on in inventory then the "rent" for the shelf-space in a store costs. And that is only up until you pick it off the shelf and then more costs to actually sell it to you.

It might be so expensive to keep on inventory that if perhaps your stores didn't stock the item the cost would be moot as they wouldn't have it to sell to you.

Its just a judgment call on your part as to whether the cost of the item is "worth it" or not - ie whether you can afford not to buy it - or not.

Stores are a commercial entity to show a profit or "go under". They are not a school fête "lucky dip" or a local Garage Sale.

I carry boxes of ranges of sizes of keys, cotters (aka "spit pins"), cir-clips, red-fibre and copper washers etc. etc. that are pretty cheap - and not bad quality either. There are several "steel/material/consumables" stores for the "Trade"
here - so keys and bearings are no problem at all.

kendall
07-04-2009, 02:30 AM
Put a 10 year old portable delta table saw an craig's list yesterday for $60. Paid $99.00 for it (regular $139) with a stand, used the crap out of it at work, but like all my tools I took good care of it. The guy that bought it today did so because he had an identical saw and broke something in the fence, They wanted $149 just for the fence. I kept the stand because it was a good solid stand, and was currently holding up a scroll saw.

Witrh repair parts costing that much in proportion to the original parts, it''s a wonder that anything at aall gets repaired theses days.

Ken.

J. Randall
07-04-2009, 04:03 AM
Glad your buddy fixed you up. Looks like a standard Tecumseh key that about everybody used to keep. Used to have a silver or a gold , one of them timed the engine a little different than the other.
James

chief
07-04-2009, 05:34 AM
Rockrat,
It has nothing to do with the "evil" company's desire for greed. It's supply and demand, the key is probably a low volume item which takes up self space that could otherwise be used for a high traffic item.
What you should do is keep O rings kits, keystock, woodruff key assortments,
snap rings etc. on hand. Assortment kits are cheap and you no longer have to worry about the headaches.
BTW, you got the mower for free, stop complaining, you sound a like an obama drone.

PTSideshow
07-04-2009, 06:46 AM
Could be the reason for this site, need a manual they seem to have one for all but the newest stuff but they add them all the time. http://www.managemyhome.com/mmh/owner_manuals
The had the ones of a 15 year old tractor from Sears.
:D

Evan
07-04-2009, 07:59 AM
The less an item is worth the greater the associated fixed costs become in proportion to it's actual value. It costs the same to take and fill an order for a 1 cent part as it does for a $100 part. The cost of tracking stock, counting and replacing is the same for both. It takes the same time to accept, process and deposit payment for both and the same time to restock the shelf.

The selling price of a 1 cent part reflects that. A $100 part may have a 50% markup while to make it at all worthwhile to handle the 1 cent part it may have a calculated floor price that accounts for the fixed costs and ignores the part cost. This often results in what seem to be absurd markups, especially for parts that dont sell in volume.

When I sold computers I made around 15% to 25% on a system. For items that cost me less than about $10 I used 100% markup and for items that cost me less than $1 I often gave them away.

The large merchandisers can't do that so they use very high markups to both recoup the handling cost and make a profit. The small items are real money makers if the volume is high. A six foot USB cable cost me $1.29 but sells for $15 at Staples. How much do you think a $2 package of 10 sheet metal screws is really worth? Maybe 10 cents, tops.

rockrat
07-04-2009, 09:52 AM
You have all made good points and I can agree with what your saying. (except that Obama comment - thanks allot man) I was still shocked to see a $13.00 price tag from an on-line vendor though. Oh well, its the Internet, I didn't expect to win the lottery.

In the end, is the key worth it? Is the wrench equal to the value of the dollar that I will pay for it? I don't know. It just always seems to shock me when I go to Sears any more.

Evan, you have some good points. I may just start sticking to the small mom and pop places more and more.

Rant off, now back to your regularly scheduled lathe work.....

rock~

aboard_epsilon
07-04-2009, 10:16 AM
Ive not got into making and selling things yet ..

but i belong to an innovators club ..
we have guys (experts) come and lecture us on marketing sales promotion etc ..

and they say ...if you sell to a retailer ..the retailer would be expecting to sell the product for double the price he paid you for it...(that is, I'm told,by the experts, is the standard they aim for )

so if you can sell your product for say £100 directly and make 20 percent on it

you could not sell to the retailer without a loss ..cause they would want it for £50...so they could sell it for £100

so you should look at the chain ..before you decide ..that your $3 key is overpriced ..

everyone that's in the chain, has to make a mark-up ..and the mark up is double.............and that's according to the UK expert ..not me .

on those figures ..I evaluate ..on weather it's worth marketing anything i come up with ..weather the consumer would come up with the money for my product ..so far its been "no"

unless i had it/them made in china.

i was astonished to find this out, but this is what the experts keep telling us ..
thats the model..........and its engrained in our uk system ..

all the best.markj

Doozer
07-04-2009, 10:44 AM
Use some valve grinding compound and lap the flywheel and crankshaft tapers so they fit as well as a morse taper on a machine. Forget the key, leave it out. Line up the keyways by eye, and torque down the nut. It will not move. The secret is to lap the tapers for a good fit.

--Doozer

Boucher
07-04-2009, 11:05 AM
My dissatisfaction with Sears is that they use non standard sizes of things like V-belts. You have to pay them $30 and wait a Week for a belt that you could walk into any parts house and buy for > $10.

nheng
07-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Internet prices must target an increasing number of morons on the planet. While repairing a POS GE Profile washer last weekend, I noticed that some key parts can be had for $82 to $275 for the same part ... the same part, not an aftermarket replacement.

DP, Your highlights on the Waxman-Markey (cap in trade) bill make me ill. Everyone needs to contact their Senators and kill this other POS. It will help to kill the remaining manufacturing in this country without even impacting global climate ... especially without other key players getting on board.

Den

Evan
07-04-2009, 01:50 PM
That is one of the most dangerous and poorly conceived pieces of legislation I have ever seen. The potential scope is unlimited and will have a direct negative impact on the trading partners of the US, of which Canada is the largest.

It also contains a long series of blank checks that will be written to whatever amount non elected faceless people wish.

This phrase appears 5 times in the bill:



(d) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS.
There are authorized to be appropriated such sums as are
necessary to carry out this section.


No limitations and no process are specified.

dp
07-04-2009, 02:31 PM
That is one of the most dangerous and poorly conceived pieces of legislation I have ever seen.

And like the stimulus bill, it was passed unread. We have the most irresponsible representation I've ever seen, and worse, they're not responding to need, they're responding to agenda.

wierdscience
07-04-2009, 05:22 PM
That is one of the most dangerous and poorly conceived pieces of legislation I have ever seen. The potential scope is unlimited and will have a direct negative impact on the trading partners of the US, of which Canada is the largest.

It also contains a long series of blank checks that will be written to whatever amount non elected faceless people wish.

This phrase appears 5 times in the bill:



No limitations and no process are specified.

Yup and 1300 pages is too long.We bought 1/4 of the continental land mass of the US with four pieces of parchment-The Louisiana Purchase

Alaska all we got was a bill of sale and these idiots need 1300 pages of legalese so they can cheat and steal while we all pay for it.

Add to that India has already stated that they will no way in hell do the same with China agreeing.

I'm no diplomat,but I'm pretty sure "no way in hell,it's a non-starter" doesn't leave much room for negotiation:rolleyes:

clutch
07-04-2009, 07:35 PM
I tried to search the climate change pdf but my computer puked on it. I'll fire up the laptop later this weekend since it has more power in it.

The sad thing is that DP likely is amongst the select group of people that has actually read it. The remarkable thing is those that passed it likely have not read as much has he has.

Clutch

oldiskool
07-04-2009, 08:11 PM
I actually talked to a guy once that worked in their parts department and he told me that they(Sears) used to do repair work right there in the store on anything that was bought from Sears whether you were the original owner or not and they would repair stuff that was 2o+ years old for the fact they had the lists for the contract builders that built them and their parts suppliers ,well what he told me was the sellers on the floor complained they were not making enough money on commissions because instead of people buying a new item they were fixing their old ones and costing them money,he said eventually the wrong people got to be head of the company and started to agree with the floor people and started to shut down all there repair shops .He said it was a nice place because it was easy work and they had a couple bench lathes to do some machine work(for repair or make a part to their specs) ,and they used to rebuild engines as well and they were constantly busy and got paid a decent wage but when they started to close them down he decided to move on and now they are nothing more than an over glorified order catalog and don't do much in repair work.

clutch
07-04-2009, 08:20 PM
A year or so ago, they closed the Sears parts and repair facility in Traverse City, MI.

That was the major reason I bought Sears tools and appliances.

There are fairly fixed costs in supplying an item. If what you need was free, there is still packaging, handling time, processing time, postage, and in many states personal property taxes for having it in inventory for many years.

If someone will mail you a ten cent part for 10 bucks, count your self lucky.

Clutch

oldtiffie
07-04-2009, 08:29 PM
OK.

So far all the adverse comment seems to be from buyers about sellers.

So - for a bit of "balance" - and a change - I'd ask those buyers who were "hard done by", just how much they would sell it to a buyer for - and why, and also whether would or could afford to stock it in the first place anyway - and why.

"Changing places" can be quite enlightening at times.

doctor demo
07-04-2009, 09:15 PM
OK.

So far all the adverse comment seems to be from buyers about sellers.

So - for a bit of "balance" - and a change - I'd ask those buyers who were "hard done by", just how much they would sell it to a buyer for - and why, and also whether would or could afford to stock it in the first place anyway - and why.

"Changing places" can be quite enlightening at times.
Well if I were Sears and My slogan was ''Satisfaction gaurenteed or your money back'' and I had cashiers standing around geting paid weather they were helping customers or not and I had as much floor space as they do (at least at the stores I've been in) then I think I would stock and sell that key for ''Customer Service ''reasons for under a buck.
Ya reap what ya sew, so to speak and as far as I'm concerned the big box stores and the Wall M***s have run most of the mom&pop hardware stores out and driven prices up and service and quality down. I'm just waiting for it to come full circle.
If stocking some little part to keep customers coming back , then raise the price of Your product line by a few cents each and giving away that little stuff (much like Evan's example ) is good marketing, a happy customer is an asset.

Steve

x39
07-04-2009, 11:46 PM
So - for a bit of "balance" - and a change - I'd ask those buyers who were "hard done by", just how much they would sell it to a buyer for - and why, and also whether would or could afford to stock it in the first place anyway - and why.
While I'm a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism, I'm even more a proponent of ethical behavior. An ethical business recognizes their obligation to the customer, and this includes reasonably priced product support during the projected life expectancy of the item in question. A business that does not offer that support is deserving of whatever skewering the consumer wishes to offer in return.

oldtiffie
07-05-2009, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie
So - for a bit of "balance" - and a change - I'd ask those buyers who were "hard done by", just how much they would sell it to a buyer for - and why, and also whether would or could afford to stock it in the first place anyway - and why.


While I'm a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism, I'm even more a proponent of ethical behavior. An ethical business recognizes their obligation to the customer, and this includes reasonably priced product support during the projected life expectancy of the item in question. A business that does not offer that support is deserving of whatever skewering the consumer wishes to offer in return.

While I'd support that in principal, my guess is that in practice the "customer" has to do a bit to help and protect himself. If he doesn't ask about a warranty or guarantee - and get it is writing - and he buys it then he has in large part at least, shifted the risk to himself. Same applies if he just "takes a chance" as regards fitness for purpose. I don't see that the seller should under-write the short-comings of the "customer". As soon as the customer accepts the offer of the seller he assumes a lot of risk as he is assumed to have made an informed decision.

If the product is faulty or not as advertised or offered then the buyer has rights to use and the seller has a case to resolve or answer (for).

Too many buyers when they make a mistake are all too willing to blame the other party - never themselves.

Legislation is not always the answer either if either or both parties seek to or ignore it or to waive their rights.

Legislation that is not enforceable or enforced is a waste of time and effort.

Too many confuse their "wants" with their "rights" and assume they are the same. Sometimes - but not always - they are.

mconlee
07-05-2009, 12:37 AM
part of the value of buying at sears used to be the fact that you could get the repair parts when you needed them. that apparently isnt true now, so maybe its time to not buy at sears, and let them know thats why!

alot of people communicating just a little bit, can move mountains.

x39
07-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Too many confuse their "wants" with their "rights" and assume they are the same.
I agree completely. Both parties in any fair transaction assume responsibilities, whether legal, moral, or social. Ethical behavior on the part of both parties would preclude most points of contention. The bottom line being the "Golden Rule". :)

oldtiffie
07-05-2009, 01:01 AM
True, but which version of "The Golden Rule"?

The historical or ethical:

"Do unto others as you wish thgat they do unto you".

Or the "hard-nosed" version:
"Them's that's got the gold makes the rules".

gmatov
07-05-2009, 04:52 AM
Chief,

Goddamn, you are never gonna be civil, are you?

"BTW, you got the mower for free, stop complaining, you sound a like an obama drone."

I THINK that makes you an ANTI. You HAVE to plug Reps, you know, them who lost the last election, I think you SHOULD go back to rest and decide what you will do next election cycle.

You really sound like sour grapes when you have lost the election. I know that Rush mandates that you keep pushing BS for as long as Reps are out of office.

Would you like for me to send you a Rush Book? What a lying son of a bitch you worship. Idjits!

George

chief
07-05-2009, 08:23 AM
Why are you angry george, your guy won. You aren't angry about what I said, you are angry because I'm right. Enjoy some jenkem and relax.

Cheeseking
07-05-2009, 04:08 PM
Crazy how even a thread on KEYSTOCK quickly reverts to politics.. Face it, we've all spent more than $3 or $13 worth of our precious free time reading this very entertaining thread.
Turn on a mill and MAKE a key that can be had for $13 with shipping??? Unless you get great pleasure from the making process I would just buy the way darn overpriced key and move on. Guess you need to determine what you have more of: time or money and source keystock accordingly.